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suetu
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Angkor in the news...

I read the following article this morning, and while not directly related to anything in The Judas Strain, I thought some of you might find it interesting.

Best,

Susan

Angkor under 'serious' threat from development: scientists
Thu Aug 16, 3:49 AM ET

Uncontrolled development around Cambodia's Angkor temples poses a serious threat to one of the region's great wonders, said the archaeologists who this week revealed the full extent of the site.

Angkor was a "vast and populous network ... stretching far beyond the well known temples of the central archaeological park," said the Greater Angkor Project (GAP) at the University of Sydney on its website.

"Delicate traces of that network ... remain on the surface even today and are of great archaeological significance, but are under serious threat from uncontrolled development in the Siem Reap area," the group warned.

The group on Monday published a paper saying that during its height of power between the ninth and 14th centuries, Angkor -- covering about 1,000 square-kilometres (400 square-miles) -- was "the most extensive city of its kind in the pre-industrial world."

Angkor was at least three times larger than archaeologists had previously suspected, eclipsing comparable developments such as Tikal, a Classic Maya "city" on the Yucatan peninsula in Mexico.

Using digital mapping to detail some 3,000 square-kilometres around the temples, the group found evidence of an urban centre supported by a complex series of canals and waterways that became too vast to manage.

Deforestation and erosion caused as the city extended its rice fields to feed its bloated population led to a collapse in infrastructure, and Angkor was eventually abandoned.

The temples today remain Cambodia's largest tourist draw, attracting almost one million visitors last year and bringing more than a billion dollars to the impoverished country.

But along with the tourists has come a massive building boom in and around the Siem Reap town -- the gateway to the temple complex.

Officials have long voiced concern over the effects of this explosion of visitors on the temples themselves, but attention has now been turned to development around the park.

Most seriously, huge hotels, along with dozens of smaller guesthouses have begun to suck the area's water supply dry and have raised fears that the temples could collapse as the earth beneath them is destabilised.

According to GAP, its digital mapping database was presented to Cambodia's Apsara Authority, the government's Angkor management group in order "to safeguard the archaeological landscape."
Susan
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vivico1
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Re: Angkor in the news...


suetu wrote:
I read the following article this morning, and while not directly related to anything in The Judas Strain, I thought some of you might find it interesting.

Best,

Susan

Angkor under 'serious' threat from development: scientists
Thu Aug 16, 3:49 AM ET

Uncontrolled development around Cambodia's Angkor temples poses a serious threat to one of the region's great wonders, said the archaeologists who this week revealed the full extent of the site.

Angkor was a "vast and populous network ... stretching far beyond the well known temples of the central archaeological park," said the Greater Angkor Project (GAP) at the University of Sydney on its website.

"Delicate traces of that network ... remain on the surface even today and are of great archaeological significance, but are under serious threat from uncontrolled development in the Siem Reap area," the group warned.

The group on Monday published a paper saying that during its height of power between the ninth and 14th centuries, Angkor -- covering about 1,000 square-kilometres (400 square-miles) -- was "the most extensive city of its kind in the pre-industrial world."

Angkor was at least three times larger than archaeologists had previously suspected, eclipsing comparable developments such as Tikal, a Classic Maya "city" on the Yucatan peninsula in Mexico.

Using digital mapping to detail some 3,000 square-kilometres around the temples, the group found evidence of an urban centre supported by a complex series of canals and waterways that became too vast to manage.

Deforestation and erosion caused as the city extended its rice fields to feed its bloated population led to a collapse in infrastructure, and Angkor was eventually abandoned.

The temples today remain Cambodia's largest tourist draw, attracting almost one million visitors last year and bringing more than a billion dollars to the impoverished country.

But along with the tourists has come a massive building boom in and around the Siem Reap town -- the gateway to the temple complex.

Officials have long voiced concern over the effects of this explosion of visitors on the temples themselves, but attention has now been turned to development around the park.

Most seriously, huge hotels, along with dozens of smaller guesthouses have begun to suck the area's water supply dry and have raised fears that the temples could collapse as the earth beneath them is destabilised.

According to GAP, its digital mapping database was presented to Cambodia's Apsara Authority, the government's Angkor management group in order "to safeguard the archaeological landscape."


It figures doesnt it :smileysad:
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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Vila
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Re: Angkor in the news...

Poor Angkor. Not only is the development threatening it, those huge trees that look so grand are eating away at the temples and crushing them. It takes a lot of work to try to keep the trees from swallowing up the temples and not hurt the trees in the process, but now it sounds like development will destroy everything, trees and temples alike!

There are times when I am in full agreement with government regulated population control, (but I only feel that way for a very short time!).
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JamesRollins
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Re: Angkor in the news...

Thanks for the new thread, Susan. I had heard of the trampling and encroachment occurring among the ruins. A shame. But in such an impoverished country, the ruins are major tourist industry and a source of revenue. It would be like shooting themselves in the foot if they tarnish the majesty and mystery of the ruins. In my opinion, they are a global treasure as valuable as the Egyptian pyramids.

Jim


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suetu
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Re: Angkor in the news...


JamesRollins wrote:
Thanks for the new thread, Susan. I had heard of the trampling and encroachment occurring among the ruins. A shame. But in such an impoverished country, the ruins are major tourist industry and a source of revenue. It would be like shooting themselves in the foot if they tarnish the majesty and mystery of the ruins. In my opinion, they are a global treasure as valuable as the Egyptian pyramids.

Jim




Hola Jimbo,

I was going to send that article to you (as I often do), but then thought of posting it here for everyone.

Are you familiar with the phrase "carrying capacity"? It describes the number of people an environment can comfortably accomodate for tourism. (Very important, for instance, in the case of ecotourism.) If a location gets greedy and goes above its carrying capacity, then the attraction that draws the people begins to degrade. Eventually, people stop coming and the money dries up, but by then it's too late.

Resources of this sort, whether environmental or cultural, must be cafefully managed so that they can be enjoyed and appreciated by the greatest number of people in the long term. It's a delicate balance. Hopefully the folks in Angkor will figure it out.
Susan
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JamesRollins
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Re: Angkor in the news...

I hope they do figure it out in time...but I think the same applies to many archaeological sites and natural wonders across the globe. In fact, the same holds true for our own National Parks. We have a valuable natural resource in our park system, and it is disconcerting to see signs of neglect or encroachment (or worse penetration) by industries.

One of my favorite mystery series is Nevada Barr's novels. She sets her mysteries in various National Parks and the park itself becomes almost a character in the book. They are great novels---not just as mysteries, but also offer a great naturalist's insight into the treasures we have here in our National Parks.

Jim


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Jennie
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Re: Angkor in the news...

"One of my favorite mystery series is Nevada Barr's novels. She sets her mysteries in various National Parks and the park itself becomes almost a character in the book. They are great novels---not just as mysteries, but also offer a great naturalist's insight into the treasures we have here in our National Parks."

I was thinking the same thing. Her novels give insight into the life of the parks themselves. I am sure being a ranger herself makes a big difference in the quality of her books.
I do hope Cambodia will protect the Angkor area. Greed/money is a powerful motivator for overlooking the damage that over use and building can do to such a treasure, environmentally as well as archaelogically

Jennie
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vivico1
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Oklahoma in the news

Mother nature hit us last night and this morning here in Oklahoma with full force. The rains from this hurricane last week, that didnt even hit the US as a hurricane I dont think, (I cant think of the name of it) came up through Texas as rain bands, some pretty good ones but when it hit Oklahoma, where there is like a tropical air mass sitting here for some reason, just exploded all over the state! They said this morning it had ground winds of 65-90 miles an hour and it was named "on land hurricane" Ellen I think. I never heard that term before! and that they named it? We have had severe flooding all over the state and a couple of tornadoes.

Some towns, like Kingfisher, a good size little town is totally underwater and its not going down like the rains we had in July, this is like hurricane flooding on the plains. I am safe where I am and did go to church today but few there, some could not get out of there homes. It is incredible the distruction. They are showing shots from helicopters all over and its just water! You know there are towns there and roads, you see rooftops, but its all water. They are rescuing people all over the state in boats. Cars and trucks are floating away. Late last night when I looked, one reporter was saying dont get out, even if you think you can on the roads because if you get into 6 inches of water that will knock you off your feet, 1 foot, is floating cars and it happened so fast that the reporters said they were covered with spiders and insects as they stood there, they were everywhere grabbing on to anything that looked dry. They showed all the spiders and insects and of course there are snakes everywhere looking for land. Trees are down everywhere, electricity is out over a big part of the state. They just said they are evacuating one part of a town now because of the smell of natural gas. People are lost.

This is a friggin PLAINS state! and its like the waters of a hurricane basin. It just wrapped up with an actual eye and went nuts on us. They are worried with this tropical air sitting over us in the jet stream, this could happen again at the end of the week when hurricane Dean hits south of Texas. We have talked about things we can do to help the earth or is it too late. The last three years have been more than anything we have ever seen in decades and decades, and its accelerating. How do we fight this kind of destruction from nature now, when we have done so much to bring it on, destroying the ozone layer, the forests, the oceans. Its like mother earth is saying ENOUGH, now I am going to fight back and fast and hard. If I am not on at any time the rest of the month, its not by choice but could be from the weather knocking out electricity, phones or something but I think as long as I stay out here on my property that is higher up, I am ok. Unless we get hit with the high winds or a tornado, like what hit my friends house at 4am this morning who lives just 2 miles from me. I feel very blessed to be right where I am right now but our state is really having trouble and its disturbing to see people struggling in water to be rescued on tv, tho one chopper did try to get down to one to help because no one else was around to help. I am going to go now and see what all is going on, on tv.

I believe there are things we can do to help slow down what is happening to our earth at our hands and SHOULD, but I also believe for myself, from a religious stand point, we are in the wrapping up stages of man's life here. If you think all the revelations of the last days, are "well we always hear about earth quakes and floods and stuff, they have always been around", then you are not watching what is happening now and how quickly. Personally, I give us 50 years or less. We read, some say they believe the scriptures, but most of us always think, no not now, not in my lifetime, not for hundreds of years. If you believe in it at all, then you have to believe it will happen, so what makes this generation special that it wouldnt be now? We need to do things to help the earth, not just for ourselves, but because its the right thing to do, it just is. We are stewards of this planet who are destroying what we have been given stewardship over. People sometimes think about, when the day comes and they are standing before God, what will they say, have they done the things they should have and repented of the things they havent, will they be ready. I wonder something new now, that I hadnt thought about a lot, will the Lord ask me, individually..... what did you do with the home I gave you, did you take care of it? I gave you all you could ever need to survive and grow and thrive. Did you use it wisely? Did you harm your own home, just because you could? Are these things our sins too.

Ok, if I sounded preaching, I just keep seeing incredible things happening in the world, especially in the last 3-5 years and I cant help think about prophecy. This summer in Oklahoma we have seen things that just are not normal and have wreaked such havoc on us and think about how this is just one state of many in a country in the world of many and wonder, what are we doing, and how long have we got to make peace with our home, the earth. We have battered her so much, she is fighting back. Maybe its time to kick the fleas off the dog and the dog is shaking and doing all it can to rid itself of the parasites, or if you will, from a religious sense, maybe we are not that far from the second coming and really need to take stock of ourselves. Its sunday :smileywink:, here ended the lesson for today.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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JamesRollins
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Re: Oklahoma in the news

I'm glad you're safe, Vivian. I grew up in St. Louis, and I remember the wicked summer storms that would occasionally blow through there. Sometimes with winds strong enough to kite you off your feet.

As to the changes in weather, some claim this is just a "cycle" of bad weather that strikes the globe randomly, but what I'm reading is that it may be a "cycle," but when compared historically, this is an "escalating cycle" whose source is not just random but predictable due to the rise of carbon in the atmosphere. And I'm loathe to try to tie any Biblical connotations to these "escalating cycles," mostly because then what's the drive to stop it? If it's God's will, then why fight it? As I mentioned in this thread or another, I'm a bit of a cautious optimist. I think we can with small and large efforts turn this tide. We're at a tipping point...so rather than falling to our knees and giving up, we've got to stand taller and do the right thing.

Vivian, I like the idea of God standing at the gates and not just judging our kindness to others...but also our kindness to this planet. I can see Him walking up with a scale---not to judge your moral sins, but to weigh your carbon debt. There would be some VERY surprised people in that line!

On a totally different subject, I came across a disturbing (yet fascinating) fact yesterday.

Do you know what the most dangerous animal on the planet is?


It's the mosquito. HALF of all the human deaths on this planet can be traced to a mosquito bite. Even right now, one person dies every 12 seconds from a mosquito.

So if you think Mother Nature is not capable of swatting us down, just remember that the tiny nuisance of a mosquito has felled half the human population.

On THAT happy note....

Jim


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Stephanie
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Re: Oklahoma in the news

Jim,

Funny coincidence- my children were just asking me the other day what purpose the mosquito served. I had no answer for that one- except to spread diseases. I realize other creatures eat them, but surely there are other things those creatures could be eating!
Stephanie
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vivico1
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Re: Oklahoma in the news

James, this stuff that is happening, isnt even like the cyclical stuff that does happen. Its so very different and harder. It is what the planet is becoming.

When you say:
"And I'm loathe to try to tie any Biblical connotations to these "escalating cycles," mostly because then what's the drive to stop it? If it's God's will, then why fight it? As I mentioned in this thread or another, I'm a bit of a cautious optimist. I think we can with small and large efforts turn this tide. We're at a tipping point...so rather than falling to our knees and giving up, we've got to stand taller and do the right thing."
I do believe in God, and I do believe there will come a time when Christ returns and all the things in the bible will happen first before He does. But what christian in their right mind, falls on their knees and GIVES UP?? lol If anyone truly is a Christian, then they wont wear that as a title and say , DOH, here's the signs, nothing to do now! They will do what Christ told us to do all our lives whenever in the history of the earth we live and that is " do as he would do" and that is never giving up. That is always doing what is right, not just to your fellow man but to the animals here, and to the earth herself. If we actually believe, no we dont just give up. Theres nothing Christlike in that. What if He had? He followed through to the end and good thing too or no atonement for us. If one calls themself a christian, then they do not run and hide from this, or cancer or anything that could befall us, but instead do all within our individual powers we can while we are here to make this place a better place when we leave it than when we got here. By the way, I dont think whats causing global warming, endangered species, poor use of resources,etc. are God's will. I dont think he wants to see what is happening, happen. I thinks its man's free agency to DO something, right or wrong. I think He would LOVE to see us do better and care!

You made me think of Homer Simpson in one episode LOL. He gets an inspirational tape and is playing it in his car, and that phrase, live today as if it were the last day of your life comes on. Well we have all heard it and know it means, make the best of this day and each, make them all count. Well Homer must be one of your fall on your knees and give up guys because when he hears that, the next scene is him out of his car, sitting on the curb crying WHY ME LORD!!!!! I AM TOO YOUNG TO DIE!! and wailing LOLOL!. Man that made me crack up. So no, to put a biblical view to what is happening is not to pull over and cry because this is the end! *sob, choke* lol :smileywink: Biblically, the signs of the times are given to help all of us prepare and make the best of our lives we can and do the best that we can, not just for ourselves, not for a new house or car or all that stuff, but for each other and every thing we already have. If we cant take care of this stewardship, why would we be fit for anything better. Its not a lay down and call it quits cry, its a wake up call.

As for the mosquito, I believe it. I think I mentioned didnt I ,that we have already had a death from west nile fever here.

I was out today and the sun was shining but there was more water in places that there werent yesterday. They said in many places the water is still rising from run off. I just cant wait for Fall and I hope we have a good long one, not a two week fall lol.

Hey, for anyone, dont get down on your knees to give up, get down on your knees to give thanks and ask for the strength to do the things we need to be doing, any day of our life. Even if you have to pray for the strength to recycle! Do it. :smileywink: What may not be hard for one person may seem horrendous for another.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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vivico1
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Re: Oklahoma in the news

[ Edited ]
This man saw his family being swept away in some of the floods here. Read what he said, how sad is that to be your last words :smileysad:

http://www.koco.com/news/13931944/detail.html?rss=okl&psp=news

there are also pics on that page and videos of a lot of it down to the right some. This is a day and a half after the fact. Yesterday mornings pictures, you could only see the tops of cars and/or houses in Kingfisher and two other towns, so its down some now, draining into the rivers and swelling the banks causing damage that way. I couldnt get any of the live footage from yesterday online, they werent online, just tv.

Message Edited by vivico1 on 08-20-2007 09:20 PM

Message Edited by vivico1 on 08-20-2007 09:27 PM
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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vivico1
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Re: Oklahoma in the news

I was just going to edit the previous post I did here today about this is not the usual cyclical stuff after I just saw the weather and it was too late. What they are saying about this storm that hit us this weekend was that it came in as rain bands like we get from hurricanes but when it hit oklahoma, it wound up into a tight tropical storm again and near hurricane. It had a very defined eye and they said you just dont get a tropical storm REform again this far inland from the waters of the gulf and were calling it an onland hurricane at one point, which is why we look like a state hit by one and they are trying to figure out why it wrapped up again over land with a definite eye. They said that one has never formed from the gulf over land like this before. I guess maybe somewhere else maybe it has, but they said never north of the gulf before.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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Vila
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Re: Oklahoma in the news

I hope you continue to be okay Viv. I have been hearing about the storms and flooding, and Hurricane Dean may bring more trouble. I certainly hope that Dean does not affect your area too much.
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JamesRollins
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Re: Oklahoma in the news

I was also watching the news on Dean heading for the Yucatan. Did anyone else see the picture of the Mayan ruins (Tulum) backdropped against the hurricane winds? Now that was an apocalyptic shot if there ever was one. The ancient stones of a lost civilization standing up against Nature's fury. It was both hopeful and despairing at the same time.

Jim


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vivico1
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Re: Oklahoma in the news


JamesRollins wrote:
I was also watching the news on Dean heading for the Yucatan. Did anyone else see the picture of the Mayan ruins (Tulum) backdropped against the hurricane winds? Now that was an apocalyptic shot if there ever was one. The ancient stones of a lost civilization standing up against Nature's fury. It was both hopeful and despairing at the same time.

Jim


I havent seen it, but I read about it online this morning, or last night, about it heading for those Mayan ruins and i thought OH NO NO NO! I need to find some place I can check that out, I dont have but local national affiliates here, no cable or satellite so I get a lot of national news only at about 6pm and then whatever I find on the internet.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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