Since 1997, you’ve been coming to BarnesandNoble.com to discuss everything from Stephen King to writing to Harry Potter. You’ve made our site more than a place to discover your next book: you’ve made it a community. But like all things internet, BN.com is growing and changing. We've said goodbye to our community message boards—but that doesn’t mean we won’t still be a place for adventurous readers to connect and discover.

Now, you can explore the most exciting new titles (and remember the classics) at the Barnes & Noble Book Blog. Check out conversations with authors like Jeff VanderMeer and Gary Shteyngart at the B&N Review, and browse write-ups of the best in literary fiction. Come to our Facebook page to weigh in on what it means to be a book nerd. Browse digital deals on the NOOK blog, tweet about books with us,or self-publish your latest novella with NOOK Press. And for those of you looking for support for your NOOK, the NOOK Support Forums will still be here.

We will continue to provide you with books that make you turn pages well past midnight, discover new worlds, and reunite with old friends. And we hope that you’ll continue to tell us how you’re doing, what you’re reading, and what books mean to you.

Reply
BN Editor
Bill_T
Posts: 366
Registered: ‎03-20-2007
0 Kudos

Later Chapters Discussion: Epigraph and Title

What does the epigraph at the beginning of the book mean to the narrative? What does the title of the book mean, given what we learn at the end?


Note: This discussion topic is particularly suitable for readers who have read all or nearly all of Cage of Stars. If you haven't finished the novel yet, please be aware that this discussion may contain plot spoilers.

Click on "Reply" to post your thoughts about this discussion topic, or click "New Message" on the main page to start a new topic thread.
Scribe
vivico1
Posts: 3,456
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
0 Kudos

Re: Later Chapters Discussion: Epigraph and Title


Bill_T wrote:
What does the epigraph at the beginning of the book mean to the narrative? What does the title of the book mean, given what we learn at the end?


Note: This discussion topic is particularly suitable for readers who have read all or nearly all of Cage of Stars. If you haven't finished the novel yet, please be aware that this discussion may contain plot spoilers.



Good question,you tell me. This is where I went totally dense lol. Would it help me to find that D.H. Lawrence poem and read those two lines to see what it meant there?
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
BN Editor
Bill_T
Posts: 366
Registered: ‎03-20-2007
0 Kudos

Re: Later Chapters Discussion: Epigraph and Title

It's a good point...here's Lawrence's poem "In a Boat" -- this seems to be the source of the epigraph, although Jackie refers to it as "The Stars Stand Still":

See the stars, love,
In the water much clearer and brighter
Than those above us, and whiter,
Like nenuphars.

Star-shadows shine, love,
How many stars in your bowl?
How many shadows in your soul,
Only mine, love, mine?

When I move the oars, love,
See how the stars are tossed,
Distorted, the brightest lost.
—So that bright one of yours, love.

The poor waters spill
The stars, waters broken, forsaken.
—The heavens are not shaken, you say, love,
Its stars stand still.

There, did you see
That spark fly up at us; even
Stars are not safe in heaven.
—What of yours, then, love, yours?

What then, love, if soon
Your light be tossed over a wave?
Will you count the darkness a grave,
And swoon, love, swoon?

-originally published in Amores, 1916.



vivico1 wrote:

Bill_T wrote:
What does the epigraph at the beginning of the book mean to the narrative? What does the title of the book mean, given what we learn at the end?


Note: This discussion topic is particularly suitable for readers who have read all or nearly all of Cage of Stars. If you haven't finished the novel yet, please be aware that this discussion may contain plot spoilers.



Good question,you tell me. This is where I went totally dense lol. Would it help me to find that D.H. Lawrence poem and read those two lines to see what it meant there?


Author
JackieM01
Posts: 81
Registered: ‎03-28-2007
0 Kudos

Re: Later Chapters Discussion: Epigraph and Title/TITLE

I thought I'd wait for a while, but the title of 'Cage of Stars' is a puzzlement to many. At the beginning of the novel, Ronnie takes Ruthie and Becky to the pond at night while her horse stands in the water to soothe her swollen ankles. One of the little girls describes the Big Dipper as "a cage" and says she can see a little person in it. At the end, the clouds... well, you'll see why there's a "bookend" that creates the title. Basically, I consider Ronnie a prisoner of heaven.
Jackie M.
Scribe
vivico1
Posts: 3,456
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
0 Kudos

Re: Later Chapters Discussion: Epigraph and Title/TITLE ? for jackie

What an interesting phrase Jackie, "prisoner of heaven", hardly two words you find together too often huh. I know some people think religion or even God himself is too restrictive to their life to follow rather than seeing it as the safeguard that makes your life more free than doing it on your own. It's like, living the law of chastity, at any age now. Some see this as too much to ask, especially of a single adult (or teenager), that its too restrictive and not reasonable. But if you think about it, living the law of chastity and teaching the youth that, frees all from the worry of unwanted pregnancies or the actualities of responsibilites for one. It also frees you from any guilt of trying to decide, should I get an abortion, did I do the right thing? It frees you from worries of STDs and dying from a moment of desires that could have been controlled. It frees you from breaking the heart of a spouse that you cheated on or one you lost because of it. IT frees you from so many worries and loses that can come from not controlling your desires and finding yourself possibly imprisoned for life with consequences for an act that could have just been saved for one person, you really love and have in your life as a spouse. So its a bit painful at times and people think you are out of step with everyone else or the times, check the abortion rates, divorce rates, std rates (1 in 4) and death rates for even 10 years ago and see what is the real prison and what is the real freedom. God doesnt want anyone unhappy, he gives us commanments (guidelines) to help us have the best in live, not to limit us but then he leaves the choice to us.

The phrase prisoner of heaven, makes me think of that, of those who feel religion is too strict, tho I do not know if you meant it that way. Anywhooo, aside from that, Jackie, tell us more about the Title and the epigraph please? Did you read this poem before the book and decide you wanted to use it in a book? Or doing this book, did that poem come to you and those two lines of it? What about that poem and those two lines moved you to use it for the title of this book. How did that all come about? Your reminding us here of her sister saying the big dipper looked like a cage of stars with a girl inside, made me wonder, was Ronnie the girl inside the stars of heaven and the broken cage at the end have clouded over, her innocence lost and poured out? Or is it her faith? I think Ronnies faith was definately tested and tho "The poor waters spill, the stars, water broken, forsaken-The heavens are not shaken... Its stars stand still", Ronnie did come to discover, yes God is there, still there,always and her faith tho tested in the end was not broken or forsaken, just tested and found to still be there and so was she. But I am really interesting in why this poem, and those lines for this book. Thanks :smileyhappy:
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
BN Editor
Bill_T
Posts: 366
Registered: ‎03-20-2007
0 Kudos

Re: Later Chapters Discussion: Epigraph and Title/TITLE

[ Edited ]
Jackie, any thought about how/why you chose that poem or those lines? Are you a D.H. Lawrence fan?

Message Edited by Bill_T on 04-16-2007 04:24 PM

Author
JackieM01
Posts: 81
Registered: ‎03-28-2007
0 Kudos

Re: Later Chapters Discussion: Epigraph and Title/TITLE/authors



Bill_T wrote:
Jackie, any thought about how/why you chose that poem or those lines? Are you a D.H. Lawrence fan?

Message Edited by Bill_T on 04-16-200704:24 PM





I'm actually NOT a D.H. Lawrence fan -- I wish that D.H. Lawrence had been Theodore Dreiser LOL -- but I'm a fan of that poem, which I've read many times. The concept of shadows in one's soul, and counting them, is familiar to me. My friends say I'm a Puritan, who examines the state of her soul on a daily basis. And I'm drawn to lyric and 'storytelling' poems more than other forms. Who are YOUR favorite writers, group? There's a good way to close the day on this poignant and lovely discussion. Forster, Betty Smith, McKinlay Kantor, Wallace Stegner, Truman Capote, Denise Mina, Alice Elliott Dark, Jodi Picoult, Jane Hamilton, Anne Morrow Lindbergh, Maxine Hong Kingston, Scott Turow, Flaubert, Melville, Emily Bronte...

Now you.
best,
Jackie Mitchard
BN Editor
Bill_T
Posts: 366
Registered: ‎03-20-2007
0 Kudos

Re: Later Chapters Discussion: Epigraph and Title/TITLE/authors

[ Edited ]
I'll jump to the bait by noting that Jackie has named one of my favorite writers, Maxine Hong Kingston. I wholeheartedly recommend her memoir The Woman Warrior to anyone who wants to see what the possibilities for the form truly are!

(Lawrence gives me fits, too, but I must say he always provokes a reaction!)




JackieM01 wrote:


Bill_T wrote:
Jackie, any thought about how/why you chose that poem or those lines? Are you a D.H. Lawrence fan?

Message Edited by Bill_T on 04-16-200704:24 PM





I'm actually NOT a D.H. Lawrence fan -- I wish that D.H. Lawrence had been Theodore Dreiser LOL -- but I'm a fan of that poem, which I've read many times. The concept of shadows in one's soul, and counting them, is familiar to me. My friends say I'm a Puritan, who examines the state of her soul on a daily basis. And I'm drawn to lyric and 'storytelling' poems more than other forms. Who are YOUR favorite writers, group? There's a good way to close the day on this poignant and lovely discussion. Forster, Betty Smith, McKinlay Kantor, Wallace Stegner, Truman Capote, Denise Mina, Alice Elliott Dark, Jodi Picoult, Jane Hamilton, Anne Morrow Lindbergh, Maxine Hong Kingston, Scott Turow, Flaubert, Melville, Emily Bronte...

Now you.
best,
Jackie Mitchard

Message Edited by Bill_T on 04-19-2007 11:48 AM

Frequent Contributor
lepking
Posts: 45
Registered: ‎03-29-2007
0 Kudos

Re: Later Chapters Discussion: Epigraph and Title/TITLE/authors

Favorite authors - well it goes without saying that JGM is my favorite -- I have read every novel she has written and plan to start my granddaughter on the children's books very soon. I enjoy Richard Paul Evans (feel good books), Anne Tyler makes me laugh. Used to like John Grisham, getting bored - they have all started to sound the same. I like Barbara Delinsky, Jodi Picoult most of the time. Love Emily Bronte. I started to give some "don't likes", but wanted to keep my comments positive for the most part. lepking
lepking
Scribe
vivico1
Posts: 3,456
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
0 Kudos

Re: Later Chapters Discussion: Epigraph and Title/TITLE/authors

I dont really have any favorite authors (except in the sci fi genre and thats Isaac Asimov). I look more for subject matter. Like I said, I dont usually do novels, but this one interested me and maybe a couple of more now. But not romance novels, I like my romance in real life :smileywink:. I like biographies, history (as long as not dry as a texbook), period history books, like the Tudor period of England. I like crime stories, mostly real ones. Many types of science books. I read a lot of spiritual books written by General Authorities in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints, but most of you would not know those authors. Well to give you an example of what i have read in here and when it wsa BNU, I have read Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee, The life and poems of Emily Dickison, Mozart-a life, Manhunt, the 12 day hunt for the killer of Lincoln, Forensic Crime, I did read the Memory Keeper's Daughter and hated the style in which it was written so almost gave up the book till it started to get better in the middle. This book and for next month, The Woods. Its a novel but a murder thriller one so I will try that. Maybe my spiritual books balance out my darker ones LOL. And biographies of all kinds of artists facinate me. Now if this was a movie club instead of a book club, oh yeah, i got favorites LOL!
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
Frequent Contributor
cindersue
Posts: 323
Registered: ‎04-02-2007
0 Kudos

Re: Later Chapters Discussion: Epigraph and Title/TITLE/authors

I read all types of books. When I can, I read. Depending on my mood I may read love stories (white woman captured by Indian, kidnaps her to her tepee, falls in love, etc.) LOL I was reading a few about Blackfoot Indians as I have an interest in Montana. I love history, I enjoyed John Jakes Bicentennial series (dating my self), mystery's, I like everything. I have really enjoyed hearing readers viewpoints and being able to converse with Jackie. And yes, I have added Jackie as one of my favorite authors! :smileyhappy: Thank you for participating and sharing your view points. :smileywink:
Scribe
vivico1
Posts: 3,456
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
0 Kudos

Re: Later Chapters Discussion: Epigraph and Title/TITLE/authors

[ Edited ]
cindersue wrote:
Depending on my mood I may read love stories (white woman captured by Indian, kidnaps her to her tepee, falls in love, etc.)


LOL LOL! are you sure this was a book or a dream hehehe! I just reread this too before i posted it lol, and it was a gay indian at that! lol lol, kidnaps HER, to HER tepee???? OK i got the late night giggles now LOL.

Message Edited by Jessica on 10-26-2007 11:08 AM
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
Frequent Contributor
cindersue
Posts: 323
Registered: ‎04-02-2007
0 Kudos

Re: Later Chapters Discussion: Epigraph and Title/TITLE/authors

[ Edited ]

vivico1 wrote:
cindersue wrote:
Depending on my mood I may read love stories (white woman captured by Indian, kidnaps her to her tepee, falls in love, etc.)



LOL LOL! are you sure this was a book or a dream hehehe! I just reread this too before i posted it lol, and it was a gay indian at that! lol lol, kidnaps HER, to HER tepee???? OK i got the late night giggles now LOL.




Whoops ... Ha ha ha ha ... anything goes in books and dreams. :smileywink:

Message Edited by Jessica on 10-26-2007 11:09 AM
Scribe
vivico1
Posts: 3,456
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
0 Kudos

Re: Later Chapters Discussion: Epigraph and Title/TITLE/authors

[ Edited ]

cindersue wrote:

vivico1 wrote:
cindersue wrote:
Depending on my mood I may read love stories (white woman captured by Indian, kidnaps her to her tepee, falls in love, etc.)



LOL LOL! are you sure this was a book or a dream hehehe! I just reread this too before i posted it lol, and it was a gay indian at that! lol lol, kidnaps HER, to HER tepee???? OK i got the late night giggles now LOL.




Whoops ... Ha ha ha ha ... anything goes in books and dreams. :smileywink:


hehe, just a little teasing,glad you took no offense lol. :smileyhappy:

Message Edited by Jessica on 10-26-2007 11:09 AM
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
Wordsmith
kiakar
Posts: 3,435
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
0 Kudos

Re: Later Chapters Discussion: Epigraph and Title/TITLE/authors



cindersue wrote:
I read all types of books. When I can, I read. Depending on my mood I may read love stories (white woman captured by Indian, kidnaps her to her tepee, falls in love, etc.) LOL I was reading a few about Blackfoot Indians as I have an interest in Montana. I love history, I enjoyed John Jakes Bicentennial series (dating my self), mystery's, I like everything. I have really enjoyed hearing readers viewpoints and being able to converse with Jackie. And yes, I have added Jackie as one of my favorite authors! :smileyhappy: Thank you for participating and sharing your view points. :smileywink:





Oh Yes, Cindersue: Tell Vivico not to laugh,you are not dreaming it! It is real! It was a fabulous read; "The White" by Deborah Larsen" and it was about a 16yrs old that had just gotoff a ship coming to the new world and was attacked by the Shawnee Indians. She witnessed her parents scalped and she was taken to live among the Indians and became a part of them. Great story!
Scribe
vivico1
Posts: 3,456
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
0 Kudos

Re: Later Chapters Discussion: Epigraph and Title/TITLE/authors


kiakar wrote:


cindersue wrote:
I read all types of books. When I can, I read. Depending on my mood I may read love stories (white woman captured by Indian, kidnaps her to her tepee, falls in love, etc.) LOL I was reading a few about Blackfoot Indians as I have an interest in Montana. I love history, I enjoyed John Jakes Bicentennial series (dating my self), mystery's, I like everything. I have really enjoyed hearing readers viewpoints and being able to converse with Jackie. And yes, I have added Jackie as one of my favorite authors! :smileyhappy: Thank you for participating and sharing your view points. :smileywink:





Oh Yes, Cindersue: Tell Vivico not to laugh,you are not dreaming it! It is real! It was a fabulous read; "The White" by Deborah Larsen" and it was about a 16yrs old that had just gotoff a ship coming to the new world and was attacked by the Shawnee Indians. She witnessed her parents scalped and she was taken to live among the Indians and became a part of them. Great story!


LOL Kiakar, it sounded like an old 50s movie that today would be considered racial stereotyping lol, except, I dont think in the 50s, the white girl would have been kidnapped and fallen in love with an indian woman! hehe, very modern book! I didnt see that part in Dances with Wolves :smileywink:. (just funning you guys lol... but i still havent seen that one done LOL!)

oh yeah, FYI,tbe Indians did not start the scalping thing, that was the white man. There were no cases of Indians scalping whites until after they were being herded up onto reservations and whites were scalping them.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
Frequent Contributor
cindersue
Posts: 323
Registered: ‎04-02-2007
0 Kudos

Re: Later Chapters Discussion: Epigraph and Title/TITLE/authors






Oh Yes, Cindersue: Tell Vivico not to laugh,you are not dreaming it! It is real! It was a fabulous read; "The White" by Deborah Larsen" and it was about a 16yrs old that had just gotoff a ship coming to the new world and was attacked by the Shawnee Indians. She witnessed her parents scalped and she was taken to live among the Indians and became a part of them. Great story!



Sounds like my kind of book :smileyhappy:
Wordsmith
kiakar
Posts: 3,435
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
0 Kudos

Re: Later Chapters Discussion: Epigraph and Title/TITLE/authors



vivico1 wrote:

kiakar wrote:


cindersue wrote:
I read all types of books. When I can, I read. Depending on my mood I may read love stories (white woman captured by Indian, kidnaps her to her tepee, falls in love, etc.) LOL I was reading a few about Blackfoot Indians as I have an interest in Montana. I love history, I enjoyed John Jakes Bicentennial series (dating my self), mystery's, I like everything. I have really enjoyed hearing readers viewpoints and being able to converse with Jackie. And yes, I have added Jackie as one of my favorite authors! :smileyhappy: Thank you for participating and sharing your view points. :smileywink:





Oh Yes, Cindersue: Tell Vivico not to laugh,you are not dreaming it! It is real! It was a fabulous read; "The White" by Deborah Larsen" and it was about a 16yrs old that had just gotoff a ship coming to the new world and was attacked by the Shawnee Indians. She witnessed her parents scalped and she was taken to live among the Indians and became a part of them. Great story!


LOL Kiakar, it sounded like an old 50s movie that today would be considered racial stereotyping lol, except, I dont think in the 50s, the white girl would have been kidnapped and fallen in love with an indian woman! hehe, very modern book! I didnt see that part in Dances with Wolves :smileywink:. (just funning you guys lol... but i still havent seen that one done LOL!)

oh yeah, FYI,tbe Indians did not start the scalping thing, that was the white man. There were no cases of Indians scalping whites until after they were being herded up onto reservations and whites were scalping them.





Hey Viv, I know you are funning us! I just had to tell you about the book. Oh! yeah! I forgot about Dancing with the Wolves! ha. And thanks for the info on the Indians scalping, copycating from the white men. I didn't know that either even though, in the back of my mind, it sounds familiar. (Those white fellows did alot of mischief and still do) ha.
Users Online
Currently online: 25 members 276 guests
Please welcome our newest community members: