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vivico1
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Re: Hangzhou and West Lake


bentley wrote:
http://chineseculture.about.com/library/gallery/hangzhou/pages/blgwlake02.htm


Theres the one Bentley :smileywink: ty
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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bentley
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Re: Chinese Gardens in China and the World

This url is terrific:

It shows photos of all of the major Chinese Gardens in China (most well-known) as well as those designed in other parts of the world.

http://www.chinapage.com/general/garden/garden.html
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Fozzie
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Re: Yu Yuan Garden in Shanghai

Beautiful! I don't think I have ever seen any gardens like it.

I especially enjoyed the "expensive rock!" We have lots of rocks here in Maine, but none like that! Cool!
Laura

Reading gives us someplace to go when we have to stay where we are.
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Fozzie
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Re: Some pretty good pictures of Suzhou Gardens, etc.

Beautiful! I love how the rock paths look so natural, like they were carved right from the rock. I was also wondering why so much water with lily pads was included until I read it used to be a swamp.
Laura

Reading gives us someplace to go when we have to stay where we are.
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Fozzie
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Re: Hangzhou and West Lake

Aaaah! The Chen family villa!
Laura

Reading gives us someplace to go when we have to stay where we are.
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bentley
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Re: Tang Xianzu

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vivico1
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Not China but Siam

I know this is not about China and not trying to compare Asian cultures, I dont know how they compare. But, tonight I was watching Jodie Foster's Anna and The King. Have any of you seen it? Do you remember it? Yes I loved the King and I too,the Yule Brenner one but I really liked this non musical version Jodie did of the true story. What I was noticing while watching it tonight, I had bought it when I found it on sale, was just how beautiful the places were that they filmed it. I loved that the first time I saw it.

This time, I looked at some of the buildings, of the palace, and the parts that I would call the pavilions on the water's edge, where they did things like at one point watch a play performed. I thought about Peony and her home and it all seemed so lovely. I want to check the credits on this and see where it was filmed, they really do look like the pavilions we see on some of those links. Two things in the movie made me think of this book, (taking a break from the movie for a minute so may be more lol) One is about death. In the movie remember how the King loved the little daughter of his,probably the best of all 68 children including the prince, and how affectinate he was to her? Remember how you never see this affection shown openly to the main wife,she is always just standing by the children. Well do you remember that the little girl gets very sick and is dying and he calls for Anna to come because the little girl is so attached to her. They tell her the little girl is dying and you hear the men who line the halls on their knees chanting prayers. This one man who is bringing Anna to them and tell her about it, says, they have begun already, they are sending up prayers to her to remind her to go to heaven. He says, this is why you must not cry when you see her, show no sadness, if you do, her spirit will see it and become attached to the sadness and stay here trying to be a comfort, you must let her go on. I don't know if that is truly what they say or do, her version was supposed to be researched. But I find that an awefully loving way to look at it and caring about the dead. Her father the king, does not show any sadness, he holds the little girl in his arms, while the mother is still off to the side in the room, in her place I guess, and he smiles at his little girl as she dies. When she is gone, then he cries over her body, holding her one last time and then gets up and leaves. The next thing you see is many down at the water at dusk sending off little boats of leaves and flowers (not wooden i dont think) all with candles in them, as they go out in the tide, hundreds of them. They never say why or what it meant but it was visually touching.

The other thing I thought about in the story, which was a big deal and I remembered it, how one who thinks their culture is so superior can inadvertantly cause such pain to another in their haste to fix things. Remember the king took one young girl to wife who was in love already. She had no choice (sound familiar? :smileywink:) In this version, I dont remember how it came about in the musicals, but in this one the young man sends her love letters but then sends her one saying, I cant have you so I must follow Buddha and his teachings so I am dedicating my life to him. He becomes a monk, she is desperate, nd cuts her hair and dresses as one too, to go and be with him, they are caught and of course the punishment is death for such a thing. Anna hears, feels responsible, runs into the court and proceeds to scream her protests, understandable, to the king, who tells her to stay out of it and leave but she tells him what he MUST do! In her haste, she has now condemned them for sure because A king can never be told by a woman what he MUST do, even tho he has valued her advice on things before. She doesnt trust the customs, she is angry and scared and she inadvertently caused what she was afraid was going to happen. The king tells her after their deaths,that he had a plan, he could have done something, sell her back to her family, to the young man, something but because she didnt trust him and stormed in on traditions she didnt understand, she left him with no choice, only the one he did not want to make, or he would not be seen as king to do anything else now that this woman had stood and TOLD him what he MUST do.

I thought about that a lot. I think the movie does a good job too of not only showing the love of a family, the life of Anna (cant remember her last name) who went there, but also at times, sometimes more subtlety how as a "modern english" she thought her ways better, even tho she thought the king was a fine man and he was. Its there in the way she explains some things to her son, not in a mean way at all but in what she thinks of is an enlightened way. I have to admit. Of the two characters, the young woman who had no choice and Anna who does. I think I would have been both. I think I would have been the young woman trying to escape my fate for one of my chosing and lose my head for it and I think I would have been Anna, screaming out of fear and rage without thinking first of what my actions might cause in another culture. It is a bit humbling.

Anyway, even if its a very romanticized version of the true story, I think it was better than the musicals in making you feel things and man, is the scenery beautiful! Chow Yun-Fat aint bad scenery either lol :smileywink: . I have liked him as an actor anyway and thought he was perfect for the part. Did any of you see it when it came out?
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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kiakar
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Re: Not China but Siam



vivico1 wrote:
I know this is not about China and not trying to compare Asian cultures, I dont know how they compare. But, tonight I was watching Jodie Foster's Anna and The King. Have any of you seen it? Do you remember it? Yes I loved the King and I too,the Yule Brenner one but I really liked this non musical version Jodie did of the true story. What I was noticing while watching it tonight, I had bought it when I found it on sale, was just how beautiful the places were that they filmed it. I loved that the first time I saw it.

This time, I looked at some of the buildings, of the palace, and the parts that I would call the pavilions on the water's edge, where they did things like at one point watch a play performed. I thought about Peony and her home and it all seemed so lovely. I want to check the credits on this and see where it was filmed, they really do look like the pavilions we see on some of those links. Two things in the movie made me think of this book, (taking a break from the movie for a minute so may be more lol) One is about death. In the movie remember how the King loved the little daughter of his,probably the best of all 68 children including the prince, and how affectinate he was to her? Remember how you never see this affection shown openly to the main wife,she is always just standing by the children. Well do you remember that the little girl gets very sick and is dying and he calls for Anna to come because the little girl is so attached to her. They tell her the little girl is dying and you hear the men who line the halls on their knees chanting prayers. This one man who is bringing Anna to them and tell her about it, says, they have begun already, they are sending up prayers to her to remind her to go to heaven. He says, this is why you must not cry when you see her, show no sadness, if you do, her spirit will see it and become attached to the sadness and stay here trying to be a comfort, you must let her go on. I don't know if that is truly what they say or do, her version was supposed to be researched. But I find that an awefully loving way to look at it and caring about the dead. Her father the king, does not show any sadness, he holds the little girl in his arms, while the mother is still off to the side in the room, in her place I guess, and he smiles at his little girl as she dies. When she is gone, then he cries over her body, holding her one last time and then gets up and leaves. The next thing you see is many down at the water at dusk sending off little boats of leaves and flowers (not wooden i dont think) all with candles in them, as they go out in the tide, hundreds of them. They never say why or what it meant but it was visually touching.

The other thing I thought about in the story, which was a big deal and I remembered it, how one who thinks their culture is so superior can inadvertantly cause such pain to another in their haste to fix things. Remember the king took one young girl to wife who was in love already. She had no choice (sound familiar? :smileywink:) In this version, I dont remember how it came about in the musicals, but in this one the young man sends her love letters but then sends her one saying, I cant have you so I must follow Buddha and his teachings so I am dedicating my life to him. He becomes a monk, she is desperate, nd cuts her hair and dresses as one too, to go and be with him, they are caught and of course the punishment is death for such a thing. Anna hears, feels responsible, runs into the court and proceeds to scream her protests, understandable, to the king, who tells her to stay out of it and leave but she tells him what he MUST do! In her haste, she has now condemned them for sure because A king can never be told by a woman what he MUST do, even tho he has valued her advice on things before. She doesnt trust the customs, she is angry and scared and she inadvertently caused what she was afraid was going to happen. The king tells her after their deaths,that he had a plan, he could have done something, sell her back to her family, to the young man, something but because she didnt trust him and stormed in on traditions she didnt understand, she left him with no choice, only the one he did not want to make, or he would not be seen as king to do anything else now that this woman had stood and TOLD him what he MUST do.

I thought about that a lot. I think the movie does a good job too of not only showing the love of a family, the life of Anna (cant remember her last name) who went there, but also at times, sometimes more subtlety how as a "modern english" she thought her ways better, even tho she thought the king was a fine man and he was. Its there in the way she explains some things to her son, not in a mean way at all but in what she thinks of is an enlightened way. I have to admit. Of the two characters, the young woman who had no choice and Anna who does. I think I would have been both. I think I would have been the young woman trying to escape my fate for one of my chosing and lose my head for it and I think I would have been Anna, screaming out of fear and rage without thinking first of what my actions might cause in another culture. It is a bit humbling.

Anyway, even if its a very romanticized version of the true story, I think it was better than the musicals in making you feel things and man, is the scenery beautiful! Chow Yun-Fat aint bad scenery either lol :smileywink: . I have liked him as an actor anyway and thought he was perfect for the part. Did any of you see it when it came out?




Wow: Vivian, that really sounds good! So it was a movie?
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vivico1
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Re: Not China but Siam

[ Edited ]
kiakar wrote:
Wow: Vivian, that really sounds good! So it was a movie?



yes, like I said, it was the movie ANNA AND THE KING, produced by and starring Jodie Foster from a few years back. I just found a link about it for you and it seems it was Banned in Thailand for its historical inaccuracies but its a remake of the Musical The King and I, just not a musical and taken from Anna's own diaries and other sources but still, its a story, part true, part fictional so it was banned. Was a wonderful movie tho. Here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_and_the_King

and heres a slideshow of some pictures of the movie, good but too bad not as many of the palace and surrounding area

http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0166485/1-3.jpg.html?path=gallery&path_key=0166485&seq=24&

dont you remember the previous movies, The King And I?

Chow Yun-Fat was also in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, loved that movie too!

Message Edited by vivico1 on 09-12-2007 09:56 PM

Message Edited by Jessica on 11-01-2007 11:44 AM
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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bentley
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Re: Not China but Siam

[ Edited ]

vivico1 wrote:
kiakar wrote:
Wow: Vivian, that really sounds good! So it was a movie?




yes, like I said, it was the movie ANNA AND THE KING, produced by and starring Jodie Foster from a few years back. I just found a link about it for you and it seems it was Banned in Thailand for its historical inaccuracies but its a remake of the Musical The King and I, just not a musical and taken from Anna's own diaries and other sources but still, its a story, part true, part fictional so it was banned. Was a wonderful movie tho. Here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_and_the_King

and heres a slideshow of some pictures of the movie, good but too bad not as many of the palace and surrounding area

http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0166485/1-3.jpg.html?path=gallery&path_key=0166485&seq=24&

dont you remember the previous movies, The King And I?

Chow Yun-Fat was also in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, loved that movie too!

Message Edited by vivico1 on 09-12-2007 09:56 PM




Yes I have seen them both..and loved Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon

Message Edited by Jessica on 11-01-2007 11:44 AM
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vivico1
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Aung San Suu Kyi

I dont know if any of you know who this Nobel laureate for peace is, but she is definitely a woman who has cried out when her world is not at peace. She has been detained for the past 11 years. The first link is a recent story of Monks gathering to go past her house which is off limits, in a show of support and the second tells a bit more about her with a slideshow of pics too. Just something someone may find interesting.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070922/ap_on_re_as/myanmar_41


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/1950505.stm
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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Fozzie
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Re: The Septembers of Shiraz

Lisa, I just finished The Septembers of Shiraz yesterday. I noticed prior to reading it that advanced praise comments from you appear on both the front and back of the book jacket. The author will be on this B&N forum in October and I am eager to talk with her.

In this discussion of Peony in Love, we talked a lot about how the book affected us emotionally. Well, ladies, if you want to talk about emotions, read The Septembers of Shiraz! Whew and wow! It was a tough book to read at times, difficult in the way that reading A Thousand Splendid Suns was, but a very good book.

Lisa, I agree with you about it's timelessness. It is timely and timeless at the same time.
Laura

Reading gives us someplace to go when we have to stay where we are.
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LisaSee
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Re: The Septembers of Shiraz



Fozzie wrote:
Lisa, I just finished The Septembers of Shiraz yesterday. I noticed prior to reading it that advanced praise comments from you appear on both the front and back of the book jacket. The author will be on this B&N forum in October and I am eager to talk with her.

In this discussion of Peony in Love, we talked a lot about how the book affected us emotionally. Well, ladies, if you want to talk about emotions, read The Septembers of Shiraz! Whew and wow! It was a tough book to read at times, difficult in the way that reading A Thousand Splendid Suns was, but a very good book.

Lisa, I agree with you about it's timelessness. It is timely and timeless at the same time.




I liked the Sepetmbers of Shiraz a lot. I think there will be a lot to discuss with that book.
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cindersue
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Re: Footbinding


bentley wrote:
On Lisa See's site there was a reference to footbinding and the following urls. Very amazing; it may be difficult for some to see. Be forewarned.

http://hvattum.net/index.php/2007/05/19/chinese-foot-binding

An interview, etc. (NPR) Excellent insight.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=8966942&sc=emaf




Oh my goodness. Now that I see the pictures, it's worst than I imagined. :smileysad:
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cindersue
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Re: Not China but Siam



kiakar wrote:


vivico1 wrote:
.... I was watching Jodie Foster's Anna and The King. Have any of you seen it? Do you remember it? ...




Wow: Vivian, that really sounds good! So it was a movie?




I loved The King and I. I haven't watched the newer version. I'm glad you mentioned it ... now I will go rent it. I enjoyed the book so much and loved the historical aspects written into the story. ')
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KPL
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Re: Not China but Siam

I'm not totally sure, but I think the current king of Thailand is the grandson of the "little kid" in The King and I. Remember that scene when Yul Brynner was dying and handing over the responsibilities to him?
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kiakar
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Re: Not China but Siam



KPL wrote:
I'm not totally sure, but I think the current king of Thailand is the grandson of the "little kid" in The King and I. Remember that scene when Yul Brynner was dying and handing over the responsibilities to him?





For real?
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KPL
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Re: Not China but Siam

When we were in Bangkok a year and a half ago, they were celebrating his 78th birthday and 60 years on the throne—they just love him to pieces. The whole city was basically festooned in yellow banners—when I asked why, they told me that he had been born on a Tuesday, and yellow is "Tuesday color." I thought that was a fun little thing to know. Another thing that I thought was neat was that in his celebratory birthday speech, he declared that the custom of criticism of the royal ways, etc., would no longer be prohibited—people now can, but it has to be constructive. Yay!

If you feel like it, look up images of the "Emerald Buddha" on Google. You'll see pix of a little tiny Buddha on a really high altar. It honestly has a "seasonal" wardrobe made of fabric, and the king himself climbs up all the stairs to change the outfits!!!
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kiakar
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Re: Not China but Siam



KPL wrote:
When we were in Bangkok a year and a half ago, they were celebrating his 78th birthday and 60 years on the throne—they just love him to pieces. The whole city was basically festooned in yellow banners—when I asked why, they told me that he had been born on a Tuesday, and yellow is "Tuesday color." I thought that was a fun little thing to know. Another thing that I thought was neat was that in his celebratory birthday speech, he declared that the custom of criticism of the royal ways, etc., would no longer be prohibited—people now can, but it has to be constructive. Yay!

If you feel like it, look up images of the "Emerald Buddha" on Google. You'll see pix of a little tiny Buddha on a really high altar. It honestly has a "seasonal" wardrobe made of fabric, and the king himself climbs up all the stairs to change the outfits!!!




Wow! Thanks KPL for these facts and tidbits. I love the yellow for Tuesday thing. I wonder how we could find out the other days of the week colors. That sounds like fun.
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bentley
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Re: Not China but Siam



kiakar wrote:


KPL wrote:
When we were in Bangkok a year and a half ago, they were celebrating his 78th birthday and 60 years on the throne—they just love him to pieces. The whole city was basically festooned in yellow banners—when I asked why, they told me that he had been born on a Tuesday, and yellow is "Tuesday color." I thought that was a fun little thing to know. Another thing that I thought was neat was that in his celebratory birthday speech, he declared that the custom of criticism of the royal ways, etc., would no longer be prohibited—people now can, but it has to be constructive. Yay!

If you feel like it, look up images of the "Emerald Buddha" on Google. You'll see pix of a little tiny Buddha on a really high altar. It honestly has a "seasonal" wardrobe made of fabric, and the king himself climbs up all the stairs to change the outfits!!!




Wow! Thanks KPL for these facts and tidbits. I love the yellow for Tuesday thing. I wonder how we could find out the other days of the week colors. That sounds like fun.




Kiakar..to answer your question: the following url gives the colors for each day of the week. The fellow who answered KPL gave her/him a little bit of incorrect information, they do love their king very much but he was born on a Monday and yellow is Mondays color..in fact they loved him so much that they started even wearing yellow shirts and ran out of shirts of that color. Here is a wonderful url which gives some details etc.

http://www.icfj.org/worldaffairs/WAFstories/coasttocoast-p8.pdf

It is interesting to note that if you wear the right color for the day and you are not Thai, then they might say that this is the right color for you; if you are Thai they will feel that you are very sensitive and are doing things in good taste. People over 40 do not like black (think it should only be worn at funerals) and under 40 think the color is trendy: of course we are talking about Thailand here and not China..where in Mau's square there is a sea of young Chinese people all wearing black and you rarely see any bright colors any more.

The traditions are very interesting and fun to know.
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