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cindersue
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Registered: ‎04-02-2007
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Re: Mid book: Ronnie's parent meet Scott

I don't think it would work for me. I'd like to think I could forgive Scott, but don't think I could. I understood the way Ronnie feels as she expressed her feelings to her parents. Her parents weren't really there anyway to help guide her thru her pain. They were dealing with their own. Ronnie may have been going thru the motions by going to church, but she wasn't really in the forgiving mode. She couldn't express her feelings. It amazes me that some people can pray and afterwards feel they have received positive guidance to steer them on a certain path, just from praying. I hope someday I can feel this from praying too. But at the present time I don't. I marvel at those that can. I felt Ronnie lash out at her parents, even tho she is a Mormon. It's interesting to see her turmoil as she wants to believe in the Mormon ways, but can't forgive Scott and his family. Guess she's a typical teenager after all. :smileywink:
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vivico1
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Re: Mid book: Ronnie's parent meet Scott


Wrighty wrote:

vivico1 wrote:
lepking wrote:
....But for Ronnie, coming face to face with Scott under those circumstances would not have been the answer to her pain. Jackie had that one right on target.
lepking
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't know if i agree or not. She was having so much trouble dealing with her pain alone and anger, that it is possible that going with her parents (all of them doing this together) might have helped some. If nothing else, maybe she would have gotten to yell at him the way she may have needed to. I don't necessarily think Jackie didn't have her go because she didnt think it would help her but maybe rather she was just showing what THIS teenager felt she didn't want to try. I don't think Jackie was making a statement on whether it would be the right thing for Ronnie or not. Maybe Jackie will read this and tell us her thoughts on it. Best I recall, even Ronnie was afraid she just might forgive him some and she didnt want to feel that. At this point she wants to hold on to her anger, its her coping mechanism. Also, strictly from a literary sense, if Ronnie did go and did forgive him like her parents did...well end of story, end of a then very short book lol and there goes the plot!

Vivian




I tend to agree with you Viv, although Lepking and Kiakar have some excellent points. I think Ronnie wants very much to hold onto her anger. It's how she copes and it gives her purpose. She doesn't want to face Scott or to feel better and possibly forgive. It may be an insult to her sisters'memory. But she very much needs help and guidance. If she went with her parents she may have found some relief fron the anger that is festering inside of her. I can't picture it having the same effect on her that it did on her parents because she lacks the emotional maturity that they have but she would have faced her demons, literally. With no contact or information, as time goes by her thoughts of him can easily be distorted. She may picture him as happy, healthy, successful, having no remorse, everything she doesn't want him to be. Her anger could fuel her imagination into more and more fantasies. If she saw the man and the reality, whatever that may be, she would have a new frame of reference for him. It wouldn't be her imagination any more. Does that make any sense to anyone? Sorry it sounds so confusing.




Makes perfect sense to me Wrighty, the one time I saw my offender after the first 10 years, I was 23 and still have him in my head as that big looming man over my 13 year old little body. But when i saw him, man, he was older too! And now he was human, not humane by any means but human, not that monster that i had remembered. Now i was as tall as he was and he didnt seem as big anymore or as frightening and I took such new control away from that one time. Think of your 10 year reunion, those of you who have gone to one. Didnt you remember teenagers and were really looking forward to seeing them?? And boom! There stood these adults! Some with grey hair even! Where did the teenage friends you were going to cut up wtih again go? I remember one guy there was so upset by how much older people seemed to be he said, there is no way on this earth i am coming to the 25 year reunion, cause if they are all this much older looking than i expected, i dont want to see that, or what must I look like, I am getting OLD!! ROFL Its an interesting phenomanon.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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vivico1
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Re: Mid book: Ronnie's parent meet Scott


cindersue wrote:
I don't think it would work for me. I'd like to think I could forgive Scott, but don't think I could. I understood the way Ronnie feels as she expressed her feelings to her parents. Her parents weren't really there anyway to help guide her thru her pain. They were dealing with their own. Ronnie may have been going thru the motions by going to church, but she wasn't really in the forgiving mode. She couldn't express her feelings. It amazes me that some people can pray and afterwards feel they have received positive guidance to steer them on a certain path, just from praying. I hope someday I can feel this from praying too. But at the present time I don't. I marvel at those that can. I felt Ronnie lash out at her parents, even tho she is a Mormon. It's interesting to see her turmoil as she wants to believe in the Mormon ways, but can't forgive Scott and his family. Guess she's a typical teenager after all. :smileywink:


Oh believe me, being mormon doesnt keep you from being a typical teenager in many ways LOL. She is like any teenager at this point, going through the motions because you are right, her parents arent there for her emotionally. This would try anyone's faith, much less a teenager. I heard a quote one time, an old one, about the prayer aspect. A woman told her minister, I can't pray, I don't want to pray, I am angry and the prayers dont come. Her minister very calmly told her....then pray till they do. lol, thats really how prayer works, its really not such an amazing thing at all to get answers or comfort from prayers. Its Gods way of talking to us. We dont have to be anyone or anything special or have some divine nature to talk to him, feel him. He's a father, the perfect one, and he always always listens. Thing is, sometimes we don't. And that part takes practice, just the practice of praying every day, you will begin to feel the whisperings of the Spirit to you. Sometimes things we are told in our minds to do, we do, then later say, man something told me I needed to do that, I just knew it! Well, thats how God talks to you sometimes, its not some grand voice saying this is God and heres what you need to do. He tells you through the Holy Spirit very often through feelings of something we need to do, someone we need to check on, those weird little vibes that when they turn out to be true, we assign them to something extra sensory in us. But when you pray every day, even when you dont know what to say, just check in, you will begin to feel things, and KNOW they are the spirit talking to you. Its like anything else we do and become good at, we just have to keep doing it, even when we dont see any response to it right away or recognised when our prayers were answered because they may have been answered in a little different way than we expected. I absolutely know you can feel it and know it. Being mormon wont keep you from inner turmoil, but following what you believe will help you know what to do with those things, maybe not all at once, maybe not right away, but they will. Ronnie knew this enough to know she didnt want to go see Scott and take the chance that the spirit would move her to feel some forgiveness or something for him, cause she had one thing on her mind and she could not risk her plans being thwarted. In a lesser way, its like, sometimes i feel sad, got the blues and i know if i do something fun or anything really to get my mind off of it, it will go away, but there are times when I dont want to NOT feel the blues! lol. I will tell people to leave me alone and then to make it worse, listen to a ton of blues music too! lol. we have to want to have things happen. There is another phrase that that when I first heard it, I really understood why I didnt feel a personal connection with God and how i needed to get one. I read once...Do you believe in God? yes. OK,do you BELIEVE GOD? I thought about that. If i believe IN God and all that he is, then i also have to BELIEVE what he says, and he says, ANYONE who seeks shall find, anyone who knocks, it shall be opened, let he who lacks knowledge ask of me with faith and it shall be made known to him. It didnt say , but this only works for some people. He said ANYONE, ALL of us. We have to believe in God, then BElieve God, then have enough faith to just keep praying, every single day. It really becomes a cathartic , comforting things to do after awhile too, even if you dont feel an answer, or even if the answer is no. Thing is, you really start to know he is there and with you. Ever seen that picture of Christ knocking at the door? The one that goes with one of those verses? Take a good look at it, there may be many but this is the most well known one, where he is standing there with a red robe on. You will notice something,there is NO doorknob on the outside. The artist was asked about this at one point I read, that he forgot the doorknob. He said, no i didnt,The Lord knocks, but he cant force his way into your life or heart, you have to invite him in and open up from the inside! I know this is there for you if you really really want it, thats all you need. And I hope that as you do, that one day you will feel that from praying too. Its nothing to marvel at those who can. Its just a marvel-ous thing that we all can do, just want it, and go for it! :smileyhappy:

This has happened before and is weird, this post and a couple of others, were written days ago but are just showing as new ones to me today. hmmm
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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vivico1
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Re: Mid book: Ronnie's parent meet Scott/Purpose


JackieM01 wrote:
Unlike some, I do believe there is random violence in the world, without purpose. I believe that while the effects of pain may cause us to become more compassionate and decent, that is not WHY such things happen. I don't believe we know why things happen -- unless there is truly an afterlife (and I don't know where I stand on that) and we get to give a quiz. BUT, my brother always says, things do happen for a reason, but not necessarily a good reason...
Jackie M.


Oh I believe in random violence, so much is. And there is no purpose in the violence itself. It exist because hatred and evil exist. I think tho, what we take from the act, what we carry with us throughout life from it CAN have a definate purpose for us. I do not believe in coincidence. Hey Jackie, Got a question for you, some of the posts you wrote on this thread made me remember to ask, could you put one line or a persons name about what you are responding to, if you dont want to quote the post please? I ask because I am reading some of your posts here and I do know who you are replying to, to see what their remark was. Its probably just me but it would help me so mucy.The message subject change doesnt let me know who or what you are responding to and I feel I am really missing a lot. I am glad I came back to this thread, I havent seen half of these posts but they were not marked as new, weird. I sure didnt see yours here . Thanks so much for your input with us, I just dont get what they were about sometimes without that name or post to connect too lol. :smileywink:
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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Wrighty
Posts: 1,762
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: Mid book: Ronnie's parent meet Scott/Purpose


vivico1 wrote:

JackieM01 wrote:
Unlike some, I do believe there is random violence in the world, without purpose. I believe that while the effects of pain may cause us to become more compassionate and decent, that is not WHY such things happen. I don't believe we know why things happen -- unless there is truly an afterlife (and I don't know where I stand on that) and we get to give a quiz. BUT, my brother always says, things do happen for a reason, but not necessarily a good reason...
Jackie M.


Oh I believe in random violence, so much is. And there is no purpose in the violence itself. It exist because hatred and evil exist. I think tho, what we take from the act, what we carry with us throughout life from it CAN have a definate purpose for us. I do not believe in coincidence. Hey Jackie, Got a question for you, some of the posts you wrote on this thread made me remember to ask, could you put one line or a persons name about what you are responding to, if you dont want to quote the post please? I ask because I am reading some of your posts here and I do know who you are replying to, to see what their remark was. Its probably just me but it would help me so mucy.The message subject change doesnt let me know who or what you are responding to and I feel I am really missing a lot. I am glad I came back to this thread, I havent seen half of these posts but they were not marked as new, weird. I sure didnt see yours here . Thanks so much for your input with us, I just dont get what they were about sometimes without that name or post to connect too lol. :smileywink:




It's a little hard for me too sometimes Viv. I also don't want to miss a thing here. I've really been looking forward to this discussion because I enjoyed the book so much. Thanks for your comments Jackie and I appreciate you allowing us to pick your brain. :smileytongue:
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cindersue
Posts: 323
Registered: ‎04-02-2007
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Re: Mid book: Ronnie's parent meet Scott ... spoiler


vivico1 wrote:
... Ever seen that picture of Christ knocking at the door? The one that goes with one of those verses? Take a good look at it, there may be many but this is the most well known one, where he is standing there with a red robe on. You will notice something,there is NO doorknob on the outside. The artist was asked about this at one point I read, that he forgot the doorknob. He said, no i didn't,The Lord knocks, but he cant force his way into your life or heart, you have to invite him in and open up from the inside! I know this is there for you if you really really want it, thats all you need. And I hope that as you do, that one day you will feel that from praying too. Its nothing to marvel at those who can. Its just a marvel-ous thing that we all can do, just want it, and go for it! :smileyhappy:



No, I have never seen this picture. I will have to look for it. I do pray, and I do feel spiritual guides are around me at times, but I haven't felt the power of prayer that you speak of. Perhaps some day I will experience that too. I believe Ronnie's strong religious upbringing helped her to eventually come to terms with Scott.
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