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vivico1
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Middle book:Losing your childhood too soon

What do you guys think about Ronnie's first couple of years after the deaths. Do you think she grew up too fast and in what ways? She had a lot to hold together then, when her parents were in their own grief. I find that in many ways, she became the parent. Not so much in helping with the emotional issues, none of them were, but in taking care of the home, her little brother, her mother who stayed in bed so much. There wasn't much time to just be a kid and it seemed hard for her to be when she has a chance. Do you think she had feelings of guilt if she found herself starting to have a good time with her friends and so then she would back away from them some? I think she, like so many who have gone through such a tragedy very young, or victims of child abuse or sexual abuse, grow up too soon. Some of it is because they get to a point that they feel like they are the only ones they can depend on. Other times its like they feel they dont have the right to just be a kid anymore, to just be as silly as one can get when, like for Ronnie, her sisters are dead. I think Ronnie's best girl friend and also Miko, were life savers for her during that time and such a volital changing age too, to have to go through such.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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lepking
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Re: Middle book:Losing your childhood too soon

Just the visual of Becky and Ruthie must have been debilitating for Ronnie. When my step-daughter, Debbie, was murdered, her mother sent Debbie's brother (my step-son) to her house to check on her. Greg found Debbie and it changed his life forever - he could not function for several years. He would go to the cemetary and just sit at her grave. The important thing for Ronnie was that she was always busy, taking care of the house, taking care of the baby - that was crucial to her survival. The more you stay busy, the better. Friends to teens are so important. I think as adults we forget just how much friends matter during adolescence. lepking
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Re: Middle book:Losing your childhood too soon



vivico1 wrote:
What do you guys think about Ronnie's first couple of years after the deaths. Do you think she grew up too fast and in what ways? She had a lot to hold together then, when her parents were in their own grief. I find that in many ways, she became the parent. Not so much in helping with the emotional issues, none of them were, but in taking care of the home, her little brother, her mother who stayed in bed so much. There wasn't much time to just be a kid and it seemed hard for her to be when she has a chance. Do you think she had feelings of guilt if she found herself starting to have a good time with her friends and so then she would back away from them some? I think she, like so many who have gone through such a tragedy very young, or victims of child abuse or sexual abuse, grow up too soon. Some of it is because they get to a point that they feel like they are the only ones they can depend on. Other times its like they feel they dont have the right to just be a kid anymore, to just be as silly as one can get when, like for Ronnie, her sisters are dead. I think Ronnie's best girl friend and also Miko, were life savers for her during that time and such a volital changing age too, to have to go through such.




I have said this somewhere before, but everything changed for Ronnie the day she witnessed her siblings murdered. Nothing ever would be the same again. She would never think the same again about anything. It changes the very core of your being a human being. Murder is not a natural way to die, natural death is hard enought for children or teenagers but murder, that is a harsh reality that this world is not right!

It so changed my sisters and my life when our father was murdered when we were eight and ten. We never looked at childhood again innocently as we did before this happened. There was never trust in other people's actions surrounding us and a true sense of dread in what would happen to us next. Your innocence has been robbed from your childhood. Reality is controlling your every waking moment.
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Re: Middle book:Losing your childhood too soon

kaikar,
Remember on another thread when you said dying isnt a punishment of God, going to God is no punishment and something about altho He could stop these things, it wasnt meant to be and that sometimes its to teach someone something, be it a skill or something else? Once in a class I gave, the topic was child sexual abuse and the stats on it, suddenly everyone in that class knew someone who had been sexually abused as a child and there was such a range of emotions. As we talked about it, the idea of why would a loving God let evil things happen came up. We discussed God's plan for us here and that that included man's free agency to chose what he does in this life. That if God stopped all bad things, it would be taking away man's agency, his ability to learn more Christlike qualities and it would go against God's very plan. One woman rose up and said, are you saying that it was my niece's CHOICE to be raped by that man???!! I thought for a moment and said, no, your niece had no choice. Unfortunately sometimes good people walk right into the middle of someone else's horrific choices. She is totally innocent. She was his innocent opportunity. God cried as you did to see her hurt, she is His daughter too, but he could not thwart even his own design or what He gave the life of his very own begotten son for by stopping evil things from happening. She told me later that it helped to hear that, I hope it did. Anyway, you and your sister and mother and also you lepking, have had to live with such pain for such a long time, I was wondering if i could ask of you or lepking what I hope you will take no offense in, but I would so like to know and am not trying to be insensitive in anyway, so you can answer or not, or tell me its none of my business ok? It is horrible to hear how sadly this has affected you all for so very long, but did you ever find that something in it to learn, like you mentioned too? Something that was a good thing. I don't mean to say there is any good in a murder ok? But I hope you understand what I am asking. I feel your pain in your words, did you ever find anything from your experiences that has given you some light? Or something that helped you, or even enabled you to help others? I am hoping so, while I am wonder what. I hope this all came out right.
_____________________________________________________________________________
kiakar wrote:
Murder is not a natural way to die, natural death is hard enought for children or teenagers but murder, that is a harsh reality that this world is not right!

It so changed my sisters and my life when our father was murdered when we were eight and ten. We never looked at childhood again innocently as we did before this happened. There was never trust in other people's actions surrounding us and a true sense of dread in what would happen to us next. Your innocence has been robbed from your childhood. Reality is controlling your every waking moment.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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kiakar
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Re: Middle book:Losing your childhood too soon



vivico1 wrote:
kaikar,
Remember on another thread when you said dying isnt a punishment of God, going to God is no punishment and something about altho He could stop these things, it wasnt meant to be and that sometimes its to teach someone something, be it a skill or something else? Once in a class I gave, the topic was child sexual abuse and the stats on it, suddenly everyone in that class knew someone who had been sexually abused as a child and there was such a range of emotions. As we talked about it, the idea of why would a loving God let evil things happen came up. We discussed God's plan for us here and that that included man's free agency to chose what he does in this life. That if God stopped all bad things, it would be taking away man's agency, his ability to learn more Christlike qualities and it would go against God's very plan. One woman rose up and said, are you saying that it was my niece's CHOICE to be raped by that man???!! I thought for a moment and said, no, your niece had no choice. Unfortunately sometimes good people walk right into the middle of someone else's horrific choices. She is totally innocent. She was his innocent opportunity. God cried as you did to see her hurt, she is His daughter too, but he could not thwart even his own design or what He gave the life of his very own begotten son for by stopping evil things from happening. She told me later that it helped to hear that, I hope it did. Anyway, you and your sister and mother and also you lepking, have had to live with such pain for such a long time, I was wondering if i could ask of you or lepking what I hope you will take no offense in, but I would so like to know and am not trying to be insensitive in anyway, so you can answer or not, or tell me its none of my business ok? It is horrible to hear how sadly this has affected you all for so very long, but did you ever find that something in it to learn, like you mentioned too? Something that was a good thing. I don't mean to say there is any good in a murder ok? But I hope you understand what I am asking. I feel your pain in your words, did you ever find anything from your experiences that has given you some light? Or something that helped you, or even enabled you to help others? I am hoping so, while I am wonder what. I hope this all came out right.
_____________________________________________________________________________
kiakar wrote:
Murder is not a natural way to die, natural death is hard enought for children or teenagers but murder, that is a harsh reality that this world is not right!

It so changed my sisters and my life when our father was murdered when we were eight and ten. We never looked at childhood again innocently as we did before this happened. There was never trust in other people's actions surrounding us and a true sense of dread in what would happen to us next. Your innocence has been robbed from your childhood. Reality is controlling your every waking moment.





Vivco: About your question; I have asked myself that since now I am 63 and its been a few years since this has happened. Any Adversity makes you stronger I believe. I have never felt like a strong person even though I have handled alot of serious problems in my day. As a young person I did office clercial work but later in life felt the desire to learn to work with the mentally and phycially handicap individuals. I worked for twenty eight years in this field and really felt fulfilled. I have endured two bad marriages but have four beautiful wonderful children that have college educations and have done well. And the Grandchildren that I adore, seven of them. So I am grateful for the good in my life and give God the credit. And I do feel blessed in many ways.
I thank God for my life, looking at others, mine is some worse than others and some better than others. So doesnt it all equal out. God didn't promise us a pie life or easy one, he promised us life after the life here on earth. I hope I wrote this so you understand. If not, maybe I can try again. I have no qualms about sharing my story or my feelings on it.
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lepking
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Re: Middle book:Losing your childhood too soon/death/possible spoiler

Yes, Lisa died a terrible death. She died of blunt force trama to the head. However, she made some really bad choices to let someone back into her life that caused her much pain. I know that had she lived, she would have continued to dwell in a living hell with him. I am grateful she is not hurting anymore - physically or emotionally. Because of what happened to her, my life and the lives of my children has changed dramatically. I have become an advocate for dating/domestic violence awareness and probably have spoken to 6000 plus students and adults about the dangers of unhealthy relationships and how to recognize behaviors in partners that are potentially abusive. I feel certain that this was the reason Lisa died, so that I could have the courage and conviction to speak out to many others who might put themselves in harms way. I still miss her very much, but I feel that her life and death had a purpose and for this I am grateful. As in all things. Another example - if I had not had a terrible first marriage, I would not have met and married the wonderful husband I have now, nor had the opportunity to adopt two wonderful children who bless my life everyday. Likewise, Ronnie enjoyed the good only because she endured the difficult.
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Re: Middle book:Losing your childhood,for lepking and kaikar

Thank you both for sharing with me some of your life and feelings since your tragedies. I agree with you that their lives had purpose and as for death, I know God knows the exact number of days we are going to be here and maybe those who die too soon to us, were here only as long as they needed to be. If this is a time of learning, surely since we are individuals we learn at different rates or have different things to learn. Nothing is ever wasted, unless we waste it, but life never is. Kaikar, you have searched for a long time you say but you also mention many good things. In one thread you said how you and your sister couldnt trust people in the same way again but still, in your heart you learned to trust or the little girl who knows a man killed her father for no reason, would not have been able to trust a man again enough to marry! There was something wrong with that man who killed your father and you may never know what, but you chose to work with physically AND mentally handicapped people. And I applaud anyone who does for whatever reason because too many people in the world dont even want to know about handicaps of any kind. You raised good kids it sounds like and are a grandma. Motherhood is a bigger accomplishment than people give it credit. I never could have kids, I had cancer in my early 30s and that took care of that. Your life could have been one big negative after that horrible day, but it is not. You are a strong woman. When you feel doubt about things tho, its ok to be weak too at times ya know? God didn't mean for anyone to carry everything alone and does not expect you to.
Lepking,
The work you do is important and can save lives and yes, it may very well be why Lisa died. Who better to be an advocate than a mother who has gone through this? I can understand how you still miss her so. I do believe this, not out of just hope or a way to feel better about things, but out of the knowledge our Father in Heaven gives us when we search, ponder and pray....we will have a chance to see our loved ones again. He did not set up this world and have one of the major things ALL civilizations have, FAMILIES, just as an experiment that after we die those ties are gone and if we are good then we can just be little angels floating around who once had a family, NO. Family is the biggest reason we are here and why would he have us learn something that later, after this life, would be totally irrelevant? God makes too much sense to do that. We will see them again, we are meant to always be a family group with those we were here, if we do live a life that will bring us into his grace. If you look at the eternalness of things, what we are really mourning, is not the loss of a loved one, cause we dont have to lose them unless we chose to, but we mourn the loss of TIME with them. Time here seems like forever, but its only time. And in time we will see them again, where the sad, bad and hurtful things of this world dont exist anymore. I know that in your advocacy work, you do it with love and out of love, not out of revenge or negative feelings, so your right, there is purpose in her death to you and for others. And now, as you say, you have family again, a loving husband and children and to both of you I say, see, here we are back at family again. And your right Ronnie enjoyed the good only because she endured the difficult. We are all the same, we can never know the good without enduring the hard things, it helps us know what really is important in our lives and then in turn, in the lives of others. I am glad you are both here to talk to about this book and your particular outlooks on it.

It is morning, not really early at all but I did not sleep well so I know that I must be rambling on now LOL. I hope what I said made sense and didnt sound like a hung over speech of some kind. Cause its not, its what I fully believe. :smileywink:
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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kiakar
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Re: Middle book:Losing your childhood,for lepking and kaikar



vivico1 wrote:
Thank you both for sharing with me some of your life and feelings since your tragedies. I agree with you that their lives had purpose and as for death, I know God knows the exact number of days we are going to be here and maybe those who die too soon to us, were here only as long as they needed to be. If this is a time of learning, surely since we are individuals we learn at different rates or have different things to learn. Nothing is ever wasted, unless we waste it, but life never is. Kaikar, you have searched for a long time you say but you also mention many good things. In one thread you said how you and your sister couldnt trust people in the same way again but still, in your heart you learned to trust or the little girl who knows a man killed her father for no reason, would not have been able to trust a man again enough to marry! There was something wrong with that man who killed your father and you may never know what, but you chose to work with physically AND mentally handicapped people. And I applaud anyone who does for whatever reason because too many people in the world dont even want to know about handicaps of any kind. You raised good kids it sounds like and are a grandma. Motherhood is a bigger accomplishment than people give it credit. I never could have kids, I had cancer in my early 30s and that took care of that. Your life could have been one big negative after that horrible day, but it is not. You are a strong woman. When you feel doubt about things tho, its ok to be weak too at times ya know? God didn't mean for anyone to carry everything alone and does not expect you
to.
Lepking,
The work you do is important and can save lives and yes, it may very well be why Lisa died. Who better to be an advocate than a mother who has gone through this? I can understand how you still miss her so. I do believe this, not out of just hope or a way to feel better about things, but out of the knowledge our Father in Heaven gives us when we search, ponder and pray....we will have a chance to see our loved ones again. He did not set up this world and have one of the major things ALL civilizations have, FAMILIES, just as an experiment that after we die those ties are gone and if we are good then we can just be little angels floating around who once had a family, NO. Family is the biggest reason we are here and why would he have us learn something that later, after this life, would be totally irrelevant? God makes too much sense to do that. We will see them again, we are meant to always be a family group with those we were here, if we do live a life that will bring us into his grace. If you look at the eternalness of things, what we are really mourning, is not the loss of a loved one, cause we dont have to lose them unless we chose to, but we mourn the loss of TIME with them. Time here seems like forever, but its only time. And in time we will see them again, where the sad, bad and hurtful things of this world dont exist anymore. I know that in your advocacy work, you do it with love and out of love, not out of revenge or negative feelings, so your right, there is purpose in her death to you and for others. And now, as you say, you have family again, a loving husband and children and to both of you I say, see, here we are back at family again. And your right Ronnie enjoyed the good only because she endured the difficult. We are all the same, we can never know the good without enduring the hard things, it helps us know what really is important in our lives and then in turn, in the lives of others. I am glad you are both here to talk to about this book and your particular outlooks on it.

It is morning, not really early at all but I did not sleep well so I know that I must be rambling on now LOL. I hope what I said made sense and didnt sound like a hung over speech of some kind. Cause its not, its what I fully believe. :smileywink:







Viv, I feel so close to you now. You have helped me see alot of things so clearly. You are so spiritual and real. God bless you in every thing you do. You have blessed me. Thanks. And also, I did feel when I took the position as a medication asst. PRN. at the learning ctr for the mentally handicapped , I was looking for something good to do for others. I never really felt I met my goal in life even though I did always without complaining devoted my life to being a good mother or the best I knew how. Alot of mistakes I did make at this, but alot of good I can see too. So I guess adversity does make you seek out to help others suffer less in this world when you know what suffering really is. I love your take on life, on god, on family. You sound so real! Sincerely Linda(va)
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Re: Middle book:Losing your childhood,for lepking and kaikar

kaikar,
A lot of what I feel now not only comes from what happened to me but also because of things I have done in recent years where I hurt someone I love as a friend dearly and now have had to let that friend go to make things right, for me, for them,for their family and for both of us with a loving God. So, i am learning from the other side of things too, what its like to feel forgiveness from God and NEED it. Let's just say, I let "feelings of the flesh" override what should have been absolute feelings of love of a friend. My choices wrecked what I know now the friendship was really meant to be. And that friend has a family. The only way to set things right then, it to let go, to give them completely back to their family, repent and work on who I am and want to be now. Its tough sometimes to forgive myself. I feel God has because of what I am going through now but I hate what I did to one of the best friendships in my life. There are lines you cross that once crossed you can't just go back to being friends, you have to have enough strength and love to let go completely and I hope I have that and I hate that its had to come to that. I miss my friend terribly, much more than what else we did with that relationship instead. I know they dont understand why we cant at least just talk now and just be friends again but as with many things in life, once you cross a certain line, you have to stop altogether or face constant temptation and you lose yourself and your connection to God, chasing something that cant be. I feel pretty certain that one day, down the road as we age, we will see each other again and those feelings that went past friendship will be gone , as they should be, but the love will still be there. It just cant now. For that I also mourn time away from someone, as I talked about before. But I am growing, I am finding strength, tho there are days I cry alone. The thing is, difficult things always have a way of making you find out just what you really believe. I hope one day they understand and forgive me too, but I had to let go because it was absolutely right and I had to let God help me find me again too. I think sometimes they feel I loved them less then they loved me, that I could let go. Actually, I found out, I loved them more than any feelings of the flesh could ever compare with and want sooo sooo much for them, that I had to let go. So much of what I believe and have learned Linda, comes from pain I caused someone else and I hate that part of it. Thank you for the kind thoughts and I have enjoyed reading your posts too. Check your messages at the upper right, the envelop for something ok? :smileyhappy: Vivian

kiakar wrote:
Viv, I feel so close to you now. You have helped me see alot of things so clearly. You are so spiritual and real. God bless you in every thing you do. You have blessed me. Thanks. And also, I did feel when I took the position as a medication asst. PRN. at the learning ctr for the mentally handicapped , I was looking for something good to do for others. I never really felt I met my goal in life even though I did always without complaining devoted my life to being a good mother or the best I knew how. Alot of mistakes I did make at this, but alot of good I can see too. So I guess adversity does make you seek out to help others suffer less in this world when you know what suffering really is. I love your take on life, on god, on family. You sound so real! Sincerely Linda(va)
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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Wrighty
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Re: Middle book:Losing your childhood too soon


vivico1 wrote:
What do you guys think about Ronnie's first couple of years after the deaths. Do you think she grew up too fast and in what ways? She had a lot to hold together then, when her parents were in their own grief. I find that in many ways, she became the parent. Not so much in helping with the emotional issues, none of them were, but in taking care of the home, her little brother, her mother who stayed in bed so much. There wasn't much time to just be a kid and it seemed hard for her to be when she has a chance. Do you think she had feelings of guilt if she found herself starting to have a good time with her friends and so then she would back away from them some? I think she, like so many who have gone through such a tragedy very young, or victims of child abuse or sexual abuse, grow up too soon. Some of it is because they get to a point that they feel like they are the only ones they can depend on. Other times its like they feel they dont have the right to just be a kid anymore, to just be as silly as one can get when, like for Ronnie, her sisters are dead. I think Ronnie's best girl friend and also Miko, were life savers for her during that time and such a volital changing age too, to have to go through such.




I think this book has hit home for many of us because we can relate it to our own personal tragedies. I'm so sorry for what some of you have endured. As you have stated, it can make you stronger but it is still such an intense pain and it changes who you are.

A few years ago I lost a teenage niece to a DWI accident. Everyone was killed except the very young driver and the guilt has ruined his life. The younger siblings of my niece have obviously been changed forever. They looked up to their sister but after her death she took on a martyr-like status. Her parents have dealt with thier grief by remembering only the good (as many people do) but often spend more time on her memory than involved in the lives of their remaining children. They are, in many ways, raising themselves. Very similar to the situation Ronnie found herself in. Children in this situation, with no direction, just do what they think is right. They don't have anything to compare it to. They've never had to grow up before. We're all trying to help but my nephews have problems. Thier parents are heavy drinkers and aren't available for them much. They get in trouble a lot at school. The best thing will be when they graduate and move away. They hurt too but they can't compete with a ghost and they can't raise themselves very well. They know we're here for them but I am worried about them. This tragedy has ruined so many lives already and it could ruin more.

Ronnie carried so much anger and had to make a decision when she hit a crossroad. I think the process is full of many crossroads. It's hard enough for adults to navigate their way through grief but when children have to do it without thier closest family members, the results can be disasterous.
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Re: Middle book:Losing your childhood too soon



Wrighty wrote:

vivico1 wrote:
What do you guys think about Ronnie's first couple of years after the deaths. Do you think she grew up too fast and in what ways? She had a lot to hold together then, when her parents were in their own grief. I find that in many ways, she became the parent. Not so much in helping with the emotional issues, none of them were, but in taking care of the home, her little brother, her mother who stayed in bed so much. There wasn't much time to just be a kid and it seemed hard for her to be when she has a chance. Do you think she had feelings of guilt if she found herself starting to have a good time with her friends and so then she would back away from them some? I think she, like so many who have gone through such a tragedy very young, or victims of child abuse or sexual abuse, grow up too soon. Some of it is because they get to a point that they feel like they are the only ones they can depend on. Other times its like they feel they dont have the right to just be a kid anymore, to just be as silly as one can get when, like for Ronnie, her sisters are dead. I think Ronnie's best girl friend and also Miko, were life savers for her during that time and such a volital changing age too, to have to go through such.




I think this book has hit home for many of us because we can relate it to our own personal tragedies. I'm so sorry for what some of you have endured. As you have stated, it can make you stronger but it is still such an intense pain and it changes who you are.

A few years ago I lost a teenage niece to a DWI accident. Everyone was killed except the very young driver and the guilt has ruined his life. The younger siblings of my niece have obviously been changed forever. They looked up to their sister but after her death she took on a martyr-like status. Her parents have dealt with thier grief by remembering only the good (as many people do) but often spend more time on her memory than involved in the lives of their remaining children. They are, in many ways, raising themselves. Very similar to the situation Ronnie found herself in. Children in this situation, with no direction, just do what they think is right. They don't have anything to compare it to. They've never had to grow up before. We're all trying to help but my nephews have problems. Thier parents are heavy drinkers and aren't available for them much. They get in trouble a lot at school. The best thing will be when they graduate and move away. They hurt too but they can't compete with a ghost and they can't raise themselves very well. They know we're here for them but I am worried about them. This tragedy has ruined so many lives already and it could ruin more.

Ronnie carried so much anger and had to make a decision when she hit a crossroad. I think the process is full of many crossroads. It's hard enough for adults to navigate their way through grief but when children have to do it without thier closest family members, the results can be disasterous.





Wrighty; Thanks for sharing this family story. I think it does help to talk of such tradegies as Ronnie faced in her life. I love real intensed fiction that reigns in their with real life. It helps people face things they might have hidden beneath the surface of their heart. Maybe your sister or sister in law could read some books like this, it could help her see. And it could help heal her. Losing a child has got to be the hardest thing ever. I wouldnt know how to begin to heal from this a horrous thing. And children are caught up in this horrible web also. The ones that are left that is. Reading real life books have really helped me vent alot and get alot of grief out of me that has lingered for years. We didnt have counciling back then and so through the years it has evaporated slowly from my aching heart. And I hope the family went to counciling? This is so sad, Wrighty! God bless them. I will pray for them.
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Wrighty
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Re: Middle book:Losing your childhood too soon

Kiakar wrote:
Wrighty; Thanks for sharing this family story. I think it does help to talk of such tradegies as Ronnie faced in her life. I love real intensed fiction that reigns in their with real life. It helps people face things they might have hidden beneath the surface of their heart. Maybe your sister or sister in law could read some books like this, it could help her see. And it could help heal her. Losing a child has got to be the hardest thing ever. I wouldnt know how to begin to heal from this a horrous thing. And children are caught up in this horrible web also. The ones that are left that is. Reading real life books have really helped me vent alot and get alot of grief out of me that has lingered for years. We didnt have counciling back then and so through the years it has evaporated slowly from my aching heart. And I hope the family went to counciling? This is so sad, Wrighty! God bless them. I will pray for them.



Kiakar,

Thanks so much for the kind words and prayers. They definitely need it. I can't imagine losing a child either and there is obviously no correct way to grieve. They had many problems before this so the accident just compounded their issues. We aren't very close but we do what we can. The only counseling came through the school and was required because of the problems there. It didn't last. The drinking doesn't help but will never change. The parents are set in thier ways but she has tried to find ways to express her grief through arts and crafts. Although it seems to help her, much of it unfortunately comes off as "hero worship", if that makes any sense. She very lovingly frames photos, etc. of her lost daughter but often forgets to have regular class photos taken of her remaining sons, that type of thing.

We try to always be available for the kids and give as much love, praise and guidance as possible. We also discuss the problems they are having in school - lack of interest, anger, not following the rules, etc. and reinforce the rules they need to follow. It's so complicated and it has left it's mark on every aspect of thier lives.
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JackieM01
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Registered: ‎03-28-2007
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Re: Middle book:Losing your childhood too soon/Sorry

This part of the book "when Ronnie lived life like a movie with the sound turned off" was the saddest part of the book for me. I felt so much grief for this very young woman trying so hard to hold her family together. She is what Vincent was in 'The Deep End of the Ocean' (just named by USA Today as the second most influential book of the past 25 years, after Harry Potter!). She is what is called the "symptom bearer." Everyone else blanks out or falls apart and one person tries to go through the motions of life. It's a terrible role, filled with guilt and loneliness; but she feels "responsible" and that no one but she can do this.
Jackie M.
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JackieM01
Posts: 81
Registered: ‎03-28-2007
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Re: Middle book:Losing your childhood too soon/Protection of youth

I think that the moment of shock and the protective function of her youth kept Ronnie from falling apart entirely until she had people around her. She did what so many people do in the fact of tragedy -- her mind stepped aside. She considered that her beloved sisters had died quickly and was grateful to God for such mercies. And the fact that Ruthie and Becky died so quickly, lying down, would have made for a ... well, for a situation in which there would not be much visible trauma.
Jackie M.
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JackieM01
Posts: 81
Registered: ‎03-28-2007
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Re: Middle book:Losing your childhood too soon/EARLY LOSS

I notice, in all these posts, the effects of early loss. It does change everything, as does being a witness to violence when you are young. One of the interesting things I have noticed in watching interviews such as 'The Actor's Studio,' is that early loss (death, divorce, loss of a sibling) is almost universal.
Jackie M.
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Wrighty
Posts: 1,762
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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U.S.A. Today


JackieM01 wrote:
This part of the book "when Ronnie lived life like a movie with the sound turned off" was the saddest part of the book for me. I felt so much grief for this very young woman trying so hard to hold her family together. She is what Vincent was in 'The Deep End of the Ocean' (just named by USA Today as the second most influential book of the past 25 years, after Harry Potter!). She is what is called the "symptom bearer." Everyone else blanks out or falls apart and one person tries to go through the motions of life. It's a terrible role, filled with guilt and loneliness; but she feels "responsible" and that no one but she can do this.
Jackie M.




Jackie,

Congratulations! Wow, what an achievement! You deserve the honor and I loved the book (saw it on Oprah and got it). You do an amazing job with all of your books. Please, keep up the good work! :smileytongue:
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JackieM01
Posts: 81
Registered: ‎03-28-2007
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Re: Middle book:Losing your childhood too soon/LOSS

Just being a witness to such a profound exchange is not what we expect from an online book club. I wanted this book to have a spiritual nature. I wanted people to think about their own responses to loss and to pain and the conflict between forgiveness and revenge. But you have articulated these things so eloquently.
Jackie M.
Author
JackieM01
Posts: 81
Registered: ‎03-28-2007
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Re: Middle book:Losing your childhood too soon/NIECE

In December, I experienced the only truly agonizing loss I had since my husband's death, the loss of my best friend, who is "alive" but brain dead and in a persistent vegetative state at 41. (See my blot on www.jackiemitchard.com called 'Just the Way You Look Tonight') It brought up floods of emotions from that period of new widowhood fourteen years ago and reminded me that all circumstances are different but that grief is the same.
Jackie M.
Wordsmith
kiakar
Posts: 3,435
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: Middle book:Losing your childhood too soon/LOSS



JackieM01 wrote:
Just being a witness to such a profound exchange is not what we expect from an online book club. I wanted this book to have a spiritual nature. I wanted people to think about their own responses to loss and to pain and the conflict between forgiveness and revenge. But you have articulated these things so eloquently.
Jackie M.





Thanks Jackie for your perfect wonderful book that enhanced our efforts to reveal the contents of our hearts where hurt and turmoil lingered for a long time. This read the second time around has been so wonderful because of sharing with these ladies that have had dark shadows as I have had seep into their lives. But all is better with Ronnie's story to quide us to brighter tomarrows. Thanks again.
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kiakar
Posts: 3,435
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: Middle book:Losing your childhood too soon/NIECE



JackieM01 wrote:
In December, I experienced the only truly agonizing loss I had since my husband's death, the loss of my best friend, who is "alive" but brain dead and in a persistent vegetative state at 41. (See my blot on www.jackiemitchard.com called 'Just the Way You Look Tonight') It brought up floods of emotions from that period of new widowhood fourteen years ago and reminded me that all circumstances are different but that grief is the same.
Jackie M.



Jackie; I am so sorry for your loss. Friend or family, you are right. It is totally a lost that hurts and cuts so deep into our hearts. But the memories seep into those painful crevices and gently eases that grief after awhile.
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