Scott Early - Mr. Misunderstood

[lepking]

Anyone want to risk and answer? Where is the responsibility for what he did? Is it God's fault? lepking

[kiakar]

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lepking wrote:
Anyone want to risk and answer? Where is the responsibility for what he did? Is it God's fault? lepking

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He had a illness, so he didn't personally get mad at some one and kill them. He was ill, say like a diabetic, who has no control of his insulin that gets less and less in his body and then causes coma. So is it God's fault? No, its the turning of the earth, it goes on and on with things happening. God can stop it, he can control it but alot of times he doesn't. But he does make things work out in the long run. Sometimes maybe he needs to teach someone a skill, make someone aware of a flaw in one's self or another. Remember God is not punishing by letting someone die, he makes it turn out right. Going with God is not punishment. We are that are left here on earth, we have to learn to except God's way that is the plan for the person. It hurts alot and always a place remains vacant but this is life too. To hurt less, we have to believe in God and know he has a plan. And I do believe we will all know God's plan when our time comes around to go on. This is my thoughts and my belief on this subject.

[vivico1]

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kiakar wrote:

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lepking wrote:
Anyone want to risk and answer? Where is the responsibility for what he did? Is it God's fault? lepking

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He had a illness, so he didn't personally get mad at some one and kill them. He was ill, say like a diabetic, who has no control of his insulin that gets less and less in his body and then causes coma. So is it God's fault? No, its the turning of the earth, it goes on and on with things happening. God can stop it, he can control it but alot of times he doesn't. But he does make things work out in the long run. Sometimes maybe he needs to teach someone a skill, make someone aware of a flaw in one's self or another. Remember God is not punishing by letting someone die, he makes it turn out right. Going with God is not punishment. We are that are left here on earth, we have to learn to except God's way that is the plan for the person. It hurts alot and always a place remains vacant but this is life too. To hurt less, we have to believe in God and know he has a plan. And I do believe we will all know God's plan when our time comes around to go on. This is my thoughts and my belief on this subject.

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I wrote something about this, that I was going to wait till closer to the end of the month to answer this and its not here now, hmmm. Anyway, I did want to say kiakar...I agree with your thinking. God doesn't give us illnesses as a punishment, he doesnt let people die to hurt anyone and going back to be with Him is definately not a punishment. We are just in school now and its not so much what happens to us as what we do with it, what we learn from it all, that's important in this life.
Later on in the discussion tho, I do want to talk about what happened to Scott because of it and how our society handles these tragedies.

[JackieM01]

But I think that God grieves with Ronnie AND with Kelly and Scott's family. Disease is the fault; and as I reflect here on Easter morning, I think...everyone has a different belief about the consciousness of God, whether it is the God of Einstein or the God of the Trinity. At times in my life, I have felt that God was "off the hook" as someone said, when tragedies happened and praised for sparing us when they didn't. BUT, now I think of God as a good parent, who can't prevent things from going wrong but can try to help us work through them and offer sympathy when they do. And I'm not born again or evangelical, just a practicing Episcoplian/Catholic by marriage -- practicing only to get it right.
Jackie m.

[lepking]

Just as God does, a parent can teach, love, encourage their children, but ultimately, they have free agency to make their own decisions and as much as we, as parents, would like to have them make good choices, that's not the plan. I can't remember, do we know anything about Scott's upbringing? Refresh me here. Was he on meds and then went off? There is some accountability there. 80% of the homeless are mentally ill and not taking their meds. They take illegal drugs in an attempt to self-medicate and then get totally messed up. lepking

[JackieM01]

L.,
Since I've had teens, I've wanted to have them shrink-wrapped until their pre-frontal lobes develop.
Jackie M.

[kiakar]

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vivico1 wrote:

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kiakar wrote:

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lepking wrote:
Anyone want to risk and answer? Where is the responsibility for what he did? Is it God's fault? lepking

---

He had a illness, so he didn't personally get mad at some one and kill them. He was ill, say like a diabetic, who has no control of his insulin that gets less and less in his body and then causes coma. So is it God's fault? No, its the turning of the earth, it goes on and on with things happening. God can stop it, he can control it but alot of times he doesn't. But he does make things work out in the long run. Sometimes maybe he needs to teach someone a skill, make someone aware of a flaw in one's self or another. Remember God is not punishing by letting someone die, he makes it turn out right. Going with God is not punishment. We are that are left here on earth, we have to learn to except God's way that is the plan for the person. It hurts alot and always a place remains vacant but this is life too. To hurt less, we have to believe in God and know he has a plan. And I do believe we will all know God's plan when our time comes around to go on. This is my thoughts and my belief on this subject.

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I wrote something about this, that I was going to wait till closer to the end of the month to answer this and its not here now, hmmm. Anyway, I did want to say kiakar...I agree with your thinking. God doesn't give us illnesses as a punishment, he doesnt let people die to hurt anyone and going back to be with Him is definately not a punishment. We are just in school now and its not so much what happens to us as what we do with it, what we learn from it all, that's important in this life.
Later on in the discussion tho, I do want to talk about what happened to Scott because of it and how our society handles these tragedies.

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Hey Vivco: Can't wait until you get back with us on the rest. I do love your comments. They are so interesting.

[vivico1]

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JackieM01 wrote:
L.,
Since I've had teens, I've wanted to have them shrink-wrapped until their pre-frontal lobes develop.
Jackie M.

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That's too funny. When I was working my way through college at Southwestern Bell,this lady brought back in FIVE phones and slammed them down on the desk to turn in. She said, I have FIVE teenagers and i think all teenager should be euthanized till they are in their 30s!! take these back, the only phone left in the house is the one in MY bedroom! hehe. I dont think she knew what euthanized was...but then again. LOL

Jackie, I can see Ronnie's sense of humor in you

Message Edited by vivico1 on 04-08-200703:05 PM

[Wrighty]

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vivico1 wrote:

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JackieM01 wrote:
L.,
Since I've had teens, I've wanted to have them shrink-wrapped until their pre-frontal lobes develop.
Jackie M.

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That's too funny. When I was working my way through college at Southwestern Bell,this lady brought back in FIVE phones and slammed them down on the desk to turn in. She said, I have FIVE teenagers and i think all teenager should be euthanized till they are in their 30s!! take these back, the only phone left in the house is the one in MY bedroom! hehe. I dont think she knew what euthanized was...but then again. LOL

Jackie, I can see Ronnie's sense of humor in you

Message Edited by vivico1 on 04-08-200703:05 PM

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That's an excellent suggestion Jackie! I used to do shrink wrap so I think I'll line mine up when they get home.

[homereader]

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JackieM01 wrote:
L.,
Since I've had teens, I've wanted to have them shrink-wrapped until their pre-frontal lobes develop.
Jackie M.

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That is an excellent concept. I have a teen, now 17. For the past few years, I have been thinking I needed to bubble wrap her, but honestly shrink-wrapping is the way to go. She needs to be confined so she can do no harm to herself or others. The bubble wrap only helps protect from external harm. LOL.

Janet

[hasenbein]

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lepking wrote:
Anyone want to risk and answer? Where is the responsibility for what he did? Is it God's fault? lepking

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When my Mother died in November 2005, one of my sisters told me she couldn't understand why people give God "credit" for good but don't "blame" Him for bad. As I was driving home, an example just came to mind.

I have a dinner party. Everyone ooh-ed and ah-ed over a particular dish, and I gave everyone the recipe. You follow the recipe and directions to the letter and have success at a delicious dish. The next time you accidentally substitute salt for sugar, or you substitute something you think would be better, or someone has tampered with one of the ingredients and the dish is a failure. So you thank me for the success but you don't blame me for the failure.

Scott has an illness. It's not God's "fault" that he has the illness. It's not even directly Scott's fault that he has the illness (he didn't do anything to "deserve" the illness). We all suffer because of all the things we all do. Think global warming, smog, distinction of plants and animals, etc.

In cases like Scott's it's so difficult to figure out what would be the very best next step - prison, rehabilitation, mental hospital, etc. Obviously, something has to be done so he doesn't harm anyone again. And yet we don't want to waste a valuable human being if we can figure out how to make him not a threat to himself and/or society, and a plus to himself and society.

KathyH

[vivico1]

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hasenbein wrote:

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lepking wrote:
Anyone want to risk and answer? Where is the responsibility for what he did? Is it God's fault? lepking

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When my Mother died in November 2005, one of my sisters told me she couldn't understand why people give God "credit" for good but don't "blame" Him for bad.
___________________________________________________________________________________
vivico1 wrote:

That's what people ask others who have faith. What I see most in the world is, when things go great, everyone says.. look what "I" did! taking all the credit, and when they go bad, then its ..well if there is a God, why did he let this happen! People don't get that the opposite is true. You may accomplish a lot in life and deserve kudos, but dont forget who gave you your talents and then the free will to use them as you will. When things go bad,dont look to God and say why, look to ourselves and say why did I make such choices! As for things beyond anyones control here, folks this is life, if everything were easy and nice and no pain and no sorrow and no hate and no disease, well then, your looking for where you left to come here and where you want to go back to...heaven, cause it aint here. If this was perfect i.e. heaven, there would be no lessons to learn, so why would we have been sent down here to begin with. If you want to know the meaning of life, this is it. Its up to us now to learn the very best we can and then in the end, what we cant do, (because only one person on this earth was perfect) He will make up for and cover us. Now that truly is Grace.

[Wrighty]

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hasenbein wrote:

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lepking wrote:
Anyone want to risk and answer? Where is the responsibility for what he did? Is it God's fault? lepking

---

When my Mother died in November 2005, one of my sisters told me she couldn't understand why people give God "credit" for good but don't "blame" Him for bad. As I was driving home, an example just came to mind.

I have a dinner party. Everyone ooh-ed and ah-ed over a particular dish, and I gave everyone the recipe. You follow the recipe and directions to the letter and have success at a delicious dish. The next time you accidentally substitute salt for sugar, or you substitute something you think would be better, or someone has tampered with one of the ingredients and the dish is a failure. So you thank me for the success but you don't blame me for the failure.

Scott has an illness. It's not God's "fault" that he has the illness. It's not even directly Scott's fault that he has the illness (he didn't do anything to "deserve" the illness). We all suffer because of all the things we all do. Think global warming, smog, distinction of plants and animals, etc.

In cases like Scott's it's so difficult to figure out what would be the very best next step - prison, rehabilitation, mental hospital, etc. Obviously, something has to be done so he doesn't harm anyone again. And yet we don't want to waste a valuable human being if we can figure out how to make him not a threat to himself and/or society, and a plus to himself and society.

KathyH

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I'm curious to see what people think about this situation. Scott Early performed one of the worst crimes imaginable when he took the lives of two children. He obviously wasn't in his right mind and suffered from mental illness. He also was horrified by what he had done and felt guilt and remorse. He was treated and moved on to be a productive member of society. I did feel some sympathy for him and felt he was a victim as well. If another person committed similar terrible crimes while suffering from an illness(as was the case at Virginia Tech) but didn't feel the same guilt and remorse, would they still be deserving of some sympathy? They also are a victim but does it depend on their reactions and our emotions?

I guess this sounds pretty vague and I'm not talking about forgiveness I'm just curious to see what others think about this. Just trying to bounce some ideas around to start a conversation. It's late, I'm tired - does this make sense?

[Wrighty]

vivico1 wrote:

That's what people ask others who have faith. What I see most in the world is, when things go great, everyone says.. look what "I" did! taking all the credit, and when they go bad, then its ..well if there is a God, why did he let this happen! People don't get that the opposite is true. You may accomplish a lot in life and deserve kudos, but dont forget who gave you your talents and then the free will to use them as you will. When things go bad,dont look to God and say why, look to ourselves and say why did I make such choices! As for things beyond anyones control here, folks this is life, if everything were easy and nice and no pain and no sorrow and no hate and no disease, well then, your looking for where you left to come here and where you want to go back to...heaven, cause it aint here. If this was perfect i.e. heaven, there would be no lessons to learn, so why would we have been sent down here to begin with. If you want to know the meaning of life, this is it. Its up to us now to learn the very best we can and then in the end, what we cant do, (because only one person on this earth was perfect) He will make up for and cover us. Now that truly is Grace.

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At the end of the poem "Footprints" it talks of there only being one set of footprints beside a man and God said those were the times He carried him. I really like that description of faith. We all need to be responsible for our own lives but have God to carry us through.

[vivico1]

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Wrighty wrote:
vivico1 wrote:

That's what people ask others who have faith. What I see most in the world is, when things go great, everyone says.. look what "I" did! taking all the credit, and when they go bad, then its ..well if there is a God, why did he let this happen! People don't get that the opposite is true. You may accomplish a lot in life and deserve kudos, but dont forget who gave you your talents and then the free will to use them as you will. When things go bad,dont look to God and say why, look to ourselves and say why did I make such choices! As for things beyond anyones control here, folks this is life, if everything were easy and nice and no pain and no sorrow and no hate and no disease, well then, your looking for where you left to come here and where you want to go back to...heaven, cause it aint here. If this was perfect i.e. heaven, there would be no lessons to learn, so why would we have been sent down here to begin with. If you want to know the meaning of life, this is it. Its up to us now to learn the very best we can and then in the end, what we cant do, (because only one person on this earth was perfect) He will make up for and cover us. Now that truly is Grace.

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At the end of the poem "Footprints" it talks of there only being one set of footprints beside a man and God said those were the times He carried him. I really like that description of faith. We all need to be responsible for our own lives but have God to carry us through.

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I agree with you wrighty.