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in answer to Wrighty's question in intro about Mormon life

[ Edited ]
Hey Debbie,
We can use this thread to discuss Mormon life and I will be glad to share what I can with you from my own. I will probably not be the only Mormon out there that reads this book and is in here. I do hope this thread will be informative and fun and that we are all careful of any major religious debates on anyone's religion. Also, I just saw something on tv yesterday that might be of interest to you. I have marked it myself to see. On Apr 30 and May 1st, on PBS everywhere, there is going to be a 4 hour program on the Mormons produced by a non Mormon who was given access, from my understanding, to people and things she wanted to really know about in an objective way. I do not know what is in it, its accuracy nor heard anything from Church official's on it. But she is a well known producer and if she had the access that Mike Wallace did for his story, it should be good. I hope so :smileyhappy: Vivian aka vivico1

p.s. PLEASE be careful everyone, to not ask or discuss anything here from the book that may be a SPOILER to those who are not at that chapter yet. Lets not ruin the book for all. I would hate that. If there is a question about something in a particular chapter involving Ronnie's beliefs, please put in the message subject of this thread: MAY BE SPOILER FOR CHAPTER..and what chapter its in, so no one will read it if they are not there yet. I just thought about that.

Message Edited by vivico1 on 04-02-200710:44 AM

Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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Re: in answer to Wrighty's question in intro about Mormon life

FYI, everyone, here's a link to an article with more detail about the PBS documentary Vivian mentions above. Looks interesting.

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,650222861,00.html
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Re: in answer to Wrighty's question in intro about Mormon life


vivico1 wrote:
Hey Debbie,
We can use this thread to discuss Mormon life and I will be glad to share what I can with you from my own. I will probably not be the only Mormon out there that reads this book and is in here. I do hope this thread will be informative and fun and that we are all careful of any major religious debates on anyone's religion. Also, I just saw something on tv yesterday that might be of interest to you. I have marked it myself to see. On Apr 30 and May 1st, on PBS everywhere, there is going to be a 4 hour program on the Mormons produced by a non Mormon who was given access, from my understanding, to people and things she wanted to really know about in an objective way. I do not know what is in it, its accuracy nor heard anything from Church official's on it. But she is a well known producer and if she had the access that Mike Wallace did for his story, it should be good. I hope so :smileyhappy: Vivian aka vivico1

p.s. PLEASE be careful everyone, to not ask or discuss anything here from the book that may be a SPOILER to those who are not at that chapter yet. Lets not ruin the book for all. I would hate that. If there is a question about something in a particular chapter involving Ronnie's beliefs, please put in the message subject of this thread: MAY BE SPOILER FOR CHAPTER..and what chapter its in, so no one will read it if they are not there yet. I just thought about that.

Message Edited by vivico1 on 04-02-200710:44 AM






This will be great, thanks for sharing! I don't know much at all about Mormon life and after reading this book it seemed like such an interesting topic. I went to a small protestant church as a child but I don't attend any church now. I taught for several years at a Catholic school and learned a lot while I was there. The church and many of their celebrations were so beautiful. My brother converted to Mennonite when he married and I'm receiving an education there as well. I have another family member who attends classes based on the science of the bible. I'm not interested in debates on religion, I would just like to learn more. I think it will be fun to hear what you have to say and how your life has compared to the Swan family's.
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Re: in answer to Wrighty's question in intro about Mormon life

Well, I am not sure where you want to start, or how much you want to know. Our basic believes and some information, you can find at:
http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg
It will tell you alot about what we believe, you can even read some of the talks given at different events and our humanitarian aspect to the world too. Even I use the site when I am looking up some gospel topics for a talk or something. I take it you are wanting to know some of our basic lifestyle. Well, i would just about guess that you know some mormons but dont know they are mormons. Our daily lifes are not so different than anyone else's. We work and live in the general public like anyone else. You will find mormons in major league sports, politics, science, McDonalds lol, just any and everywhere. We follow what we call the Word of Wisdom that basically says not to partake of things harmful to the body like drugs, alcohol, tobacco, coffee or tea. We are about as family oriented as you can get. We believe families can be eternal. There are parts in the book that allude to this that when we get chapter headings for that, I can explain more. We dont dress any different than anyone else, other than we believe in being modest in clothing, which is why Ronnie was so cute when she was talking about how some of the girls she knew dressed! Tho they may be the main stream, we dont believe in skirts up to your butt, but they dont have to be down to the floor either. We wear swimsuits like anyone else but one piece suits for the girls, not bikinis and no speedos for the guys LOL. We attend church every Sunday as a family. We set aside one day a week devoted to just spending time together as a family. It can be in spiritual lessons, or attending a movie together or just sitting around the dinner table and talking about family things and being in touch with each other. This is time for family. Married couples are encouraged to have a date night each week too, to keep close to one another and the romance alive, to just have time as a couple too. We believe very strongly in service, be it in the community or for one another. For example, I live alone and had rotator cuff surgery after trying to lift something outside in the spring i had no business messing with lol. Anyway, the women in the church, brought me meals until i could get my one arm unbound from my body to be able to handle pots and pans a bit better. One even took me for my surgery. The men came out and mowed my 2 1/2 acres of land that whole summer so I wouldnt have to. They weed eated even! We are very aware that beyond our immediate family, we are all family and should help each other when in need. We have dances, we do about any of the entertainment stuff most do, ,movies, theatre, sports, etc, but do not go to bars or nightclubs or gamble. You are reading in the book, how important family is in Ronnies family and thats true. We do not believe in judging others their shortcomings and hope none judge us. Now all this being said, does not mean ALL members follow this Debbie. In that, we are no different than any other religion, people have their free agency to decide what they do in their lives and in this story, Ronnie is struggling with the growing pains of youth and her own free agency. I can totally feel how Ronnie would feel and how her parents would too. Grief is a hard thing and I think Jackie does a great job of showing the differences within this family about how they handle it, even given their beliefs. Isn't that true of us all? I fear too often tho, when some of us do not live the doctrine "perfectly", people often judge the church by it, and thats a shame. You cant judge any religion by any individual's actions but by its doctrine. And I dont think thats particularly what you want at this point from what you say...doctrine that is, or you can go to that site for our basic beliefs but this is just a little of basic mormon life, my life somewhat, if this at least is a start to what you are wanting to know. Ask me what you would like to know, or about something you read in the book and I will try my best to answer. Watch out for spoilers tho :smileywink:. I dont think I gave any spoilers in just what i wrote. Right now this little mormon girl, needs to get a bath and wash my hair and got to color some grey out of my hair LOL!
Oh, btw, I was not raised Mormon either, and am familiar with some other religions too. This is my home tho, now and forever. later girl.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
wrighty wrote:
This will be great, thanks for sharing! I don't know much at all about Mormon life and after reading this book it seemed like such an interesting topic. I went to a small protestant church as a child but I don't attend any church now. I taught for several years at a Catholic school and learned a lot while I was there. The church and many of their celebrations were so beautiful. My brother converted to Mennonite when he married and I'm receiving an education there as well. I have another family member who attends classes based on the science of the bible. I'm not interested in debates on religion, I would just like to learn more. I think it will be fun to hear what you have to say and how your life has compared to the Swan family's.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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Re: Chapter 10 question about Mormon life


vivico1 wrote:
We can use this thread to discuss Mormon life and I will be glad to share what I can with you from my own. ...



Okay, I have a question. Chapter 10, page 107. London says BYU is a meat market, and girls go there to catch a good Mormon man to marry. This upsets him because he says "If Heavenly Father didn't intend women to understand economics, why did He give them charge of households, and if women weren't intended to understand philosophy, why were they the first teachers of the word, and if they weren't intended to practice psychology, why did the Lord intend they should be mothers?"

Does this mean the women should stay home and tend to children and household tasks? One stereotype I have heard repeatedly is that Mormon men do not like their wives to work outside of the house. Is this true? I was surprised that Ronnie was able to proceed toward a degree, let alone her doctorate.
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Re: Chapter 10 question about Mormon life


cindersue wrote:

vivico1 wrote:
We can use this thread to discuss Mormon life and I will be glad to share what I can with you from my own. ...



Okay, I have a question. Chapter 10, page 107. London says BYU is a meat market, and girls go there to catch a good Mormon man to marry. This upsets him because he says "If Heavenly Father didn't intend women to understand economics, why did He give them charge of households, and if women weren't intended to understand philosophy, why were they the first teachers of the word, and if they weren't intended to practice psychology, why did the Lord intend they should be mothers?"

Does this mean the women should stay home and tend to children and household tasks? One stereotype I have heard repeatedly is that Mormon men do not like their wives to work outside of the house. Is this true? I was surprised that Ronnie was able to proceed toward a degree, let alone her doctorate.


No actually, he is complimenting women here and saying look, women really are the ones in charge of the households, so God knows they can understand economics,they teach the children first (and most)at home, so certainly they can understand college philosophy,and mothers have got to understand something about psychology to handle kids, so why not psychology in school. London is infuriated with the idea women doing just what Ceci admitted she did, study just enough to get a scholarship to get to BYU to GET a "catch" of a husband. He is saying, look, that shouldnt be the only reason that girls go there! They should be going there for an education like anyone else, look at the God given abilities that they have! I agree with him here and quite frankly 30 years ago, I DIDNT want to go to BYU either, because from what I had heard about girls going there "to find a catch", I didnt want any professor not taking me seriously or my studies thinking thats what I was there for. In some ways, thats still what it is, some girls want to go there just to get a husband so it is a meat market that way. But in other ways more now, its also a good school of higher learning where kids of the same faith want to go to college together, have the same interests too and if love is a part of it, cool. Cause the boys feel that way too. But its not just a "mormon" school. Its a major University and lots of none LDS kids go there too. Lots of the professors are not LDS. As far as working outside the home. When its possible, yeah, the ideal would be for mom to stay at home, not to just "tend tasks" but because it is a proven fact that the kids do better with a mother at home and the family is more cohesive. There is nothing wrong with women working outside the house, this is just the ideal, and now days it takes about two incomes anyway to take care of a family. The hope is tho, that the neither parent, but most especially the mother because of her much heavier role in a childs life, never put a career above the family. Ya know? Some kids never see their folks, father or mother, for more than a couple of minutes a day. You will find mormon women in all types of fields tho. I mean, look, even Jackie was talking about Sheri Dew, hoping she would have this book in Deseret Book. Well Deseret Book, is THE official LDS church Book store and Sheri is the president of it. She has spoken to the United Nations on family issues when invited and to presidents. And Sheri is not even married or have any kids! London knows the value of a woman and especially a mother and he is saying, this place is also a place of learning girls that women can handle cause man they do economics, philosophy, psychology every day in their own families, they are the glue! How often have women felt that raising their kids has been left to be their major responsibility and had to take on that roll almost alone because sometimes men thing bringing in the bacon is all they need to do. It should be both, often its not. London is making the comparison that involves the idea that thank God, women were given that nurturing but also logical mind they have cause man are they going to need it to run a house and raise good kids.
Vivian
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Re: in answer to Wrighty's question in intro about Mormon life

Hey, i was looking at Oprah's bookclub, trying to see how to sign up there too and check out what they are saying about THE ROAD which is being discussed in here (BNBC) now and next month and I ran across this ad somehow about a movie coming out this year. A fantasy about a modern day girl who crosses into the past, into the land of Zarahemla, which is where one of the biggest battles in the Book of Mormon takes place, and is believed to be in meso-america. Now how in Utah, she would go into the past in meso america, i dont know LOL. I dont know if this is a "church" film, or what, but its going to theaters and may be a fun adventure flick. Here is a trailer on it. http://www.passagetozarahemla.com/

there have been a few movies put out on big screen by the LDS church, three, a series of novels based in early america, the early mormons and kind of westerns in a way i think are some called The Work and The Glory, I think and can be rented on dvd. I havent seen any yet but am told they are pretty good movies.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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Re: in answer to Wrighty's question in intro about Mormon life

that looks interesting. I'll keep a watch on it. Thanks Viv
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Re: in answer to Wrighty's question in intro about Mormon life

Thanks for the info Vivian. I really appreciate your updates and help. I don't know much at all about Mormon life but I find it very interesting.
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Re: in answer to Wrighty's question in intro about Mormon life


Wrighty wrote:
Thanks for the info Vivian. I really appreciate your updates and help. I don't know much at all about Mormon life but I find it very interesting.


No problem. I think the reason most people dont know a lot about "mormon life" is because we are just average folks you are going to find anywhere. I think sometimes , a lot of people get the idea that if you "see us" you will know lol. A lot of my friends thought we lived together like the amish, or dressed like memmonites. Now there is definately no insult intended there, they just thought EVERYTHING we do is different. Chances are everyone in here knows at least one mormon and hopefully they are a practicing one, since people tend to judge the whole church by just one of us. But after all, there are over 13 MILLION members world wide and we are the 4th highest christian religion in the US and growing at a rate of half a million a year.
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Re: in answer to Wrighty's question in intro about Mormon life


vivico1 wrote:

Wrighty wrote:
Thanks for the info Vivian. I really appreciate your updates and help. I don't know much at all about Mormon life but I find it very interesting.


No problem. I think the reason most people dont know a lot about "mormon life" is because we are just average folks you are going to find anywhere. I think sometimes , a lot of people get the idea that if you "see us" you will know lol. A lot of my friends thought we lived together like the amish, or dressed like memmonites. Now there is definately no insult intended there, they just thought EVERYTHING we do is different. Chances are everyone in here knows at least one mormon and hopefully they are a practicing one, since people tend to judge the whole church by just one of us. But after all, there are over 13 MILLION members world wide and we are the 4th highest christian religion in the US and growing at a rate of half a million a year.




Noticed Viv said "Christian religion?" I have a good friend who is of Mormon faith, and when I talk about her my friends always ask, "does she believe in Jesus?" I say yes. Many people do not think they are practicing Christians. And, many people still believe the men have more than one wife. I don't know why Mormon's are so misunderstood. What do you think Viv?
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Re: in answer to Wrighty's question in intro about Mormon life


cindersue wrote:

vivico1 wrote:


No problem. I think the reason most people dont know a lot about "mormon life" is because we are just average folks you are going to find anywhere. I think sometimes , a lot of people get the idea that if you "see us" you will know lol. A lot of my friends thought we lived together like the amish, or dressed like memmonites. Now there is definately no insult intended there, they just thought EVERYTHING we do is different. Chances are everyone in here knows at least one mormon and hopefully they are a practicing one, since people tend to judge the whole church by just one of us. But after all, there are over 13 MILLION members world wide and we are the 4th highest christian religion in the US and growing at a rate of half a million a year.




Noticed Viv said "Christian religion?" I have a good friend who is of Mormon faith, and when I talk about her my friends always ask, "does she believe in Jesus?" I say yes. Many people do not think they are practicing Christians. And, many people still believe the men have more than one wife. I don't know why Mormon's are so misunderstood. What do you think Viv?




Don't you think a lot of religions are misunderstood? Or maybe it just seems that way to me. When my brother became engaged to a girl whose family belonged to a Menonite church I wasn't sure what to expect. It's a great little place. It's a very tiny, close knit, small town church and everybody dresses "normal". My brother converted before they married and they are very happy. Their church is very welcoming.

Maybe it's because there are different branches, or extremes or levels or whatever you want to call it - of the different religions. And geography could also allow for differences. The small town churches here in the east may be totally different than big cities churches in the south for example.

I don't belong to a church at the moment but I am open and interested in all forms of religion. I consider myself to be a person of faith but maybe not in the traditional sense. I don't think someone who is a total jerk 6 1/2 days a week and then goes to church one morning is a better person than someone who leads a good life every day but doesn't go to church. I do believe in a higher power and I do pray and I have great faith in mankind and a fierce and awesome love of family. I guess maybe I am still searching for exactly what I believe in. It's a nice journey.
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Re: in answer to Wrighty's question in intro about Mormon life

[ Edited ]
Cindersue wrote:
Noticed Viv said "Christian religion?" I have a good friend who is of Mormon faith, and when I talk about her my friends always ask, "does she believe in Jesus?" I say yes. Many people do not think they are practicing Christians. And, many people still believe the men have more than one wife. I don't know why Mormon's are so misunderstood. What do you think Viv?
_____________________________________________________________________________________
vivico1 wrote:

First of all Cindersue, thank you for your thoughtful question.
Sometimes I think it is because we are so mainstream in some ways, that we dont "stick out" like the stories of the mormons from 150 years ago. And we are always amused but sad too that some people dont think we are christian when our church is not called the church of Mormon and we dont worship Joseph Smith, it is The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latterday Saints. We are conservative. We dont drink,gamble, curse (hopefully much lol). We believe in modest dressing but not so much so that we stand out in a crowd as different. Like Ronnie said, you just arent going to be seeing our bellybuttons, butts sticking out, or tons of cleavage. We believe in God the Eternal Father, in his Son Jesus Christ and in the Holy Ghost. We believe that in and through Jesus Christ we are saved, but that "saved" is not a tag of well I am saved, no matter what! We believed we are saved by the grace of the atonement BUT, this is a process for us too, meaning, if you really believe in Christ and if you really BELIEVE CHRIST and what he said, being christian isnt a title, its a way of life. Its trying to live as he said, "come follow me" "as you see me do, ye do also". We believe in service one to another, member or not but yes especially within the gospel. We believe in the exact same church Christ set up when he was here on earth, with apostles, prophets, the priesthood and also temples! I dont know any other christian religion that has temples and I dont understand that. Christ did NOT do away with them when he came or was ressurrected. As a matter of fact, if you read the new testament, after his resurrection, he instructs Peter and James, I believe it is, not to go out of Jerusalem to preach until after they go up to the temple to be "endued" or "endowed". There are several stories in the new testament of them going up to the temple but now instead of blood sacrifices, Christ instructs them that they are to come with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, meaning, come repentant and teachable, give me your heart in the temple not blood sacrifices because I fulfilled that and it is done away with. Where are the other christian temples?? Christ said the temples were His Father's house. Most people associate them with the Jewish religion, but Christ was clear on this before and after his atonement. Where are they? They are important to our eternal growth and salvation. Christ did not destroy them or do away with them or the apostles or prophets. When all of the apostles were killed off, there was no one left holding all the keys of the priesthood and the world fell into an apostasy. The temples were done away with and the ordinary man who lives a christlike life's right to the priesthood. If you dont think there was an apostasy, then you need to be Catholic, they believe there never was one and they are the true church, even tho the whole set up changed from how Christ set it up including the preisthood and the temples. The temples were destroyed after the apostles were killed and not until the gosple was restored, was there a Christian temple on the earth again. If you are of any other faith, then you come from one of all the other religions who did believe there was an apostasy and broke away from the catholic church, through such men as Martin Luther and Calvin. But where is their priesthood authority? Where are their temples? We believe in every man's right to worship where and how they may, and have a great relationship with the catholic church and many other denominations. There is no animosity, we believe what we do because of faith and individual prayer asking God to confirm these things to us that we are taught and we do believe if any man asks with an open heart, these things will be revealed to him as truth or falsehoods. God does not lie.

If people think we are different, read the New Testament and what Christ taught and what Paul wrote (which is most of the NT) and see if you dont see "the mormons" there. We dont believe in changing what the doctrines are to suit us, but to change ourselves to fit the gospel of Jesus Christ. As for the Book of Mormon, if any of you like history books, you would love the Book of Mormon, thats what it is. Its the story of a group that left Jerusalem before its fall and were guided by the Lord to come to what is now known as MesoAmerica, basically between mexico and south america. They brought the writings of the old testament because each family with a patriarch kept scrolls from which they taught the faith and they knew as did everyone before Christ came , that he would come. They came to the americas before christ was born. Its a book of history, faith, times of a people here that when archeologist have read the Book of Mormon, have sometimes used it as a guide for things they have found that they dont understand in South America. Like temples and preisthoods and ARAMIAC languages. Such as the Mayans had. Its a book of stories of faith, and wars and the promise that they would know when Jesus was born in the old world and that when he died, they would know and after his resurrection, he would come and show himself to them.,.."his other lost sheep". It covers about 1000 year period of history and is a second testimony of Jesus Christ and his teachings. Its not about Mormon life in Utah, or Joseph Smith. Its about South Americans who came from the holy lands and all that happened to them. Its also why the largest population of Mormons, are in South America. These people know these things from way back in their own stories and beliefs and the Holy Spirit has witnessed strongly to them. So if you want a really good read about the history of a christian people and their way of life and their wars and their faith, then try the book of Mormon :smileywink:. Its a great second testimony of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
If i sounded preachy or anything here, I do not mean to be. I am just sharing with you something that is a huge part of my life, and gives my life and this world meaning and I do know of its truth. So maybe i wasnt preachy, but at the same time, bearing my testimony to you :smileyhappy: and also something said, to mention what the Book of Mormon was, so I did lol. I think a lot of people dont know what it is, or think its about the mormon church after Joseph Smith, instead of the wonderful history book of faith (and adventure) that it is.
_______________________________________________
Also Wrighty wrote:
Maybe it's because there are different branches, or extremes or levels or whatever you want to call it - of the different religions. And geography could also allow for differences. The small town churches here in the east may be totally different than big cities churches in the south for example.

Wrighty, your right, many religions have different levels or extremes but I will tell you this. When people talk about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, there is only ONE. You can walk into a service anywhere in the world and they will be teaching the same gospel regardless of country or language. It will be in their language maybe but the same gospel, always. You will have a sacrament meeting, sunday school,(for adults and one for the kids), preisthood meetings for the men and Relief Society for the women, no matter WHERE you go. You are brothers and sisters and never feel a stranger. We dont have breakoff branches of the church. Anyone who uses the name of the book of mormon anywhere else, is not a branch of us and have no authority in this church. Anyone practicing polygamy today and has a book of mormon in their house IS NOT a branch of mormonism, or a phrase i hear now "mormon fundamentalist". There is no such thing. You either are or arent a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints, a Mormon. One God, one religion. :smileywink:

Message Edited by vivico1 on 04-20-200707:36 PM

Vivian
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Re: in answer to Wrighty's question in intro about Mormon life/reminder


Bill_T wrote:
FYI, everyone, here's a link to an article with more detail about the PBS documentary Vivian mentions above. Looks interesting.

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,650222861,00.html


Just a reminder before the weekend for those of us interested. The PBS special on The Mormons, will be shown this coming monday and tues night. Bill was kind enough to put a link to information on it and I am looking forward to it too. Its a nonmember who produced this so is suppose to be objective but informative. Its been great to meet you guys and talk about not just Mormon life but faith, God, trials, forgiveness and all the things we have shared together. Vivian
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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