For a Few Demons More (Spoiler Alert!!!)

[Silvarian_Lupus]

Again, a warning -- this thread contains spoilers about the last book...

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What is your theory behind Kisten's death?

General Facts I have gathered:
1) Kisten died undead (meaning he died twice)
2) Rachel woke up and didn't remember anything about Kisten's death.

Potential Conclusions:
A single bad guy is in the story with a memory potion -- Trent.

3) Piscary stated that Rachel was at Kisten's death and escaped. One undead vampire died while the other barely escaped with his life (Kisten is the only body found).
4) Jenks is in the house when Rachel wakes up with the bruises. She had escaped the scene and Kisten supposedly called.

Potential conclusions:
A) Is Jenks lying in this scenario to save Rachel, Ivy, or his family? Could Ivy have killed Kisten the second time to save Rachel? Could Rachel have killed Kisten the second time to save herself (remember the vow Rachel made to herself earlier in the book)? Could Trent or Quen have intervened to save Rachel? Did Jenks kill Kisten the second time (don't underestimate a pixie!!!).
B) Has Jenks memory been altered by a potion to make him think that Kisten called?

I don't really have any good suspects. I guess I'm just tired, but I'd like to hear what the rest of you think. (grins).

[sarahn1080]

Those are all good theories. Who knows, I just know that more happened at the scene than it looks like. I am pretty sure that Ivy didn't kill him...even though she isn't sure of that. It doesn't seem like something that she would do. I don't think that Rachel would do it either...no matter what. I think that Trent sounds like a good suspect, except that he was already responsible for the weres in the book so it sounds like too many if you add Kist in there too. And what reason would he have to kill him? Trent is a bit evil, but I don't think he is a mass murderer...is he? Only time will tell.

[Vampyre]

My first suspect was Dennon because he used a similar charm on Rachel earlier. Of course anyone can use these if they have the cash to pay for them. I don't think we have enough info to actually figure out who was involved in his death or why.

[Tygerlilylaka1]

There was discussion on another board/site that Skimmer was in Kisten's death. That she and maybe her old master had done it as a thankyou for getting Piscary out of jail. Lets face it, she hated Kisten and Rachel because they stood between her and Ivy. With both of them dead, poor Ivy would come to her for comforting and they could be one twisted family.


The part of me that watches too much CSI thinks the FIB should have collected samples from the boat and done DNA tests on everyone remotely connected. But where's the fun in that P

[sarahn1080]

That is a good theory about Skimmer...she did hate Kist and Rachel, so she could be responsible, especially if Rachel was supposed to end up dead too. Then Ivy would have had to come to her for comfort as you said. Have we learned much about other Vampires Skimmer is involved with yet? I would bet that there are other vamps she is involved with...good thinking!

[jlatn]

I have one more possibility: Al killed Kisten... If anyone has a reason to cause Rachel pain, it would be him. I'm a little fuzzy on the details, but we already know what a superb shape-shifter he can be...claws for him are not exactly a hard thing to conjure...

How would this be for another twist: Al was 'paid' by Rachel's ex-black magic boyfriend (whose name, thankfully, escapes me) to take Kisten out - something he would not be able to physically do. He would certainly not want to see Rachel happy and it isn't beyond all possibilities he would be willing to take on another mark for this request.

But, this is all just 'flights of fancy' from my own twisted little realities (yes, plural... ;-).

As for the possibilities my fellow bloggers have outlined, my gut tells me that Skimmer definitely has something to do with this. She has definite motive, as Sarahn1080 pointed out, and could definitely take Kisten in a fight. Piscary said he was a 'gift' to someone: who would Piscary most want to reward but his attorney, for his release from prison...

[sarahn1080]

Wow! Those are some really good ideas jlatn you have remembered a very important point! I forgot that Piscary said that, and you're right, who else deserves a reward but her? I am sure there is someone else I'm overlooking though...ever since I loaned my books to my aunt I am shaky on details and have nothing to look back to. I am always so excited to read the books the first time that I miss some of the little details and need to read them a second time.

[Vampyre]

I gave all my books to the library, including my Hollows books. I gueas I need to rebuy them.

Message Edited by Vampyre on 07-17-2007 03:27 PM

[Silvarian_Lupus]

Well, we can also throw in the idea that Rachel's car had some 'breakage'. Remember, she took the bus to the wedding for two reasons -- she was afraid that someone would pick her up and her car had some busted tale lights.

So far:
Dennon (actually sounds like a good suspect for the car, it is personal between them, and he does have an undead master).

Skimmer (Jealous, but was with Ivy throughout most of the book).

DeLavine (outside vampire, good way of reintroducing some other vampires, and he knows alot about pain medications to dull the senses because of his old underling vampire in Fist of Charms).

Trent (he is willing to kill and has access to drugs and the underground).

(grins) As for the rest of the suspects... such as Ivy, Rachel, and Jenks... well, I went with Jenks because of Maggie on the Simpsons. I never saw that one coming.

[jlatn]

Hmmm... Dennon... Didn't think about him. He is SUCH a creep, that TOTALLY makes sense! Excellent call out... Making me re-think some of the 'lesser' characters and giving me 'cause for pause'...

I love this!! Thanks!

But, ya' know: Kim is just sittin' back, eatin' her bon-bons (grin), laughing at all of us 'mere mortals' for our wasted 'flights of fancy' (bigger grin) - she already KNOWS what we can only make fuitless (and I'm sure a little sad, for her) guesses! LOL!!

[Vampyre]

I also feel Dennon is involved but not alone, I don't think he's bright enough or brave enough top do something like that without orders from someone.

[sarahn1080]

I agree that Dennon would need help or orders from someone else to attack anyone! He seems like such a pansy and is intimidated and afraid of Rachel. I think he would have to have someting on the line...but that he is an excellent suspect! I feel like a detective searching out the killer! Any guesses on who else could be involved along with him?

[KimHarrison]

You know it! (grin)
--Kim

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jlatn wrote:
[...]But, ya' know: Kim is just sittin' back, eatin' her bon-bons (grin), laughing at all of us 'mere mortals' for our wasted 'flights of fancy' (bigger grin)[...]

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[Silvarian_Lupus]

Side characters are great for murder and mayhem... look at what Al can do to a single city in a non-demon body. Wow, just thinking about the citizen flambe gets me smiling (okay, I do have an overactive imagination). On the other hand, Lee could have killed Kisten as well.

Remember, Kisten and Ivy lead the revolt against his business ventures with Rachel. Al may have given him some free reign to cause grief and sadness to Rachel (whom Lee hates with a passion) and humiliate Kisten by killing him. One thing that readers need to remember is that Rachel survived the encounter with whoever killed Kisten.

1) The murderer either did not want to kill Rachel (personal or professional reasons)
2) Or the murderer was severely injured in the process.

One question a reader must ask is why Kisten changed residences from Nick's apartment to his boat. Remember, Rachel fought to get out on the boat. Why would they choose a boat to fight in unless What advantage would water give them? Why would they leave Nick's apartment (unless an old vampire, demon, or Nick himself showed up as the bad guy).

Who is only part of the question behind this murder -- the other part is why Kisten's boat. Remember in every which way but dead how Rachel couldn't tap a line over water because she didn't have a familiar? Maybe they chose the boat to limit numbers and to limit potential spells and things. (shrugs) It is a thought.

[Sherri_Merryman]

Kim,
I have never written an author-ever. I am however an avid reader and truly enjoy your imagination and writing skills. But I am hoping that Kisten is not dead. Please let it be a spell where the dead guy just looks like Kisten. He is absolutely my favorite character of yours. This would be comparable to Sherrilyn Kenyon killing off Ash. It is inconceivable! Thank you so much for your books.
Take Care,
Sherri
and bring Kisten back!

[Beccerrr]

GAH! It absolutely broke my heart when Kisten died. I have a gut feeling that Newt may have had something to do it with. Probably because Minias had all those memory potions. ::nods:: He's also kinda creepy..in his own way.

[KimHarrison]

Hi Sherri,
I've heard that exact same wish from a lot of readers, that it just be someone who looked like Kisten and that Rachel made herself forget to protect him. It's a really good idea, but alas, it's not one that I'm going to follow. Kisten is really and truly dead. And I miss him. But don't give up hope for a new love. No one can replace Kisten, but Rachel will find another. He's going to throw poor Rachel for a loop. I can't wait for you to meet him.

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Sherri_Merryman wrote:
[...]I am hoping that Kisten is not dead. Please let it be a spell where the dead guy just looks like Kisten.[...]

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[jlatn]

Excellent points, Silvarian_Lupus! [evil, thoughtful grin] These details could definitely be very important clues... Who/Whatever did this, they didn't use magic from a ley line - unless, maybe they are able to store their power, much like Rachel and Ceri...using it when a line isn't available...? Do the demons have the same limitation - unable to 'work their magic' over water? I've read some old texts that have mentioned things like this...but, in this world, the rules don't always hold with legends of olde.

I'm thinking this has to be a combination of people who wanted to see Kisten dead and Rachel hurt (but not killed). I mean, who could hold Rachel back - she is QUITE powerful, when she has to be - and keep Kisten under control at the same time. If we add Jenks and Ivy to the mix of possible witnesses who tried to stop this from happening, we would need an army of demons and witches to keep all of them at bay! Unless the 'enemy' was from within, and caught them so off-guard, they weren't able to save everyone. Is there anyone that is missing from the timeline...? Someone that we know knew about what was happening with Kisten, but wasn't 'accounted for' during the same time of the memory loss? [small shrug]I can't think of anyone...

Can someone help me out here?

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Silvarian_Lupus wrote:
...1)The murderer either did not want to kill Rachel (personal or professional reasons)
2) Or the murderer was severely injured in the process.

One question a reader must ask is why Kisten changed residences from Nick's apartment to his boat. Remember, Rachel fought to get out on the boat. Why would they choose a boat to fight in unless What advantage would water give them? Why would they leave Nick's apartment (unless an old vampire, demon, or Nick himself showed up as the bad guy).

Who is only part of the question behind this murder -- the other part is why Kisten's boat. Remember in every which way but dead how Rachel couldn't tap a line over water because she didn't have a familiar? Maybe they chose the boat to limit numbers and to limit potential spells and things. (shrugs) It is a thought.

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[Sherri_Merryman]

Does anyone think Kisten will return in a future book?

[Stephanie]

Jamie,

For a horrible moment (while reading) I thought that someone had used Rachel to kill Kisten, and that was the reason for the memory charm. That really doesn't seem as though it makes sense though, does it?