Later Chapters Discussion: Love Story

[Bill_T]

What do you make of Miko and Ronnie's relationship? Were you surprised to see how it wound up?

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[cindersue]

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Bill_T wrote:
What do you make of Miko and Ronnie's relationship? Were you surprised to see how it wound up?

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I was very surprised. I thought she'd end up marrying a Mormon man because that was expected of her. Ronnie and Miko grew up together as great friends. Crushes turned into love. But before the love, they both knew how much they really enjoyed each others company/friendship. I'm glad Miko didn't give up on Ronnie. I also was surprised they got married in the temple. That must mean Miko converted. I didn't realize someone who wasn't raised Mormon could be married in the tempo. I loved the ending!

[splash]

I was not surprised at the relationship that developed between Ronnie and Miko. They had always been very comfortable with each other. Despite religious differences they were close friends. Once she started to develop a physical attraction towards him I suspected it would end with them together. Friendship that develops into love is very real. In this case,it shows that love can transcend religion, especially when neither is forced to relinquish their spiritual beliefs in order to love each other.

[vivico1]

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splash wrote:
I was not surprised at the relationship that developed between Ronnie and Miko. They had always been very comfortable with each other. Despite religious differences they were close friends. Once she started to develop a physical attraction towards him I suspected it would end with them together. Friendship that develops into love is very real. In this case,it shows that love can transcend religion, especially when neither is forced to relinquish their spiritual beliefs in order to love each other.

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Neither had to reliquish there religious convictions but I think from early on, Miko was finding that his were not so different from Ronnie's and wanted to be a part of it. It was something that was added to what he already felt inside spiritually. So for him to convert to be a Mormon, which he does, he did not relinquish anything, but added to it. The two of them together, with the kind of friendship and love they have had most of their lives, combined with a deep spiritual believe where they are now "equally yoked" too, has got to give them the best chance in life for a marriage truly of the eternities. Now thats romantic to me. I loved the ending, I wanted them to be together but knew that as Ronnie found her own true faith, not having to lean on her parents, that it would have been extremely difficult for her to marry outside the church and I don't think Miko converted JUST to marry her. I think he is stronger than that and someone who would have had to believe it too. How wonderful to marry your childhood friend and first love too. I am so glad in the end, they made it together.

[vivico1]

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cindersue wrote:

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Bill_T wrote:
What do you make of Miko and Ronnie's relationship? Were you surprised to see how it wound up?

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I was very surprised. I thought she'd end up marrying a Mormon man because that was expected of her. Ronnie and Miko grew up together as great friends. Crushes turned into love. But before the love, they both knew how much they really enjoyed each others company/friendship. I'm glad Miko didn't give up on Ronnie. I also was surprised they got married in the temple. That must mean Miko converted. I didn't realize someone who wasn't raised Mormon could be married in the tempo. I loved the ending!

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You're right, that they did marry in the temple means that yes Miko at some point did join the Mormon church. I don't think he converted just to marry her though. Like i said on another post along these lines, I think he was stronger than that with his own beliefs and with himself. But when they were young and he stopped them from going further and talked about her beliefs, I felt right then Miko had a respect for them that was beyond just respecting anothers faith because it affected his behavior too. I was really really happy they were able to be together, how special.I loved the ending, I didnt want to see them with others yet still with feelings, like at the very end of "The Way We Were" lol.

Also, on the thing about converts not being able to get married in the temple, not so. Converts have to wait a year before they can, the temple is so much more than the church, so much more sacred with so much more higher spiritual learning there and covenants made, that one needs to be sure they are ready for such and have to be living worthy to take upon them such covenants. So, to be married in the temple, they were either married for at least one year and then went to the temple to be sealed, or Miko joined the church and a year or so later, he and Ronnie got married in the temple. Heck, many members born in the church will never see the inside of the temple, by their own choice. And also, in a sense, everyone is a convert. It doesnt matter what church you grow up in or call yourself, one day, you will have to decide what you really believe. So even for a mormon born in the church, one day, just like Ronnie in her teens or most teenagers who are active in their spiritual beliefs, there will come a time where, "what mom and dad and the people at the church taught me must be right but I wonder", will come. Then you either just walk away because God's gospel doesnt fit your lifestyle, rather than changing your lifestyle to fit God's word, or you will just sit on the fence, picking and chosing what you will follow like its a menu, or you will start to really ask God to help you know whats right and ask him, is this right? is this true? And when you find it is true from prayers to God on your own and you want more than anything to follow Him, be closer to him, be more like Him, then you are converted. For anyone searching, it can come at many different stages in life, but for those who want to know, they will seek it out.

[JackieM01]

My editor did not like the ending. She thought it was too happy. However, I felt Ronnie deserved some peace after her struggles and I knew that she and Miko belonged together. If you read closely, you will see that they waited the year while he went through instruction and conversion, as his Catholicism as not as important to him as was her being LDS. What I like best about Ronnie and Miko is that she says that she will never be like other people, but that she is loved by a man who knows that.
Jackie M.

[JackieM01]

His becoming LDS was Miko's first REAL religious commitment, and in my experience, LDS who are converts are some of the most devout. Obviously he did it for love of his girl, but there are much worse reasons to do things.
Jackie M.

[cindersue]

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JackieM01 wrote:
... If you read closely, you will see that they waited the year while he went through instruction and conversion, as his Catholicism as not as important to him as was her being LDS.
Jackie M.

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I must have skimmed over that part, because i don't remember reading it. I will have to go back and read it again. The ending was so exciting, I read it quickly!

[kiakar]

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JackieM01 wrote:
His becoming LDS was Miko's first REAL religious commitment, and in my experience, LDS who are converts are some of the most devout. Obviously he did it for love of his girl, but there are much worse reasons to do things.
Jackie M.

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Hey: Bless a happy ending if the story works with a happy ending. And what could be better than two friends being together forever and friends that see each other's beliefs blended together. Sometimes if marriages have two religions there are just too many conflicts. So I was happy that Miko loved her enough to see why she believed the way she did. Alot of couples, one of them would not change even if she or he believed in the other way because of family belief or just plain pride. And to make a marriage work, we are better to be thoroughly blended or as much as possible.

[vivico1]

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cindersue wrote:

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JackieM01 wrote:
... If you read closely, you will see that they waited the year while he went through instruction and conversion, as his Catholicism as not as important to him as was her being LDS.
Jackie M.

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I must have skimmed over that part, because i don't remember reading it. I will have to go back and read it again. The ending was so exciting, I read it quickly!

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I missed that part too, doesnt sound familiar at all, hmm lol.
Ok. I just went back and read the last two chapters again, Jackie, or anyone, where is this major point?? I dont see it? I see her talking about them getting together when their own boyfriend.girlfriend wasnt around to just talk, but feeling more. I read where she goes to school where he does and he hasnt laid a hand on her.
"We were just Ronnie and Miko, pals. Well, not really. But neither of us was giving in to feelings we probably both had and dismissed as impractical for several hundred reasons.
THEN ONE NIGHT, Miko yelled for me to open the dorm window....." he tosses her a ring, says i figured i might as well get it over, they hug and kiss, she runs to tell Clare and then..." Two summers later, after we were married in the temple at home..."! this is on pages 279-281 she asks her mom if she thought she and Miko would ever be together and her mom said she had hoped so. Ronnie says, even tho he was a Catholic then? Nothing about his instruction or conversion. I knew from being married in the temple he had, but for a nonmember, this is kind of implied here but nothing I can find saying he actually took instruction and was converted. So, are you saying,from their waiting two summers and then it talking about the temple marriage, that this is what shows he did it or are you saying there is an actual line or paragraph somewhere saying he did Jackie? Being Mormon, i understood it simply from the implications and cindersue got that too from her saying he must have converted to marry in the temple, which is right. I thought nothing of it till now LOL, so now i am trying to figure out, is that what you mean, its implied but the time period and the temple, cause it sounds like you are saying its written in here that he took the lessons and was converted. Sleepless in Seattle? NO, confused in Oklahoma hehe. Just need some clarification on that one please.

Message Edited by vivico1 on 04-12-200709:18 PM

[Wrighty]

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vivico1 wrote:

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cindersue wrote:

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JackieM01 wrote:
... If you read closely, you will see that they waited the year while he went through instruction and conversion, as his Catholicism as not as important to him as was her being LDS.
Jackie M.

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I must have skimmed over that part, because i don't remember reading it. I will have to go back and read it again. The ending was so exciting, I read it quickly!

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I missed that part too, doesnt sound familiar at all, hmm lol.
Ok. I just went back and read the last two chapters again, Jackie, or anyone, where is this major point?? I dont see it? I see her talking about them getting together when their own boyfriend.girlfriend wasnt around to just talk, but feeling more. I read where she goes to school where he does and he hasnt laid a hand on her.
"We were just Ronnie and Miko, pals. Well, not really. But neither of us was giving in to feelings we probably both had and dismissed as impractical for several hundred reasons.
THEN ONE NIGHT, Miko yelled for me to open the dorm window....." he tosses her a ring, says i figured i might as well get it over, they hug and kiss, she runs to tell Clare and then..." Two summers later, after we were married in the temple at home..."! this is on pages 279-281 she asks her mom if she thought she and Miko would ever be together and her mom said she had hoped so. Ronnie says, even tho he was a Catholic then? Nothing about his instruction or conversion. I knew from being married in the temple he had, but for a nonmember, this is kind of implied here but nothing I can find saying he actually took instruction and was converted. So, are you saying,from their waiting two summers and then it talking about the temple marriage, that this is what shows he did it or are you saying there is an actual line or paragraph somewhere saying he did Jackie? Being Mormon, i understood it simply from the implications and cindersue got that too from her saying he must have converted to marry in the temple, which is right. I thought nothing of it till now LOL, so now i am trying to figure out, is that what you mean, its implied but the time period and the temple, cause it sounds like you are saying its written in here that he took the lessons and was converted. Sleepless in Seattle? NO, confused in Oklahoma hehe. Just need some clarification on that one please.

Message Edited by vivico1 on 04-12-200709:18 PM

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I also went back and looked and I can't find it. I don't remember if it was discussed here or not but I saw a story on TV where the man had also converted and the couple were able to marry in the Temple but his family couldn't attend because they were a different religion. They had another ceremony later that everyone could attend. Is that correct?

[cindersue]

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vivico1 wrote:

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cindersue wrote:

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JackieM01 wrote:
... If you read closely, you will see that they waited the year while he went through instruction and conversion, as his Catholicism as not as important to him as was her being LDS.
Jackie M.

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I must have skimmed over that part, because i don't remember reading it. I will have to go back and read it again. The ending was so exciting, I read it quickly!

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I missed that part too, doesnt sound familiar at all, hmm lol.
O 04-12-200709:18 PM

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Does it have to do with what edition we have? I have May 2006, first edition. The mass market, hardback, softback, Wal-mart, poor paper books have me all confused.

[vivico1]

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cindersue wrote:

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vivico1 wrote:

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cindersue wrote:

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JackieM01 wrote:
... If you read closely, you will see that they waited the year while he went through instruction and conversion, as his Catholicism as not as important to him as was her being LDS.
Jackie M.

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I must have skimmed over that part, because i don't remember reading it. I will have to go back and read it again. The ending was so exciting, I read it quickly!

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I missed that part too, doesnt sound familiar at all, hmm lol.
O 04-12-200709:18 PM

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Does it have to do with what edition we have? I have May 2006, first edition. The mass market, hardback, softback, Wal-mart, poor paper books have me all confused.

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LOL,"The mass market, hardback, softback, Wal-mart, poor paper books have me all confused." Hey they had me wondering what the? for a bit too lol. First I think this is the first edition, i dont think jackie said the trade book would be out till next month, so we may have a collectors item . The other things, I think I got figured out now lol, the mass market books,are the ones that are paperbacks about 7" by 4" and a lot cheaper, and if its a thick one, the spine breaks like crazy, I know i have one of those in another book now. The trade books are the paperbacks that are about the same size as the original larger hardback book, just paperbacks and jackie said it will have a new more ominous cover, cool. I wondered if there we had a different edition too than what she is talking about but we will have to wait and see when she sees these and answers. DONT about the confusion, it was confusing and dont be surprised if someone comes along and corrects me on what i just said they were and further confuses me! lol

[cindersue]

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vivico1 wrote:

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cindersue wrote:

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vivico1 wrote:

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cindersue wrote:

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JackieM01 wrote:
... If you read closely, you will see that they waited the year while he went through instruction and conversion, as his Catholicism as not as important to him as was her being LDS.
Jackie M.

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I must have skimmed over that part, because i don't remember reading it. I will have to go back and read it again. The ending was so exciting, I read it quickly!

---

I missed that part too, doesnt sound familiar at all, hmm lol.
O 04-12-200709:18 PM

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Does it have to do with what edition we have? I have May 2006, first edition. The mass market, hardback, softback, Wal-mart, poor paper books have me all confused.

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LOL,"The mass market, hardback, softback, Wal-mart, poor paper books have me all confused." Hey they had me wondering what DONT about the confusion, it was confusing and dont be surprised if someone comes along and corrects me on what i just said they were and further confuses me! lol

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So should I play it safe and just buy my books at Wal-mart? LOL JK Thanks for the explanation.

[vivico1]

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cindersue wrote:

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JackieM01 wrote:
... If you read closely, you will see that they waited the year while he went through instruction and conversion, as his Catholicism as not as important to him as was her being LDS.
Jackie M.

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I must have skimmed over that part, because i don't remember reading it. I will have to go back and read it again. The ending was so exciting, I read it quickly!

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vivico1 wrote:
I missed that part too, doesnt sound familiar at all, hmm lol.
O 04-12-200709:18 PM

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cindersue wrote:
Does it have to do with what edition we have? I have May 2006, first edition. The mass market, hardback, softback, Wal-mart, poor paper books have me all confused.

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Vivico1 wrote:
LOL,"The mass market, hardback, softback, Wal-mart, poor paper books have me all confused." Hey they had me wondering what the??DONT about the confusion, it was confusing and dont be surprised if someone comes along and corrects me on what i just said they were and further confuses me! lol

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cindersue wrote:
So should I play it safe and just buy my books at Wal-mart? LOL JK Thanks for the explanation.

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vivico1 wrote?lol, no but I might buy the one that comes out after this to see what she really did change, she mentioned a "small" plot change. I hope it doesnt mess this one up, this was good! I usually buy "trade books" the regular size paperbacks, when they are available just cause they are a bit cheaper, but they usually come out later. I love my hardback books tho. And like I said, I put clear shelf paper over the covers of my paperbacks to keep them in good shape for years. Hey, I couldnt pass up this one in hardback for only $5 at half.com, shhhhhhh . I may have to buy her book, deep end of the ocean now. I like her style. And not too thrilled with the sound of the books offered for May that are author lead, but waiting to see if they offer any other books starting in May under some of the other catagories, otherwise I may sit out May and do my own reading, cant tell yet.

[cindersue]

cindersue wrote:
So should I play it safe and just buy my books at Wal-mart? LOL JK Thanks for the explanation.

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vivico1 wrote?I may have to buy her book, deep end of the ocean now. I like her style. And not too thrilled with the sound of the books offered for May that are author lead, but waiting to see if they offer any other books starting in May under some of the other catagories, otherwise I may sit out May and do my own reading, cant tell yet.

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I am interested in reading Deep End also. Hey Jackie ... are you going to have a B&N book review segment on this? I sure hope so.

[Wrighty]

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JackieM01 wrote:
My editor did not like the ending. She thought it was too happy. However, I felt Ronnie deserved some peace after her struggles and I knew that she and Miko belonged together. If you read closely, you will see that they waited the year while he went through instruction and conversion, as his Catholicism as not as important to him as was her being LDS. What I like best about Ronnie and Miko is that she says that she will never be like other people, but that she is loved by a man who knows that.
Jackie M.

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I loved the ending. I was a little surprised, hopeful, but surprised. I wondered if time and distance had made a difference. I also wondered if her obsession over getting revenge had been her only real focus in life. She seemed to neglect everything else to carry out her mission.

I liked that it was happy. It was a nice counter balance to the tragedy. The story needed that. I noticed there were other times in the story where people were so nice it really was noticeable to me. When her Aunt Gerry had chosen their best dresses for the little girls to be buried in, Ronnie knew it was wrong for them. Instead she chose their favorite clothes. Some adults would have insisted on the perfect frilly clothes but her aunt knew that even if they weren't that clean, the colors were faded and the elastic was stretched out Ronnie's choices were the perfect clothes. These were meaningful and Aunt Gerry was wise enough and kind enough to realize that.

So many of the characters were good people too. They didn't just perform kind acts because they felt sorry for Ronnie and her family, they were always kind. Miko's family, the community, Ronnie's family, Mrs. Desmond the landlady, even Scott Early and his wife were good people. I liked the story being written that way.

[splash]

I'm glad you gave Ronnie a happy ending. Critics often dislike "happy ending" stories but reading Ronnie's story you have to hope that she finds happiness after what she's been through. I did get the feeling that Miko's Catholicism was not very important to him. I'm not sure he converted out of a desire to be a LDS. He loved Ronnie, I think, in part because she wasn't like other people and that difference was rooted in her religion. He knew converting was his only way to be with her and being with her was what he wanted.

[vivico1]

He may have joined the church out of love for Ronnie and it being "the only way" to be with her, but considering that a convert can not attend the temple or have a temple marriage for at least one full year, giving them time to really come to know the gospel and see if they really believe and can live its precepts, time to be "converted", I would hope that is what happened in this year's time of waiting for that, that his heart was converted to this gospel for himself too. Joining the church and being converted are not necessarily the same thing. Its a fact that most people who join the church "just to marry the one they love", soon fall into inactivity and the relationship suffers then too. Becoming a member and being converted is not something one should do lightly or for wordly matters or even "just" for someone else. But I understand this is also true of most religions,if someone, usually the man, joins a religion just to be able to marry the woman, then it seldom is without deep spiritual problems if the one who was devote remains so and had to be active only on her own, has to raise the children religiously all on her own, because the spouse isnt converted or interested and therefore does not even attend church, much less as a family. How hard it is then to set the example for the children that both parents dont live. So for me, its far more romantic to think, that even if Miko started the process out of love for Ronnie,(and yes its a romantic idea to think someone would go so far as to change their religion for you) that he found himself also in love with the gospel because in my head then, i can see them really living happily "ever after " raising their children together in faith, being sealed in the temple as a family and on and on. This book has a happy ending and I am really glad it did, for Ronnie and for Miko too, so in this sense,this makes that complete

[JackieM01]

I felt it was implied by their waiting a year and then his parents coming to see her parents that Miko was going through a conversion, rather than remaining a Catholic who would be sealed to his Mormon wife in the Temple. EEEEK!