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LisaSee
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Re: Author's Note and Acknowledgements - SPOILER



vivico1 wrote:

LisaSee wrote:




I'm the exact same way. I love to savor books, unless they're bad. Then I skip huge sections! Actually, here's how I read a book -- every book -- the first chapter, the last chapter, the second chapter, the penultimate chapter. I can't enjoy a book unless I know how it's going to end. Isn't that terrible?


LISA!!! shame on you! lol, reading the last chapter after the first??? :smileywink: but seriously, doesnt that spoil it for you? Or are you a "I want it and I want it now" kind of person lol, just kidding. I so worry about someone telling me the end of a book that I worry about these clubs, when they dont have good threads, of people posting spoilers. I think everyone is doing great that way in this club tho. Actually, in a way, I have enjoyed this more without a mod than with one, tho, thats due mostly to your patience with us and posting for us too and for everyone in here who posted their own threads or questions.

Remind me not to read a "who done it" with you, if you're reading the last chapters before the buildup lol. Lisa, so many things are so much better with an initial interest, a little preview of things to come, some BUILDING of excitement and wonder...and then, um well, the climax! :smileyhappy: Arent BOOKS wonderful things!




I can't sleep, eat, or do anything if I don't know how everything and everyone is going to turn out. I've been this way since I first started reading chapter books as a little kid. I know it's bad! But here's the thing: I think it's made me a better writer. When I know the end, I can relax and not only enjoy the book but also see how the author strucured it. What did he or she reveal when? How did he do it? To me the pacing, what's revealed, how characters and plot develop are fascinating. As I said, I've learned a lot for my bad practice.

And another upside is that if I don't like the begining and I don't like the end, I don't have to read the middle. I remember with you, Vivico, that you weren't so sure you wanted to continue reading Peony in Love. You didn't like the begining all that much. If you'd read the last chapter early on, you might have decided you truly didn't want to finish it or you might have decided, "I have to figure out how she got from here to there." I hate reading on and on -- giving more and more of my time -- to a book I don't like. But even for the ones I don't like, I need to know how everything worked out for everyone.
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vivico1
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Re: Author's Note and Acknowledgements - SPOILER


LisaSee wrote:



I can't sleep, eat, or do anything if I don't know how everything and everyone is going to turn out. I've been this way since I first started reading chapter books as a little kid. I know it's bad! But here's the thing: I think it's made me a better writer. When I know the end, I can relax and not only enjoy the book but also see how the author strucured it. What did he or she reveal when? How did he do it? To me the pacing, what's revealed, how characters and plot develop are fascinating. As I said, I've learned a lot for my bad practice.

And another upside is that if I don't like the begining and I don't like the end, I don't have to read the middle. I remember with you, Vivico, that you weren't so sure you wanted to continue reading Peony in Love. You didn't like the begining all that much. If you'd read the last chapter early on, you might have decided you truly didn't want to finish it or you might have decided, "I have to figure out how she got from here to there." I hate reading on and on -- giving more and more of my time -- to a book I don't like. But even for the ones I don't like, I need to know how everything worked out for everyone.


Ok Lisa, as a writer, I can see how this might be a beneficial way to read stories. So I will give you a break for that lol. :smileywink: As for me, if I am at the first of a book, or the middle and dont know if I want to continue with it or not,like I was with this one, if I had stopped where I didnt think I liked it, and then read the end,I wouldn't have read the rest of the book. I would just have said to myself, ok good, something came out of that, thats all i want to know and left it at that. I have to take the journey straight through and feel a book as it develops or I wont read a whole book, never have. But see, I want to feel it fully as I read, I want my emotions to change as new secrets are revealed. I lost some of the emotion of the book, if I know how it ends. I may be calmer about them lol, if I did it that way, knowing everyone and everthing is ok, but I missed my own emotional journey of discovery, about the book, about myself, if I do. Interesting how different people read huh? OH, I will say tho, I do read magazines back to front LOL. I dont know why, but I do. Sometimes I will read the table of contents if I am limited on time and pick something but when I have all the time I need, I read them back to front.

Oh, by the way, this one line,"I can't sleep, eat, or do anything if I don't know how everything and everyone is going to turn out."... sounds like anticipatory anxiety, I know I suffer from it in a big way about everything....but reading I guess huh? :smileywink: no, i just read faster if i feel that way sometimes lol.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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Wrighty
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Re: DISCUSSIONS FOR PART III (Page 198 to end) Please use page spoiler warnings too


LisaSee wrote:
Sometimes I think it's comlicated because we wish such big and wonderful things for our daughters. We want them to have everything that we had or and/or everything we didn't have. But just because we want that doesn't mean that that's what our daughters want. They need to grow up and find thir own paths. As a daughter myself, I know I did. Not suprisingly -- and I bet a lot of you will have had the same experience -- the older I've become, the more I've understood my mother and what she wanted for me. I've also come to want those things too. But back in the teen years --- look out!



You're exactly right Lisa. It's hard to find that balance for our daughters and sons. You want them to have everything but you also want them to work for it and appreciate it. And it's so hard to let them go, even just to college. My oldest just started and I'm proud, happy and want him to love it but I also miss him and can't believe how fast he has grown up. It's the next chapter of his life and maybe eventually he'll start to realize I knew what I was talking about most of the time! Although I think I was little older than that when I figured it out about my mom.

There's an expression that says something about how our parents know a lot when we're little, don't know much as we're growing, don't know anything when we're teens, start getting a little smarter when we're in our twenties and then are incredibly bright again as we age. How true!
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LisaSee
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Re: DISCUSSIONS FOR PART III (Page 198 to end) Please use page spoiler warnings too



Wrighty wrote:

LisaSee wrote:
Sometimes I think it's comlicated because we wish such big and wonderful things for our daughters. We want them to have everything that we had or and/or everything we didn't have. But just because we want that doesn't mean that that's what our daughters want. They need to grow up and find thir own paths. As a daughter myself, I know I did. Not suprisingly -- and I bet a lot of you will have had the same experience -- the older I've become, the more I've understood my mother and what she wanted for me. I've also come to want those things too. But back in the teen years --- look out!



You're exactly right Lisa. It's hard to find that balance for our daughters and sons. You want them to have everything but you also want them to work for it and appreciate it. And it's so hard to let them go, even just to college. My oldest just started and I'm proud, happy and want him to love it but I also miss him and can't believe how fast he has grown up. It's the next chapter of his life and maybe eventually he'll start to realize I knew what I was talking about most of the time! Although I think I was little older than that when I figured it out about my mom.

There's an expression that says something about how our parents know a lot when we're little, don't know much as we're growing, don't know anything when we're teens, start getting a little smarter when we're in our twenties and then are incredibly bright again as we age. How true!




You've been holding out on us about your son going away to college. Is he your youngest? Are you an empty nester now? The whole process was very hard for me. But some wonderful things have come out of it. Oh, and that expressionn is dead on right!
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LisaSee
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Re: DISCUSSIONS FOR PART III (Page 198 to end) Please use page spoiler warnings too

My question may have gotten lost in the other responses, so I'd like to float it out here too. The Chinese believe in fate, destiny, and fortune. What do you think is the difference between them?
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LisaSee
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Re: DISCUSSIONS FOR PART III (Page 198 to end) Please use page spoiler warnings too

Dr. Zhou seems to be the voice of persistent doubt, always voicing his opposition to The Peony Pavilion, and to women’s scholarship on the whole. Do you think Dr. Zhou was based on a real person? How do you think I intended for him to function within the narrative?
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LisaSee
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Re: DISCUSSIONS FOR PART III (Page 198 to end) Please use page spoiler warnings too

What do you think Peony meant when she said, “My whole life had been about going in” (p. 103)? And how did that change (or not) in the course of the book?
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LisaSee
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Re: DISCUSSIONS FOR PART III (Page 198 to end) Please use page spoiler warnings too

Early in Peony’s story she reads the following phrase, printed on a couplet in her father’s library: “Do not care about fame. Be modest. In this way you will be found by others to be special.” In what ways did Peony – in life and in her afterlife – reflect the virtues extolled by this phrase?
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LisaSee
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Re: DISCUSSIONS FOR PART III (Page 198 to end) Please use page spoiler warnings too

As promised, I've thrown out a few new questions to carry us through the last few days. When I was touring for Peony in Love, I did a fantastic radio interview in Kansas City. The woman asked me about all of my books and had me read excerpts from them. She picked up a theme -- one that I have to admit that I hadn't noticed -- in all of my books: the way that secrets can cause love to be lost. Certainly secrets play a huge part in Peony in Love. I don't know what my question is here, but I think there could be something to discuss with this idea. Could it be said that even today in our own relationships that it's secrets that cause the most harm? And yet, I've often heard that many wives would rather their husbands keep an affair a secret. What they don't know won't hurt them.
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kiakar
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Re: DISCUSSIONS FOR PART III (Page 198 to end) Please use page spoiler warnings too



LisaSee wrote:
As promised, I've thrown out a few new questions to carry us through the last few days. When I was touring for Peony in Love, I did a fantastic radio interview in Kansas City. The woman asked me about all of my books and had me read excerpts from them. She picked up a theme -- one that I have to admit that I hadn't noticed -- in all of my books: the way that secrets can cause love to be lost. Certainly secrets play a huge part in Peony in Love. I don't know what my question is here, but I think there could be something to discuss with this idea. Could it be said that even today in our own relationships that it's secrets that cause the most harm? And yet, I've often heard that many wives would rather their husbands keep an affair a secret. What they don't know won't hurt them.




I think this is the most dreadful thing to ever comphrehend happening to women! I do not know what a man feels with this betrayal. I have experienced it and its something, a hurt that is so deep that you never fully recover from it. I do not hold animosity for my former husband or his lover at the time, but the whole, it still has dentation marks through it. I guess that is why women say that, they feel they can't live through it or what a hell it would be for them. It is the most unforgiveable thing you can do. It's that sacred bond husband and wife have, and when its broken, disregarded, its like a earthquake hitting your heart tearing it all to bits and scattering it so far you can't ever find all the pieces to put it back together. For days, weeks and some months I hardly ate, in 2 months I had lost 30 lbs from only drinking iced tea or coffee and nothing to eat. Food made my throat close up. And it did feel like my heart really did break in a million pieces, it hurt so extremely bad.Those vows are taken more sacred most of the time, with women, more so than with men, maybe with cheating men that is. When its broken, its pure aching for a long time.
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vivico1
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Re: DISCUSSIONS FOR PART III (Page 198 to end) Please use page spoiler warnings too


LisaSee wrote:
As promised, I've thrown out a few new questions to carry us through the last few days. When I was touring for Peony in Love, I did a fantastic radio interview in Kansas City. The woman asked me about all of my books and had me read excerpts from them. She picked up a theme -- one that I have to admit that I hadn't noticed -- in all of my books: the way that secrets can cause love to be lost. Certainly secrets play a huge part in Peony in Love. I don't know what my question is here, but I think there could be something to discuss with this idea. Could it be said that even today in our own relationships that it's secrets that cause the most harm? And yet, I've often heard that many wives would rather their husbands keep an affair a secret. What they don't know won't hurt them.


At the request of Lisa ,we have posted this question and the other new ones she had for us today on their own separate threads for all to join in on if they would like without worry of the Part III advisory. If any would like to answer, could you do so there. Its fine if you do here too, but we have threads just for them now too. thanks guys :smileywink:

Please see THE COST OF SECRETS thread for this question.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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vivico1
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Re: DISCUSSIONS FOR PART III (Page 198 to end) Please use page spoiler warnings too


LisaSee wrote:
Early in Peony’s story she reads the following phrase, printed on a couplet in her father’s library: “Do not care about fame. Be modest. In this way you will be found by others to be special.” In what ways did Peony – in life and in her afterlife – reflect the virtues extolled by this phrase?


At the request of Lisa ,we have posted this question and the other new ones she had for us today on their own separate threads for all to join in on if they would like without worry of the Part III advisory. If any would like to answer, could you do so there. Its fine if you do here too, but we have threads just for them now too. thanks guys :smileywink:

Please see the, FAME,MODESTY and BEING SPECIAL thread for this question.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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vivico1
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Re: DISCUSSIONS FOR PART III (Page 198 to end) Please use page spoiler warnings too


LisaSee wrote:
What do you think Peony meant when she said, “My whole life had been about going in” (p. 103)? And how did that change (or not) in the course of the book?




At the request of Lisa ,we have posted this question and the other new ones she had for us today on their own separate threads for all to join in on if they would like without worry of the Part III advisory. If any would like to answer, could you do so there. Its fine if you do here too, but we have threads just for them now too. thanks guys :smileywink:

Please see the, LISA QUESTION: GOING IN? thread for this question.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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vivico1
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Re: DISCUSSIONS FOR PART III (Page 198 to end) Please use page spoiler warnings too


LisaSee wrote:
My question may have gotten lost in the other responses, so I'd like to float it out here too. The Chinese believe in fate, destiny, and fortune. What do you think is the difference between them?


At the request of Lisa ,we have posted this question and the other new ones she had for us today on their own separate threads for all to join in on if they would like without worry of the Part III advisory. If any would like to answer, could you do so there. Its fine if you do here too, but we have threads just for them now too. thanks guys :smileywink:

Please see the, FATE,DESTINY AND FORTUNE thread for this question.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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LisaSee
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Re: DISCUSSIONS FOR PART III (Page 198 to end) Please use page spoiler warnings too



kiakar wrote:


LisaSee wrote:
As promised, I've thrown out a few new questions to carry us through the last few days. When I was touring for Peony in Love, I did a fantastic radio interview in Kansas City. The woman asked me about all of my books and had me read excerpts from them. She picked up a theme -- one that I have to admit that I hadn't noticed -- in all of my books: the way that secrets can cause love to be lost. Certainly secrets play a huge part in Peony in Love. I don't know what my question is here, but I think there could be something to discuss with this idea. Could it be said that even today in our own relationships that it's secrets that cause the most harm? And yet, I've often heard that many wives would rather their husbands keep an affair a secret. What they don't know won't hurt them.




I think this is the most dreadful thing to ever comphrehend happening to women! I do not know what a man feels with this betrayal. I have experienced it and its something, a hurt that is so deep that you never fully recover from it. I do not hold animosity for my former husband or his lover at the time, but the whole, it still has dentation marks through it. I guess that is why women say that, they feel they can't live through it or what a hell it would be for them. It is the most unforgiveable thing you can do. It's that sacred bond husband and wife have, and when its broken, disregarded, its like a earthquake hitting your heart tearing it all to bits and scattering it so far you can't ever find all the pieces to put it back together. For days, weeks and some months I hardly ate, in 2 months I had lost 30 lbs from only drinking iced tea or coffee and nothing to eat. Food made my throat close up. And it did feel like my heart really did break in a million pieces, it hurt so extremely bad.Those vows are taken more sacred most of the time, with women, more so than with men, maybe with cheating men that is. When its broken, its pure aching for a long time.




I'm so sorry. And I aplogize if what I wrote triggered bad memories. Thank you for sharing your life with us. I know I'm humbled by it as I am by all brave women.
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LisaSee
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Re: DISCUSSIONS FOR PART III (Page 198 to end) Please use page spoiler warnings too



vivico1 wrote:

LisaSee wrote:
As promised, I've thrown out a few new questions to carry us through the last few days. When I was touring for Peony in Love, I did a fantastic radio interview in Kansas City. The woman asked me about all of my books and had me read excerpts from them. She picked up a theme -- one that I have to admit that I hadn't noticed -- in all of my books: the way that secrets can cause love to be lost. Certainly secrets play a huge part in Peony in Love. I don't know what my question is here, but I think there could be something to discuss with this idea. Could it be said that even today in our own relationships that it's secrets that cause the most harm? And yet, I've often heard that many wives would rather their husbands keep an affair a secret. What they don't know won't hurt them.


At the request of Lisa ,we have posted this question and the other new ones she had for us today on their own separate threads for all to join in on if they would like without worry of the Part III advisory. If any would like to answer, could you do so there. Its fine if you do here too, but we have threads just for them now too. thanks guys :smileywink:

Please see THE COST OF SECRETS thread for this question.




Thanks, Viv, for doing this for me. I still don't understand the intricasies of this system. You saved me!
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Wrighty
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Re: DISCUSSIONS FOR PART III (Page 198 to end) Please use page spoiler warnings too


vivico1 wrote:

LisaSee wrote:



Sometimes I think it's comlicated because we wish such big and wonderful things for our daughters. We want them to have everything that we had or and/or everything we didn't have. But just because we want that doesn't mean that that's what our daughters want. They need to grow up and find thir own paths. As a daughter myself, I know I did. Not suprisingly -- and I bet a lot of you will have had the same experience -- the older I've become, the more I've understood my mother and what she wanted for me. I've also come to want those things too. But back in the teen years --- look out!


There is the irony for me, here I am 50 and my mother and I are still so far apart in our desires and beliefs that even at this age, we have no common ground. BUT, when we look around us, we find other women, older, wiser than us. who we can have this bond with if we are lucky. If not we at least appreciate now, the commonality of desires, for ourselves and others.


It is unfortunate when we don't have a good relationship with important people in our lives. I think it's something that everyone experiences just in different degrees. Luckily we can often find other people to experience a close bond with, not necessarily to replace the other person but to replace what's lacking in the relationship.
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Wrighty
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Re: Author's Note and Acknowledgements - SPOILER


LisaSee wrote:


Fozzie wrote:


LisaSee wrote:


It's a funny thing, but I say that The Three Wives' Commentary existed at the very beginning of the book. My editor kept telling me that no one would read that or retain it. He was right.



I find that there is so much to absorb in a book, particularly a detailed historical fiction book like yours, that I can't remember everything. I spend time going back over things, like re-reading the epigram at the beginning, middle, and end of the book. Sorry not to have retained that tidbit, but, like I said, I liked being surprised at the end. :-)





Oh goodness. Don't be sorry. Believe me when I say NO ONE retained that. My editor said no one would and he was right. It was a real lesson to me as a writer.

A lot of people have said they would have liked the book to start with the author's note, but I completely disagree with that. I'm with Vivico on this one. People want to get into the story. Writers spend so much time on the opening line -- I happen to really like the opening line for Peony in Love -- that you wouldn't want it to come five or six pages in to the book.



I thought your book was set up perfectly. I liked having the two paragraphs at the beginning. It gave me enough facts to get started with the story but not too much to overwhelm me. When I finished the story and read the Author's Notes I understood it. I knew who the characters were, I knew more about their beliefs and culture, what the opera was about, the time period, the suffering they endured, things I wouldn't have understood otherwise. I took my time reading this book because I wasn't very familiar with it. I really enjoyed it and learned so much from it. Lisa, you are a great storyteller!
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Wrighty
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reading the end first


LisaSee wrote:


vivico1 wrote:

LisaSee wrote:




I'm the exact same way. I love to savor books, unless they're bad. Then I skip huge sections! Actually, here's how I read a book -- every book -- the first chapter, the last chapter, the second chapter, the penultimate chapter. I can't enjoy a book unless I know how it's going to end. Isn't that terrible?


LISA!!! shame on you! lol, reading the last chapter after the first??? :smileywink: but seriously, doesnt that spoil it for you? Or are you a "I want it and I want it now" kind of person lol, just kidding. I so worry about someone telling me the end of a book that I worry about these clubs, when they dont have good threads, of people posting spoilers. I think everyone is doing great that way in this club tho. Actually, in a way, I have enjoyed this more without a mod than with one, tho, thats due mostly to your patience with us and posting for us too and for everyone in here who posted their own threads or questions.

Remind me not to read a "who done it" with you, if you're reading the last chapters before the buildup lol. Lisa, so many things are so much better with an initial interest, a little preview of things to come, some BUILDING of excitement and wonder...and then, um well, the climax! :smileyhappy: Arent BOOKS wonderful things!




I can't sleep, eat, or do anything if I don't know how everything and everyone is going to turn out. I've been this way since I first started reading chapter books as a little kid. I know it's bad! But here's the thing: I think it's made me a better writer. When I know the end, I can relax and not only enjoy the book but also see how the author strucured it. What did he or she reveal when? How did he do it? To me the pacing, what's revealed, how characters and plot develop are fascinating. As I said, I've learned a lot for my bad practice.

And another upside is that if I don't like the begining and I don't like the end, I don't have to read the middle. I remember with you, Vivico, that you weren't so sure you wanted to continue reading Peony in Love. You didn't like the begining all that much. If you'd read the last chapter early on, you might have decided you truly didn't want to finish it or you might have decided, "I have to figure out how she got from here to there." I hate reading on and on -- giving more and more of my time -- to a book I don't like. But even for the ones I don't like, I need to know how everything worked out for everyone.



No way Lisa! You skip to the end of the book!! I understand your logic but I could never read a book that way. I like the build up and the suspense too much. I almost went into seclusion so I wouldn't find out the end of the Harry Potter series before I read it. I will say that I have reread a few books for the same reasons you give for skipping. I can go through it the second time and look for the clues and other important factors that lead up to the end. If I don't like a book sometimes I'll give up on it but read the end to see how it finished. I have a sister-in-law that reads the end first! If she likes it then she goes back and reads the book. And she's a teacher! On well, to each his/her own. :smileyhappy:
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Wrighty
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Re: DISCUSSIONS FOR PART III (Page 198 to end) Please use page spoiler warnings too


LisaSee wrote:


Wrighty wrote: And it's so hard to let them go, even just to college. My oldest just started and I'm proud, happy and want him to love it but I also miss him and can't believe how fast he has grown up. It's the next chapter of his life and maybe eventually he'll start to realize I knew what I was talking about most of the time! Although I think I was little older than that when I figured it out about my mom.

There's an expression that says something about how our parents know a lot when we're little, don't know much as we're growing, don't know anything when we're teens, start getting a little smarter when we're in our twenties and then are incredibly bright again as we age. How true!




You've been holding out on us about your son going away to college. Is he your youngest? Are you an empty nester now? The whole process was very hard for me. But some wonderful things have come out of it. Oh, and that expressionn is dead on right!



He's my oldest so this is all new to me. Next year another one will go and then I will only have one left at home. I've already threatened to follow him everywhere since I'll have more free time on my hands. He said no thanks. I will hate the empty nest!
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