How do you feel about Ivy and Rachel as a couple? *spoiler*

[sarahn1080]

I'm so glad I'm not alone in hating Skimmer's character! She seems like such a horrible woman! I can see why Ivy would be drawn to her though, she's strong while Ivy is not. She's Agressive while Ivy is passive. It is a classic example of opposites attracting...and she isn't horrible to look at which a Vampire really seems to appreciate. Knowing all that the only good she's ever done was to off the big Vamp...even so I don't like her!

[LoveKnots629]

LOL....Is this turning into the "What's the problem w/Skimmer" thread?

As I mentioned earlier, I don't want to see Ivy & Rache together romantically. Rache started realizing in FDM that she had b'ness to tend to and that Ivy had to save herself. I really hope that Kim will continue that line of thinking so they can each deal with their issues, especially their skewed views of relationships.

Enter Skimmer. Rotten, Rotten, Rotten. She's made huge contributions to Ivy's relationship issues!! I think she's using Ivy to raise herself up. If she can secure Ivy in a relationship, that would eventually make her a very powerful vamp. Skimmer's finesse with the paper cutter may have only served to speed up the inevitable.

I hope Rache B-slaps her back to the Turn!!

D

Message Edited by LoveKnots629 on 07-12-2007 07:03 PM

[TONIC]

Kim said on her site that Skimmer doesn't get what she wants. I'm question that means Ivy. I hate her too, but I have no problem with R&I having a romantic relationship. As Rachel always says: they work well together.

[sad_virtue]

I don't think Ivy and Rachel should be together. I think that Ivy needs to realize that its possible to love someone and trust them without there being a romantic relationship. Ivy needs to learn how to have a normal, healthy non-sexual relationships.

[TONIC]

I think that Ivy knows how to have a platonic relationship( look at her relationship with Kist) but she just wants to have more with Rachel. She has feelings for her and naturally wants Rachel to have those feelings too. That's just human nature(even though she's not human) you like someone, you want them to like you back.

[DestructoGirl]

It's implied that Ivy and Kisten were "not-platonic" in the early years of their relationship. She can't separate the sharing of blood without including sex into the mix. I don't think their relationship can go any further until Ivy learns that maybe she can share blood and be friends with someone without killing them. Maybe after she gets over that hurdle they could go further or maybe she'll realize that sex and blood might mess what they have up. It's going to be interesting to see what Kim puts them through to get their "happy" endings.

Hope that all makes sense

[Vampyre]

In the short story in Dates From Hell, it's more than implied I beleive.

[sarahn1080]

I think that Ivy just needs to change her perception of the whole blood/sex thing. Perhaps as she and Rachel explore the blood balance theory Rachel can teach her that rather than having sex involved there can be extreme closeness...maybe even a little cuddling or something. Who knows? Kim is very creative, and since Rachel is not letting the idea go they will need to try something...maybe more than one something

[Nikki_86]

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Destructogirl wrote:
It's implied that Ivy and Kisten were "not-platonic" in the early years of their relationship. She can't separate the sharing of blood without including sex into the mix. I don't think their relationship can go any further until Ivy learns that maybe she can share blood and be friends with someone without killing them. Maybe after she gets over that hurdle they could go further or maybe she'll realize that sex and blood might mess what they have up. It's going to be interesting to see what Kim puts them through to get their "happy" endings.

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I agree. Ivy needs to pass this hardship in her life. She needs to retrain herself of everything Piscary made her. It could be possible especially since

SPOILER!!!
SPOILER!!!
SPOILER!!!
SPOILER!!!

Piscary is now out of the Picture. His sick twisted hold is now gone and Ivy can now Try to share blood without the sex. But if Rachel is all for it (right now she doesn't seem to willing) then they can do whatever they please. As long as they don't lose their freindship.

[TONIC]

I think that Rachel is confused and scared of what it would mean if she and Ivy got romantically involved. She'll be questioning herself the whole time.

[-Shannon-]

well, in "my" perfect world, ivy and rachel would get together. however with that said, i think it would biff up the story. i just dont see them havong a relationship and a successful business. i can see "something" happening, but only to get to the next part of the story (if that makes sense) i cant wait to see what happens, either way i know ms. harrison will put it together beautifully :-)

~Shannon~

[vamp_rain]

Ok, I am all for the Ivy and Rachel as a couple. My only fear as I have read other place is that the tension that is there now will dissappear and the book will no longer be as good as the serious once was. But I do trust that Kim will do what she feels best, and I see my self reading her books for a long time.

~Spoiler~
Anyway onto my other topic. In her short story in Dates From Hell we learned who really start Ivy on wanting her to like who she was. I enjoyed the short scene in Ivy's office with Mia(the banshee sorry about spelling) pretty much telling her that she knew that Ivy hated herself and what she did. Also if you remember right she offered to live with Ivy and they could both live off each other, I don't really remember the details to this part of the conversation. Later on Kim mentioned on her site that Mia would be making an entrance into the main serious, so I believe that this will also cause problems just as Skimmer does.

The there is Skimmer, one moment I will like her and the next I was to kick her into a pool of holy water after I stake her. She tries to be nice to Rachel for Ivy's sake, but oviously it doesn't work out. ~SPOILER~ And part of me wants to believe that she is responsible for Kist's death. That is just my views on things.

Rain

[sarahn1080]

I also feel that Skimmer is not entirely innocent on the issue of Kist's death. I think that she really hated Ivy being with anyone else, especially Kist who apparently didn't like her since he called her by her real name which he knew would make her angry.

As far as Ivy and Rachel go...maybe if Rachel agrees to a relationship then Ivy will realize how wrong it would be for their friendship and will settle on a blood balance between friends...any other thoughts?

[TONIC]

Ivy has trouble separating sex from blood. If they try without sex, one of them could be seriously hurt. It'll most likely be Rachel because she can't hurt Ivy. And Ivy would never forgive herself if she killed Rachel. She'd probably kill herself.

[kaiyotea]

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TONIC wrote:
Ivy has trouble separating sex from blood. If they try without sex, one of them could be seriously hurt. It'll most likely be Rachel because she can't hurt Ivy. And Ivy would never forgive herself if she killed Rachel. She'd probably kill herself.

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Quite possible. After all we already saw this very thing happen once already in FOC when the two of them tried to share blood without sex. I suppose that we will have to wait and see if Piscary's death will have any effect on Ivy in this area.

[Stephanie]

Piscary's death should have a great deal to do with Ivy's future. After all, she's out from under and she ought to be able to take huge strides forward now. I think we'll probably see a vast improvement in her emotional wellness.

Group: Your thoughts?

[TONIC]

Remember when Kist mentioned that Ivy couldn't go more than 3 days without blood ever since she was made Piscary's scion? Maybe now that he's dead she go without blood a lot longer.

[Vampyre]

With Piscary's death, it seems to me there will be a vast vaccume in the supernatural power base. This may involve Ivy and the gang as they have to deal with a sudden rise in violence as various groups try to fill that hole.

With Piscary dead and Skimmer locked away for a while, Ivy should feel some relief though. She'll have more time to pursue her other goals and wish fulfillment.

[kaiyotea]

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Vampyre wrote:
With Piscary's death, it seems to me there will be a vast vaccume in the supernatural power base. This may involve Ivy and the gang as they have to deal with a sudden rise in violence as various groups try to fill that hole.

With Piscary dead and Skimmer locked away for a while, Ivy should feel some relief though. She'll have more time to pursue her other goals and wish fulfillment.

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Along this line of thought, I wonder how the regime change in the Cincinnati underworld will affect our heroes too.

Kim has said that the filling of the power vacuum will not be long and drawn out. I recall she said that there would just be a paragraph or two summarizing the events surrounding it and who came out on top. (If I am mistaken here Kim, please correct me.)

But something that Ivy said in FDM has been nagging at me. It was in Chapter 13 during the discussion/argument that Rachel and Ivy were having about finding a blood balance. To paraphrase, Ivy was telling Rachel that she had no idea what she was in for and then said to Rachel: “I’ve hurt people to keep you almost criminally innocent.” This struck me as odd, because since the first book when Rachel acquired her bites even though she has not been “claimed” by Ivy as a shadow or scion she has nominally been under her protection from other vampires in the area. Ivy has made it known that Rachel was off-limits. Also most just assume, as Skimmer did, that since they live together that Rachel must belong to Ivy.

But Ivy’s comment suggests that she has had to physically dissuade other vampires from trying to “claim” Rachel as theirs. And if this was happening when Ivy was Piscary’s scion and had his influence, both physical and political, behind her what could happen now if all Ivy has to back up her threat is…Ivy?

[TONIC]

Ivy has always been known to be a powerful vamp, I'm pretty sure that Rachel will be fine with just Ivy as protection. Besides, it looks like Ivy's mom has a good chance of being the master vamp.