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KathyS
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Re: Solarium - the rebuttal

TiggerBear wrote:

Hey Kathy (big hug)

 

I wish I had teachers in school who were as passionate about our history as you are.  I learned nothing...now I learn a lot!  I wanted to look more into what you said, but I ran out of time today...I have until Monday to see what else I (we) can dig up!  :smileyhappy:  I'm going to read, now...if I don't fall asleep first!

 

[[[[[hugs back]]]]]]

 

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TiggerBear
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Re: Solarium - the rebuttal

Ah it comes from being marginalized. When the history book in school just relate the iffy facts. You have to go digging.

 

8th grade it was State history, 1987-88 when was our text book published 1952. 75% of the book was out and out wrong. And when you ancestor's name gets mention in print yet the info is bad, it'll get one fired up. Not to mention a class of 90% non white and 0 coverage of the civil rites movement. Spent more time that year going "Ms. Nevile, sorry but that's wrong. On page...." (chuckle) Spent a couple of hours every Saturday looking up rebuttal documentation, for that week's syllabus book listings. Poor Ms. Nevile, I owe her much gratitude for all the grief I gave her.

 

 

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KathyS
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Re: Solarium - the rebuttal

I was wondering, Tigger, what states you grew up in.  I'm born and raised here in So. Cal, and I guess we had no need to question, or refute, the knowledge of the text books (or their writers).  Or at least I didn't, nor do I recall anyone of our class standing up and throwing doubts about them.  Also, growing up in the fifties, I guess we took the text books as gospel. 

 

It seems, anything that was written in history, at that time, is now changing by leaps and bounds.  More outspoken documentation, as well as people, concerning our national heroes and the messes that everyone seemed to want to hide. 

 

I wonder, sometimes, if it's because people are just plain tired of being lied to by our officials, people we put our trust in, and then seeing them  taken to task in the news medias, outing them. Transparency is apparently the word of the day.  

If you feel you want to make any comments to the articles I put in the Wordsmith Words, feel free.  That is everyone's forum.  Maybe we can interest more people to join in on talking about Andrew Jackson, and what happened during his time in office.  What do you think?  I'm not trying to push you into doing something you don't want to do, but I think you have a lot more intelligence and knowledge than the average "bear"....... :smileyhappy:  Although, Tigger was a Tiger!  A bounding-bouncing one, to boot!  How did you come up with your moniker?

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TiggerBear
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Re: Solarium - the rebuttal

 Durham NC, that heart of the triangle. Duke, Ecu, UNC Chapel Hill a hop step, Wake Forest, NCState the other hop. East side, known a Haiti due the the number of immigrants form the region. Mixed race area period due in part to foreign students at all the big collages. Yes the movie Bull Durham was based on my hometown minor league team. Typical for the guy taking you McDs order to have a PHD. Far too many highly educated people per job available. We had the Jamaican Crack stop over in the late 80tys early 90tys on it's way to NY; so a nasty crime rate. Mixed neighborhoods, not uncommon for a 2 mil dollar home to be 2 blocks away a skid row block. Lots of drug research in the triangle. Lots of research period. Big cultural center, the fall dance festival gets all the broadway in production shows, before NY does. Easy to take a master class with a profession dance troop leader, or broadway actor.

 

So schools with sometimes 30 different ethnicities, both public and private. Lots of friends with professors and grad students as parents. More than my share of off broadway, dance lessons, opera, ballet, acting classes, papers done with Duke library and UNC library resources, plenty of religions to study, and lots of listening to doctorate history thesis's.

 

A nice culturally diverse southern childhood.

 

Oh and you can blame it on my generations parents being of age during the 60tys. We don't trust the government, never have. And we all grew up convinced that between Regan and Russia someone was going to blow the world to smithereens.

 

Take Tigger, Pooh Bear, Padington bear, tigers, and bears; throw them in my mental blender and well you get me. Bouncy, weird, always trying to have fun, curious, pouncy, always thinking, and periodically a little grumpy; TiggerBear

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KathyS
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Solarium - Diversity, the spice of life!

Thanks, Tigger...I gotcha.....you've given me a lot more to see you with, my dear!  :smileyhappy:  You really have grown up amongst a lot more diversity than I have.  It sounds like a wonderful place, as far as the education around you to take advantage of; seeing all of these interactions, both good and bad is an education in itself.

 

I had lead a pretty sheltered life in the 40's and 50's, as far as society, non confrontational openness, verging on naiveté.  My personal life was another matter.

 

I knew no prejudices, though,...I didn't even know what the word meant.....but, I'm far from naive, just finding that there was so much more to learn, as an adult, than I had ever thought possible.   I just wasn't getting all I wanted in a classroom. Of course, at my age now, with kids in their 30's, I guess it's about time I grew into some sort of shoes that hopefully I can find to fit!  Maybe that's why I'm always asking those questions, wanting answers I may or may not find.  As a child, I was always afraid to speak up.  Things can, and do change over a lifetime!  I hope you're in a happy place, now, TiggerBear....sounds like someone I identify with!  Ha!  Although, I'm not as bouncy as I used to be!  The O.L.D. body won't allow it!  lol

 

Kathy

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dhaupt
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Re: Solarium - Diversity, the spice of life!

Hi Kathy and Tigger,

the thing that burns me up the most is our American History and how arrogant we are about it. If you look in any of the History books taught in our schools you won't find that information about Jackson, or the truth about the Trail of Tears or about how we treated Italian Germany and Japanese American Citizens during WW11, or we could talk about Hawaii and what we did to their culture. I think as Americans the first thing we should do is apologize to every one for our upper handed, superior and unwarranted attitude.

When I first started coming on the boards here there were a lot of people from other countries who when finally opened up on the different clubs and got to know each other finally started being honest about how they really felt and I heard the same thing so many times, how they were afraid to speak their piece because of how one sided and arrogant and bullheaded Americans tend to be. And with the explosion of the internet and how much information is now available, I hope every school aged child with a computer looks on the internet or goes to different sites to find out about things and not just believe the propaganda put in our school books.

 

Thanks for bringing this up

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dulcinea3
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Re: Solarium - Diversity, the spice of life!

I still can't get over that book of true cat ghost stories that I read that had one named Tigger Bear!  You might remember my mentioning it at the time (maybe a few years ago?).  Quite the coincidence!

 

I was in that NC area sometime in the 80s a few times, taking training classes at SAS.  We checked out Duke's campus - just gorgeous!  I am one to be impressed by a lovely campus; I chose Colby because its pictures looked good in its catalog before I even knew if it suited me academically.  Duke looks like a medieval fairy tale.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Grand Dame of the Land of Oz, Duchess of Fantasia, in the Kingdom of Wordsmithonia; also, Poet Laureate of the Kingdom of Wordsmithonia
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TiggerBear
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Re: Solarium - Diversity, the spice of life!

 

dulcinea3 wrote:

I still can't get over that book of true cat ghost stories that I read that had one named Tigger Bear!  You might remember my mentioning it at the time (maybe a few years ago?).  Quite the coincidence!

 

I was in that NC area sometime in the 80s a few times, taking training classes at SAS.  We checked out Duke's campus - just gorgeous!  I am one to be impressed by a lovely campus; I chose Colby because its pictures looked good in its catalog before I even knew if it suited me academically.  Duke looks like a medieval fairy tale.

 

 

 

Hmm West campus Duke, very medieval stoneworks. When it rains it looks like a hollow gothic movie. Duke is spread all over the city though. About 80 years ago they started eating all the smaller collages around. So now it's West, East, North, Forest, New ect... All look pretty but with different perceptions.

 

And yes I do remember you telling me about the ghost cat.:smileyhappy:

 

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KathyS
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Re: Solarium - Diversity

[ Edited ]

Debbie, I know what you're saying about getting the facts straight with our history, and our obnoxious behavior, the American way for some. 

 

I thought about this fact finding situation, and how it's put into books.  History starts in the schools at a very young age....up through collage level.  I honestly can't remember that far back, to give any facts on what I learned.   I'm assuming I learned something, though~ lol

 

I only know when I got to college, it was all about remembering names and dates...nothing excited me to learn anything about our history.  I think, too, it has a lot to do with the person teaching these facts, as well. Giving facts in books is one thing, and it's another thing to interpret those facts.  I've know people who were politically swayed, and differed with the books. 

 

A lot happened during these early years, during the settlements,  that were just interpreted badly, when the big issue was patriotism. No one wanted to say anything derogatory about a president, for sure.  And during those 1800's, the view of our country was not the same.  The view of an Indian or a black person was not the same.  The view of immigration, and land development, and even the animals were taken for granted, especially the buffalo.  Things and people were destroyed without a thought.  Because they looked at it two ways.  One, it wasn't important, and two, it had to be profitable. 

 

The white settlers came in and simply took.  There were language barriers, even within the settlers, not counting the Native Americans. and trying to understand their way of life.  Anything that was foreign was not always treated kindly, to say the least.  Greed hit the land as soon as two feet stepped off the boat!

 

So, I would imagine, even if these facts are written in our history books today, it has to be interpreted so everyone can understand that that period of time was how a majority of people thought.  The majority of people, now, can't understand the discrepancies, because we don't all think and believe the same as those people thought then.  I'm not making excuses, I'm just pointing out the differences between then, and now.  Moral issues should always be seen, but it appears that the existence of it back then, was not of the upper most of concern.  Yes, our country was founded upon a Christianity, but even that was interpreted differently then.

 

The history of today, looked back on from two hundred years from now, will also be different.  And who will be writing the books, then?

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dhaupt
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Re: Solarium - Diversity

Thanks Kathy, you make great points. And just to re-stress the value of reading even fiction which is the genre of my choice, when I read Sandra Dallas's Tall Grass is what really started me looking at how we treated certain people during the war. During the discussion of that book in the General Fiction club we were sent to many different sites provided by different commenters and I learned so much from them.

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KathyS
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Re: Solarium - Diversity

Thanks, Debbie.  I think it's great that we can learn from fiction.  Those kinds of discussions, I love, where people are willing to talk about things like our history, or any thing that is related to what people live/lived through.  We learn a lot from each other when. as we've said before, the atmosphere is one of giving, not taking.

 

I'm on the Fiction board right now, and I'm about given out!  lol  You know I love to talk...but talking to myself so much isn't a good thing, I don't think!  Have you ever seen my mind explode?  My head is starting to swell, as I speak!  It's oozing this funny looking 

Green stuff right now....I think it's called B.S.!  Help!
green slime drips Royalty Free Stock Vector Art Illustration
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TiggerBear
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Re: Solarium - Diversity

[ Edited ]

For anyone interested in the subject, rent the documentary "The People Speak". It's a nice presentation of the writing of popular historical dissident speakers, narrated by a few actors with corresponding images. It'll dip your toes in the history that didn't make it into the history book waters.

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KathyS
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Re: Solarium - Diversity

Thanks, TB....I'll look into it...I've gotta run....talk later!

TiggerBear wrote:

For anyone interested in the subject, rent the documentary "The People Speak". It's a nice presentation of the writing of popular historical dissident speakers, narrated by a few actors with corresponding images. It'll dip your toes in the history that didn't make it into the history book waters.

 

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dhaupt
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Re: Solarium - Diversity

 

TiggerBear wrote:

For anyone interested in the subject, rent the documentary "The People Speak". It's a nice presentation of the writing of popular historical dissident speakers, narrated by a few actors with corresponding images. It'll dip your toes in the history that didn't make it into the history book waters.

 

Thanks for the reference, I'll have to give it a look see.

 

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KathyS
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Solarium - Becke and others

Every month I'm going to try to start a new thread for that month...this month it's March Madness.  Next Month will be April (whatever)...a calendar of event topics for that month.

 

But within that thread, everything that is happening in the Kingdom, whether you create it, or I do, you need to follow the header discussion, or go back to the top of that  Original thread (March Madness, etc.) and write in your own scenario topic..(like a Chapter title in a book)....that way, when several things are going on at once, in that particular month, we can keep the discussion(s) flowing....if the post is out of context, it disrupts the conversational flow...do you know what I'm talking about?  Not everyone comes to these boards every day, and to open a post up that has no relevance to the header topic "title"...you're left scratching your head....and if you don't quote the person you're talking to, who knows what your post is referring to...

 

Becke, as an example.... I know you've got a thread going right now, (your apology to Paul thread) on your mystery board, and it is free wheeling, impromptu party stuff....and that's great, if that's how you and everyone on there want it...but being the picky person that I am about keeping things organized.....(and we do sometimes have several story dialogues going on at the same time that actually do make sense), even if they are silly, and meant to be silly...it does follow a relatively logical train of thought.  I get on your board thread, and I am totally lost as to what is going on.  Like I said, if you want this disjointedness, that's fine.  But for me, It's like jumping into a room full of schizophrenics.  :smileyhappy:

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KathyS
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Re: Solarium - Becke, I apologize

[ Edited ]

Becke, I just realized what that post in the Com Room, and here, must sound like to you and everyone else....and to me.  It's really not pick on Becke day, and I'm not trying to use you as the classroom dunce...gads...It has to be me, not you.  I feel picky..Irritated.... You're too nice to be picked on...  I hope you haven't taken this as a criticism in any way, shape or form....I know you're nature, and I've taken advantage of that, today....I'm sorry...

 

I'm getting off these boards, now....I'm still frustrated over the Fiction board...I've given all I can give to it, and Stephanie posted a ton more questions last night, far too many questions from the publisher, none of her own, and if she does pose a question to me, that ends the discussion, with me having the last word......she's the mod, and won't play as a participant, there is no give and take, and that leaves it all up to me....why should I continue, if nobody else is playing...who do I base my opinions on?...that doesn't make sense to me.  :smileysad:   Reminds me of the old Ilana struggles...back to feeling used...used up is probably more like it.

 

I think I've taken my frustration out on you, my way of taking my control back...that's not fare to you...Forgive me?

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TiggerBear
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Re: Solarium - Becke, I apologize

Well I have to log off now. And since last time I did this I was blocked from returning for 3 days. I more than a little aprehensive. Yes I know everyone had those problems, but no that doesn't make me feel better, it makes me feel worse. I enjoy chatiing with friends and others on here. And this not really knowing when you be able to return makes any serious discussion akward at the very least. (long sigh)

 

Well fingers crossed, I'll be back.:smileywink:

 

 

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KathyS
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Re: Solarium - In and Out of here

TiggerBear wrote:

Well I have to log off now. And since last time I did this I was blocked from returning for 3 days. I more than a little apprehensive. Yes I know everyone had those problems, but no that doesn't make me feel better, it makes me feel worse. I enjoy chatting with friends and others on here. And this not really knowing when you be able to return makes any serious discussion awkward at the very least. (long sigh)

 

Well fingers crossed, I'll be back.:smileywink:

 

 

Yes, I know what you're saying.  Logging off yesterday, I wasn't sure what to expect today.  This evening I got right on...something good comes our way.....but I see some of the titles are not showing up beside their names, like the admins..... and the happy smiles...something had to go, I guess.  Ha!

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TiggerBear
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Re: Solarium - In and Out of here

Well after logging off a hour ago once again I could not get back on. Was on the level of not trying till tomorrow night, gave it one last try and here I am. (shakes head) It's messing with my head.

 

Why is one try different even though one does the exact same thing?

 

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KathyS
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Re: Solarium - In and Out of here

Hi Tigger, I finally got on this morning...sluggishly.....I wasn't able to sign in at all, yesterday. That's a first for me.  Usually something gives, eventually, but not yesterday.  I gave up in the afternoon, since I had my grandkids here, I wasn't going to be on the computer anyway.

 

But before I got offline, I sent an email to the Lithium company and told them the problems, and wondered if it was "their" problem, or B&N's.  Who's ever it is, I told them it was a mess and to do something about it.  Now my stupid Outlook Express email program isn't receiving email because of my server!  The last time this happened, it was a virus that hit Outlook, at the server's end, and it took them a couple of days to get rid of it.  It didn't give me the virus, but it's annoying either way.  If it isn't one thing, it's another!  Hope things are okay on your, and everyone else's end!