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vivico1
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Re: Early Chapters Discussion: Circumstances


suetu wrote:

Stephanie wrote:
Do you think any driver could have this kind of accident under the right (or exactly wrong) circumstances? Does your answer mirror your opinion of people who make huge, consequential mistakes in other parts of their lives?




You know, I think the very concept of what we understand to be an accident shows that this could happen to anybody. Well, except me. I take public transportation.

And if you believe that things in life happen that are true accidents--and certainly that is sometimes the case--well, I don't know that you can legitimately extrapolate anything about the perpetrator or their life.


Susan, this could happen to you tho, even on public transportation, you might just be on the other end of the hit, or someone you love, if someone hits your PT.

What bothers me too is, have you ever noticed with drunk drivers especially, they hit people or cars and kill people but they are the ones who live, often even walk away! Part of that is their body is so relaxed from the alcohol that they roll with the hit and dont tense up and break all the bones. That and what is the correlation with drinkers and big trucks or vehicles! lol, but there seems to be one! And while I am on a roll here, lets take the elderly who still drive in those big caddies that protect the heck out of them but they cant see over the steering wheel or reach the pedals! I think there should be an age where you have to take the drivers test over again, not the paper one, the driver one and put the elderly in small cars, not so they arent protected mind you LOL but so they can see over the steering wheel (not through it!) and we can see someone driving, not the top of a head and they can reach the pedals! I think if they are in cars they can see out of and handle, there will be less accidents there too. They are really good at slamming on the gas and driving into stores! That seems to be their specialty. DONT take their license, we are all going to need ours one day, just get them in something they can control. Not a bad idea about teens too. Ok, here endeth my editorial rant lol :smileywink:

As for your second part Susan, about extrapolating a persons life from this type of situation or accident, I agree with you, thats why I mentioned that I wasnt sure what that part of the question even meant.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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kiakar
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Re: another tragic story



MissMandy wrote:
I recently watched a show on Dr. Phil about this young, beautiful girl that was a habitual texter while driving. She had already went up on a curb and damaged her car, almost hit an oncoming car and I belive had received a ticket for swerving while driving because of texting or something. They put her through a simulated driving test and made her text the whole time. I think you had to get like a 90% to pass the test - she got a 10! The whole show she just sat up there with this little smirk on her face while Dr. Phil preached to her about how dangerous it was and how she could kill herself or someone else. He brought on a young man that struck and killed an elderly man while texting on his cell phone. This young man pleaded with her that it is best to pull over or simply wait because killing someone and having to sit in a courtroom was no comparison to getting the latest gossip on your cell phone. She still was not convinced. She had a "it won't happen to me" attitude. To play into the dynamics of the story with Leigh and Kara, I found it so interesting that her mother had not simply taken away this girls phone!! She seemed almost scared of making her daughter mad or having her daughter upset with her. When Dr. Phil asked her if she was going to take the phone away and she said yes, the daughter shot her this " I will hate you forever" look and you could literally see her mother back down. I think as parents we want so much to make our kids happy, we will sacrifice what is most important - their safety. But you always here that one famous line when something tragic happens..."I never thought it could happen to me."





MissMandy; Thanks for your post. It is so true! How can we ever convince teenagers they are not invincible! I guess its impossible for most but sometimes you can get through, I guess you just have to continue to try. I know I do with my grandchildren and I did with my children. Sometimes it will work and I know there are other times they fill invincible also.
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kiakar
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Re: another tragic story



Wrighty wrote:

MissMandy wrote:
I recently watched a show on Dr. Phil about this young, beautiful girl that was a habitual texter while driving. She had already went up on a curb and damaged her car, almost hit an oncoming car and I belive had received a ticket for swerving while driving because of texting or something. They put her through a simulated driving test and made her text the whole time. I think you had to get like a 90% to pass the test - she got a 10! The whole show she just sat up there with this little smirk on her face while Dr. Phil preached to her about how dangerous it was and how she could kill herself or someone else. He brought on a young man that struck and killed an elderly man while texting on his cell phone. This young man pleaded with her that it is best to pull over or simply wait because killing someone and having to sit in a courtroom was no comparison to getting the latest gossip on your cell phone. She still was not convinced. She had a "it won't happen to me" attitude. To play into the dynamics of the story with Leigh and Kara, I found it so interesting that her mother had not simply taken away this girls phone!! She seemed almost scared of making her daughter mad or having her daughter upset with her. When Dr. Phil asked her if she was going to take the phone away and she said yes, the daughter shot her this " I will hate you forever" look and you could literally see her mother back down. I think as parents we want so much to make our kids happy, we will sacrifice what is most important - their safety. But you always here that one famous line when something tragic happens..."I never thought it could happen to me."



I saw that episode too and I wanted to reach through the TV and smack that girl! And her mother! They didn't get it at all. The girl had an excuse for everything and she was so proud that she was texting while driving. The mother claimed she didn't know some of the things that were going on. I think the daughter had already been stopped by the police for something but I can't remember the details. She had already had 2 or 3 minor fender benders and she hadn't even been driving a year. The mother did not want to say that she would take that phone away. Dr. Phil and the audience kept pressuring her until at the end of the show she finally, kind of said OK she would. It was pretty obvious she won't. I hope they watch the tape of the show when they get home and see how stupid they were. I also hope he does a follow up show on them and it's about good news. If something happens to her daughter after all of the warnings she's had, how would she ever be able to live with herself?




You know, Wrighty, sometimes they say after a show has aired and you see it yourself, like you are the one on TV that you see it for real. You realize some truths that other people see. So hopefully this woman will really comphrehend what Dr. Phil and the audience was saying when she views it.
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erinmarks
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Re: Early Chapters Discussion: Circumstances

Hi! I finally have enought time to respind to the book and to read part of it. I just started student teaching at a high school and have taken several education and developmental psychology courses over the summer for my grad school program. Teenagers think they are invincible because they have to...they are wired that way. Their brain chemistry doesn't allow for them to fully process the consequences of their actions. It is disturbing to think at times all the responsibilities that are put on them when their minds really aren't fully developed at that point, and won't be until they are about 20. Also, in the past 10 days after leaving the high school parking lot to head home at the end of the school day I have seen 2 car accidents involving students!! 2!! In 10 DAYS!! Nuts! This isn't even that big of a town, and the areathat the school is in is slightly outside the downtown area, so there aren't even that many lights or stop signs!! To the comment about the smaller size of cell phones, I would also consider that when the phones were larger there were less people using them, so any accidents with the phones involved were probably too few to draw attention to. With music in the car, studies have shown that it helps PREVENT accidents. I amsure that if it is blasting it might be counter productive, though.
I definitly see anyone who drives committing this type of fatal mistake. All it takes is the perfect storm. What if you are paying perfect attention, and you were to look to miss one thing and consequently hit another when your attention was dawnto the first issue? Humans are fallable. Which leads to the answer of the second question. I wouldn't give someone as much slack with a mistake outside of a car, since most other decisions offer a little moe processing time, but still...we all fall at some time, we just have to pray that we break as little vases as possible on the way down.
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Wrighty
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Re: Early Chapters Discussion: Circumstances


erinmarks wrote:
Hi! I finally have enought time to respind to the book and to read part of it. I just started student teaching at a high school and have taken several education and developmental psychology courses over the summer for my grad school program. Teenagers think they are invincible because they have to...they are wired that way. Their brain chemistry doesn't allow for them to fully process the consequences of their actions. It is disturbing to think at times all the responsibilities that are put on them when their minds really aren't fully developed at that point, and won't be until they are about 20. Also, in the past 10 days after leaving the high school parking lot to head home at the end of the school day I have seen 2 car accidents involving students!! 2!! In 10 DAYS!! Nuts! This isn't even that big of a town, and the areathat the school is in is slightly outside the downtown area, so there aren't even that many lights or stop signs!! To the comment about the smaller size of cell phones, I would also consider that when the phones were larger there were less people using them, so any accidents with the phones involved were probably too few to draw attention to. With music in the car, studies have shown that it helps PREVENT accidents. I amsure that if it is blasting it might be counter productive, though.
I definitly see anyone who drives committing this type of fatal mistake. All it takes is the perfect storm. What if you are paying perfect attention, and you were to look to miss one thing and consequently hit another when your attention was dawnto the first issue? Humans are fallable. Which leads to the answer of the second question. I wouldn't give someone as much slack with a mistake outside of a car, since most other decisions offer a little moe processing time, but still...we all fall at some time, we just have to pray that we break as little vases as possible on the way down.



It is scary to think about how little responsiblilty we sometimes expect from drivers. We have more cars than ever, that go faster than ever but we can still drive so young. It's not that I think teens shouldn't drive, I couldn't wait to get my license, but we don't always provide the best instruction or the safest conditions. In my town the kids can only take Driver's Ed. in the summer since there aren't enough teachers for all of the requests. If you miss or are late only one time you can't finish the course. How dumb is that? And then you can't take it again until the next summer because they won't pay any teachers to teach it during the school year. It costs too much. Most of the kids don't bother to take it again. We need more instruction not less.
That's interesting that music is suppose to help prevent accidents. Although listening to it probably isn't so much of a problem as changing CDs, changing stations - anything that can distract the driver. We all need to be more careful while driving but that's sometimes hard to think about when you're 15 or 16.
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Bonnie824
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Accidents can happen in a car or anywhere else and are accidents.

I do agree with many posters that people need to be more focused in a car, and in their lives basically; but accidents will happen. I think it makes people feel safer to find a reason someone or something is to blame. Then if they don't do that, horrible things won't happen in their own lives or their childrens. But they will. Driving is dangerous, hiking is dangerous, climbing tree, swinging, swimming. Accidents will happen.
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IBIS
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Re: Accidents can happen in a car or anywhere else and are accidents.

Accidents do happen, that's why we call them accidents.

But we must be careful about saying that there's little or nothing we can do to prevent them from happening. That accidents will and can and sometimes absolutely have to happen is an extreme idea. No one really believes that.

On the other hand, anticipating and preparing for the eventuality of possible accidents --being pro-active about preventing them from happening -- is the smartest, and the most realistic approach.

Having Kara be a responsible, morally centered teenager is a marvelous theme that makes the whole novel work. The story presents a situation that's clear of recklessness. If Kara were irresponsible and uncaring, the entire point of this moral dilemma would be diluted. And frankly, not very interesting.
IBIS

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kiakar
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Re: Accidents can happen in a car or anywhere else and are accidents.



IBIS wrote:
Accidents do happen, that's why we call them accidents.

But we must be careful about saying that there's little or nothing we can do to prevent them from happening. That accidents will and can and sometimes absolutely have to happen is an extreme idea. No one really believes that.

On the other hand, anticipating and preparing for the eventuality of possible accidents --being pro-active about preventing them from happening -- is the smartest, and the most realistic approach.

Having Kara be a responsible, morally centered teenager is a marvelous theme that makes the whole novel work. The story presents a situation that's clear of recklessness. If Kara were irresponsible and uncaring, the entire point of this moral dilemma would be diluted. And frankly, not very interesting.




IBIS, your post is so true. We should listen carefully when accidents are reported and the reason for them, so we might can prevent something similiar. Whether we will or not, its true, we might not, but then that is that chance we can think of a past occurence an dmaybe prevent another mistake. There are so many ways to make errors on the highway, any help is needed to make us aware of the alertness we need at all times we are behind the wheel. That is why its so hard on young teens driving. They are at the age to make alot of mistakes, still maturing, thinking they know it all and all that. But we have to keep pushing them to safety until they get older and wiser.
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Wrighty
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Re: Accidents can happen in a car or anywhere else and are accidents.


IBIS wrote:
Accidents do happen, that's why we call them accidents.

But we must be careful about saying that there's little or nothing we can do to prevent them from happening. That accidents will and can and sometimes absolutely have to happen is an extreme idea. No one really believes that.

On the other hand, anticipating and preparing for the eventuality of possible accidents --being pro-active about preventing them from happening -- is the smartest, and the most realistic approach.

Having Kara be a responsible, morally centered teenager is a marvelous theme that makes the whole novel work. The story presents a situation that's clear of recklessness. If Kara were irresponsible and uncaring, the entire point of this moral dilemma would be diluted. And frankly, not very interesting.



Kara was very responsible and seemed mature beyond her years. The accident aged her even more. And her accident could have happened to anyone. People glance into the back seat all of the time. Driving is a huge responsibility but I don't think it's very often looked at that way. I think we often regard it as our right and our way of life. Education for everyone could help us to be better drivers and to remember to be more aware, to be offensive and defensive, to protect ourselves as much as possible. The hard part seems to be finding programs that work and will capture our attention. Unfortunately, the shock factor (graphic videos, victim's presentations, etc.) seems to get to us more than quoting facts and figures. But how many people remember and apply it rather than forgetting it soon after?
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IBIS
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Re: Accidents can happen in a car or anywhere else and are accidents.

Kiakar and Wrighty
You're both absolutely right that everyone -- parents as well as teenagers -- need to be constantly on the alert. We all need a constant ALERT because we're all human, and we forget.

Because nothing happened to us yesterday, we think our odds of getting into accidents becomes lower. We forget that every day, every time we get behind the wheels, our chances of getting into an accident always remains the same -- 50%.

And we forget that most accidents happen within a 5-mile radius of our own home. I know that I get a bit careless when I'm closer to home. I think the worst is over. I'm almost home, I don't have to pay such close attention. I don't know why I think so, but it must be the fake re-assurance that I'm home and nothing really bad can happen to me.
IBIS

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Stephanie
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Re: Accidents can happen in a car or anywhere else and are accidents.

I have found myself being a much more careful driver lately... has anyone else seen that in themselves?

I think, were our characters real people, there would be a large number of the population of Danby setting their cell phones aside while behind the wheel, and paying a whole lot more attention to their driving. I know that I have this book in mind when I'm in the car, especially when taking "just a quick trip" to shop nearby, and find myself reaching for my cell to check if we need this or that at the store. I'm thinking twice now, and realizing it's just as easy to call when I actually get to my destination.
Stephanie
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kiakar
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Re: Accidents can happen in a car or anywhere else and are accidents.



IBIS wrote:
Kiakar and Wrighty
You're both absolutely right that everyone -- parents as well as teenagers -- need to be constantly on the alert. We all need a constant ALERT because we're all human, and we forget.

Because nothing happened to us yesterday, we think our odds of getting into accidents becomes lower. We forget that every day, every time we get behind the wheels, our chances of getting into an accident always remains the same -- 50%.

And we forget that most accidents happen within a 5-mile radius of our own home. I know that I get a bit careless when I'm closer to home. I think the worst is over. I'm almost home, I don't have to pay such close attention. I don't know why I think so, but it must be the fake re-assurance that I'm home and nothing really bad can happen to me.




You know IBIS; this should teach us alot about other things in our life. We are never promised tomarrow and we are never perfect in anything. closer to home or not, we must realize we are volunable human beings who error and error and then again. Always we need to stay on the alert, keeping that brain focued on the Wheel!
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kiakar
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Re: Accidents can happen in a car or anywhere else and are accidents.



Stephanie wrote:
I have found myself being a much more careful driver lately... has anyone else seen that in themselves?

I think, were our characters real people, there would be a large number of the population of Danby setting their cell phones aside while behind the wheel, and paying a whole lot more attention to their driving. I know that I have this book in mind when I'm in the car, especially when taking "just a quick trip" to shop nearby, and find myself reaching for my cell to check if we need this or that at the store. I'm thinking twice now, and realizing it's just as easy to call when I actually get to my destination.




You are right Stephanie: I have thought about this book also lately when I drive. I think I am being careful more so now. It is so strange how our minds work! I guess that is why auto accidents will never be stopped all together. We are too flawed! Mistakes will always happen. But we need to keep trying and trying and some more.
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Wrighty
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Re: Accidents can happen in a car or anywhere else and are accidents.

[ Edited ]

Stephanie wrote:
I have found myself being a much more careful driver lately... has anyone else seen that in themselves?

I think, were our characters real people, there would be a large number of the population of Danby setting their cell phones aside while behind the wheel, and paying a whole lot more attention to their driving. I know that I have this book in mind when I'm in the car, especially when taking "just a quick trip" to shop nearby, and find myself reaching for my cell to check if we need this or that at the store. I'm thinking twice now, and realizing it's just as easy to call when I actually get to my destination.



I have been more aware too. I think about this book all of the time when I'm driving. Maybe that will be another good result of your book Laura. You may have actually prevented an accident by giving us such a powerful story.

Message Edited by Wrighty on 10-25-2007 12:51 AM
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cindersue
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Re: another tragic story

[ Edited ]
When Dr. Phil asked her if she was going to take the phone away and she said yes, the daughter shot her this " I will hate you forever" look and you could literally see her mother back down. I think as parents we want so much to make our kids happy, we will sacrifice what is most important - their safety. But you always here that one famous line when something tragic happens..."I never thought it could happen to me."


Many parents need to grow up and start being parents. Too many parents don't want to disappoint their children. There comes a time with teenagers, the rebellious stage especially, where we can't be their "friends," we have to be their parents.

Edited by Admin. for formatting only.

Message Edited by Jessica on 10-25-2007 03:56 PM
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Stephanie
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Re: another tragic story



cindersue wrote
There comes a time with teenagers, the rebellious stage especially, where we can't be their "friends," we have to be their parents.



Excellent point. My son is rapidly approaching that stage, and I am doing everything I can not to throttle him! :smileyhappy: He talks about making his own decisions, but at not-quite-twelve, he also realizes that he doesn't really want all the freedom he's asking for.

Twelve. All downhill from here, right? :smileyvery-happy:
Stephanie
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cindersue
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Re: another tragic story


Stephanie wrote:


cindersue wrote
There comes a time with teenagers, the rebellious stage especially, where we can't be their "friends," we have to be their parents.



Excellent point. My son is rapidly approaching that stage, and I am doing everything I can not to throttle him! :smileyhappy: He talks about making his own decisions, but at not-quite-twelve, he also realizes that he doesn't really want all the freedom he's asking for.

Twelve. All downhill from here, right? :smileyvery-happy:





LOL, Stephanie. It may seem like downhill, but they do grow up and mature and think, heck, mom and dad aren't so stupid after all. hehehe In my family, two down, two to go. :smileywink:
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Stephanie
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Re: another tragic story

At least my old kids (24 and 22) are past all this: "When am I going to be allowed to..." - of course, now they say, "Why didn't I enjoy it while I was being taken care of!" LOL.
Stephanie
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