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Rahel
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Barney and boxing today

For Doug and for our readers, I was wondering how Barney compares to boxers today, and whether he is a presence in contemporary boxing lore.
Thanks
Rahel
Rahel
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Dmitriy_Salita
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Re: Barney and boxing today

[ Edited ]

Rahel wrote:
For Doug and for our readers, I was wondering how Barney compares to boxers today, and whether he is a presence in contemporary boxing lore.
Thanks
Rahel



Barney Ross truly is the definition of a word fighter inside and outside the ring. His family were immigrants and when Barney was a young man it was an extremely hard and frustrating experience for him. As many young Jewish boys did at that time he channeled his frustration into boxing.

Barney Ross is not a glitz and glamour flashy kind of personality. He is someone that can I can easily relate to and I am sure who ever reads his story will do the same. He is truly a Jewish hero and an American Hero. I think it's hard for the Jewish generation today to understand how great of a fighter and man Barney Ross was. The hard work and perseverance that it took for him to become such a skilled athlete a boxing star and an American Hero.

I also think that Barney Ross personified the Jewish American experience of that time. In the era of strong and open anti semitism he was able to excel at a sport that up to that time was not considered very Jewish. Barney Ross is my hero! As a boxer it gives me a great sense of pride and encouragement to try and follow in the historic path of the excellence that he achieved in the ring.
-- Dmitriy Salita

Dmitriy "Star of David" Salita is an undefeated welterweight boxer. His record is 28 wins, 0 defeats, 1 draw -- 16 wins by KO. Amazing!
--Rahel

Message Edited by Rahel on 03-14-2008 03:52 PM
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Douglas_Century
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Re: Barney and boxing today

[ Edited ]
I'd like to thank Dimitriy for his comments and for upholding and recognizing Barney’s legacy. He's a remarkable young fighter, in so many ways.

These “era vs. era” comparisons are common in sports debates, and generally, they are impossible to resolve. Pele vs. Maradona as the greatest ever footballer (soccer player) is a famous one. It's completely subjective, obviously. All sports have changed drastically over the decades in terms of pace, conditioning, work-ethic...

As for boxing, one is forever hearing the experts posing similar fantasy match-ups. “Would Joe Louis have beaten Muhammad Ali?” "Would Ali have knocked out Tyson?"

I’ll defer to my friend Mike Silver, a true prizefighting historian, curator of the museum exhibition“ Sting Like a Maccabee: The Golden Age of the American Jewish Boxer.”

I spoke to Mike recently about how Barney would have done against a top fighter of today like Floyd Mayweather, Jr. According to Mike, the fighters of today are incredibly well-conditioned, and in the case of a guy like Mayweather, superlative natural athletes.

But they are not trained to have the ring smarts that men of Barney’s era did. The old-time trainers had a collective history of ring knowledge – tricks of the trade -- that most trainers today have lost. Mike gave me examples from recent fights (which are a little too technical to get into here) where top-flight fighters made elementary errors. Mistakes that a smart fighter like Barney would have capitalized on in a heartbeat, most likely ending the fight. A boxer of Barney’s caliber -- and Benny Leonard, of course -- made very, very few mistakes. They didn’t get pinned against the ropes. They slipped punches effortlessly.

So a lot of what passes for “greatness” today is often amazing athletic ability rather than the true art of boxing that so many of the old-timers displayed.

Is Barney’s legacy remembered by today’s fighters? By and large, no. Dimitriy Salita is an exception to the rule. Though it's funny -- Mike Tyson, whose managers showed him old black and white films of Benny Leonard and Barney Ross, gave interviews talking about how he could never compare to their level of skill.

But across the board in today’s sports world, young guys rarely know anything about the trailblazers. Gayle Sayers, one of the greatest running backs in history, was talking about this fact on ESPN before the Super Bowl. He’s a legendary Chicago Bear whose career was cut short by injury, who did things on the field that are still unbelievable to watch, but rarely do any of the current crop of NFL players even know who he is.

Message Edited by Douglas_Century on 03-14-2008 05:58 PM


Learn more about Barney Ross.
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Rahel
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Re: Barney and boxing today

So it sounds like a fighter who did know about Barney and his generation could learn a lot from them and really gain an advantage!
Rahel
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AntisemitismInBoxing
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Re: Barney and boxing today

Contemporary boxing is full of anti-semitism. Dana Rosenblood never fought on HBO. Roman Greenberg never fought on HBO. #2 World ranked Dmitriy Salita never fought on HBO. Did you ever read what anti-semitic boxing writers  write about jewish athletes, how they put

jewish atletes down. It looks like jewish public doesn't know what's going on, they don't know what anti-semitism jewish athletes go through. So, much discussions about antisemitism in Europe, about holocaust But it's happening right here in America, in front of you. Athletes who make a living with sweat and blood literally are discriminated just because they are jews.

Do something about it, complain, speak up about discrimination of jewish athletes. We have to fight back antisemitism. 

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AntisemitismInBoxing
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Educated reader should know about antisemitism in boxing. And there people who are responsible for antisemitism, people who promote antisemitism - they are TV executives who are responsible for not giving you an opportunity to watch jewish fighters on big tv screen.

Just because they are jewish - they are not given a chance to fight on TV networks. It is probably hard for you to believe that antisemitism in sport like boxing can take place in America but it is unfortunatly true.

There two people who are responsible for antisemitism in boxing. Both of them are big time antisemites, you should and you have a right to know who they are. 

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AntisemitismInBoxing
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Re: Barney and boxing today

ADL is not doing what they supposed to do. It is their primary responsibility to reflect on glass ceiling against jewish boxers. Antisemites are smart when they criticize jews. For example, one boxing writer was putting down Roman Greenberg in his article. But he was using some kind of old jewish guy who criticized Greenberg for his performance, so it was somebody else's opinion. And in the end (to protect himself, like insurance) he writes, by the way my grandmother is jewish...
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AntisemitismInBoxing
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One boxing promoter, who is antisemite, hates jewish boxer so much, so he said "I will destroy him in his own community". He said in front of jewish people...
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AntisemitismInBoxing
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One boxing promoter told one TV executive, don't ever give this jew fights on your TV network. It was about 5 years ago, that's why you don't see this jewish fighter on TV...

P.S. this is what you call antisemitism by certain individuals (however they make key decisions), which doesn't express official opinion of the TV network.

Bottom line those anti-semites keep this jewish boxer off TV... 

Nevertheless, jewish boxer knows about this antisemitism but he doesn't talk about it, continues to train, fight and win - with so many obstacles against him, he is a true hero. You all know who he is but I can't say because antisemites might use it against him, and I know they will... 

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AntisemitismInBoxing
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Re: Barney and boxing today

Big networks intentionally failed to schedule fights for jewish boxers. The keyword here is intentionally. Biased cryticism is really closer to anti-semitism. There are graduate and undergraduate programs around the country that study genocide, holocaust and anti-semitism. There scholars that research anti-semitism in contemporary america, corporate anti-semitism, etc. Talented World ranked Jewish boxers who go through hell of anti-semitism should be topic of your research!!! Organizations that supposed to fight anti-semitism like ADL, this is your job to bring public attention to discrimination against jewish athletes. This organized anti-semitism in boxing (by some decision makers) is not much better than mossacre in Munich - there, they were killed physically, here they just isolated by anti-semitic executives who run boxing networks. It's happening in America, in 21 century...!!! Remember, indifference killed jews in Europe. Indifference is killing jewish fighters in America today...
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AntisemitismInBoxing
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Re: Barney and boxing today

There is a lot of anti-semitism behind the scene destroying jewish boxer's career. It's time for jewish leaders, jewish writers, jewish public advocates, and organizations like ADL to get involved. Basically, what happens is - fights don't get approved because jewish boxer is being sabbotaged by one or two people in the industry. Those people are anti-semites and it's really easy to prove especially now when jewish boxer/s is ready for top guys in the sport.
Time is now!!!
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AntisemitismInBoxing
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Re: Barney and boxing today

Make the fights happen. Give jewish kids (boxers) who works hard a chance.

 

Antisemitism should be stopped!!!

STOP ANTISEMITISM! JEWISH PEOPLE HAD ENOUGH THROUGHOUT HISTORY. IN THE SPORT

WHERE THEY WORK HARD WITH SWEAT AND BLOOD THEY DESERVE A CHANCE. 

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AntisemitismInBoxing
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Re: Barney and boxing today

Open Letter about Anti-semitism in Boxing. Boxing was

a jewish sport, now it's anti-semitic sport

 

Jewish boxer was told by TV executive:

 

"You are not spanish, we are not gonna walk extra mile for you. We can only give you fights with 70% of loosing."

 

 

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AntisemitismInBoxing
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BIG ANTI-SEMITE KEEPS JEWISH BOXER OFF TV

 

 

, Russian Man Gets Prison For Internet Anti-Semitism - the TV executive Anti-semite is much worse than poor russian anti-semite because russian anti-semite can only post messages. TV executive Anti-Semite keeps jewish boxers off from fighting on major boxing network. He does damage to jewish boxers, to jewish and non-jewish fans, to jewish americans, and to jewish people around the world. Nobody says anything, indiference is the biggest evil.
So, Big Anti-Semite is winning the fight against jewish boxers, and jewish fans.
Associated France Press noticed what's going on. Setanta TV noticed what's going on. England noticed what's going on. We have new Dreyfus Case coming... Jewish fans and jewish boxers are victims of anti-semitism in boxing!!! They are sabbotaged, isolated, segregated and boycoted by the Big Anti-semite decision maker.

 

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AntisemitismInBoxing
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Promoted fighter is usualy brought up by promoter, by TV networks, etc. not when it comes to jewish fighters... jewish fighters brought down unlike everybody else. They don't get fights on major TV, they turned down by TV executives without explanation. That's what you call antisemitism. If not antisemitism by certain people in boxing - there would World Champion long time ago. But because of few antisemites it didn't happen yet.

 

P.S. One particular TV executive has a lot of hate, and I mean big time hate, for jewish boxer just because he is jewish. You know what anti-semites like to do? They like to use one jew against another - when it's getting hard for them to discriminate against both. Just like this anti-semitic boxing writer did he used one jew to put down another jew. TV executive might try to do the same thing. 

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AntisemitismInBoxing
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Re: Barney and boxing today

Stinker of the Year: Yuri Foreman/Dmitriy Salita/Nicolay Valuev (Three-Way Tie), - another proof of antisemitism by spanish boxing writers

 

 http://www.doghouseboxing.com/Duran/Coyote010709.htm

 

Maybe it's time for jewish writers start puting spanish fighters down like Chavez Jr. - he deserves much more cryticism than mentioned jewish fighters.

 

Most spanish writers in boxing are antisemites, as well as spanish executives. 

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AntisemitismInBoxing
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Re: Barney and boxing today

MUST READ ARTICLE ABOUT CORRUPTION IN BOXING

 

http://maxboxing.com/Hauser/Hauser010708.asp 

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AntisemitismInBoxing
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Re: Barney and boxing today

Anti-Semitism, Semitism on the Rise in

 

New York City

 

 

P.S. There sense of unity in Russian Jewish Community both in America and in Israel. We support Israel's operation in Gaza.

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AntisemitismInBoxing
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Re: Barney and boxing today

Do more to support American fighters and stop discriminating against elite jewish fighters you put on garbage instead

In recent years, the world sanctioning bodies have outsourced the making of world champions (once American-made) to foreign countries. Now HBO Sports seems to have developed a fascination with things imported.

In 2008, there were 34 fights on HBO World Championship Boxing and Boxing After Dark. That’s 68 slots for fighters. I checked Boxrec.com (which is pretty reliable). Did you know that less than half of those 68 slots were filled by American fighters?

If the price is right, it makes sense to put Ricky Hatton and Joe Calzaghe on HBO. There hasn’t been a more compelling British invasion since the Beatles and Rolling Stones. But did we really need to see guys like Robert Steiglitz and Michel Trabant (each of whom fought on HBO in 2008)?

How bad is Michel Trabant? On July 19th (his first fight after being knocked out by Andre Berto), he lost a unanimous eight-round decision to Roman Seliverstov (a fighter with a 7-and-7 record who had lost seven of his previous nine bouts). Trabant now has one win, two losses, a draw, and one no-contest (he tested positive for steroids) in his last five fights.

If you want to create an environment in the United States in which boxing (and HBO’s ratings) can flourish, you should do more to support American fighters. That doesn’t mean televising mediocre American fighters and lousy fights. But when the opponent is fungible (as guys like Trabant and Steiglitz are for viewing purposes), there’s no reason to not televise an American fighter.

Yes to Michel Trabant, and no to jewish fighters= ANTISEMITISM

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AntisemitismInBoxing
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Re: Barney and boxing today

Stop giving preferential treatment to Golden Boy and Al Haymon (De La Hoya childhood friend runs HBO Boxing After Dark, Oscar got him a job on HBO in exchange for some favors) HBO Latino, Yes. Jewish fighters on HBO, no = ANTISEMITISM!!!
There’s a joke that’s making its way through boxing circles: “Richard Schaefer and Al Haymon aren’t as smart as people think they are. They’ve done a lousy job of running boxing at HBO.”

During Seth Abraham’s tenure as president of Time Warner Sports, HBO was guided by what were known internally as “the five pillars of HBO Boxing.” For example, one “pillar” was that Abraham felt it was important that the “fight of the year” have been televised on HBO.

There’s a widespread belief that, under your administration, the “two pillars of HBO Boxing” are Golden Boy and Al Haymon. As a reference point; out of eleven fights considered by the Boxing Writers Association of America for the 2008 “fight of the year” award, only two (Cotto-Margarito and Pacquiao-Marquez II, both of which were on pay-per-view with Top Rank as the lead promoter) were affiliated with HBO.

I know you like Richard Schaefer. I do too. He’s smart. He’s a gentleman (which separates him from a lot of people in boxing). I have no quarrel with his trying to get as many dates as possible for Golden Boy on HBO. That’s his job as Golden Boy’s CEO.

But it’s hard to shake the belief that HBO is tilting the playing field in Golden Boy’s favor to the detriment of other promoters. One of your underlings explained it to me as follows: “Arum, King, DiBella; all those guys are headaches. Richard is low maintenance. He knows exactly how to stroke Ross. And as long as Ross gives Golden Boy what it wants, Richard makes it easy for Ross to do business with him.”

Unfortunately, one consequence of your being stroked is that fighters are abandoning the promoters who built them and signing with Golden Boy in order to get dates on HBO.

“Part of being a promoter,” Top Rank president Todd DuBoef says, “is to be an entrepreneur. That means taking risks and developing your product. Great promoters are developers and builders, not stealers and poachers.”

Golden Boy now features Golden Oldies that someone else developed (e.g. Oscar De La Hoya, Bernard Hopkins, Ricky Hatton, Shane Mosley, Juan Manuel Marquez, Juan Diaz, and David Haye). They’ve used HBO‘s checkbook to sign them. It’s a little like Pat Boone in the 1950s selling a million copies of the cover version of Ain’t That A Shame and Tutti Frutti after Fats Domino and Little Richard first recorded the songs.

Late last year, HBO Sports presented a marketing plan to several promoters that would have brought their fighters to New York for a promotional shoot designed to support boxing on HBO. The plan was rejected. Why? Because the fighters were to be posed as students in a classroom under the instruction of Oscar De La Hoya.

What message do you think you sent with that?

As for Al Haymon; what is it with you and Al? You seem to bend over backwards for him like Chubby Checker going under a limbo bar.

Al is smart. He can be charming. But the line of mismatches, boring fights, and excessive license fees that you’ve approved for his fighters is as long as the Great Wall of China.

Did HBO really need Paul Williams vs. Verno Phillips paired with Chris Arreola against Travis Walker? Williams and Arreola (Haymon’s fighters) were both favored at better than 10-to-1. The show, televised on November 29th, did a 1.4 rating, so obviously your subscribers didn’t care about the fights.

Nor was that an isolated instance. Andre Berto (represented by Haymon) against Michel Trabant, Miguel Rodriguez, and Steve Forbes might have been interesting if Berto had fought all three guys on the same night. Unfortunately, you televised each fight separately last year. Librado Andrade vs. Robert Steiglitz was another one of Al’s “greatest hits” that aired on HBO in 2008.

And speaking of another Al Haymon fighter; one of the things I don’t understand is why HBO is paying a multi-million-dollar license fee (rumored to be US$3,200,000, but I can’t believe it’s that high) for the March 14, 2009, rematch between Chad Dawson and Antonio Tarver.

I know Tarver is one of Al’s fighters. But did you see the first Dawson-Tarver fight?

Not many people did. It had a 1.5 rating. You don’t strike me as the sort of guy who sits at home on Saturday night watching fights on Showtime, so my guess is that you didn’t see it live. Did you watch a tape before you bought the rematch for HBO? Be honest; because if you say you watched it, someone might quiz you on what you saw. If you did watch it, did you watch the whole thing or fast-forward through the boring rounds? You could have fast-forwarded a lot and not missed much. Do you really want to see that fight again?

Could Dawson-Tarver II turn out to be great viewing? Anything’s possible. But the chances of showing HBO’s subscribers a good fight are better if you start with a fight that looks good on paper. You could have spent your money more wisely.

Most likely, the Dawson-Tarver II telecast will be pretty boring. For creative production values, you’ll start out with the five-year-old tape of Antonio asking, “Got any excuses tonight, Roy?” Somewhere along the line, Max Kellerman will tell us that Chad Dawson reminds him of some all time great (hopefully not Bob Foster). And ratings will tank unless you pair the fight with a good co-feature.

By the way; as of this writing, promoter Gary Shaw has a multi-million-dollar license fee from HBO for Dawson-Tarver II but no site. What does that tell you about the fight? How many tickets do you think Gary will sell? I’ll bet the under on ticket sales. I’ll also bet the under on the Nielsen rating.

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