Since 1997, you’ve been coming to BarnesandNoble.com to discuss everything from Stephen King to writing to Harry Potter. You’ve made our site more than a place to discover your next book: you’ve made it a community. But like all things internet, BN.com is growing and changing. We've said goodbye to our community message boards—but that doesn’t mean we won’t still be a place for adventurous readers to connect and discover.

Now, you can explore the most exciting new titles (and remember the classics) at the Barnes & Noble Book Blog. Check out conversations with authors like Jeff VanderMeer and Gary Shteyngart at the B&N Review, and browse write-ups of the best in literary fiction. Come to our Facebook page to weigh in on what it means to be a book nerd. Browse digital deals on the NOOK blog, tweet about books with us,or self-publish your latest novella with NOOK Press. And for those of you looking for support for your NOOK, the NOOK Support Forums will still be here.

We will continue to provide you with books that make you turn pages well past midnight, discover new worlds, and reunite with old friends. And we hope that you’ll continue to tell us how you’re doing, what you’re reading, and what books mean to you.

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IlanaSimons
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A Welcome from Ilana

[ Edited ]
Welcome, fellow readers --

You probably already have a few authors whom you consider smart confidantes or friends. You draw on their words for guidance at difficult crossroads—for sympathy or advice. After all, literature isn’t only valuable because it’s entertainment, but because it delivers memorable insight about life outside the book. We know more about love because of Shakespeare, about jealousy because of Tolstoy, about self-esteem because of Charlotte Bronte. Literature moves us for what it says about events outside of their plots.

This forum -- part blog, part book club -- is a tribute to the practical wisdom we pull from great literature. Each week, I’ll describe some insight I’m getting from reading: If a book changes my approach to a relationship at work or gives me confidence on a date, I’ll explain it. This is a place for discussion, too: I want to hear what books are influencing you most, and when. You don’t have to have read the classic of the week to post a message here: This blog is a springboard for discussion for any ideas that matter to us.

Literature offers rich advice about life; we sometimes just need to slow down to remember exactly what the authors’ insights are. I look forward to hearing what books sit closest to your heart—and how they’ve changed your lives after you’ve closed their covers.


-Ilana


Visit my website at http://webspace.newschool.edu/~simonsi.

Message Edited by IlanaSimons on 05-24-200704:20 PM




Ilana
Check out my book, here and visit my website, here.


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Photograph

Ilana, I just wanted to let you know it's nice to "see" you: that's a great photograph!
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Choisya
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Re: Photograph

Wonderful idea for a book club Ilana and it's great to see your pic! I hope it goes very well.
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katknit
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Re: A Welcome from Ilana

Intriguing idea! I'll keep checking in.
No two persons ever read the same book. [Edmund Wilson]
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Nelsmom
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Re: A Welcome from Ilana

Thanks for starting this group. Sometimes its just not guideance that literature gives. Sometimes it gives you a chance to take a breather so that when you get back to life you don't feel so overwhelmed.

Toni
Toni L. Chapman
Everyone needs some Tender Loving Care
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IlanaSimons
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Re: Photograph



pmath wrote:
Ilana, I just wanted to let you know it's nice to "see" you: that's a great photograph!




Thanks a lot, pmath. I learn so much from you--and you're doing great things with women's lit. Glad we can keep this going.



Ilana
Check out my book, here and visit my website, here.


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IlanaSimons
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Re: A Welcome from Ilana



Nelsmom wrote:
Thanks for starting this group. Sometimes its just not guideance that literature gives. Sometimes it gives you a chance to take a breather so that when you get back to life you don't feel so overwhelmed.

Toni




utterly agreed.



Ilana
Check out my book, here and visit my website, here.


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apooz
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Re: A Welcome from Ilana

Hello ilana,

this is Apurva from your writing workshop course at NYU (Fall 2007). I was browsing thru B&N for audio books and chanced upon your new club. Its got a touch of self-importance, but hey its great. "Rhetoric" was an important topic of your course and it virtually got ingrained over the length of the course.

So, what happened to myself and my writing after having attended your course (and the Writing Worskhop II) after that was I got hooked to literature. What is great to learn is that you are still in this vocation, but I was also looking to find out whether you are still at NYU?

Without rhetoric life would be such a drab with everyone directly jumping to conclusions. And when that happens neither is one able to take stock of the situtation nor is one able to wisely interpret the situation. The sad part is one needs to develop and nurture a certain temparament to be able to "indulge" in rhetoric, which is comparable to other common forms of expression like "fliratation," "deception" and "sarcasm." At least, that's been the experience here having deployed the art of rhetoric in my workings.

Unless and until you have someone equally well-versed in the art of rhetoric, it is virtually a waste of time. And then the longings simply irritate and insinuate you internally.

ALL RIGHT, SO WOULD YOU KNOW OF A BOOK-READING PROGRAM OR PROJECT, PREFERABLY AT NYU WHERE ONE CAN LEND ONE'S VOICE? (Recording audio-books basically and / or editing recorded audio books)

The talent practiced and developed during that freshman year at NYU now needs to be put to use. Not just use, but good use!

Anyways, as a soothsayer, I'd say it was great to "meet you" on B&N. (But I also need you to convey the info on an SOS-basis)

Wish you the very best!

-Apurva
agarwal.apoorv@gmail.com
aa607@stern.nyu.edu

PS: "Life right now feels as though I'm between the devil and the deep blue sea" :smileyhappy:
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apooz
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Re: A Welcome from Ilana

sorry its not Fall 2007 but Fall 2000
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Choisya
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Re: A Welcome from Ilana : Rhetoric in literature.

[ Edited ]
Ah rhetoric, the art of persuasion through written and spoken language:smileyhappy:. I rather like Socrates' honest definition (Plato, Phaedrus 272):-

Socrates: The fact is, as we said at the beginning of our discussion, that the aspiring speaker needs no knowledge of the truth about what is right or good... In courts of justice no attention is paid whatever to the truth about such topics; all that matters is plausibility... There are even some occasions when both prosecution and defence should positively suppress the facts in favor of probability, if the facts are improbable. Never mind the truth -- pursue probability through thick and thin in every kind of speech; the whole secret of the art of speaking lies in consistent adherence to this principle.

We tend to think of rhetoric as applying to the spoken word, especially to the oratory of political speeches but of course it applies to literature too and, to follow Ilana's 'emotion' theme here, Aristotle's Rhetoric cites the three means of persuasian as being (1) the character of the speaker, (2) the emotional state of the hearer and (3) the logic of the argument. The speaker must be virtuous, intelligent and have goodwill and his discourse must display these abilities. His success at persuading his audience will be dependent upon their emotions and his ability to manipulate them.

Do we similarly require authors to be virtuous, intelligent and to have goodwill in order that they may persuade us that their book is credible or that their protaganist presents a good argument/story? Are there examples of novels written by the non-virtuous, or which have non-virtuous heros, which still persuade us? Or does a novel only have to follow Socrates' definition of rhetoric and be 'plausible'?

I am reminded of Hitler and Mein Kampf - despite being distinctly non-virtuous and not particularly intelligent but appealing to the emotions, Hitler and his book persuaded an awful lot of people:smileysad:. Was this an example of Socratic plausibility or an Aristotlean example of the three means of persuasion?

This glossary of rhetorical terms may also interest folks. Like the use of phrases from Shakespeare, we often do not realise when we are using or reading classical rhetoric.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_rhetorical_terms

--------

Apurva wrote:-
Hello ilana,

this is Apurva from your writing workshop course at NYU (Fall 2007). "Rhetoric" was an important topic of your course and it virtually got ingrained over the length of the course....Without rhetoric life would be such a drab with everyone directly jumping to conclusions. And when that happens neither is one able to take stock of the situtation nor is one able to wisely interpret the situation.

Message Edited by Choisya on 05-27-200708:04 AM

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IlanaSimons
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Re: A Welcome from Ilana

[ Edited ]
Wow--how great to see you here, Apurva. Thanks so much for logging on. A "touch of self importance...." Ha! Yeah. Ok, so that's great rhetoric: Cut thru the b.s. from the beginning.

I really like this line in your post:

apooz wrote:
One needs to develop and nurture a certain temparament to be able to "indulge" in rhetoric, which is comparable to other common forms of expression like "fliratation," "deception" and "sarcasm."


That's insightful: To speak well, we need some of the same skills we need to deceive or flirt or joke well. Neat idea. In each, we have to try to anticipate the other person, and then pitch our voice to make the interaction work.

(You pitched your voice just right in cutting me down, then re-building my little ego, before finally asking for help finding a job. Well done. I'm playing back.) I've actually been thinking a lot about the stuff in your post lately.
People usually define rhetoric as the art of formal verbal presentation--in politics or law, etc.--but it's also the skill behind everyday interaction. If I want to write an email to a friend to mend a longstanding fight, I might write a few drafts so that the pitch "works." I want to sound kind but not obsequious; rational but not still stiff and angry; sensitive to our past but not stuck in it. As Choisya said in her good post quoting Plato on rhetoric, we pick the details that strengthen our position, and cut the details that weaken it. So: rich, dynamic talk is never just "throw-it-all-in-there" talk, but talk that tries to hit the right note, so that we get the other person feeling more like a partner with us than just put-off.

But, the real stuff: I think you've hit on a fantastic idea in looking for work to record books. I think that's going to be a huge field in the next few years. Every book's going to have its podcast or audio version, probably. I know little about this stuff, so I'm going to say the stupid and obvious: Googgle search and otherwise search for companies that are hosting author podcasts or selling books on tape, and send them your resume. Do the rhetoric thing: First flatter like you lightly flattered me. Tell them why the industry is one of the most exciting growing industries, and why you see the verbal word as the future of the written word. Explain why you're the person for the job. Maybe post a soundbite online and send them to your voice.
OK, we'll write a book on employing classic lessons in rhetoric to the modern job search, huh?



apooz wrote:
Hello ilana,

this is Apurva from your writing workshop course at NYU (Fall 2007). I was browsing thru B&N for audio books and chanced upon your new club. Its got a touch of self-importance, but hey its great. "Rhetoric" was an important topic of your course and it virtually got ingrained over the length of the course.

So, what happened to myself and my writing after having attended your course (and the Writing Worskhop II) after that was I got hooked to literature. What is great to learn is that you are still in this vocation, but I was also looking to find out whether you are still at NYU?

Without rhetoric life would be such a drab with everyone directly jumping to conclusions. And when that happens neither is one able to take stock of the situtation nor is one able to wisely interpret the situation. The sad part is one needs to develop and nurture a certain temparament to be able to "indulge" in rhetoric, which is comparable to other common forms of expression like "fliratation," "deception" and "sarcasm." At least, that's been the experience here having deployed the art of rhetoric in my workings.

Unless and until you have someone equally well-versed in the art of rhetoric, it is virtually a waste of time. And then the longings simply irritate and insinuate you internally.

ALL RIGHT, SO WOULD YOU KNOW OF A BOOK-READING PROGRAM OR PROJECT, PREFERABLY AT NYU WHERE ONE CAN LEND ONE'S VOICE? (Recording audio-books basically and / or editing recorded audio books)

The talent practiced and developed during that freshman year at NYU now needs to be put to use. Not just use, but good use!

Anyways, as a soothsayer, I'd say it was great to "meet you" on B&N. (But I also need you to convey the info on an SOS-basis)

Wish you the very best!

-Apurva
agarwal.apoorv@gmail.com
aa607@stern.nyu.edu

PS: "Life right now feels as though I'm between the devil and the deep blue sea" :smileyhappy:

Message Edited by IlanaSimons on 05-27-200709:33 AM

Message Edited by IlanaSimons on 05-31-200703:40 PM




Ilana
Check out my book, here and visit my website, here.


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TracyNan
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Re: A Welcome from Ilana

Hi Ilana. Great photo and blog!
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IlanaSimons
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Re: A Welcome from Ilana

T! TNan!
T-nan: amazing friend from high school. Her dog Lucky sticks like a hotspot in my brain. We used to make fat-free-banana-bread and record music tapes in the backyard and copy Spanish homework.
Tnan. Hi!



TracyNan wrote:
Hi Ilana. Great photo and blog!





Ilana
Check out my book, here and visit my website, here.


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LizzieAnn
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Re: A Welcome from Ilana

Hi Ilana,

Great to "see" you. This forum seems like a great idea and one long in coming. Can't wait to dive in!
Liz ♥ ♥


Some books are to be tasted, others to be swallowed, and some few to be chewed and digested. ~ Francis Bacon
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IlanaSimons
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Re: A Welcome from Ilana

Thanks, Liz
I'm glad to see you here.
Ilana


LizzieAnn wrote:
Hi Ilana,

Great to "see" you. This forum seems like a great idea and one long in coming. Can't wait to dive in!





Ilana
Check out my book, here and visit my website, here.


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Peppermill
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Re: A Welcome from Ilana

Ilana -- thanks for hosting this board. Look forward to following the discussions here!
"Seize the moments of happiness, love and be loved! That is the only reality in the world, all else is folly. It is the one thing we are interested in here." -- Leo Tolstoy
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IlanaSimons
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Re: A Welcome from Ilana

Thanks a lot for coming in.
I look forward to your words
Ilana


Peppermill wrote:
Ilana -- thanks for hosting this board. Look forward to following the discussions here!





Ilana
Check out my book, here and visit my website, here.


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KristyR
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Re: A Welcome from Ilana

What a great idea for a board! I'm looking forward to the discussions!
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IlanaSimons
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Re: A Welcome from Ilana

Thanks a lot for the post, Kristy
Welcome.


KristyR wrote:
What a great idea for a board! I'm looking forward to the discussions!





Ilana
Check out my book, here and visit my website, here.


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Re: A Welcome from Ilana

This is very cool :smileyhappy: We should discuss your book here when it is published this year :smileyvery-happy:
Melissa W.
I read and knit and dance. Compulsively feel yarn. Consume books. Darn tights. Drink too much caffiene. All that good stuff.
balletbookworm.blogspot.com