seagate wrote:
"I'm glad we have these ancient writings".
Do you ever wonder how future genrations will know about us? When was the last time you received a written personal letter? We learned so much from Abigail Adam's correspondance. E-mails are convenient but usually no depth to them and often they are one liners. Many school districts have done away with cursive writing.So much is being lost as we "progress".
You're so right ... we have learned so much thru diaries and other writings that were kept and passed down from generations to generations. I have some at home from the 1700s. And we can learn somewhat about the writers personality if it was analyzed. You can't from a typewriter or keyboard. I work for a historical society, so I know how important it is to preserve and protect.
I love emails, too. But there is still something said about writing a personal thank you note or letter. All our children should be taught to hand write notes. We could teach many adults, too.
I started writing journals to my kids when I was pregnant with my first child. He is almost 19 now. In the early years I wrote almost every day. Now it's more sporadic. Sometimes I write several times a week and other times I only write once a month or less. I don't want it to ever be a chore. I like doing it so I write when I can. The journals are to the kids and I tell them what is going on in our family, the world, their life. I also write down funny things they've said and how old they were when they said them. We love to go back and read them now. I think I will always write to them and I've used up several journals over the years. It's a great way to keep track of things we might not remember otherwise. I also keep a copy of our local newspaper from the day they were born and then every year on their birthday. It's another way for them to see how much our little town and the world around them has changed over the years.
Awesome Wrighty! I wish I started doing that. I don't even have my baby books all together. But I do have their family tree for them when they are interested.
LisaSee wrote:
cindersue wrote:
The more knowledge women could obtain, the more they wanted to learn, the more they would wander, the more they were a threat. I felt badly for the women of this time.
I think what you wrote is so interesting. Do you think the same thing could be said about women today? So many men think that women are a threat. The more power and influence women get, the more threatening. I don't know why men think this sometimes, but they do.
Lisa, I think we've come along way. But there are still men who are too controlling with their women, and that they feel threatened by them. I feel sorry for any woman who lets this happen to her. (there are men who this happens to too) I have a good friend who is married to a lawyer. He will not pay for her college education so she can finish. She has her paralegal, but wants her bachelor's degree. She started his legal firm, was the communicator to his clients, and he won't help her. He controls the money, too. I think it's pathetic in this day and age, but it still happens. I can only think that she's a threat to him.
You know what I find interesting tho...men are raised this way, to think this way about women, ok......who is 90% raising the little boys of every generation? The mothers. Its the old...the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world thing but what are we doing with it? Still raising the boys to believe about women what our husbands and fathers were taught to believe about us. Interesting isnt it?
That is definitely how we used to raise our kids, in very traditional roles. I think that is changing a lot now. I've tried to raise my kids to know that men and women can do anything. It is hard to change society though. You follow your role models.
I am fortunate to be married to a man whose father helped around the house, kissed boo-boo's, read stories, etc. His mother and father ran a diner, but his father was home more than his mom. He love sports, wouldn't miss a game, but he was gentler with his kids than his wife. He also didn't have indoor plumbing until the 50s. They used an outhouse, pumped water to fill a copper tub to bath. He was from a town of 600 and everyone was raised that way. He has nothing but good memories of his childhood. I'm so glad he was raised that way, he sure helps me around the house! I hate housework!
cindersue wrote:
Awesome Wrighty! I wish I started doing that. I don't even have my baby books all together. But I do have their family tree for them when they are interested.
I am glad that I did it but I haven't been spending enough time on it lately. Any amount of time is good though I guess. You could still do one now if you want. Make your own rules and write what you want. Make some extra notes or add some stories to the family tree.
cindersue wrote:
I am fortunate to be married to a man whose father helped around the house, kissed boo-boo's, read stories, etc. His mother and father ran a diner, but his father was home more than his mom. He love sports, wouldn't miss a game, but he was gentler with his kids than his wife. He also didn't have indoor plumbing until the 50s. They used an outhouse, pumped water to fill a copper tub to bath. He was from a town of 600 and everyone was raised that way. He has nothing but good memories of his childhood. I'm so glad he was raised that way, he sure helps me around the house! I hate housework!
My husband is great around the house too. He always has been but when I first got sick years ago he took over even more. He's involved with everything the kids do too, he's usually the one to stop at the store and he always makes dinner. He's a terrific cook! My husband was raised just the opposite of yours Cindersue and he had a terrible childhood. Isn't that ironic how that can happen? He has decided that he will never be the kind of parent he had or put his children through what he went through. He doesn't dwell on it though, he just lives life better now.
cindersue wrote:
LisaSee wrote:
cindersue wrote:
The more knowledge women could obtain, the more they wanted to learn, the more they would wander, the more they were a threat. I felt badly for the women of this time.
I think what you wrote is so interesting. Do you think the same thing could be said about women today? So many men think that women are a threat. The more power and influence women get, the more threatening. I don't know why men think this sometimes, but they do.
Lisa, I think we've come along way. But there are still men who are too controlling with their women, and that they feel threatened by them. I feel sorry for any woman who lets this happen to her. (there are men who this happens to too) I have a good friend who is married to a lawyer. He will not pay for her college education so she can finish. She has her paralegal, but wants her bachelor's degree. She started his legal firm, was the communicator to his clients, and he won't help her. He controls the money, too. I think it's pathetic in this day and age, but it still happens. I can only think that she's a threat to him.
Oh, this story made me mad and sad.
LisaSee wrote:
Last night I was thinking about this on-going conversation we've had about this book. In a few days it will be over and everything will disappear. I don't know that anything we've said is so deep or perfect, but it has been very interesting and sometimes quite heated. I think people in the future would be intrested to see conversations like this about books -- maybe not this one necessarily, but others.
I think you are right. You know, I havent thought about it but it would be interesting to read some discussions on books from the past, when they came out. Not the newspaper editorials about what people thought that you can find, but real conversations people had about them. I have a friend who gave all her books away because she has them all online! She even reads her scriptures online LOL! Now, first of all, why would anyone want to do all their reading online when one of the joys in life is that we can carry around with us a whole other world between the pages of a book and sit anywhere anytime and read it! Some of a person's best quality alone time is when you can curl up with a book, or sit in a swing by a pond and just read. The other thing, which I said to her is, what would you do if for some reason, any reason, tomorrow we lost all internet service worldwide and computers didnt work? I love the feel of a book, I love to write notes in some and others keep them just so pristine. I love the look of a book. Ok, now that is starting to sound like Dr Zeus lol, but you know what I mean. In
In this transcribing I am doing, one of the letters is about the artist that are visiting New Orleans at the time and they went and enjoyed it, or a new opera or musician and OH MY the names!~ Think about artists of the early 19th century. She went to see Monet's work! And other impressionist and Sousa was down there, had just written a new song they wanted to hear, STARS AND STRIPES FOREVER. I am reading this letter thinking, oh my gosh! We hear these names and wow, and here she is just hanging out on a friday night as if we had gone to see Bruce Springsteen when he was just getting started or something lolol.
Do you guys remember the old Twilight Zone? One of the best and most famous, was where the bank guy is always getting in trouble for sitting off somewhere reading. So he goes in the basement vault thinking he could read there in quiet. The world comes to an end, atom bombs lay everything waste. He comes out and finds himself alone but he finds the library and the for some reason its pretty safe and hes happy, hes got all the time in the world to read and a lifetime of books to read so he will be ok alone. Then he stumbles and breaks his coke bottle thick glasses to pieces and sits down in despair saying why! lol was pretty cruel irony, but altho I would never be that happy totally alone, I do understand his love for the written world.
BTW, i do keep copies of some of our discussions and print them off and keep with some of the books I read. I love discussing them and want to look back on some of these again sometime when I read the book again. Hey, its kind of like The Three Women's commentaries
I cant write all these things in the margins but I can copy them off and keep them in the folds of the books. 
vivico1 wrote:
I have a friend who gave all her books away because she has them all online! She even reads her scriptures online LOL! Now, first of all, why would anyone want to do all their reading online when one of the joys in life is that we can carry around with us a whole other world between the pages of a book and sit anywhere anytime and read it! Some of a person's best quality alone time is when you can curl up with a book, or sit in a swing by a pond and just read. The other thing, which I said to her is, what would you do if for some reason, any reason, tomorrow we lost all internet service worldwide and computers didnt work? I love the feel of a book, I love to write notes in some and others keep them just so pristine. I love the look of a book. Ok, now that is starting to sound like Dr Zeus lol, but you know what I mean.
As convenient and useful as computers are I could never get rid of all of my books! I like all of the things you mentioned as well Viv. The whole experience of reading is enjoyable to me and I always have a book with me in case I get a free moment. I also read every night before bed. It would be hard to curl up with my computer and read by my book light.
Lisa, I am surprised that you were surprised about the strong feelings on religion. Hey religion is always one of those volatile subjects, and we arent always respectful of another's religion and I am guilty of being on both sides of that too. But to me, why it shouldnt be surprising here that there were such strong feelings is because we are reading a book about a culture whose value of women is very hard to take, as a woman. We wanted to cry out for these woman and at times, like in the beginning, scream at some of these women because as we have said so many times, what we dont like in ourselves, or EVEN what we dont like in our society, we tend to take out on others. Many of us were mad at Peony's mother because we didnt understand in the beginning, we only saw with our eyes of today and Peony's young heart of yesterday. You as the writer, knew all about Peony's mother and her love so yeah, I bet you were biting your tongue and wondering too if we would ever change our views of her.
But why there should be no surprise at the high running feelings about religion in this book to me Lisa is, again, this is a book about how women are valued, or actually not valued, in a culture or often by each other and then when you put that in a setting of a book where 2/3s of it is about spiritual beliefs and practices and we see there that even in the afterlife women are still controlled, dependent on the living and yet controlling of the living, really strong feelings are going to come out. Heck we see that within religions even, if one part thinks women aren't treated equally as men and another part says they are but in a different way and the roles cant be the same. Its one of the biggest battlegrounds within the Christian communities. And I don't want to go there now, just saying. But in a book that makes women feel so much about our place in life, to hear some of the things about this cultures beliefs about a woman's place even in the afterlife? How could that not get really emotional about spiritual/religious beliefs? Some other book could have been set right in the middle of a particular religion but been about a different subject and it not get nearly as much discussion as here. Does any of this make sense? I am not sure if I am getting out what I mean about why it would be even more so in this book.
I want to say that altho Part II was really difficult for me and I was angry with Peony, I was angry with a system that would allow such things to happen to one after this life and keep such unhappy dead so tied to this world too (yes and happy but thats not so disturbing is it). I hated the idea that someone who had passed on could use me as a puppet. It may be a real religion, but its not one that I could handle. Don't get me wrong tho, I found it very fascinating and wouldn't mind knowing more about it, but I wouldnt want to be a part of it. I would LOVE to go to China and learn about the Buddhist religion there and visit in the temples if allowed as long as I didn't do anything that would offend their religion. And it made for a great backdrop for a story about women. Its a wonderful way to discover these aspects about women, using this life and the next. But yeah, it bothered me a lot. I really didnt know if i wanted to finish the book, it was just so depressing to me on this side and the other side of the veil. But I still felt I could learn something with this book, about me, about them and in this fascinating, entertaining way, so I stayed with it.
Lisa, by the end of part III I learned a lot. This will almost sound like my summing up of the book for me already and it may be, so i may refer everyone back to this note at the end of the month for my reactions . But I learned a lot about this culture, I learned about some really fascinating real women of this time period. I think the writers were incredible women. But you know what? I learned that so were these other women, who had led their lives in what at first hand is just everyday ways of the time and place. I never hated Peony's mother but I was angry at her over Peony's care BEFORE she got to the point where no one could help her. But by the end, I also found that what I thought must be there, that we werent seeing in her, was there and more. I think she and grandmother were incredible women and I found Peony starting to grown into one. By the end of the book, I found that I had read a really fascinating story told in a new and different way than I had ever read before and that I was so glad I finished it. I am glad it made me have strong feelings, about religion, including my own, and strong feelings again about injustices towards women, by culture, religion, societies and by as we talked about so much, or sure tried to, by other women. It was a book to entertain yes Lisa, but one that caused much thought and when the two can come together, hey to me, thats pretty awesome. If I would have stopped when I was really starting to get upset with what almost felt like hopelessness to me and that it wasnt going to change or go anywhere but to tell me more about that, I never would have learned these things or felt these things and I am glad I hung in and really really glad you have been here with us.
There was one book some of us read this past year, that was a pretty good story and a young girl going through some real growing pains and no one around that even seemed to see her and it was depressing but a well written story and so we (some are in here - the horse story ladies) kept reading thinking this girl was going to learn things tho, she was so smart and lets see what she does with it in the end. MAN were we wrong! This was the author's first book I believe but the ending, well there wasnt one, it stays with these very depressed people and her just looking at them at another time and you dont know what she is doing now as an adult, if shes ok, did she learn anything, is she another casualty or what! It was just like reading one more depressing chapter and THE END. Several of us ask the author about it, or mentioned that it just stopped, didnt seem to go anywhere. She said she was advised to change the ending (give it one I would hope) but she didnt want to change it. Now I totally can understand that feeling of not having anyone messing with your writing but sometimes some constructive criticism is a good thing if you want to do something for a living. She was a nice young woman and listened and wasnt upset with us at all and no one said anything in a mean way at all, heck we have said worse in here to each other LOL. But, see, this was not the case in this book. What for me, was interesting but seemed depressing and going to just stay there, actually took me on a journey (laborious at times cause I didnt understand a lot of the cultural things) with women and one of understanding, for Peony and for me and thats worth something. What I feel about the book on this end of it, is really different than going into it. The story was really very good and in the end, there was enlightenment about these women... about me. Thanks for that.
But why there should be no surprise at the high running feelings about religion in this book to me Lisa is, again, this is a book about how women are valued, or actually not valued, in a culture or often by each other and then when you put that in a setting of a book where 2/3s of it is about spiritual beliefs and practices and we see there that even in the afterlife women are still controlled, dependent on the living and yet controlling of the living, really strong feelings are going to come out. Heck we see that within religions even, if one part thinks women aren't treated equally as men and another part says they are but in a different way and the roles cant be the same. Its one of the biggest battlegrounds within the Christian communities. And I don't want to go there now, just saying. But in a book that makes women feel so much about our place in life, to hear some of the things about this cultures beliefs about a woman's place even in the afterlife? How could that not get really emotional about spiritual/religious beliefs? Some other book could have been set right in the middle of a particular religion but been about a different subject and it not get nearly as much discussion as here. Does any of this make sense? I am not sure if I am getting out what I mean about why it would be even more so in this book.
I want to say that altho Part II was really difficult for me and I was angry with Peony, I was angry with a system that would allow such things to happen to one after this life and keep such unhappy dead so tied to this world too (yes and happy but thats not so disturbing is it). I hated the idea that someone who had passed on could use me as a puppet. It may be a real religion, but its not one that I could handle. Don't get me wrong tho, I found it very fascinating and wouldn't mind knowing more about it, but I wouldnt want to be a part of it. I would LOVE to go to China and learn about the Buddhist religion there and visit in the temples if allowed as long as I didn't do anything that would offend their religion. And it made for a great backdrop for a story about women. Its a wonderful way to discover these aspects about women, using this life and the next. But yeah, it bothered me a lot. I really didnt know if i wanted to finish the book, it was just so depressing to me on this side and the other side of the veil. But I still felt I could learn something with this book, about me, about them and in this fascinating, entertaining way, so I stayed with it.
Lisa, by the end of part III I learned a lot. This will almost sound like my summing up of the book for me already and it may be, so i may refer everyone back to this note at the end of the month for my reactions
. But I learned a lot about this culture, I learned about some really fascinating real women of this time period. I think the writers were incredible women. But you know what? I learned that so were these other women, who had led their lives in what at first hand is just everyday ways of the time and place. I never hated Peony's mother but I was angry at her over Peony's care BEFORE she got to the point where no one could help her. But by the end, I also found that what I thought must be there, that we werent seeing in her, was there and more. I think she and grandmother were incredible women and I found Peony starting to grown into one. By the end of the book, I found that I had read a really fascinating story told in a new and different way than I had ever read before and that I was so glad I finished it. I am glad it made me have strong feelings, about religion, including my own, and strong feelings again about injustices towards women, by culture, religion, societies and by as we talked about so much, or sure tried to, by other women. It was a book to entertain yes Lisa, but one that caused much thought and when the two can come together, hey to me, thats pretty awesome. If I would have stopped when I was really starting to get upset with what almost felt like hopelessness to me and that it wasnt going to change or go anywhere but to tell me more about that, I never would have learned these things or felt these things and I am glad I hung in and really really glad you have been here with us.There was one book some of us read this past year, that was a pretty good story and a young girl going through some real growing pains and no one around that even seemed to see her and it was depressing but a well written story and so we (some are in here - the horse story ladies) kept reading thinking this girl was going to learn things tho, she was so smart and lets see what she does with it in the end. MAN were we wrong! This was the author's first book I believe but the ending, well there wasnt one, it stays with these very depressed people and her just looking at them at another time and you dont know what she is doing now as an adult, if shes ok, did she learn anything, is she another casualty or what! It was just like reading one more depressing chapter and THE END. Several of us ask the author about it, or mentioned that it just stopped, didnt seem to go anywhere. She said she was advised to change the ending (give it one I would hope) but she didnt want to change it. Now I totally can understand that feeling of not having anyone messing with your writing but sometimes some constructive criticism is a good thing if you want to do something for a living. She was a nice young woman and listened and wasnt upset with us at all and no one said anything in a mean way at all, heck we have said worse in here to each other LOL. But, see, this was not the case in this book. What for me, was interesting but seemed depressing and going to just stay there, actually took me on a journey (laborious at times cause I didnt understand a lot of the cultural things) with women and one of understanding, for Peony and for me and thats worth something. What I feel about the book on this end of it, is really different than going into it. The story was really very good and in the end, there was enlightenment about these women... about me. Thanks for that.
Speaking of writings, newspapers are threatened to extinction because of the computer. It's important to keep our diaries, writings, etc., for our future generations to learn from, as are our books. Even if you backup your documents on CDs, you still have to re-backup them up in 5 years. CDs go bad. We don't have anything foolproof yet. I love the computer, I use it daily, but I still like to read a book, carry it with me to the beach, the doctors office, at lunch, on the toilet, all those places I like. Our high school newsletter is now online. I hate to read it online. It's 36 pages! I agree with Wrigthy and Viv, there's nothing like being able to carry a book with you.
As far as your book Lisa. It's awesome. I had trouble getting into it at first because I don't know Chinese history. But it gave me an insight of where their cultural beliefs came from. Similar to our native Americans. Their beliefs tied in with the environment, the sun and the moon. How important their customs were to pass on to generation. I may not agree with how the woman were treated ... grrrr ... but that's history. It happened. We all need to learn from it. We need to understand why, also, it happened. I am almost finished with the book. I am eager to see how it's concluded. Thanks, Lisa, for opening my eyes to a different time.
Our high school newsletter is now online. I hate to read it online. It's 36 pages! I agree with Wrigthy and Viv, there's nothing like being able to carry a book with you.As far as your book Lisa. It's awesome. I had trouble getting into it at first because I don't know Chinese history. But it gave me an insight of where their cultural beliefs came from. Similar to our native Americans. Their beliefs tied in with the environment, the sun and the moon. How important their customs were to pass on to generation. I may not agree with how the woman were treated ... grrrr ... but that's history. It happened. We all need to learn from it. We need to understand why, also, it happened. I am almost finished with the book. I am eager to see how it's concluded. Thanks, Lisa, for opening my eyes to a different time.
