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vivico1
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Revenge, Healing and today/ Virginia Tech

With the horrific events at one of our colleges like we have not seen before, and given the nature of this book we are reading, I would like to ask something. First of all, if any of you are affected by the tragedy personally, and are here, my condolences to you and your family. My prayers are with all those involved there, the families and also the police, emergency people and the other kids of the college for what they have gone through in the last few days. We often forget others affected, especially the first on the scene people like police. I live in Oklahoma, and when the Murrah Building was bombed, they set up centers for the police, firemen, EMTs and all those who helped to, to help them cope with what they saw or had to do.

With this happening, after just having read this book and listening to the personal experiences on here and the thread on revenge and forgiveness, I was wondering some of your thoughts on this aspect that I had not thought of in the book. The young man who killed all those people at V Tech, also took his own life, leaving so much to wonder about. When someone who kills a loved one, also kills themself, does one still seek out revenge? Can one? The first stories coming out were looking for someone to blame since the kid was dead. Why didnt the school lock down after the first shooting, what about the teacher who had reported some of his behavior, tho there really was nothing illegal about it? When this kind of tragedy happens,and the killer is dead, do you think we still need to blame someone more and seek revenge on them? Or is this a kind of proof that revenge really doesnt help, or heal, because in this tragedy, the biggest revenge you could have, shoot the killer, has already been done, by him, yet there is no satisfaction in that for those who have lost someone. Again as we have talked about before, I do not equate revenge with justice. Some of the blaming has stopped today, the reality is, this probably couldnt have been stopped. Like one person said today, if a person really wants to kill themself, they will do it and if that includes taking out others, and they are determined, it will happen. I guess I have two questions. 1. Do you think people still seek revenge in general even when the offender takes his own life right then? 2. Since we have pretty much agreed that revenge never gets us what we want, do you think maybe its not so much revenge we seek at all but answers to why, or ends to our heartache and we just dont know how, so sometimes, it just comes out in seeking revenge? Maybe one more thought, if you feel it appropriate to put it in light of this book, what if Scott had taken his own life. Do you think Ronnie would have ever gotten over it? Ever let go of her own misplaced guilt? Again, my prayers to all at this time. They locked down my alma mater college here earlier today, because of a guy carrying a folded umbrella in the rain. It saddens me the reach of the fear these tragedy puts out.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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Wrighty
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Re: Revenge, Healing and today/ Virginia Tech


vivico1 wrote:
With the horrific events at one of our colleges like we have not seen before, and given the nature of this book we are reading, I would like to ask something. First of all, if any of you are affected by the tragedy personally, and are here, my condolences to you and your family. My prayers are with all those involved there, the families and also the police, emergency people and the other kids of the college for what they have gone through in the last few days. We often forget others affected, especially the first on the scene people like police. I live in Oklahoma, and when the Murrah Building was bombed, they set up centers for the police, firemen, EMTs and all those who helped to, to help them cope with what they saw or had to do.

With this happening, after just having read this book and listening to the personal experiences on here and the thread on revenge and forgiveness, I was wondering some of your thoughts on this aspect that I had not thought of in the book. The young man who killed all those people at V Tech, also took his own life, leaving so much to wonder about. When someone who kills a loved one, also kills themself, does one still seek out revenge? Can one? The first stories coming out were looking for someone to blame since the kid was dead. Why didnt the school lock down after the first shooting, what about the teacher who had reported some of his behavior, tho there really was nothing illegal about it? When this kind of tragedy happens,and the killer is dead, do you think we still need to blame someone more and seek revenge on them? Or is this a kind of proof that revenge really doesnt help, or heal, because in this tragedy, the biggest revenge you could have, shoot the killer, has already been done, by him, yet there is no satisfaction in that for those who have lost someone. Again as we have talked about before, I do not equate revenge with justice. Some of the blaming has stopped today, the reality is, this probably couldnt have been stopped. Like one person said today, if a person really wants to kill themself, they will do it and if that includes taking out others, and they are determined, it will happen. I guess I have two questions. 1. Do you think people still seek revenge in general even when the offender takes his own life right then? 2. Since we have pretty much agreed that revenge never gets us what we want, do you think maybe its not so much revenge we seek at all but answers to why, or ends to our heartache and we just dont know how, so sometimes, it just comes out in seeking revenge? Maybe one more thought, if you feel it appropriate to put it in light of this book, what if Scott had taken his own life. Do you think Ronnie would have ever gotten over it? Ever let go of her own misplaced guilt? Again, my prayers to all at this time. They locked down my alma mater college here earlier today, because of a guy carrying a folded umbrella in the rain. It saddens me the reach of the fear these tragedy puts out.





Vivian has made some important and moving comments. I also extend my condolences to everyone affected by this tragedy. I can't even imagine how horrible a person must feel inside to do such a thing. A student said it so well, they need support right now not someone to blame.

It does bring forth many of the issues we have been talking about although, very sadly, in a realistic way. Pertaining to some of the comments that Viv made, is it possible that when we suffer a loss some people get stuck in a stage of grief? Even though you never, ever get over or forget a loss you need to move on to remain healthy. If someone can't move on, if they are stuck on being angry for example, is this when violence and revenge can occur? Many people feel the need to do something, anything when something goes wrong. Whether it be making meals, childcare, a shoulder to cry on, it helps those enduring the loss and it helps those that are helping. If some people can't do something constructive maybe that is when they decide to do something destructive - suicide, revenge...

These are just ideas open for discussion. I only have my own experiences to draw from and am only asking questions and bringing up thoughts. Every situation is unique and there really is no way to predict what is really going to happen. In the ideal world we would never have to experience such tragedies again, In the meantime, may they be few and far between and may we all have shoulder to cry on.
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hasenbein
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Re: Revenge, Healing and today/ Virginia Tech

Hi,

I did send an email to Virginia Tech's President, and I'm hoping one of my friends who has a column in a newspaper will address the need to highlight the heroes.

There were so many unknowns Monday and so many conclusions being made on those unknowns that I just wanted to scream. That, and the blame game.

I have been blessed to never have had this, or any, kind of horrific tragedy in my life. So while I may wish for a moment for revenge for me against someone who has wronged me, I am able to remember that I wrong others, too.

I don't think revenge helps healing. Often when people talk about justice they mean revenge. I think true justice (the person being caught, punished, etc.) may help to bring closure and allows healing to take place. That's what makes this kind of tragedy so much worse. The closure is harder to reach.

Community can help immensely. I think of the shooting at the Amish school and the way their community came together - well, actually came closer together. And the greater community, of which we are all a part, need to be willing and available to help in any way we can.

KathyH
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cindersue
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Re: Revenge, Healing and today/ Virginia Tech


vivico1 wrote:
With the horrific events at one of our colleges ... The first stories coming out were looking for someone to blame since the kid was dead.

Cindy: I think Dr. Phil said it good. It's always easy to go back and say we should of notice him/her behavior. Blaming ourselves for missing something. But, don't we all run into odd or weird people? Who would have thought he would have done this? As many of the students said, in order to heal, we need to forgive and keep praying. But as a parent, when does the healing start when you lose a child? I hope I never have to find out. Such a tragic situation.

vivico1 wrote:
Why didn't the school lock down after the first shooting, what about the teacher who had reported some of his behavior, tho there really was nothing illegal about it?

Cindy: My best friends son lives 200 yards from Norris Hall. He was getting ready to go to class when he walked out of his apt., heard the sirens and saw the police. He came home this weekend, as did many of the students. He believes the school didn't want any undue publicity and thought they had the situation contained. He thinks regardless, they should have alerted the students sooner and locked the campus as the shooter was still at large. He thinks the president and the police security officer on campus should be fired.


vivico1 wrote: what if Scott had taken his own life. Do you think Ronnie would have ever gotten over it? Ever let go of her own misplaced guilt?

Cindy: I think Ronnie would have felt very guilty if Scott took his life.




Cindy: Speaking of media, which we talked about earlier, Billy said they're like maggots. The media is everywhere! He was even approached on the plane home. A reporter asked him if he went to VA Tech and he said yes. He said "can I ask you a few questions?" Billy said, no, I'm tired of talking about it. The reporter did leave him alone. He said he hates the media. Funny thing is ... his mom is a reporter. :smileywink:

Wrightly and Viv have made some important comments. Such an unnecessary tragedy. Billy came home to get away from the questions, the spookiness of the campus. I told him I was happy he was okay, but sorry about his classmates. I hope the healing on campus starts soon.
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vivico1
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Re: Revenge, Healing and today/ Virginia Tech

i think in situations like this, hasenbein is right, community helps a lot. When there is more than one person killed and there is lots of attention, the community is more likely to get involved and those involved are more likely to get psychological help offered to them.

A little off point but to me is...I was asked when I was in 4th grade, what i thought would bring the world together in peace,(I think they were trying to get little kid's take on the world peace thing Miss America used to always say). Well trust me, i thought tooooo much as a kid, but then I had to grow up very fast and this is what i said. I learned it from Science Fiction movies and I still believe it today. I am not cynical at all but I believe it is the unfortunate truth. I said, the world with come together when Jesus comes or when we get invaded from outer space! lol. They said invaded from outer space? Why do you say that? I said in a very serious tone, because no country works together until they all have a common enemy, so for the world to come together, we would have to have a common enemy come from another world, just like its the only way that happens in the science fiction movies. The teacher just looked at me and thought about it and had no response back for me.
I guess I think about this now because it seems to be easier for people to come together and help those in pain, when its a bigger tragedy, affects more people, or more countries, i.e. when something happens that gives us a common enemy. I think we have it in us to come together better without this happening, but we dont seem to. We are not neighbors anymore, sometimes we are barely families anymore. When we are so disconnected from each other around us emotionally, how can we ever change things, or maybe prevent things. We have more of these "loner" killers then ever before. Until we start coming together as families first, then neighbors, communities, one country, one world, lone killer and mad terrorists groups will always be out there. So we wait, till something tragic, terribly tragic happens, and then we come together, get to know each other, help each other, get out of our insolated niche and share. Individually, its often too little too late, globally we have wars and always have and will. If this all sounds so down, maybe its that 4th grader who after being hurt for years already by that time, coming to the knowledge that the world will never stop the madness against each other, till the whole world has a common enemy other than each other. What kind of lesson is that for a little kid? But tell me its not true? My teacher couldnt. And so maybe that kid is angry tonight and sad tonight, for people in VA I dont even know. But, even so, even if it takes numbers to do it, i am glad that there are so many people there helping each other, thats what should be. But where is everyone for the one child killed? the one parent? the one bum on the street? When the news is over, where is everyone then?
I tell you what bothers me too tonight, and I dont know if i mentioned this early on in this club but tomorrow is the 19th of April, the anniversary of the Bombing in Oklahoma City and there will be ANOTHER ceremony, and the tv will be filled with it again all day and its been TWELVE years! Why does this bother me? This thing they do every year now is just opening a friggin wound over and over and over for so many! We have a monument now and an education building for it and tho this ceremony was needed at first, I know people who had children die there, and other family members and a lot just can't go down there and do it anymore. Many go tho and go through the ceremonies and it tears them up again and again and the grieving goes on and on. I have a psychiatrist and she tells me, you have no idea how many people i have to see this time of year! I am not saying to the families or my friends, get over it already! I am saying to the media, let them get past it please! One friend said, my husband is not there anymore, I love the monument and I can go whenever i feel like it and sit by the survivor tree and the reflecting pool but what i cant do is that sad day of standing down there in mourning with them reading the names again and playing taps again and talking about it again. I understand what they are saying, they have a monument, they have the killer, they have their children buried away from the whole site and they are now seeking peace, not something like a terribly sad yearly event! So I am rambling tonight because I know what is going to happen tomorrow, I worry that this will become true for the 911 people and I hope something better for the V Tech. I know there are some Oklahomans that would disagree with me but sometime, even the community has to let go of the public displays and let the private ones go on as the families do whatever they need to do at this point in each of their lives.

Ok, sorry for the rambling, one thing I thought about from Cindersue's comment:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
vivico1 wrote: what if Scott had taken his own life. Do you think Ronnie would have ever gotten over it? Ever let go of her own misplaced guilt?

Cindy: I think Ronnie would have felt very guilty if Scott took his life.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
do you know when i first posted this question, with the college thing going on, I forgot briefly that Scott was trying to take his life when Ronnie found him! And I agree Cindersue, if Ronnie would have let it happen, she would have felt very guilty. I was thinking when I posted that question, what if Scott had done like this guy did and killed himself right after killing her sisters. Would she ever have gotten over it then? Would she ever be able to let go of the guilt that she was feeling then that she couldnt save them, misplaced as that guilt was? I wonder how Ronnie would have gotten through it with him dead then too. It took her years to work this out on her own this way, what would have happened then? I really dont know, it could have gone either way. But thank you for reminding me about what did happen Cindersue and oh yeah, she would have lived with guilt big time the rest of her life if she had let him die, because of who she was. And I am very glad of who she was.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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JackieM01
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Re: Revenge, Healing and today/ Virginia Tech



vivico1 wrote:
With the horrific events at one of our colleges like we have not seen before, and given the nature of this book we are reading, I would like to ask something. First of all, if any of you are affected by the tragedy personally, and are here, my condolences to you and your family. My prayers are with all those involved there, the families and also the police, emergency people and the other kids of the college for what they have gone through in the last few days. We often forget others affected, especially the first on the scene people like police. I live in Oklahoma, and when the Murrah Building was bombed, they set up centers for the police, firemen, EMTs and all those who helped to, to help them cope with what they saw or had to do.

With this happening, after just having read this book and listening to the personal experiences on here and the thread on revenge and forgiveness, I was wondering some of your thoughts on this aspect that I had not thought of in the book. The young man who killed all those people at V Tech, also took his own life, leaving so much to wonder about. When someone who kills a loved one, also kills themself, does one still seek out revenge? Can one? The first stories coming out were looking for someone to blame since the kid was dead. Why didnt the school lock down after the first shooting, what about the teacher who had reported some of his behavior, tho there really was nothing illegal about it? When this kind of tragedy happens,and the killer is dead, do you think we still need to blame someone more and seek revenge on them? Or is this a kind of proof that revenge really doesnt help, or heal, because in this tragedy, the biggest revenge you could have, shoot the killer, has already been done, by him, yet there is no satisfaction in that for those who have lost someone. Again as we have talked about before, I do not equate revenge with justice. Some of the blaming has stopped today, the reality is, this probably couldnt have been stopped. Like one person said today, if a person really wants to kill themself, they will do it and if that includes taking out others, and they are determined, it will happen. I guess I have two questions. 1. Do you think people still seek revenge in general even when the offender takes his own life right then? 2. Since we have pretty much agreed that revenge never gets us what we want, do you think maybe its not so much revenge we seek at all but answers to why, or ends to our heartache and we just dont know how, so sometimes, it just comes out in seeking revenge? Maybe one more thought, if you feel it appropriate to put it in light of this book, what if Scott had taken his own life. Do you think Ronnie would have ever gotten over it? Ever let go of her own misplaced guilt? Again, my prayers to all at this time. They locked down my alma mater college here earlier today, because of a guy carrying a folded umbrella in the rain. It saddens me the reach of the fear these tragedy puts out.



I, for one, did feel -- not sympathy, which is quite different, but pity for this young man, a kid no one ever, ever knew, who felt, apparently all his life, aggrieved and slighted. I felt great sympathy for the Holocaust survivor who gave his life as a hero (this is how I define a hero -- one who would lay down his life to do good when he might have lives and no one have judged him for it. And tremendous grief for young people and their parents. This event made me think of all the days we wake up expecting life to unspool itself more or less as it did the day before. I really don't think guns kill people. I think PEOPLE with gusn kill people; and that, as a nation, we are too broken and misplaced to use guns.
Jackie M.
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JackieM01
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Re: Revenge, Healing and today/ college

I have a son going to college next year at a Big 10 university.

When this happened, relentlessly, it was difficult to explain why we believed our Marty would be safe -- especially to his 11-year-old sister. She requested that we call the campus police there and ask them to describe the security procedures. To think this at 11; but then, I wondered at 7 why a president needed to have a bullet-proof hood on his car.

Jackie M.
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Re: Revenge, Healing and today/recovery

For one, I don't like to speculate about characters' would-haves (or especially should-haves: Recently, a woman told me that she didn't think a character had "done enough" to help in a situation -- which was ENTIRELY the point!). As for Ronnie, yes, I think she would have recovered from Scott's suicide. I don't think that she would have, after a time, believed that she "caused" it, and that she might have felt that he ought to have confronted her, sanely. She may have considered his suicide proof of continued instability.
Jackie M.
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Bill_T
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Re: Revenge, Healing and today/ Virginia Tech

Hi all -- I have been reading all of your posts with gratitude and appreciation for the thoughtfulness and depth that you've all been bringing to this conversation. I can't recall at what point after the news broke that it dawned on me that we would doubtless be talking about it here.

I hope that the experience of reflecting on it here has been one that's felt right for all of you. For myself, after the horror of the event itself, perhaps the worst thing about these murders is the intensity and inescapability of the media spectacle that follows -- it seems to wrap us all up within it, but for many of us can't help us connect to anything meaningful.

I remember when Katrina was happening almost two years ago, and many of my childhood friends in Louisiana and Mississippi lost their homes, and of course many others in a place I love suffered losses far beyond that. I was here in New York, both far away (and feeling powerless) and constantly reminded by a 24-hour news cycle that kept me riveted but gave me no more ability to grapple with its magnitude.

I feel similarly now -- confronted by all of the horrifying details and the unimaginable pain of the victims, family, friends...but all at the remove of the television. Transfixed, but powerless.

Hearing/reading your voices responding personally to this, rather than interviews or pundits, is something that has been a profound antidote to that feeling of alienation. Thank you.
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Wrighty
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Re: Revenge, Healing and today/ Virginia Tech


vivico1 wrote:
i think in situations like this, hasenbein is right, community helps a lot. When there is more than one person killed and there is lots of attention, the community is more likely to get involved and those involved are more likely to get psychological help offered to them.

A little off point but to me is...I was asked when I was in 4th grade, what i thought would bring the world together in peace,(I think they were trying to get little kid's take on the world peace thing Miss America used to always say). Well trust me, i thought tooooo much as a kid, but then I had to grow up very fast and this is what i said. I learned it from Science Fiction movies and I still believe it today. I am not cynical at all but I believe it is the unfortunate truth. I said, the world with come together when Jesus comes or when we get invaded from outer space! lol. They said invaded from outer space? Why do you say that? I said in a very serious tone, because no country works together until they all have a common enemy, so for the world to come together, we would have to have a common enemy come from another world, just like its the only way that happens in the science fiction movies. The teacher just looked at me and thought about it and had no response back for me.
I guess I think about this now because it seems to be easier for people to come together and help those in pain, when its a bigger tragedy, affects more people, or more countries, i.e. when something happens that gives us a common enemy. I think we have it in us to come together better without this happening, but we dont seem to. We are not neighbors anymore, sometimes we are barely families anymore. When we are so disconnected from each other around us emotionally, how can we ever change things, or maybe prevent things. We have more of these "loner" killers then ever before. Until we start coming together as families first, then neighbors, communities, one country, one world, lone killer and mad terrorists groups will always be out there. So we wait, till something tragic, terribly tragic happens, and then we come together, get to know each other, help each other, get out of our insolated niche and share. Individually, its often too little too late, globally we have wars and always have and will. If this all sounds so down, maybe its that 4th grader who after being hurt for years already by that time, coming to the knowledge that the world will never stop the madness against each other, till the whole world has a common enemy other than each other. What kind of lesson is that for a little kid? But tell me its not true? My teacher couldnt. And so maybe that kid is angry tonight and sad tonight, for people in VA I dont even know. But, even so, even if it takes numbers to do it, i am glad that there are so many people there helping each other, thats what should be. But where is everyone for the one child killed? the one parent? the one bum on the street? When the news is over, where is everyone then?
I tell you what bothers me too tonight, and I dont know if i mentioned this early on in this club but tomorrow is the 19th of April, the anniversary of the Bombing in Oklahoma City and there will be ANOTHER ceremony, and the tv will be filled with it again all day and its been TWELVE years! Why does this bother me? This thing they do every year now is just opening a friggin wound over and over and over for so many! We have a monument now and an education building for it and tho this ceremony was needed at first, I know people who had children die there, and other family members and a lot just can't go down there and do it anymore. Many go tho and go through the ceremonies and it tears them up again and again and the grieving goes on and on. I have a psychiatrist and she tells me, you have no idea how many people i have to see this time of year! I am not saying to the families or my friends, get over it already! I am saying to the media, let them get past it please! One friend said, my husband is not there anymore, I love the monument and I can go whenever i feel like it and sit by the survivor tree and the reflecting pool but what i cant do is that sad day of standing down there in mourning with them reading the names again and playing taps again and talking about it again. I understand what they are saying, they have a monument, they have the killer, they have their children buried away from the whole site and they are now seeking peace, not something like a terribly sad yearly event! So I am rambling tonight because I know what is going to happen tomorrow, I worry that this will become true for the 911 people and I hope something better for the V Tech. I know there are some Oklahomans that would disagree with me but sometime, even the community has to let go of the public displays and let the private ones go on as the families do whatever they need to do at this point in each of their lives.

Ok, sorry for the rambling, one thing I thought about from Cindersue's comment:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
vivico1 wrote: what if Scott had taken his own life. Do you think Ronnie would have ever gotten over it? Ever let go of her own misplaced guilt?

Cindy: I think Ronnie would have felt very guilty if Scott took his life.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
do you know when i first posted this question, with the college thing going on, I forgot briefly that Scott was trying to take his life when Ronnie found him! And I agree Cindersue, if Ronnie would have let it happen, she would have felt very guilty. I was thinking when I posted that question, what if Scott had done like this guy did and killed himself right after killing her sisters. Would she ever have gotten over it then? Would she ever be able to let go of the guilt that she was feeling then that she couldnt save them, misplaced as that guilt was? I wonder how Ronnie would have gotten through it with him dead then too. It took her years to work this out on her own this way, what would have happened then? I really dont know, it could have gone either way. But thank you for reminding me about what did happen Cindersue and oh yeah, she would have lived with guilt big time the rest of her life if she had let him die, because of who she was. And I am very glad of who she was.




As always, your comments are very stirring and well spoken. I hope the anniversary of the bombings was honored very respectfully and peacefully. Everyone should be allowed the dignity to mourn in peace and in whatever way the need to. These tragedies should never be forgotten but they don't need to be rehashed every year and splashed all over the news. It's even more tragic to have these events happen in the same month because it feels like a constant newsreel replaying these events.

I know it's different if you live in a city and how the feel of community is often lost in our busy world. I come from a small town where everyone knows everyone and our sense of community is very strong. We are a hard working, often low income area but we do for each other and pull together. We do for those in need in whatever way we can. House fire, car accident, illness - people respond immediately. Food is still brought to the homes, fund raisers are organized, "committees" are informally thrown together to help with childcare, household chores and yardwork, collections are taken - we respond in a big time way in a small town setting. We are very fortunate for that.

Viv, you must have been an amazingly gifted 4th grader. What insight you had at such a young age! That's deeper than most adults are. It sounds very true and very sad. It doesn't have to be that way though and I hope we will always be there for others in need. You're right that we have it in us to come together better and I think many of us do. It's just so unfortunate that the "lesser" tragedies and the times we do perform smaller yet equally as important acts of kindness and aid are so often seen as not newsworthy.
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vivico1
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Re: Revenge, Healing and today/ Virginia Tech

wrighty wrote:
I know it's different if you live in a city and how the feel of community is often lost in our busy world. I come from a small town where everyone knows everyone and our sense of community is very strong. We are a hard working, often low income area but we do for each other and pull together. We do for those in need in whatever way we can. House fire, car accident, illness - people respond immediately. Food is still brought to the homes, fund raisers are organized, "committees" are informally thrown together to help with childcare, household chores and yardwork, collections are taken - we respond in a big time way in a small town setting. We are very fortunate for that.

Viv, you must have been an amazingly gifted 4th grader. What insight you had at such a young age! That's deeper than most adults are. It sounds very true and very sad. It doesn't have to be that way though and I hope we will always be there for others in need. You're right that we have it in us to come together better and I think many of us do. It's just so unfortunate that the "lesser" tragedies and the times we do perform smaller yet equally as important acts of kindness and aid are so often seen as not newsworthy
__________________________________________________________________________________
Vivico1 wrote:
yeah i was a kind of out of place kid :smileywink:lol anywayyyyy, wrighty, what you write here about how you care for one another in your small communitee just shows, you are living as Christ would have you, and its a blessing isnt it.Thats what being a christian really is, not saying yes, I believe in Christ and going about your day,but instead living your belief by what you do, its not a title, but a way of life. As for the important acts of kindness so often not seen as newsworthy, we can take comfort in the fact that they are ALWAYS, Godworthy. He takes notice, and all the little acts are what keep us from completely falling into an abyss. I have a quote on my refrigerator, you may have heard before, it says, "if I can not do great things, I can do small things in a great way". I think thats a good way to look at our lives and God said, through small things he would bring about great miracles. You are a wonderful neighbor to have, I am sure. :smileywink:
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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kiakar
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Re: Revenge, Healing and today/ Virginia Tech

Monday Morning as I laid in bed, momentarily in a haze not realizing whether it was a dream or reality. The phone was ringing but I couldn't get my bearings straight to answer it. Then the message began from the phone "this is Lynn, Mom , have you heard about the shooting at Va. Tech? Have you heard from Megan? I then fully became consicious of the world around me. I scurried down the steps to retreive my phone book of numbers of the family. I flipped the button on the T.V. as I passed to obtain the telephone book. All of a sudden, it glared out at me, 22 people dead by shooting and there were gunshots in the back ground. Apparently they were showing a delayed footage of the shooting. The sounds were extremely baffling. I was frozen to the spot for a second, couldn't move or breathe. Pains were beginning to happen around my heart. Panick didn't come close to the feeling of complete agony that I felt at that moment of not knowing anything. I had no idea of her schedule, my granddaughter in her second year there at Tech, or where she was. Finally I pushed my body forward and got the phone book and dialed my daughter's number. A strange voice answered the phone "Lisa Williams Cell Phone", by that statement, I panicked again. Oh God, Lisa was not able to answer her phone. I then, screamed, who is this, where is Lisa? Calm down, Linda, (someone knew who I was) Megan is alright. She hadn't left for the campus. Lisa left her cellphone at home today. Oh! my! I still have not gotten over the horror of the moment. Not knowing, if my darling grandchild, my first that was brought into this world for me to love, spoil and adore. For just a moment I felt the horror that I know all the parents and families felt and are still feeling who lost a child. And that is why I cry today for them. How can they bear such pain! It has to be a miracle from God, to bear to live, breathe without their child.
Their hearts are broken forever but God will mend it back for them, I pray. I have heard of so much tragedy that people endure, and I know that no soul could endure without God by our side. And again I will say, I have cried many tears for every parent, sister,brother,aunt,uncle,grandparents,sibling,children,wife,husband,inlaws, that have and are suffering because of this horrific massacre. And I do feel for the victim's family. I know they are hurting for their son and all the harm his disease caused. Sincerely Linda Huff
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kiakar
Posts: 3,435
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: Revenge, Healing and today/ Virginia Tech



kiakar wrote:
Monday Morning as I laid in bed, momentarily in a haze not realizing whether it was a dream or reality. The phone was ringing but I couldn't get my bearings straight to answer it. Then the message began from the phone "this is Lynn, Mom , have you heard about the shooting at Va. Tech? Have you heard from Megan? I then fully became consicious of the world around me. I scurried down the steps to retreive my phone book of numbers of the family. I flipped the button on the T.V. as I passed to obtain the telephone book. All of a sudden, it glared out at me, 22 people dead by shooting and there were gunshots in the back ground. Apparently they were showing a delayed footage of the shooting. The sounds were extremely baffling. I was frozen to the spot for a second, couldn't move or breathe. Pains were beginning to happen around my heart. Panick didn't come close to the feeling of complete agony that I felt at that moment of not knowing anything. I had no idea of her schedule, my granddaughter in her second year there at Tech, or where she was. Finally I pushed my body forward and got the phone book and dialed my daughter's number. A strange voice answered the phone "Lisa Williams Cell Phone", by that statement, I panicked again. Oh God, Lisa was not able to answer her phone. I then, screamed, who is this, where is Lisa? Calm down, Linda, (someone knew who I was) Megan is alright. She hadn't left for the campus. Lisa left her cellphone at home today. Oh! my! I still have not gotten over the horror of the moment. Not knowing, if my darling grandchild, my first that was brought into this world for me to love, spoil and adore. For just a moment I felt the horror that I know all the parents and families felt and are still feeling who lost a child. And that is why I cry today for them. How can they bear such pain! It has to be a miracle from God, to bear to live, breathe without their child.
Their hearts are broken forever but God will mend it back for them, I pray. I have heard of so much tragedy that people endure, and I know that no soul could endure without God by our side. And again I will say, I have cried many tears for every parent, sister,brother,aunt,uncle,grandparents,sibling,children,wife,husband,inlaws, that have and are suffering because of this horrific massacre. And I do feel for the victim's family. I know they are hurting for their son and all the harm his disease caused. Sincerely Linda Huff




I meant the shooter's family instead of the victim's.
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cindersue
Posts: 323
Registered: ‎04-02-2007
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Re: Revenge, Healing and today/ Virginia Tech


kiakar wrote:


kiakar wrote:
... Their hearts are broken forever but God will mend it back for them, I pray. I have heard of so much tragedy that people endure, and I know that no soul could endure without God by our side. And again I will say, I have cried many tears for every parent, sister,brother,aunt,uncle,grandparents,sibling,children,wife,husband,inlaws, that have and are suffering because of this horrific massacre. And I do feel for the victim's family. I know they are hurting for their son and all the harm his disease caused. Sincerely Linda Huff




It was asked before, how do we feel about the shooter. What were our first reactions. My first reaction, when my best friend told me about the incident and that Billy was okay, the shooter is sick, very sick. I did not notice race, just this young individual was very sick. I cry for everyone, the ones who lost their lives, the injured, the families, the shooter and the ones who survived that still have to live this nightmare. Linda, your passage was well said. Thank you! :smileywink:
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vivico1
Posts: 3,456
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: Revenge, Healing and today/ Virginia Tech


cindersue wrote:

kiakar wrote:


kiakar wrote:
... Their hearts are broken forever but God will mend it back for them, I pray. I have heard of so much tragedy that people endure, and I know that no soul could endure without God by our side. And again I will say, I have cried many tears for every parent, sister,brother,aunt,uncle,grandparents,sibling,children,wife,husband,inlaws, that have and are suffering because of this horrific massacre. And I do feel for the victim's family. I know they are hurting for their son and all the harm his disease caused. Sincerely Linda Huff




It was asked before, how do we feel about the shooter. What were our first reactions. My first reaction, when my best friend told me about the incident and that Billy was okay, the shooter is sick, very sick. I did not notice race, just this young individual was very sick. I cry for everyone, the ones who lost their lives, the injured, the families, the shooter and the ones who survived that still have to live this nightmare. Linda, your passage was well said. Thank you! :smileywink:



There was a memorial service here in a town in Oklahoma today. One of the girls in the German class who was killed was from here. People here are talking about the OKC bombing because of its anniversary this past thurs, and the V Tech tragedy and I must admit, I have stayed away from much of the news about it. I did hear one piece on one of the news stations about does the media hype up these killers too much by all the coverage and showing the tapes the boy made to be seen after he died. Gee, do you think? I thought of Ronnie in the book.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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kiakar
Posts: 3,435
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: Revenge, Healing and today/ Virginia Tech



vivico1 wrote:

cindersue wrote:

kiakar wrote:


kiakar wrote:
... Their hearts are broken forever but God will mend it back for them, I pray. I have heard of so much tragedy that people endure, and I know that no soul could endure without God by our side. And again I will say, I have cried many tears for every parent, sister,brother,aunt,uncle,grandparents,sibling,children,wife,husband,inlaws, that have and are suffering because of this horrific massacre. And I do feel for the victim's family. I know they are hurting for their son and all the harm his disease caused. Sincerely Linda Huff




It was asked before, how do we feel about the shooter. What were our first reactions. My first reaction, when my best friend told me about the incident and that Billy was okay, the shooter is sick, very sick. I did not notice race, just this young individual was very sick. I cry for everyone, the ones who lost their lives, the injured, the families, the shooter and the ones who survived that still have to live this nightmare. Linda, your passage was well said. Thank you! :smileywink:



There was a memorial service here in a town in Oklahoma today. One of the girls in the German class who was killed was from here. People here are talking about the OKC bombing because of its anniversary this past thurs, and the V Tech tragedy and I must admit, I have stayed away from much of the news about it. I did hear one piece on one of the news stations about does the media hype up these killers too much by all the coverage and showing the tapes the boy made to be seen after he died. Gee, do you think? I thought of Ronnie in the book.




Yes, Vivian, the father of the first girl that was killed, made a plea to all media, please to stop showing the shooter and his tapes. He said it was disloyal to the children. To use the media to honor the children that was sacifriced because of this sick person. And you know, thank goodness,the media did stop the coverage of it. And now more about the victoms,their dreams, ambitions and accomplishments in their short lives.
And some wonderful intelligent professors that also lost their lives.
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