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Wrighty
Posts: 1,762
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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secrets


LisaSee wrote:


kiakar wrote:


LisaSee wrote:
As promised, I've thrown out a few new questions to carry us through the last few days. When I was touring for Peony in Love, I did a fantastic radio interview in Kansas City. The woman asked me about all of my books and had me read excerpts from them. She picked up a theme -- one that I have to admit that I hadn't noticed -- in all of my books: the way that secrets can cause love to be lost. Certainly secrets play a huge part in Peony in Love. I don't know what my question is here, but I think there could be something to discuss with this idea. Could it be said that even today in our own relationships that it's secrets that cause the most harm? And yet, I've often heard that many wives would rather their husbands keep an affair a secret. What they don't know won't hurt them.




I think this is the most dreadful thing to ever comphrehend happening to women! I do not know what a man feels with this betrayal. I have experienced it and its something, a hurt that is so deep that you never fully recover from it. I do not hold animosity for my former husband or his lover at the time, but the whole, it still has dentation marks through it. I guess that is why women say that, they feel they can't live through it or what a hell it would be for them. It is the most unforgiveable thing you can do. It's that sacred bond husband and wife have, and when its broken, disregarded, its like a earthquake hitting your heart tearing it all to bits and scattering it so far you can't ever find all the pieces to put it back together. For days, weeks and some months I hardly ate, in 2 months I had lost 30 lbs from only drinking iced tea or coffee and nothing to eat. Food made my throat close up. And it did feel like my heart really did break in a million pieces, it hurt so extremely bad.Those vows are taken more sacred most of the time, with women, more so than with men, maybe with cheating men that is. When its broken, its pure aching for a long time.




I'm so sorry. And I aplogize if what I wrote triggered bad memories. Thank you for sharing your life with us. I know I'm humbled by it as I am by all brave women.



I'm so sorry for what you went through to Kiakar. You've obviously come through it an amazingly strong woman. I've often thought that it's not that the woman don't want to know, it's just the denial taking over as a way to protect themselves. If no one admits there is a problem then maybe there isn't one. That's the thinking behind it. I've never experienced it in my marriage but I have with a boyfriend. Obviously it's not the same but the hurt is so intense. I couldn't eat either Kiakar. I can't even imagine how hard it must be in a marriage.
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vivico1
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Re: DISCUSSIONS FOR PART III (Page 198 to end) Please use page spoiler warnings too


LisaSee wrote:
Dr. Zhou seems to be the voice of persistent doubt, always voicing his opposition to The Peony Pavilion, and to women’s scholarship on the whole. Do you think Dr. Zhou was based on a real person? How do you think I intended for him to function within the narrative?


I think he could have been a real person. I also think he could have been any doctor dealing with these lovesick girls. He could also be ALL MEN with their ideas about this Opera or anything that might make women "dangerous" because they might become educated or find that need in something to break free of these traditional roles of women. If knowledge is power. Then women with power were and ARE a complete threat to men. They "rock the boat", they do away with the comfortable status quo. I think he represents all men or all ideas that would try to keep women subordinate and "controllable".
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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Fozzie
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Re: DISCUSSIONS FOR PART III (Page 198 to end) Please use page spoiler warnings too



LisaSee wrote:
Dr. Zhou seems to be the voice of persistent doubt, always voicing his opposition to The Peony Pavilion, and to women’s scholarship on the whole. Do you think Dr. Zhou was based on a real person? How do you think I intended for him to function within the narrative?



I don't think Dr. Zhou represents one real person, but, rather, the thoughts and opinions of a group of people at the time. He recognized lovesickness and its dangers, and because of his position, was able to voice his opinions to the families of the girls suffering. Given the Chinese culture, I don't think a friend, and maybe not even an extended family member, could say anything.
Laura

Reading gives us someplace to go when we have to stay where we are.
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LisaSee
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Registered: ‎08-24-2007
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Re: DISCUSSIONS FOR PART III (Page 198 to end) Please use page spoiler warnings too



Wrighty wrote:

LisaSee wrote:


Wrighty wrote: And it's so hard to let them go, even just to college. My oldest just started and I'm proud, happy and want him to love it but I also miss him and can't believe how fast he has grown up. It's the next chapter of his life and maybe eventually he'll start to realize I knew what I was talking about most of the time! Although I think I was little older than that when I figured it out about my mom.

There's an expression that says something about how our parents know a lot when we're little, don't know much as we're growing, don't know anything when we're teens, start getting a little smarter when we're in our twenties and then are incredibly bright again as we age. How true!




You've been holding out on us about your son going away to college. Is he your youngest? Are you an empty nester now? The whole process was very hard for me. But some wonderful things have come out of it. Oh, and that expressionn is dead on right!



He's my oldest so this is all new to me. Next year another one will go and then I will only have one left at home. I've already threatened to follow him everywhere since I'll have more free time on my hands. He said no thanks. I will hate the empty nest!




Evryone will tell you that when the last one goes you'll have a couple of terrible weeks. But then the world starts to open up in new and amazing ways. I didn't believe people when they told me that, but it was true. I promise.
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seagate
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Re: DISCUSSIONS FOR PART III (Page 198 to end) Please use page spoiler warnings too

Have to share this off to college story.Does seeing your kids off to college get any better? Nope ! Our 6th child wasn't a veggie lover but loved fresh green beans. Very often in the week I'd cook them just for him. The day after he left for college--I opened the refrigerator and saw the green beans.I cried !!!! He's in his 30's now and yep- when he visits - green beans are always served.
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bentley
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Registered: ‎01-31-2007
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Re: DISCUSSIONS FOR PART III (Page 198 to end) Please use page spoiler warnings too



seagate wrote:
Have to share this off to college story.Does seeing your kids off to college get any better? Nope ! Our 6th child wasn't a veggie lover but loved fresh green beans. Very often in the week I'd cook them just for him. The day after he left for college--I opened the refrigerator and saw the green beans.I cried !!!! He's in his 30's now and yep- when he visits - green beans are always served.




Distance is not easy on mothers. It is funny how little things trigger emotions and memories of the son or daughter.
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vivico1
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Re: DISCUSSIONS FOR PART III (Page 198 to end) Please use page spoiler warnings too


seagate wrote:
Have to share this off to college story.Does seeing your kids off to college get any better? Nope ! Our 6th child wasn't a veggie lover but loved fresh green beans. Very often in the week I'd cook them just for him. The day after he left for college--I opened the refrigerator and saw the green beans.I cried !!!! He's in his 30's now and yep- when he visits - green beans are always served.


That's cool. I like green beans but isn't it neat that what made you cry that day, will always put a smile on your face when you look at a can of green beans now :smileywink:. (and probably mine now too because you shared that) Cool.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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vivico1
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Re: DISCUSSIONS FOR PART III (Page 198 to end) Please use page spoiler warnings too


bentley wrote:


seagate wrote:
Have to share this off to college story.Does seeing your kids off to college get any better? Nope ! Our 6th child wasn't a veggie lover but loved fresh green beans. Very often in the week I'd cook them just for him. The day after he left for college--I opened the refrigerator and saw the green beans.I cried !!!! He's in his 30's now and yep- when he visits - green beans are always served.




Distance is not easy on mothers. It is funny how little things trigger emotions and memories of the son or daughter.


Or anyone you love! A song, a color, a smell, a certain phrase. And you know too when you see something trigger a warm thought in someone else too. They suddenly get that smile, the one that comes with that very dreamy far off look, and you just know they are enjoying their own little secret, lost in their thoughts. You can't help but want to say, What?? but sometimes, sometimes you just enjoy the quiet moment with them, cause you know they are in that special place. mmmm.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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kiakar
Posts: 3,435
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: DISCUSSIONS FOR PART III (Page 198 to end) Please use page spoiler warnings too



vivico1 wrote:

seagate wrote:
Have to share this off to college story.Does seeing your kids off to college get any better? Nope ! Our 6th child wasn't a veggie lover but loved fresh green beans. Very often in the week I'd cook them just for him. The day after he left for college--I opened the refrigerator and saw the green beans.I cried !!!! He's in his 30's now and yep- when he visits - green beans are always served.


That's cool. I like green beans but isn't it neat that what made you cry that day, will always put a smile on your face when you look at a can of green beans now :smileywink:. (and probably mine now too because you shared that) Cool.




Green beans! How about that! That has always been my entire families favorite. Of course we do not cook them very nutrious. We cook them with bacon until they almost melt in your mouth. But talk about going off to college, my kids when they came home for visits, had to have their favorite foods, if I forgot one, I hadn't missed them as much as the other. I had three in college at the same time. Now that they are all married and live away, Christmas I don't dare leave any favorites out or I will be scholded. Not really! Just that pitiful look I get when they are disappointed. I would rather be scolded than that look I get!
Wordsmith
kiakar
Posts: 3,435
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: DISCUSSIONS FOR PART III (Page 198 to end) Please use page spoiler warnings too

yes, Vivian, yo u do know the difference too. Like when someone is in dreamland thinking of another or special event than when they are just plain thinking. Sometimes I am consious of others thinking, since we all have thousand of minutes in our day that we think and no one knows what we are thinking of. I wonder, are they thinking something about me or something mean about someone or just thinking of things they need to do. And have you ever ask someone what they are thinking, and they go ee--rrr-oh I was just thinking about nothing really. But you are so right, yo udo know when they are thinking fond thoughts of something..... Enought of my jabber..
Inspired Correspondent
Wrighty
Posts: 1,762
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: DISCUSSIONS FOR PART III (Page 198 to end) Please use page spoiler warnings too


seagate wrote:
Have to share this off to college story.Does seeing your kids off to college get any better? Nope ! Our 6th child wasn't a veggie lover but loved fresh green beans. Very often in the week I'd cook them just for him. The day after he left for college--I opened the refrigerator and saw the green beans.I cried !!!! He's in his 30's now and yep- when he visits - green beans are always served.



Oh my gosh, that's so true! My friends and I have been talking about that. One of them said the day after her daughter left she went into her daughter's room and picked up her pillow and cried. After we got home from moving my son to his school I jokingly sent him a message that said "miss me yet?" All he wrote back was "yep" and that choked me up. Opening the medicine cabinet the first morning and seeing the empty spot where his toothbrush should have been shocked me and brought on some tears. It's those little unexpected moments that really get you the most.

Seagate, you mentioned your 6th child. Is he the youngest? A big family, that's so cool! It doesn't seem like you hear about that as much anymore. When I was growing up there were several in our small town. We had two families that each had 9 kids and they had the same last name but they weren't related. Those kids were always being asked what family they belonged to!
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seagate
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Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: DISCUSSIONS FOR PART III (Page 198 to end) Please use page spoiler warnings too

Tom was our sixth and we have seven.Today very few can afford a large family and also values today are very different.Moms work, day care is exspensive and the homes must be the lastest and the best.Food costs! College costs !!!! We are fortunate to have raised our children when we did. I often wonder which ones we could have done without. Now- in the teen years there were days when I could have given one or another away but bottomn line-they are all keepers.As I said before in response to a question here "they are our fortune."
Inspired Correspondent
Wrighty
Posts: 1,762
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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family


seagate wrote:
Tom was our sixth and we have seven.Today very few can afford a large family and also values today are very different.Moms work, day care is exspensive and the homes must be the lastest and the best.Food costs! College costs !!!! We are fortunate to have raised our children when we did. I often wonder which ones we could have done without. Now- in the teen years there were days when I could have given one or another away but bottomn line-they are all keepers.As I said before in response to a question here "they are our fortune."



Boy, there sure have been days when I wanted to give away one of mine too! Usually, that was about the time one of the other ones did something cute and saved my sanity. And luckily they usually take turns with the teenage angst. While one of them is having a rough period and is miserable to live with the others are fine. Then just as the next one is getting miserable the other one comes out of it. It gives me hope! It also makes me realize how tough my mother probably had it with me. I never got into trouble or did anything bad but I'm sure I gave my mother attitude problems because I thought I knew it all back then. How wrong I was! I have to give my mother so much credit because she has never said "I told you so" and she was very patient but I have noticed the little smirk she sometimes gets when one of my kids does or says something similar to my teen years. I have a feeling she is loving it inside. What goes around sure does come around. :smileysurprised:
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