chat with jon (spoiler) [ Edited ]

[ziki]

Hi Jon,
I just step into it:

Kirkus wrote:
Clinch's intent is to probe the nature of evil. Mary and Huck briefly escape Finn's drunken reign of terror and are taken in by the Widow Douglas; Finn reclaims them and strangles Mary in her sleep, then skins her like a rabbit. Much later, Finn scribbles incriminating drawings on his walls; whether or not they show a conscience at work, they will lead directly to Finn's own murder by another black woman, his next intended victim. Despite needlessly confusing chronology, a memorable debut, likely to make waves.

This sounds a little explicit...can we talk about evil? Why did you think it was important as a topic? And what did you learn about evil from the writing process?

Also what would you say about their comment =needlessly confusing chronology, is it?

thanks
ziki
curious as always

Message Edited by ziki on 03-03-200706:33 PM

[jonclinch]

Hi, Ziki --

Don't you hate when the first reviews give everything away?

Ah well. I'd always figured that there were plenty of cats in this bag that wouldn't stay put.

The kind of evil I was most interested in thinking about -- and writing, as we all know, is a kind of slow and reiterative thinking -- was, obviously, racism. I'll have more to say about that as we go, but it seems to me that the things about which we human beings tend to get most heated up are the things about which we have, at heart, conflicted emotions. Which led me in certain directions w/r/t Finn.

As for the chronology, it's meant to be a little bit demanding. And of course it's the way it is for a host of reasons. I certainly did my best to make sure that all of the time shifts are clearly signposted.

-- Jon

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ziki wrote:
Hi Jon,
I just step into it:

Kirkus wrote:
Clinch's intent is to probe the nature of evil. Mary and Huck briefly escape Finn's drunken reign of terror and are taken in by the Widow Douglas; Finn reclaims them and strangles Mary in her sleep, then skins her like a rabbit. Much later, Finn scribbles incriminating drawings on his walls; whether or not they show a conscience at work, they will lead directly to Finn's own murder by another black woman, his next intended victim. Despite needlessly confusing chronology, a memorable debut, likely to make waves.

This sounds a little explicit...can we talk about evil? Why did you think it was important as a topic? And what did you learn about evil from the writing process?

Also what would you say about their comment =needlessly confusing chronology, is it?

thanks
ziki
curious as always

Message Edited by ziki on 03-03-200706:33 PM

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[ziki]

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jonclinch wrote:
Hi, Ziki --

Don't you hate when the first reviews give everything away?

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I think that a good review has to be more than a plot summary. Don't worry, stay put,if I may say so. Once you let the book go there's no way you can control anything. See: kid 21, moved out, good bye, good luck. You just hold your fingers crossed and pray it all goes well. Not that I know, I just guess. LOL


I wait with the evil and we'll see where we can get with the topic during this month.
Thanks for your reply. I for one was wishing BN would pick up some spin offs for discussion, so I am glad they did.

As for Air Canada, I can't blame them for anything, it worked fine those times I flew with them. :-)

ziki

Message Edited by ziki on 03-05-200706:59 PM

[fanuzzir]

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jonclinch wrote: The kind of evil I was most interested in thinking about -- and writing, as we all know, is a kind of slow and reiterative thinking -- was, obviously, racism. I'll have more to say about that as we go, but it seems to me that the things about which we human beings tend to get most heated up are the things about which we have, at heart, conflicted emotions. Which led me in certain directions w/r/t Finn.



Jon, we have just finished reading Moby Dick and I had tried my best to keep the label "evil" at bay while discussing Ahab, if you can imagine it. Trying to define evil by working within and through a character was one of the most gratifying parts of that discussion.

Yes, racism. That chapter early in Huck Finn when he feels friendly towards his son and gives him the benefit of his world view. That is one of the scariest in the novel for me--the casual, the convivial, the conspiratorial way this man spews hatred at his son, and then the choice of this son for an adoptive father.

[jd]

Jon - I just starting reading Finn - wow -jd

[ziki]

Jon, I might not read your book now. How sad will it make you? CAn't be lethal, or?
I need to read HF first (maybe even Sawyer) and time's short, also I want a paperback. When does that come out, any idea?

I know from experience that it works this way, too, talk and read after: it just amounts to another kind of experience. Although if jd say "wow" I am not sure I can let it slide....

Actually writers could revisit 'old' forums when paperbacks come out, maybe BN gives it a thought.

ziki

Message Edited by ziki on 03-07-200706:39 PM

[jonclinch]

It'll break my heart, but I'll recover.

Trade paperback is scheduled for a year from now.

-- J

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ziki wrote:
Jon, I might not read your book now. How sad will it make you? CAn't be lethal, or?
I need to read HF first (maybe even Sawyer) and time's short, also I want a paperback. When does that come out, any idea?

I know from experience that it works this way, too, talk and read after: it just amounts to another kind of experience. Although if jd say "wow" I am not sure I can let it slide....

Actually writers could revisit 'old' forums when paperbacks come out, maybe BN gives it a thought.

ziki

Message Edited by ziki on 03-07-200706:39 PM

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[jd]

Ziki, I really mean WOW. I am so taken with the story line and the writing. It is dark and moody and good - jd

[ziki]

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jonclinch wrote:Trade paperback is scheduled for a year from now.

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Hmmmm.... they know what they're doing...it's a tad too long wait.

jd, I hear you loud and clear

ziki

[jd]

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ziki wrote:
Hi Jon,
I just step into it:

Kirkus wrote:
Clinch's intent is to probe the nature of evil. Mary and Huck briefly escape Finn's drunken reign of terror and are taken in by the Widow Douglas; Finn reclaims them and strangles Mary in her sleep, then skins her like a rabbit. Much later, Finn scribbles incriminating drawings on his walls; whether or not they show a conscience at work, they will lead directly to Finn's own murder by another black woman, his next intended victim. Despite needlessly confusing chronology, a memorable debut, likely to make waves.

This sounds a little explicit...can we talk about evil? Why did you think it was important as a topic? And what did you learn about evil from the writing process?

Also what would you say about their comment =needlessly confusing chronology, is it?

thanks
ziki
curious as always

Message Edited by ziki on 03-03-200706:33 PM

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Ziki - this was not an accident as you know... but i do feel it is worth the extra $$$ to keep this on your shelf. our world runs of profit and how often do you get to quote the author verbatim????? please reconsider.

[ziki]

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jd wroteZiki - this was not an accident as you know... but i do feel it is worth the extra $$$ to keep this on your shelf. our world runs of profit and how often do you get to quote the author verbatim????? please reconsider.

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jd , I am not sure I understand exactly how you mean here....
help ziks

[fanuzzir]

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jd wrote:
Ziki, I really mean WOW. I am so taken with the story line and the writing. It is dark and moody and good - jd

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I've really enjoyed it too, particularly the parts about "the boy," otherwise known as the hero of possibly the greatest American novel. To have Huck minimized to just a nameless secondary character means that we are looking at our country from the wrong end of a telescope; everything is wrong and backward.
Jon, did you admire "Devil in the White City"? There seems to be a great market for rediscovering these murderous characters from history.

[jonclinch]

What I remember most about "The Devil in the White City" is reading it while on jury duty, so my view may be a little skewed.

The reviewer in the Jackson, MS, newspaper yesterday morning noticed an important link between my work and the work of someone whose work I've always admired:

"Before publishing his novel, Clinch's earlier short stories were picked by John Gardner to appear in MSS magazine. Gardner, the late critic and novelist, is best known for his novel Grendel - a retelling of the Beowulf legend from the monster's perspective.

Fittingly, this is what Clinch does, too. His novel is Twain's story. Only it is told from the monster's perspective."

I can't figure out how to make a link, so this'll have to do...

http://www.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070308/ENT02/703080302/1264/ent

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fanuzzir wrote:

Jon, did you admire "Devil in the White City"? There seems to be a great market for rediscovering these murderous characters from history.

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[jd]

ziki - sorry it could be paint fumes on my part - so I mean the money you spend on the book is well worth having a discussion with the author about his book and being able to quote him verbatim. -jd

[ziki]

It's better to change the heading here as I was told by the lit editor back stage how inapropriate my post about the paperback was.Sorry Jon if you felt offended, it wasn't meant so.

The fact is that for me this "pre-discussion" like we were having here before enough people read a book served as a door.

I very much appreciated everybody's comments and it did for me more than having an editor trying to streamline my opinions.

I thought we can talk to the writer, not that we have to post approved promotional material.
More and more I get the feeling I just do not fit on this forum anymore. I just like to think freely.

Perhaps better not comment on this, it's a dead end.

ziki's dead, sometimes one drop is one drop too many.

Message Edited by ziki on 03-10-200704:00 AM

[fanuzzir]

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jonclinch wrote:
Clinch's earlier short stories were picked by John Gardner to appear in MSS magazine. Gardner, the late critic and novelist, is best known for his novel Grendel - a retelling of the Beowulf legend from the monster's perspective.

Fittingly, this is what Clinch does, too. His novel is Twain's story. Only it is told from the monster's perspective."

I

That's such a better comparison than the one I drew. I'm very upset that I didn't think of it myself. I think hearing Huck's story from the monster's point of view begs some important questions about Huck himself, and what we are seeing and hearing in his world. Surely Huck is no monster, but as Bill T suggested earlier, maybe it takes Jon's novel for us to see how dark and malevolent his life really is.

[ziki]

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jd wrote:
ziki - sorry it could be paint fumes on my part - so I mean the money you spend on the book is well worth having a discussion with the author about his book and being able to quote him verbatim. -jd

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Paint fumes? You are too funny. Toothless with a brush in hand and smiling, the literature lives on .

I have no problem with the book or author or Twain but with the alignment of all options. Thanks a lot for your prompt, I definitely appreciated it!

But we all are on different levels of reading this material (if I call it so) and I have no doubt the discussion will be valuable. I am on 101 level and I will not be able to follow this right from the start. I also think it is a pity a debut could fall between two chairs just because it is a sequal and requires me to read the other books first. If you ask my opinion the books should have been scheduled in a succession (having the add for Finn included from the start), the classic first and then Jon's book directly month after that. It would give him the biggest audience that he sure deserves.

So the rest was my cumbersome attempt to joke about it. It didn't land very well. Let me add the time factor will not hinder me from paying attention even if I might not be able to do it immediately on the spot, together with others here and use the splendid opportunity to talk to the writer directly which I from experience on BNU know is always fruitful. I trully regret that.


let's move on

ziki
painting walls today, but it is water based paint :-))
If I don't get the stellar ideas from it, I'll turn to oil based paint and that might cut to the chase ....of Twain.

CU
Soon it is Easter, I trust in ressurections of all kinds.

[jd]

Ziki - I too got dropped, but I was harsh and little too sarcastic. Hope you rethink this, you are one of my best springboards and I will sorely miss you.

[Choisya]

Ziki: I sympathise with you about not getting the book now and waiting for the paperback. As a pensioner, that is the position I am with regard to all books these days There are a number of discussions on these boards I would have liked to have participated in (Phillippa Gregory's for instance) but I couldn't afford the hardback. And I know that you have had the experience here of buying a hardback (was it The Thirteen Moons?) to discuss, only to find that the only person who 'turned up' for the discussion was the moderator.

And of course it isn't only pensioners who cannot afford hardback copies, but the low paid in general. Let us hope that books like Jons come back to B&N when they are also in paperbacks. Meanwhile I am sure the other better off folks here who have bought the hardback will enjoy their discussion with the author and I will just read-along..

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ziki wrote:
Jon, I might not read your book now. How sad will it make you? CAn't be lethal, or?
I need to read HF first (maybe even Sawyer) and time's short, also I want a paperback. When does that come out, any idea?

I know from experience that it works this way, too, talk and read after: it just amounts to another kind of experience. Although if jd say "wow" I am not sure I can let it slide....

Actually writers could revisit 'old' forums when paperbacks come out, maybe BN gives it a thought.

ziki

Message Edited by ziki on 03-07-200706:39 PM

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[ziki]

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jd wrote:
Ziki - I too got dropped, but I was harsh and little too sarcastic. Hope you rethink this, you are one of my best springboards and I will sorely miss you.

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jd, maybe it's a good time to quote M.Twain:

"The report of my death is an exaggeration"