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Week 77: To Anorexics and Promiscuous Overindulgers: Indulge Here. Art.
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12-15-2008 07:31 PM - edited 02-27-2009 07:42 PM
The holidays are coming, so why not talk about eating. And appetite in all its forms.
I don’t remember if it was Christopher Hitchens or some other overindulger who recently said, “Every one of my favorite writers overindulged.” Great artists, he meant, couldn’t hold back from the delights of food and drink, because food and drink can sometimes feel as delicious as words do. Big artists are big artists because they love to take things in. They eat it all up: absurd human scenes, drink at those parties, the food that keeps you up all night, and all of it.
And, of course—on the other hand—some artists were famously abstentious. They wanted to live off the fruit of the mind and reject the second-rate fruit of the Earth. They under-indulged. They refused to eat the word’s bologna, and so become anorexics of sorts, refusing to digest the everyday, holing themselves up, producing the purities that can only be made in solitude.
I do think that the artistic impulse is highly connected to the earthly appetitive impulse. Freud certainly said this. He described this idea when he defined the “anal stage.” Freud said that around age 2, we learn to control our sphincter muscles—or how and when to poop. As we do this, we learn that we are in control of what comes in and out of our bellies. We can either shut people (or food, or information) out; or we can let it in. And, while we become conscious of this independence, we can generally take one of two routes. We either become relatively defensive about the in-and-out function and claim tight control of that passageway, becoming “anally retentive.” Or, we giggle at the chaotic intake and outtake, and so eat and poop just about everything. We become “anally repulsive,” with a relative tendency toward indulgence and/or promiscuity.
Earthly appetite says a lot about how we relate to the world. Some of us just eat stuff up; some of us are more careful about monitoring what comes in. Great artists have certainly assumed both sides of this spectrum. After all, art is the process of eating up the world and spitting it out for others to inspect.
Because that input-output process is so central to art, lots of great writers have had major issues with appetite. I do mean concrete appetite: Lots of artists, dealing with the mind’s consumption, became neurotic about earthly consumption. Lots took to extremes when it came to sex and food.
I’m gonna list some of my favorite appetite maniacs here. Tell me what you think. Do you think that earthly appetite (for sex or food etc.) relates to the creative arts, and if so, how? (E.g. How many of you need to drink coffee or nibble on crackers when you read?)
The Abstainers
Jesus Christ: He didn’t love food and rejected almost all of the purely earthly pleasures. “When you fast...Your Father shall reward you openly” (Matthew 6:17-18). Abstain, and so purify. Reject the fat of the Earth.
John Ruskin: He salivated at the sight of art, becoming the greatest art critic of his time, and perhaps of all time. But as much as he loved the sensuous trace of a paintbrush, he gagged at sex. Married at 29, he was struck with fear when his wife undressed. This was the first naked female body he’d seen. He promised his wife they’d have sex in six year’s time. But they never did. His wife, Effie, annulled the marriage on account of Ruskin’s "incurable impotency." She went on to marry the painter John Everett Millais and lived pretty happily.
Thomas Carlyle: A genius Scottish satirist. He lived a sexless life with his wife, Jane Welsh. It was a sad marriage. They fought incessantly, perhaps playing out erotic energy through anger. Alfred Lord Tennyson satirically defended the marriage between these two: “By any other arrangement, four people would have been unhappy instead of two."
Franz Kafka: He was a vegetarian who believed in the massive consumption of unpasteurized milk. He thought sex was disgusting; lived with his parents until his early 30’s; and kept such a thin frame that he was often confused for a 15-year-old when he was in his late 20’s. Definitely a loner.
Friedrich Nietzsche: He also tried vegetarianism (nothing against vegetarians), but he also thought sex was disgusting and holed himself up away from almost all human contact. (“And finally, woman! One-half of mankind is weak, chronically sick, changeable…. Woman requires…a religion of the weak which glorifies weakness.” )
Other likely virgins: Emily Dickinson, Henry James, Gerard Manley Hopkins. George Bernard Shaw was not a virgin but had no sex with his wife over 45 years of marriage.
There are Tons of Other Anal Artistic Geniueses, but Now Onto the Heavy Consumers:
Dickens: I’m not sure if he’s a Christopher Hitchens, but he did grow a belly, had ten kids, and had multiple affairs. He finally left his wife for a younger actress. This male paradigm of the “Victorian” life did love sex, a whole lot.
Charlie Chaplin: He had a hankering for younger women. At age 35, he married a 16-year-old. Soon thereafter he began an affair with a 19-year-old. At 54, he married an 18-year-old. That’s a specific sort of appetite, no?
And think of all the writers with massive desires for alcohol consumption: Sartre, Hemingway, Faulkner, et al. And there’s the fabulous Lord Byron (lots and lots of sex) and the Marquis de Sade, and Picasso, and Orson Welles, and Tallulah Bankhead, the actress, who reportedly had 5000 lovers.
I do think artistic minds go haywire in terms of appetite. What do you think? How does a desire for earthly intake parallel the desire for intellectual meat? Do you, yourself, find yourself wanting to eat or drink a lot when you read?
Re: Week 77: To Anorexics and Permiscuous Overindulgers: Indulge Here. Art.
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12-15-2008 08:19 PM
Ilana,
Thank you for taking me out of the depressed Mr. Craper state, and introducing this parallel world of the eaters and poopers!
No one is going to accuse me of not being a consumer, or eliminator - Although I was called anal retentive, once, because of how I would "detail" the markets I worked in. That was only because I was told to do it. You don't want to see the dust bunnies under my bed!
I don't think I need to express my feelings in excess, on this topic, being obvious which category I fall under. No worries about anorexia, here. I'll lick the bottom of the wine glass, if I have to!
http://kathys-aliceinwonderland.blogspot.com/
Re: Week 77: To Anorexics and Permiscuous Overindulgers: Indulge Here. Art.
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12-15-2008 08:36 PM - edited 12-16-2008 07:42 AM
A lot of us probably sit in both camps, when I think about it. I'm both a "drink the dregs" sort and a "run 6 miles a day" sort. Go Figure.
KathyS wrote:
Ilana,
Thank you for taking me out of the depressed Mr. Craper state, and introducing this parallel world of the eaters and poopers!
No one is going to accuse me of not being a consumer, or eliminator - Although I was called anal retentive, once, because of how I would "detail" the markets I worked in. That was only because I was told to do it. You don't want to see the dust bunnies under my bed!
I don't think I need to express my feelings in excess, on this topic, being obvious which category I fall under. No worries about anorexia, here. I'll lick the bottom of the wine glass, if I have to!
Re: Week 77: To Anorexics and Permiscuous Overindulgers: Indulge Here. Art.
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12-15-2008 08:58 PM
Ilana, you're funny!
Hmm...excess on all levels. I'm not sure if I'd call it "comfortable", sometimes yes, sometimes no, but two camps it is. I've sat, off and on, all day at this computer, working on an art project...a little excessive, I guess, but it's been fun, while the rain came down in sheets....ahh....excess is nice, here....today.
Hey, it's after 5:00! (smile, it could be worse...me blabbing all day on these boards!)
IlanaSimons wrote:
Yeah, I tend to lick the rim, as the mead never even reaches the glass.
But I guess we can all sit comfortably in both camps: I'm both a "drink the dregs" sort and a "run 6 miles a day" sort. Go Figure.
KathyS wrote:
Ilana,
Thank you for taking me out of the depressed Mr. Craper state, and introducing this parallel world of the eaters and poopers!
No one is going to accuse me of not being a consumer, or eliminator - Although I was called anal retentive, once, because of how I would "detail" the markets I worked in. That was only because I was told to do it. You don't want to see the dust bunnies under my bed!
I don't think I need to express my feelings in excess, on this topic, being obvious which category I fall under. No worries about anorexia, here. I'll lick the bottom of the wine glass, if I have to!
http://kathys-aliceinwonderland.blogspot.com/
Re: Week 77: To Anorexics and Permiscuous Overindulgers: Indulge Here. Art.
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12-15-2008 09:15 PM
We had some writers in my father's family and they were promiscuous. My old grandma used to say that writers are like that. Over the years I had noticed a certain truth to her observation so I was surprised by the many people you mention who do not follow that pattern. I have to admit, the first thought I had was that they must have been gay. In those days they were called "confirmed bachelors". I have to admit I just finished watching "Wilde".
My motto has always been the same as Mae West's "Too much of a good thing is... wonderful!" But I'm a reader, not a writer. About eating and reading... Some of my fondest memories are of summer days, sitting on the stoop of our apartment house in Brooklyn, reading Archie comic books and licking an ice cream cone. Fast forward 40 years. Deja Vue all over again!
Re: Week 77: To Anorexics and Permiscuous Overindulgers: Indulge Here. Art.
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12-15-2008 09:43 PM
Timbuktu2 wrote:We had some writers in my father's family and they were promiscuous. My old grandma used to say that writers are like that. Over the years I had noticed a certain truth to her observation so I was surprised by the many people you mention who do not follow that pattern. I have to admit, the first thought I had was that they must have been gay. In those days they were called "confirmed bachelors". I have to admit I just finished watching "Wilde".
My motto has always been the same as Mae West's "Too much of a good thing is... wonderful!" But I'm a reader, not a writer. About eating and reading... Some of my fondest memories are of summer days, sitting on the stoop of our apartment house in Brooklyn, reading Archie comic books and licking an ice cream cone. Fast forward 40 years. Deja Vue all over again!
Well, Tim---I've obviously avoided...going on two years on this board, I guess...the promiscous subject. I wouldn't want to burst any bubbles, here, gads! I don't know how I come across to anyone on this board, but I'm not squeaky clean, if there is such a thing. I have had experiences that would probably make you, and everyone, blush. So, this subject is closed, for me.
I didn't read on a stoop growing up, or live outside of California's chase lounges, and beach chairs, but the summers were "always" the most wonderful reading days! "Archie", etc.. I've read these comic books that were always brought back from the market, by my parents. They would asked me if there was something I wanted, and that was it! That's where and when I learned to read and drawn. I loved drawing these characters. Hmm...I guess I still do, only in another art form.
http://kathys-aliceinwonderland.blogspot.com/
Re: Week 77: To Anorexics and Permiscuous Overindulgers: Indulge Here. Art.
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12-15-2008 11:34 PM
All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances,
And one man in his time plays many parts,
His acts being seven ages.
I'm a player. I enter when necessary, and exit when I can't stand being part of the play acting. It's interesting to watch, as we all dance and sing, and walz around the realities that aren't said. We live in the imagined world.
http://kathys-aliceinwonderland.blogspot.com/
Re: Week 77: To Anorexics and Permiscuous Overindulgers: Indulge Here. Art.
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12-16-2008 09:39 AM
I'm hardly promiscuous but I am rather fond of food and drink and definitely like to both eat and drink while I'm reading. And even just reading messageboards I always need a cup of coffee. I average four cups a day when I'm here in the office.
Need some help setting up your My B&N profile? Click here!
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Re: Week 77: To Anorexics and Permiscuous Overindulgers: Indulge Here. Art.
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12-16-2008 01:22 PM
I average four cups a day when I'm here in the office.
Four cups a day of coffee doesn't even start to approach promiscuous. That takes at least ten cups a day.
Now if it were four cups a day of Scotch Whiskey, big full cups, we might have something. ![]()
Jon_B wrote:I'm hardly promiscuous but I am rather fond of food and drink and definitely like to both eat and drink while I'm reading. And even just reading messageboards I always need a cup of coffee. I average four cups a day when I'm here in the office.
I think, therefore I drive people nuts.
Re: Week 77: To Anorexics and Permiscuous Overindulgers: Indulge Here. Art.
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12-16-2008 01:25 PM
I have tried to think of something interesting to add to this discussion, but I can't. So just count me a lurker for this week.
Other than the fact that we are reading Chesterton in Epics, and he was certainly of the, uh, full figured persuasion.
I think, therefore I drive people nuts.
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12-16-2008 05:08 PM
love the image. where in brooklyn?
Timbuktu2 wrote: ....About eating and reading... Some of my fondest memories are of summer days, sitting on the stoop of our apartment house in Brooklyn, reading Archie comic books and licking an ice cream cone. Fast forward 40 years. Deja Vue all over again!
Re: Week 77: To Anorexics and Permiscuous Overindulgers: Indulge Here. Art.
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12-16-2008 05:17 PM
Not knowing much about Chesterton, I just had to google him. He's a perfect example of this week's post. I found out that he ate as much as he wrote--and did both in hordes.
This from Wikipedia:
"On [one] occasion [Cesterton] remarked to his friend George Bernard Shaw, 'To look at you, anyone would think there was a famine in England.' Shaw retorted, 'To look at you, anyone would think you caused it.'" And: "Chesterton wrote around 80 books, several hundred poems, some 200 short stories, 4000 essays, and several plays."
Now that's a paradigm of consumption and production!
Everyman wrote:
I have tried to think of something interesting to add to this discussion, but I can't. So just count me a lurker for this week.
Other than the fact that we are reading Chesterton in Epics, and he was certainly of the, uh, full figured persuasion.
Re: Week 77: To Anorexics and Permiscuous Overindulgers: Indulge Here. Art.
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12-16-2008 05:38 PM
IlanaSimons wrote:love the image. where in brooklyn?
Timbuktu2 wrote: ....About eating and reading... Some of my fondest memories are of summer days, sitting on the stoop of our apartment house in Brooklyn, reading Archie comic books and licking an ice cream cone. Fast forward 40 years. Deja Vue all over again!
Crown Heights, Park Place between Schenectady and Utica Aves. In those days I could walk to the candy store by myself, walk to the toy store around the corner, no one drove, anywhere. Looking back, an 8 year old was pretty darn independent!
Re: Week 77: To Anorexics and Permiscuous Overindulgers: Indulge Here. Art.
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12-16-2008 07:19 PM
Sounds so nice. My brother's raising a kid in Brooklyn now, and we just had a talk about how dramatically different it is to do it today and 20 or 30 years ago. My brother's a very lenient guy, but would not feel safe letting his kid stray far at all.
Timbuktu2 wrote:
IlanaSimons wrote:love the image. where in brooklyn?
Timbuktu2 wrote: ....About eating and reading... Some of my fondest memories are of summer days, sitting on the stoop of our apartment house in Brooklyn, reading Archie comic books and licking an ice cream cone. Fast forward 40 years. Deja Vue all over again!
Crown Heights, Park Place between Schenectady and Utica Aves. In those days I could walk to the candy store by myself, walk to the toy store around the corner, no one drove, anywhere. Looking back, an 8 year old was pretty darn independent!
Re: Week 77: To Anorexics and Permiscuous Overindulgers: Indulge Here. Art.
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12-16-2008 08:18 PM
IlanaSimons wrote:Sounds so nice. My brother's raising a kid in Brooklyn now, and we just had a talk about how dramatically different it is to do it today and 20 or 30 years ago. My brother's a very lenient guy, but would not feel safe letting his kid stray far at all.
Timbuktu2 wrote:
IlanaSimons wrote:love the image. where in brooklyn?
Timbuktu2 wrote: ....About eating and reading... Some of my fondest memories are of summer days, sitting on the stoop of our apartment house in Brooklyn, reading Archie comic books and licking an ice cream cone. Fast forward 40 years. Deja Vue all over again!
Crown Heights, Park Place between Schenectady and Utica Aves. In those days I could walk to the candy store by myself, walk to the toy store around the corner, no one drove, anywhere. Looking back, an 8 year old was pretty darn independent!
Where is he?
I can't believe it myself, when I look back. By l2 I was taking the subway to the city. I did have some close calls, however, and I was MUCH more protective with my own kids because of that. I guess we all get nostalgic about our childhoods. One day I was lamenting the fact that my kids didn't get to play "street" games the way I did. Hopscotch, Potsy, Scully. My son put me straight when he reminded me that we had a park with a baseball field and basketball court in our backyard! Still.... not as much fun!
Re: Week 77: To Anorexics and Permiscuous Overindulgers: Indulge Here. Art.
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12-16-2008 08:22 PM
Jon_B wrote:I'm hardly promiscuous but I am rather fond of food and drink and definitely like to both eat and drink while I'm reading. And even just reading messageboards I always need a cup of coffee. I average four cups a day when I'm here in the office.
My childhood ice cream cone has been replaced by a Vente. Sometimes I wonder, this addiction to coffee must have an effect on society. I heard that there's now a Starbucks in The Forbidden City in China! We're "wiring" the entire world!
Re: Week 77: To Anorexics and Permiscuous Overindulgers: Indulge Here. Art.
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12-16-2008 08:23 PM - edited 12-16-2008 08:26 PM
My brother is in DUMBO, the area close to the water just north of the Brooklyn Bridge. His daughter is not yet one year old. But we were musing about her future. No hopscoth. Unless they move. Which they might.
I bet your son had a great times on the playing fields. All kids' positive memories feel unique, or special and private, I think.
Timbuktu2 wrote:...
Where is he?
I can't believe it myself, when I look back. By l2 I was taking the subway to the city. I did have some close calls, however, and I was MUCH more protective with my own kids because of that. I guess we all get nostalgic about our childhoods. One day I was lamenting the fact that my kids didn't get to play "street" games the way I did. Hopscotch, Potsy, Scully. My son put me straight when he reminded me that we had a park with a baseball field and basketball court in our backyard! Still.... not as much fun!
Re: Week 77: To Anorexics and Permiscuous Overindulgers: Indulge Here. Art.
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12-16-2008 08:24 PM
IlanaSimons wrote:My brother is in DUMBO, the area close to the water just north of the Brooklyn Bridge. His daughter is not yet one year old. But we were musing about her future. No hopscoth. Unless they move. Which they might.
Timbuktu2 wrote:...
Where is he?
I can't believe it myself, when I look back. By l2 I was taking the subway to the city. I did have some close calls, however, and I was MUCH more protective with my own kids because of that. I guess we all get nostalgic about our childhoods. One day I was lamenting the fact that my kids didn't get to play "street" games the way I did. Hopscotch, Potsy, Scully. My son put me straight when he reminded me that we had a park with a baseball field and basketball court in our backyard! Still.... not as much fun!
Is that Brooklyn Heights? They keep changing the names!
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12-16-2008 08:27 PM
Close to Brklyn Heights, but North. Gentrification leads to new labels, huh?
Timbuktu2 wrote:
Is that Brooklyn Heights? They keep changing the names!
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12-16-2008 08:29 PM
IlanaSimons wrote:Close to Brklyn Heights, but North. Gentrification leads to new labels, huh?
Timbuktu2 wrote:
Is that Brooklyn Heights? They keep changing the names!
I just looked it up. It sounds miraculous!