Week 74: Jungian-Inspired Personality Test: Are you a Re-Inventor or a Cooperator? [ Edited ]

[IlanaSimons]

Carl Jung claimed you could divide human personalities into the “sensing” and the “intuiting” types.  He drew up a theory of personality that was actually much more complicated than that (expanded by Katharine Briggs and Isabel Meyers in 1962 to form a big modern theory of personality; more on this later).  But the “sensing vs. intuiting” thing was one solid claim about how we learn.  Put simply, the paradigm goes like this: Some people learn through experience, and some trust others’ ideas more readily.

I want to push this idea to say that there are two learning styles: people who need to “rediscover the wheel” each time they come to a new idea; and people who invest in, and build upon, precedent.  That is, some of us need to experience something to know it’s true; and others of us are more willing to rely on what experts have discovered before.  (I am pushing Jung’s ideas into my own claims here.  So I’ll just call my own divide the divide between “re-inventors” and “cooperators.”) 

For an example, I can imagine two different types of students getting ready for a test.  Some students trust the data in their notes and textbooks, and they enter study groups to tackle the information.  They use each other’s notes to digest the textbook.  Other students, though, want some more personal connection to feel they know the facts: They need to go back to the original material, for some more direct connection to it.  The former students are “cooperators”; the later are “re-inventors.”

 

Or, another example: A student in a science class hears some odd fact, like “water bends light, so that a spoon sitting in a glass of water looks bent.”  Kids who are “cooperators” probably understand the laws behind the phenomenon, and so trust that science lesson.  But others—the “re-inventors”—need to own the world through discovery.  They might experiment with spoons.  Or, they might just be less likely than “cooperators” to go into science at all.  They might become artists, so that they don’t need to rely so heavily on precedent

 

That said, it would be too simple to say that “cooperators” go into jobs like science (in which you trust data), or law (in which you focus on precedent), or journalism (where you record, but do not necessarily reinvent, events), while “re-inventors” go into the arts.  In fact, I think that great literary artists have come from both the “co-operator” and “re-inventor” camps.  “Cooperator”-writers thrive within traditions.  Think of Alexander Pope, who loved working within the structure of iambic pentameter; or of haiku poets, who write to live within, rather than re-invent, the haiku form.  Shakespeare himself invented very few plots; he largely relied on history for his storylines. 

 

And some writers, in contrast, are more distinctly “re-inventors.”  They emphasize expression and revolution of form.  For examples of these “re-inventors,” see Walt Whitman in “Song of Myself,” Allen Ginseberg in “Howl,” of Virginia Woolf in Orlando. 

 

What kind of thinker are you: Do you feel at home using the lessons and voices of history?  Maybe you are the scientist who trusts others’ findings, or a lawyer who orients himself through precedent, or a journalist who finds the world interesting as it is, without massively remodeling it.  Or, in contrast, do you tend to burn the past and think wholly individually—like Virginia Woolf, who wanted to rewrite ways of thinking?

 

The personality test I referred to above—Myers-Briggs test—is widely accepted in modern psychology.  You can take the test online here.  I’d like to hear you report back if you do.

 

Some of the questions in the test which I think map that “re-inventor” vs. “cooperator” personality there are these:

 

Answer there True vs. False:

“You are more inclined to experiment than to follow familiar approaches.” 

“The process of searching for solution is more important to you than the solution itself.” 

“When solving a problem you would rather follow a familiar approach than seek a new one.” 

“You feel more comfortable sticking to conventional ways.”

Message Edited by IlanaSimons on 11-25-2008 02:18 PM

[Sunltcloud]

Fabulous, Ilana! I immediately found 72 reasons why the questions don't fit the answers. I only give you one example. Number 63. "You feel more comfortable sticking to conventional ways." Well, duh....doesn't everybody? That doesn't mean I stick to them. As a matter of fact I try to think outside the box. But for the test's sake I had to say YES. But as with other tests, the test takers are clever enough to bombard me with the same question from different angles.

Only a few questions made me hesitate. One of them is 31. You value justice more than mercy. I really had to think about this one. Still don't know if I answered truthfully; let's say I answered the way I felt at the moment.

When I read the results I laughed my head off. Absolutely correct. How did they do that? I never thought that my sometimes excessive (to others) contingency planning would give me the title MASTERMIND. I'm still laughing,, but now I have to go to plan b for my morning walk, since I spent more time on the board than I had intended.  I am a INTJ with the following qualitative analysis:

distinctively expressed introvert

moderately expressed intuitive personality

slightly expressed thinking personality

moderately expressed judging personality

I also found an explanation for my inability to stay married: "...the knowledge and self-confidence that make them (INTJs) so successful in other areas can suddenly abandon or mislead them in interpersonal situations.

(I have to send an email to Dr. Steinfeld and ask him why he has never administered this test. I had given him the name Carl Gustav for a reason. Is it possible that he knew but wanted me to find out on my own?)

Still laughing.

[Sunltcloud]

And what are THINGS?

 #44: It is essential for you to try things with your own hands.

I don't stick my finger into dog poop to investigate if it is fresh, thus telling me the dog in question has just deposited it. I might stick my finger into the liquids in the bread maker (after I wash my hands!!!) to test the temperature (supposed to be lukewarm). I will definitely stick my finger into the lump of modeling clay (the one I want to use for the doll head) to test its consistency.  Now I see! Once I think about the importance of  the medium I understand what they have in mind.

Still laughing. Also nodding my head.

[Timbuktu2]

I laughed when I saw your post, Ilana.  I've been reading DonQuixote for two months now and see him everywhere.  Isn't this DQ vs Sancho?  Mind vs. body?  Idealism vs. empiricism?  Deduction vs. induction?  

I came out moderate in expressed introvert and intutive, and feeling.  Slight judging.  

I'm glad I'm more moderate than I thought.  I strongly identified with DQ and his idealism at first but I have become more sensible  ( disillusioned?)  

These dualities are interesting to think about but it seems to me the answer has to be in the middle (there's my moderation).    Maybe that's the point? 

[Sunltcloud]

One more, since I've already blown my schedule; a schedule, mind you, that I always revise and only follow about half of the time.

"You are always looking for opportunities."

What kind of opportunities? To cheat? To do good? To sell my wares? To hide?

Isn't ALWAYS a bit overblown? Just like EASILY in other questions.

It isn't always EASY to perceive various ways in which events could develop.

However, I didn't turn down the opportunity to take the test. YES. And it was easy to foresee that this board would do something to my schedule. YES

Frowning now for just a second. Satisfied to have questioned some of the questions. Still very happy to be called a MASTERMIND. Never happened before. Just a bit worried about German arrogance hidden somewhere deep inside. Bad associations with the word mastermind! Oh well, title only on paper. Maybe needs to be printed in large hot pink font and stuck into journal? Glittery flowers around it? Sturdy cage?

[IlanaSimons]

Hi Ms. INTJ, I'm an INFJ.  Nice to meet you!

I also think that the test accurately describes me.  I score as "The Counselor" personality type.

About the "conventional ways" question: I had a different reaction than you did.  I thought the test was trying to pull for the opposite answer, actually (my musing: "But no one is more comfortable in convention!!" ).  So, I'm a "no" there.

---

Sunltcloud wrote:

Fabulous, Ilana! I immediately found 72 reasons why the questions don't fit the answers. I only give you one example. Number 63. "You feel more comfortable sticking to conventional ways." Well, duh....doesn't everybody? That doesn't mean I stick to them. As a matter of fact I try to think outside the box. But for the test's sake I had to say YES. But as with other tests, the test takers are clever enough to bombard me with the same question from different angles.

Only a few questions made me hesitate. One of them is 31. You value justice more than mercy. I really had to think about this one. Still don't know if I answered truthfully; let's say I answered the way I felt at the moment.

When I read the results I laughed my head off. Absolutely correct. How did they do that? I never thought that my sometimes excessive (to others) contingency planning would give me the title MASTERMIND. I'm still laughing,, but now I have to go to plan b for my morning walk, since I spent more time on the board than I had intended.  I am a INTJ with the following qualitative analysis:

distinctively expressed introvert

moderately expressed intuitive personality

slightly expressed thinking personality

moderately expressed judging personality

I also found an explanation for my inability to stay married: "...the knowledge and self-confidence that make them (INTJs) so successful in other areas can suddenly abandon or mislead them in interpersonal situations.

(I have to send an email to Dr. Steinfeld and ask him why he has never administered this test. I had given him the name Carl Gustav for a reason. Is it possible that he knew but wanted me to find out on my own?)

Still laughing.

---

Message Edited by IlanaSimons on 11-25-2008 11:35 PM

[IlanaSimons]

Wow.  We think alike

I'm also moderate in introvert, intuitive, and feeling, and slight in judging.

about DQ and Sancho: neat angle.  I do see how the division I was writing about might also be expressed as deduction/intuition. 

Some people imagine new truths based on experience; some deduce truth from information others give them.  Is that what you mean?

---

Timbuktu2 wrote:

I laughed when I saw your post, Ilana.  I've been reading DonQuixote for two months now and see him everywhere.  Isn't this DQ vs Sancho?  Mind vs. body?  Idealism vs. empiricism?  Deduction vs. induction?  

I came out moderate in expressed introvert and intutive, and feeling.  Slight judging.  

I'm glad I'm more moderate than I thought.  I strongly identified with DQ and his idealism at first but I have become more sensible  ( disillusioned?)  

These dualities are interesting to think about but it seems to me the answer has to be in the middle (there's my moderation).    Maybe that's the point? 

---

[Timbuktu2]

Yes, I saw "conventional" as a perjorative.  

---

IlanaSimons wrote:

Hi Ms. INTJ, I'm an INFJ.  Nice to meet you!

I also think that the test accurately describes me.  I score as "The Counselor" personality type.

About the "conventional ways" question: I had a different reaction than you did.  I thought the test was trying to pull for the opposite answer, actually (my musing: "But no one is more comfortable in convention!!").  So, I'm a "no" there.

---

Sunltcloud wrote:

Fabulous, Ilana! I immediately found 72 reasons why the questions don't fit the answers. I only give you one example. Number 63. "You feel more comfortable sticking to conventional ways." Well, duh....doesn't everybody? That doesn't mean I stick to them. As a matter of fact I try to think outside the box. But for the test's sake I had to say YES. But as with other tests, the test takers are clever enough to bombard me with the same question from different angles.

Only a few questions made me hesitate. One of them is 31. You value justice more than mercy. I really had to think about this one. Still don't know if I answered truthfully; let's say I answered the way I felt at the moment.

When I read the results I laughed my head off. Absolutely correct. How did they do that? I never thought that my sometimes excessive (to others) contingency planning would give me the title MASTERMIND. I'm still laughing,, but now I have to go to plan b for my morning walk, since I spent more time on the board than I had intended.  I am a INTJ with the following qualitative analysis:

distinctively expressed introvert

moderately expressed intuitive personality

slightly expressed thinking personality

moderately expressed judging personality

I also found an explanation for my inability to stay married: "...the knowledge and self-confidence that make them (INTJs) so successful in other areas can suddenly abandon or mislead them in interpersonal situations.

(I have to send an email to Dr. Steinfeld and ask him why he has never administered this test. I had given him the name Carl Gustav for a reason. Is it possible that he knew but wanted me to find out on my own?)

Still laughing.

---

---

[Timbuktu2]

I think good thinking always goes both ways.  For instance, science may seem inductive but, as Einstein said, Imagination is more important than knowledge to a scientist.  I think that's what he said, LOL!  We may have different approaches and different styles and tendencies but the intuitive thinker has to reality check and the empirical thinker has to see the forest for the trees, if either wants to get to the truth.

[KathyS]

Here are my results.  I don't know what it all means, if it means anything at all.  I knew what they were asking, it didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out "how many ways can I ask the same question, and see which ones the person is going to answer out of the side of their mouths.  I knew I contradicted myself, more often than not,  and left it deliberately, and answered accordingly.  It's how they ask the question, and being undecided, depending on time of day, or year, or a million other things that happen in your day.  I'm sometimes this way, and sometimes I'm that way, depends on the weather.  Who knows how I'll react tomorrow to these same questions.  Depending on whether I've had enough sleep to be manic, or depressed enough to be reclusive.  Like all test, it's only one in a million.  I've taken these kinds of tests before, and I've consciously manipulated them, because I know exactly what they are asking - and it's how I feel at those moments, and  know I want to be who I am, when I want it.

What's with the "Famous Personalities" thing?

Do I sound overall critical? Wink, wink.

Another mood.  Hmm....Judging? Grr....my worst quality!   Or my best quality?  Yes, I do judge myself more than anyone should.  And someone did tell me, once, I was judgmental.  I resented that.  I see issues, I work through them, and find results.  It doesn't matter whether it has to do with me, someone else, or a situation.  If that shows  how judgmental I am, then these are just my facts to which to judge an outcome.  I set myself up.  Now, you can take me down to someplace nearer to understanding.

Your Type is
INFJ Introverted Intuitive Feeling Judging Strength of the preferences % 44 12 50 56
INFJ type description by D.Keirsey
INFJ Identify Your Career with Jung Career Indicator™     INFJ Famous Personalities
INFJ type description by J. Butt and M.M. Heiss



Qualitative analysis of your type formula
 You are:

• moderately expressed introvert
  
• slightly expressed intuitive personality
  
• moderately expressed feeling personality
  
• moderately expressed judging personality
  

[tgem]

Hello all,

Results are in....INFJ

You are:

• slightly expressed introvert
  
• distinctively expressed intuitive personality
  
• moderately expressed feeling personality
  
• slightly expressed judging personality
  

 Ilana, it also pointed me toward being a counselor.  I've thought of this at times, but what I want to know is why am I counseling no one, and not even following my own advice?

tgem

[IlanaSimons]

wow. ok.  here's something strange.  so far, the majority of us in this club are INFJ's.  

I now need to do some research to see if we're a majority here and a minority in the outside world.

At least we see that our guess from last week was right: We're mostly introverts in the real world and extroverts in online life.

---

tgem wrote:

Hello all,

Results are in....INFJ

You are:

• slightly expressed introvert
• distinctively expressed intuitive personality
• moderately expressed feeling personality
• slightly expressed judging personality

 Ilana, it also pointed me toward being a counselor.  I've thought of this at times, but what I want to know is why am I counseling no one, and not even following my own advice?

tgem

---

[IlanaSimons]

So did the board also recommend you as the "counselor" type?

---

KathyS wrote:

Here are my results.  I don't know what it all means, if it means anything at all.  I knew what they were asking, it didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out "how many ways can I ask the same question, and see which ones the person is going to answer out of the side of their mouths.  I knew I contradicted myself, more often than not,  and left it deliberately, and answered accordingly.  It's how they ask the question, and being undecided, depending on time of day, or year, or a million other things that happen in your day.  I'm sometimes this way, and sometimes I'm that way, depends on the weather.  Who knows how I'll react tomorrow to these same questions.  Depending on whether I've had enough sleep to be manic, or depressed enough to be reclusive.  Like all test, it's only one in a million.  I've taken these kinds of tests before, and I've consciously manipulated them, because I know exactly what they are asking - and it's how I feel at those moments, and  know I want to be who I am, when I want it.

What's with the "Famous Personalities" thing?

Do I sound overall critical? Wink, wink.

Another mood.  Hmm....Judging? Grr....my worst quality!   Or my best quality?  Yes, I do judge myself more than anyone should.  And someone did tell me, once, I was judgmental.  I resented that.  I see issues, I work through them, and find results.  It doesn't matter whether it has to do with me, someone else, or a situation.  If that shows  how judgmental I am, then these are just my facts to which to judge an outcome.  I set myself up.  Now, you can take me down to someplace nearer to understanding.

Your Type is
INFJ Introverted Intuitive Feeling Judging Strength of the preferences % 44 12 50 56
INFJ type description by D.Keirsey
INFJ Identify Your Career with Jung Career Indicator™     INFJ Famous Personalities
INFJ type description by J. Butt and M.M. Heiss



Qualitative analysis of your type formula
 You are:

• moderately expressed introvert
• slightly expressed intuitive personality
• moderately expressed feeling personality
• moderately expressed judging personality

---

[KathyS]

Ah, yes, counselor.  I just now found where it told what the further results were.  Good grief, so much for subterfuge, and trying to outsmart the people who are smarter than me! Ha! 

Yup, that's me in black and white.

---

IlanaSimons wrote:

So did the board also recommend you as the "counselor" type?

---

KathyS wrote:

Here are my results.  I don't know what it all means, if it means anything at all.  I knew what they were asking, it didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out "how many ways can I ask the same question, and see which ones the person is going to answer out of the side of their mouths.  I knew I contradicted myself, more often than not,  and left it deliberately, and answered accordingly.  It's how they ask the question, and being undecided, depending on time of day, or year, or a million other things that happen in your day.  I'm sometimes this way, and sometimes I'm that way, depends on the weather.  Who knows how I'll react tomorrow to these same questions.  Depending on whether I've had enough sleep to be manic, or depressed enough to be reclusive.  Like all test, it's only one in a million.  I've taken these kinds of tests before, and I've consciously manipulated them, because I know exactly what they are asking - and it's how I feel at those moments, and  know I want to be who I am, when I want it.

What's with the "Famous Personalities" thing?

Do I sound overall critical? Wink, wink.

Another mood.  Hmm....Judging? Grr....my worst quality!   Or my best quality?  Yes, I do judge myself more than anyone should.  And someone did tell me, once, I was judgmental.  I resented that.  I see issues, I work through them, and find results.  It doesn't matter whether it has to do with me, someone else, or a situation.  If that shows  how judgmental I am, then these are just my facts to which to judge an outcome.  I set myself up.  Now, you can take me down to someplace nearer to understanding.

Your Type is
INFJ Introverted Intuitive Feeling Judging Strength of the preferences % 44 12 50 56
INFJ type description by D.Keirsey
INFJ Identify Your Career with Jung Career Indicator™     INFJ Famous Personalities
INFJ type description by J. Butt and M.M. Heiss



Qualitative analysis of your type formula
 You are:

• moderately expressed introvert
• slightly expressed intuitive personality
• moderately expressed feeling personality
• moderately expressed judging personality

---

Message Edited by KathyS on 11-25-2008 08:56 PM

[KathyS]

I don't think this is particularly strange.  Most actors are introverts, and writers are solitary people.  What everyone writes, here, or says, is just an extension of the mind, with very little personal (physical) investment. 

Although, when first writing, here,  it scared the living daylights out of me, as I'd said on this board.  I've conditioned myself, over many years [in real life] to accept that side of me, and to come forward, and act upon spontaneity, and trust in the people who read me, here. 

Hating the shy side of myself has always been something I battled.  Taking a college class in how to speak in front of people, changed my life at that moment.  It was impowering, but you never forget the side of you that wants to revert back to that solitary life. 

I never have a problem standing in front of people, as long as I'm prepared, or know what I'm asked to do.  I've played the piano in front of people, and hated it, I've sung in front of people, and was constently thinking about NOT thinking of what I was feeling,  mainly because it's such a physical  and emotionally involved action, and your own words are not there to save you.

Just a couple of thoughts along these lines.

---

IlanaSimons wrote:

wow. ok.  here's something strange.  so far, the majority of us in this club are INFJ's.  

I now need to do some research to see if we're a majority here and a minority in the outside world.

At least we see that our guess from last week was right: We're mostly introverts in the real world and extroverts in online life.

---

tgem wrote:

Hello all,

Results are in....INFJ

You are:

• slightly expressed introvert
• distinctively expressed intuitive personality
• moderately expressed feeling personality
• slightly expressed judging personality

 Ilana, it also pointed me toward being a counselor.  I've thought of this at times, but what I want to know is why am I counseling no one, and not even following my own advice?

tgem

---

---

[IlanaSimons]

My friend and I just had a good discussion about how we'd describe the difference between extroverts and introverts.  I think that the two types differ in terms of where they place their energy.  Introverts do more introspection; extroverts gather more information from the outside, or at least put more energy there.  Introverts are most excited by their own minds; extroverts like the excitement of others.

How would any of you characterize the difference?

[KathyS]

Well, at the moment I'm having a major hot flash----literally!  And Im craving cheesecake! 

I'll sleep on these thoughts, but I think you and your friends are right on, on this one...

My brain just melted down to a puddle....time for a cold shower!

Here's my - before - Thanksgiving thoughts: (you can substitute turkey for chicken)

THE COPING DIET

This is a specially formulated diet designed to help women cope with the stress that builds during
the day.

Breakfast
1 grapefruit
1 slice whole wheat toast
1 cup skim milk

Lunch
1 small portion lean, steamed chicken
1 cup spinach
1 cup herbal tea
1 Hershey's kiss

Afternoon Snack
The rest of the Hershey kisses in the bag
1 tub of Hagen-Daaz ice cream with chocolate chips

Dinner
4 glasses of wine (red or white)
2 loaves garlic bread
1 family size supreme pizza
3 Snickers Bars

Late Night Snack
1 whole Sarah Lee cheesecake (eaten directly from the freezer)

Remember: Stressed spelled backward is desserts.

Message Edited by KathyS on 11-25-2008 10:32 PM

[Timbuktu2]

Kathy, it's 4 am and I laughed so loud I was afraid I woke everyone up!

[Timbuktu2]

---

IlanaSimons wrote:

My friend and I just had a good discussion about how we'd describe the difference between extroverts and introverts.  I think that the two types differ in terms of where they place their energy.  Introverts do more introspection; extroverts gather more information from the outside, or at least put more energy there.  Introverts are most excited by their own minds; extroverts like the excitement of others.

How would any of you characterize the difference?

---

That sounds right Ilana.  The problem I have with it is the word "place" as though it's a choice.

My hunch is that it's the way we're wired.  What comes to mind is that some people are more sensitive and become more easily overwhelmed by outside stimuli.  They (we) don't need to seek out more.  Others feel less and seek stimulation.  Isn't that the theory behind ADD and why stimulants enable kids to sit down and focus?  It's probably more complicated than that but when I observe the people I know, including my children, I would say that was the divide. 

 

BTW, I found it surprising that you would be on the introvert side.   

[IlanaSimons]

Funny, KS.  I just had an ice cream sandwhich meself.

---

KathyS wrote:

Well, at the moment I'm having a major hot flash----literally!  And Im craving cheesecake! 

I'll sleep on these thoughts, but I think you and your friends are right on, on this one...

My brain just melted down to a puddle....time for a cold shower!

Here's my - before - Thanksgiving thoughts: (you can substitute turkey for chicken)

THE COPING DIET

This is a specially formulated diet designed to help women cope with the stress that builds during
the day.

Breakfast
1 grapefruit
1 slice whole wheat toast
1 cup skim milk

Lunch
1 small portion lean, steamed chicken
1 cup spinach
1 cup herbal tea
1 Hershey's kiss

Afternoon Snack
The rest of the Hershey kisses in the bag
1 tub of Hagen-Daaz ice cream with chocolate chips

Dinner
4 glasses of wine (red or white)
2 loaves garlic bread
1 family size supreme pizza
3 Snickers Bars

Late Night Snack
1 whole Sarah Lee cheesecake (eaten directly from the freezer)

Remember: Stressed spelled backward is desserts.

Message Edited by KathyS on 11-25-2008 10:32 PM

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