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Sunltcloud
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"Twilight" My first vampire. Help me Ilana! Anybody? Set me straight!

Every once in a while I try something I haven’t done before. No, I don’t attempt to skydive; I don’t want to prove my fearlessness; I already know that I am a coward. My trial outings are of a much tamer kind; for instance today I saw my first vampire movie, “Twilight.” I thought I should find out what all the fuss is about.

 

Well, on one hand I was astonished, on the other hand I was disappointed. I now know why young girls find such pleasure in vampire stories; the beauty, brooding, tenderness, undercurrent of violence in the shifting personality of the male hero were overwhelming; I would say they felt almost pornographic in intent without describing or showing erotic behavior. No wonder girls become obsessed with vampires.

 

What I object to is the approach the filmmaker (and I assume the author) use as far as the genre is concerned. I thought that the lesson was: danger is exciting and it has consequences; if you fall in love with a vampire you risk your life. I was willing to suspend my disbelief and travel into the world of dangerous liaisons. But… “Twilight” offers a vampire who has trained himself to drink only animal blood. He compares himself to a human who eats tofu instead of meat. Of course there is the danger of a relapse and there are other, “bad” vampires who wait on the sidelines. But how can a young girl resist the romantic pull of a “converted” vampire with the face of a young god? Shouldn't there be a price to be paid for such an affair? Isn’t she being short-changed by the author? 

 

Did the writer find it more appealing or just convenient (more profitable) to feed the audience such gentle vampireness? I think it is unfair and irresponsible to distort or weaken the lesson, the lesson in the classical sense: cause and effect. I also wonder if I should pack my bags and go home to hang out with the old folks like Tolstoy and Flaubert. Sure, I feel they taught me well, but maybe modern books and films aren’t supposed to teach lessons. 

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KathyS
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Re: "Twilight" My first vampire. Help me Ilana! Anybody? Set me straight!


Sunltcloud wrote:

Every once in a while I try something I haven’t done before. No, I don’t attempt to skydive; I don’t want to prove my fearlessness; I already know that I am a coward. My trial outings are of a much tamer kind; for instance today I saw my first vampire movie, “Twilight.” I thought I should find out what all the fuss is about.

 

It's always good to try something different.  But I really don't care to go see this movie, or read Stephenie Mayer's books.  Several of my friends have read them, and love them.  They want to loan them to me.  I say no.  It's her writing that they can't put down.  I'm just not fond of the genre.  I grew out of it.

 

Well, on one hand I was astonished, on the other hand I was disappointed. I now know why young girls find such pleasure in vampire stories; the beauty, brooding, tenderness, undercurrent of violence in the shifting personality of the male hero were overwhelming; I would say they felt almost pornographic in intent without describing or showing erotic behavior. No wonder girls become obsessed with vampires.

 

Well, you just named all of the appeal and pleasure.  I saw the boy who was the lead in this movie, and the girls go nuts over him.  I only liked his English accent.  I don't think girls are obsessed with vampires, just the guys who portray them.

 

What I object to is the approach the filmmaker (and I assume the author) use as far as the genre is concerned. I thought that the lesson was: danger is exciting and it has consequences; if you fall in love with a vampire you risk your life. I was willing to suspend my disbelief and travel into the world of dangerous liaisons. But… “Twilight” offers a vampire who has trained himself to drink only animal blood. He compares himself to a human who eats tofu instead of meat. Of course there is the danger of a relapse and there are other, “bad” vampires who wait on the sidelines. But how can a young girl resist the romantic pull of a “converted” vampire with the face of a young god? Shouldn't there be a price to be paid for such an affair? Isn’t she being short-changed by the author? 

 

Short changed by the author?   I don't think most Authors are moralist. I think this one was having fun with what she wrote about.  I've never seen her interviewed, but I do know she'd never written anything before, and became an instant hit.  Drinking blood just doesn't sit well with me, whether drunk from the thinking, or the non thinking species.

 

Did the writer find it more appealing or just convenient (more profitable) to feed the audience such gentle vampireness? I think it is unfair and irresponsible to distort or weaken the lesson, the lesson in the classical sense: cause and effect. I also wonder if I should pack my bags and go home to hang out with the old folks like Tolstoy and Flaubert. Sure, I feel they taught me well, but maybe modern books and films aren’t supposed to teach lessons. 

 

Do authors think about the fairness, or profit, when writing.  I don't think so.  At least not the ones that have never written a book in their lives, like Mayers.   Everyone looks for what they want out of an author's writing.  I like lessons, myself, and if that's the case, I choose author's along those lines.  But some books are just read for the lightness, or shear enjoyment of watching some stupid character do stupid things - things we would never do, ourselves.  Just shows there are all kinds that make the world go round, and round, and round.


 

Melissa_W
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Re: "Twilight" My first vampire. Help me Ilana! Anybody? Set me straight!

Twilight is your first vampire movie?  Wow, I think I assume that everyone sees Bela Lugosi as Dracula for their first vampire flick.

 

I've read all four Twilight novels (and Meyer's adult novel The Host) and while I thought the first one was engaging (the rest of them less so as the series went along) I'll outline some problems I have with the novels.  One thing that the novels do away with are conventional vampire myths: sunlight, staking, garlic, familiars.  Meyer transforms the Transylvanian Dracula into a 21st century ultimate predator.  All senses are heightened (sight, touch, scent, hearing, taste for blood), a vampire is physically attractive as a lure to prey (humans), and possessed of superhuman speed and strength.  Gee, what's a normal girl to do?  Vampires now look like underwear models and can lure their victims in just by looking hot. The whole idea of preying on an unsuspecting, "innocent" victim changes to where the victim participates in her own demise by succumbing to the vampire's lures before he drinks her blood.

 

Bella and Edward have probably the most unhealthy relationship I've ever seen in a teen novel (s).  Co-dependent comes to mind; by the time book 2 and 3 rolled around Bella and Edward decided that neither could live without the other taking a normal teenage feeling (something explored in Judy Blume's Forever) to eternity.  So there's a dilemma: Bella wants to be a vampire to stay with Edward, but Edward doesn't want to deprive her of her humanness (this gets solved in book 4). This keeps going back and forth, at one point Edward deciding to have himself killed if Bella ever dies.

 

The other issue that creeps into the novels is teen sex.  The thing is, Bella and Edward are not married (Edward is a vampire with old-fashioned notions) and, with Edward being a vampire, he could kill her by accident during sex because of his vampire strength.  At this point, the notion of "danger" and "forbidden" goes right out the window; as the books went on, I felt that the previous allure of vampire novels (drinking blood standing in for the sexual act, the desire for blood a synomym for desire of the body) went by the wayside.  It gets very vanilla and very moral, but a different kind of moral than before.

 

I always return to Bram Stoker's Dracula and the character of Lucy, the sacrificial virgin offered up as proof that "bad girls" come to a bad end.  There's really no "bad girl" - just bad vampires offered up as reasons why you shouldn't drink human blood.  The whole thing twists and I hit the reality (during the 4th novel) that Twilight really just masks a plain-old, teenage romance novel with a hunky vampire.  It isn't a novelty.

 

I'm going to try and see Twilight tonight; my friend loves the books so a group of us are going to fight the teenagers (my mother commented it looked like the Beatles alighted on US soil overnight, there was a lot of screaming - she and my dad went to see Bolt).  I'm really more interested in seeing the Harry Potter trailer :smileytongue:


Sunltcloud wrote:

My trial outings are of a much tamer kind; for instance today I saw my first vampire movie, “Twilight.” I thought I should find out what all the fuss is about.

 

What I object to is the approach the filmmaker (and I assume the author) use as far as the genre is concerned. I thought that the lesson was: danger is exciting and it has consequences; if you fall in love with a vampire you risk your life. I was willing to suspend my disbelief and travel into the world of dangerous liaisons. But… “Twilight” offers a vampire who has trained himself to drink only animal blood. He compares himself to a human who eats tofu instead of meat. Of course there is the danger of a relapse and there are other, “bad” vampires who wait on the sidelines. But how can a young girl resist the romantic pull of a “converted” vampire with the face of a young god? Shouldn't there be a price to be paid for such an affair? Isn’t she being short-changed by the author? 

 

Did the writer find it more appealing or just convenient (more profitable) to feed the audience such gentle vampireness? I think it is unfair and irresponsible to distort or weaken the lesson, the lesson in the classical sense: cause and effect. I also wonder if I should pack my bags and go home to hang out with the old folks like Tolstoy and Flaubert. Sure, I feel they taught me well, but maybe modern books and films aren’t supposed to teach lessons. 


 

Melissa W.
I read and knit and dance. Compulsively feel yarn. Consume books. Darn tights. Drink too much caffiene. All that good stuff.
balletbookworm.blogspot.com
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Sunltcloud
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Re: "Twilight" My first vampire. Help me Ilana! Anybody? Set me straight!

Melissa, thank you so much for answering so many of my questions.

 

Co-dependency -  that's the expression I was looking for. The myth of not being able to live without each other is reinforced. It's not so much that I was looking for lessons as for guidance. Allowing young girls to dream and swoon is one thing but blinding them to danger is something else. You mentioned the word vanilla. Good point. 

 

 Conventional vampire myths - I guess that's what I epected. I knew about them, but was never interested in blood sucking creatures whether it was in the form of hero or anti-hero story. I grew up with adventure stories and stories about young girls who played with dolls, were sent to camp, did good deeds. It was, as I found out later, a superficially honest world, the lectures worked, but were based on false values (in my opinion.)

 

For instance: Karl May. He was a German author who had never been in America but wrote the cowboy and Indian stories German boys read. I think most of them were written in jail.

 

Else Ury. My favorite author all through childhood into teenage years. She wrote about the most ideal, loving German household in ten books about Annemarie Braun, a "typical" German child. I was in my 40s or 50s when I found out that she had become number 638 under Hitler, and was murdered at Auschwitz in 1943 at the age of 66. I can't EVER forget this.

 

S. Woerishoeffer. I thought he was a really smart man because he wrote so knowingly about Africa in "The Ship of Naturalists," a book I read over and over. Besides fascinating creaturs and botanical oddities, he also encountered maneaters. What I didn't understand then was the blatant racism that went into the book. And what the publishers hid (because the books were so successful and lucrative) was the fact that S. W. was a woman who never left Germany. She worked from maps and magazines they supplied her with.

 

Sometimes I shudder at the thought of having been fed stereotypes and lies for so many years of my life. My stepfather admired colonialism as an era of adventure. My mother admired imagination. Teachers followed orders. Didn't anybody ever question facts? Tell the truth? In later years I had to wade through lots of material to sort out fact and fiction, good and bad, healthy and unhealthy. And to keep on resolving inner conflicts I try to be open minded. I'm still wading.

 

I am looking forward to your take on Twilight after you have seen the movie.

 

 

 

 


Twilight is your first vampire movie?  Wow, I think I assume that everyone sees Bela Lugosi as Dracula for their first vampire flick.

 

I've read all four Twilight novels (and Meyer's adult novel The Host) and while I thought the first one was engaging (the rest of them less so as the series went along) I'll outline some problems I have with the novels.  One thing that the novels do away with are conventional vampire myths: sunlight, staking, garlic, familiars.  Meyer transforms the Transylvanian Dracula into a 21st century ultimate predator.  All senses are heightened (sight, touch, scent, hearing, taste for blood), a vampire is physically attractive as a lure to prey (humans), and possessed of superhuman speed and strength.  Gee, what's a normal girl to do?  Vampires now look like underwear models and can lure their victims in just by looking hot. The whole idea of preying on an unsuspecting, "innocent" victim changes to where the victim participates in her own demise by succumbing to the vampire's lures before he drinks her blood.

 

Bella and Edward have probably the most unhealthy relationship I've ever seen in a teen novel (s).  Co-dependent comes to mind; by the time book 2 and 3 rolled around Bella and Edward decided that neither could live without the other taking a normal teenage feeling (something explored in Judy Blume's Forever) to eternity.  So there's a dilemma: Bella wants to be a vampire to stay with Edward, but Edward doesn't want to deprive her of her humanness (this gets solved in book 4). This keeps going back and forth, at one point Edward deciding to have himself killed if Bella ever dies.

 

The other issue that creeps into the novels is teen sex.  The thing is, Bella and Edward are not married (Edward is a vampire with old-fashioned notions) and, with Edward being a vampire, he could kill her by accident during sex because of his vampire strength.  At this point, the notion of "danger" and "forbidden" goes right out the window; as the books went on, I felt that the previous allure of vampire novels (drinking blood standing in for the sexual act, the desire for blood a synomym for desire of the body) went by the wayside.  It gets very vanilla and very moral, but a different kind of moral than before.

 

I always return to Bram Stoker's Dracula and the character of Lucy, the sacrificial virgin offered up as proof that "bad girls" come to a bad end.  There's really no "bad girl" - just bad vampires offered up as reasons why you shouldn't drink human blood.  The whole thing twists and I hit the reality (during the 4th novel) that Twilight really just masks a plain-old, teenage romance novel with a hunky vampire.  It isn't a novelty.

 

I'm going to try and see Twilight tonight; my friend loves the books so a group of us are going to fight the teenagers (my mother commented it looked like the Beatles alighted on US soil overnight, there was a lot of screaming - she and my dad went to see Bolt).  I'm really more interested in seeing the Harry Potter trailer :smileytongue:


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Sunltcloud
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Re: "Twilight" My first vampire. Help me Ilana! Anybody? Set me straight!

Thanks, Kathy,

 

I am glad I am not the only one who doesn't care to watch or read about blood drinking. Though it beats vomiting, in my mind. I automatically eliminate any movie with such a scene, especially if it forces its trailer upon me at dinner time. 

 

I did see an interview with Stephenie Mayer and I don't deny her the fun of playing with themes, I just sometimes want to slow the clock, or the conversation, or the direction we are heading in. I want to slow down the quick decisions we ask our children to make, based on the presence of instant everything.

  

While I don't need a lecture in every book I read, I am concerned that the messages we send our young are giving them even more to work through than they already have. Isn't it hard enough to resist a hunk when the hormones are blooming? Isn't it difficult enough to separate reality from virtual reality and fiction? Virtual computer game war vs. real war? Junior High crush vs. online romance? Demand for privacy vs. opening your inside to Youtube.

 

I know that some of my reaction to Twilight has to do with my age, maybe teenagers now are much better equipped than I was to deal with conflicting principles and messages. There are no teens in my family right now; I guess I have to make an effort to get to the source and investigate.  


KathyS wrote:


Sunltcloud wrote:

Every once in a while I try something I haven’t done before. No, I don’t attempt to skydive; I don’t want to prove my fearlessness; I already know that I am a coward. My trial outings are of a much tamer kind; for instance today I saw my first vampire movie, “Twilight.” I thought I should find out what all the fuss is about.

 

It's always good to try something different.  But I really don't care to go see this movie, or read Stephenie Mayer's books.  Several of my friends have read them, and love them.  They want to loan them to me.  I say no.  It's her writing that they can't put down.  I'm just not fond of the genre.  I grew out of it.

 

Well, on one hand I was astonished, on the other hand I was disappointed. I now know why young girls find such pleasure in vampire stories; the beauty, brooding, tenderness, undercurrent of violence in the shifting personality of the male hero were overwhelming; I would say they felt almost pornographic in intent without describing or showing erotic behavior. No wonder girls become obsessed with vampires.

 

Well, you just named all of the appeal and pleasure.  I saw the boy who was the lead in this movie, and the girls go nuts over him.  I only liked his English accent.  I don't think girls are obsessed with vampires, just the guys who portray them.

 

What I object to is the approach the filmmaker (and I assume the author) use as far as the genre is concerned. I thought that the lesson was: danger is exciting and it has consequences; if you fall in love with a vampire you risk your life. I was willing to suspend my disbelief and travel into the world of dangerous liaisons. But… “Twilight” offers a vampire who has trained himself to drink only animal blood. He compares himself to a human who eats tofu instead of meat. Of course there is the danger of a relapse and there are other, “bad” vampires who wait on the sidelines. But how can a young girl resist the romantic pull of a “converted” vampire with the face of a young god? Shouldn't there be a price to be paid for such an affair? Isn’t she being short-changed by the author? 

 

Short changed by the author?   I don't think most Authors are moralist. I think this one was having fun with what she wrote about.  I've never seen her interviewed, but I do know she'd never written anything before, and became an instant hit.  Drinking blood just doesn't sit well with me, whether drunk from the thinking, or the non thinking species.

 

Did the writer find it more appealing or just convenient (more profitable) to feed the audience such gentle vampireness? I think it is unfair and irresponsible to distort or weaken the lesson, the lesson in the classical sense: cause and effect. I also wonder if I should pack my bags and go home to hang out with the old folks like Tolstoy and Flaubert. Sure, I feel they taught me well, but maybe modern books and films aren’t supposed to teach lessons. 

 

Do authors think about the fairness, or profit, when writing.  I don't think so.  At least not the ones that have never written a book in their lives, like Mayers.   Everyone looks for what they want out of an author's writing.  I like lessons, myself, and if that's the case, I choose author's along those lines.  But some books are just read for the lightness, or shear enjoyment of watching some stupid character do stupid things - things we would never do, ourselves.  Just shows there are all kinds that make the world go round, and round, and round.


 


 

 
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tgem
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Re: "Twilight" My first vampire. Help me Ilana! Anybody? Set me straight!

Hi Sunlt,

 

I'm not a huge fan of this genre either - but, I'll never forget when an older lady/librarian (meaning older than me at the time) suggested that I read  Interview with the Vampire (Vampire Chronicles Series #1) .  I loved it.  I was also surprised that an older lady would recommend such a provocative and sensuous book. I immediately followed up with The Vampire Lestat (Vampire Chronicles Series #2) .  These are written, as you probably know by Anne Rice, who is now writing about Jesus and Mary, and her journey from darkness to light.

Anne Rice is the kind of writer who could get me into a genre I wouldn't normally get through.  I found myself in a vampire world that seemed very real to me.  Her vampires were definitely vampires, but she leads the reader to be both intrigued, shocked, and feel compassion for these powerful, but at the same time powerless creatures. I can't say the movie version lived up to the book.

Sometimes, when I do try something new, I do like it.

As for the converted vampire - I had a friend who once said - there's nothing better than a bad boy gone good.

 

tgem

ps now I'm the older lady :smileysurprised:   

Melissa_W
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Post-Twilight Movie thoughts

I popped on to see if we'd been skewered by the teenagers for giving Twilight a pass.  Nice to see we're all still alive.

 

We did get to go see the movie.  Did I say "vanilla" before?  Let me change that to very vanilla because there are few dark elements in the film.  I think I'll echo Ebert here in saying it's a movie about two teenagers who love each other because they love each other (I'm paraphrasing).  That makes it sound a little more like Romeo and Juliet, one of Bella's school assignments that was used as a plot element in the book and left out of the film; R&J is used throughout the first two books as a sort of reference point for Bella's and Edward's relationship.  What wasn't shown in the movie was that Edward could seduce Bella at will using his vampire powers; it was really the only "dangerous" element in the book and by dropping that scene Edward becomes just a hot teenage boy, with a hot and rich family, who just happens to like his meat raw and has conflicts about his soul.

 

I thought it was enjoyable, probably because I was expecting to be disappointed and bored.  It's not great cinema (and considering I recently watched M, and that's going on my Christmas list. I've seen some good stuff lately).  However, it's much better than Role Models or any of the Saw movies or any sort of cheap potty-humour movie that seems to be in vogue among the teenage set.

 

oh, and I call "Shenanigans" on whoever said the Harry Potter 6 trailer was going to show before Twilight - it so did not at my theatre and I'm waaaay disappointed :smileyvery-happy:


Sunltcloud wrote:

 

I am looking forward to your take on Twilight after you have seen the movie.


 

Melissa W.
I read and knit and dance. Compulsively feel yarn. Consume books. Darn tights. Drink too much caffiene. All that good stuff.
balletbookworm.blogspot.com
Melissa_W
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Re: "Twilight" My first vampire. Help me Ilana! Anybody? Set me straight!

Wow.  I did not know that.

 

That reminds me, the trailer for Valkyrie was shown ahead of Twilight at my theatre.  Do you have any opinions on this project since it dramatizes the attempt to assassinate Hitler?


Sunltcloud wrote:

 

Else Ury. My favorite author all through childhood into teenage years. She wrote about the most ideal, loving German household in ten books about Annemarie Braun, a "typical" German child. I was in my 40s or 50s when I found out that she had become number 638 under Hitler, and was murdered at Auschwitz in 1943 at the age of 66. I can't EVER forget this.


 

Melissa W.
I read and knit and dance. Compulsively feel yarn. Consume books. Darn tights. Drink too much caffiene. All that good stuff.
balletbookworm.blogspot.com
Inspired Wordsmith
Sunltcloud
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Re: "Twilight" My first vampire. Help me Ilana! Anybody? Set me straight!

I know very little about the film. At one point there was resistance to the project because of Tom Cruise's affiliation with Scientology. Also, I remember reading something about locals complaining that Nazi symbols were posted in the streets where the filming took place. It took Germans a very long time to recuperate from the shame and I understand that Berliners don't like to be reminded of the part the city played in the Third Reich. Besides, it is illegal to display anything connected with the Reich publicly and it must have shocked some of the older people. But, like all good representatives of a free market society, Berlin sees the advantage of getting free publicity. I've visited WWII historical sites in Berlin and Munich and found them depressing.

 

Though I am glad that Claus von Stauffenberg is honored as the hero in a movie about the resistance, I will not go to see it. The only WWII film I have seen is Schindler's list and it still haunts me. When I was on vacation recently in the Channel Islands I visited several museums and had to listen to Nazi propaganda songs in a converted bunker, and my stomach churned. When I was six a Nazi officer pushed my mother down the staircase to the cellar (our air raid shelter) while he was searching our house for French soldiers. I guess German officers will stay on my "verboten" list. (I haven't made up my mind about vampires yet.)

 


Wow.  I did not know that.

 

That reminds me, the trailer for Valkyrie was shown ahead of Twilight at my theatre.  Do you have any opinions on this project since it dramatizes the attempt to assassinate Hitler?


Sunltcloud wrote:

 

Else Ury. My favorite author all through childhood into teenage years. She wrote about the most ideal, loving German household in ten books about Annemarie Braun, a "typical" German child. I was in my 40s or 50s when I found out that she had become number 638 under Hitler, and was murdered at Auschwitz in 1943 at the age of 66. I can't EVER forget this.


 


 

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Sunltcloud
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Re: "Twilight" My first vampire. Help me Ilana! Anybody? Set me straight!

I almost ordered Interview with the Vampire tonight but then decided to sleep on it first. As for trying something new, it usually works for me with food. And isn't it interesting how we find ourselves sliding from one age group into the next one? One morning I woke up, looked in the mirror..... and saw my grandmother. I had no problem with 40, 50, or 60, but 70 depressed me. It became an expensive birthday; I bought myself a trip abroad. Unfortunately I came back to the same mirror.
tgem wrote:

Sometimes, when I do try something new, I do like it.

As for the converted vampire - I had a friend who once said - there's nothing better than a bad boy gone good.

 

tgem

ps now I'm the older lady :smileysurprised:   


 

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TiggerBear
Posts: 9,489
Registered: ‎02-12-2008

Re: "Twilight" My first vampire. Help me Ilana! Anybody? Set me straight!


Sunltcloud wrote:

Every once in a while I try something I haven’t done before. No, I don’t attempt to skydive; I don’t want to prove my fearlessness; I already know that I am a coward. My trial outings are of a much tamer kind; for instance today I saw my first vampire movie, “Twilight.” I thought I should find out what all the fuss is about.

 

Well, on one hand I was astonished, on the other hand I was disappointed. I now know why young girls find such pleasure in vampire stories; the beauty, brooding, tenderness, undercurrent of violence in the shifting personality of the male hero were overwhelming; I would say they felt almost pornographic in intent without describing or showing erotic behavior. No wonder girls become obsessed with vampires.

 

What I object to is the approach the filmmaker (and I assume the author) use as far as the genre is concerned. I thought that the lesson was: danger is exciting and it has consequences; if you fall in love with a vampire you risk your life. I was willing to suspend my disbelief and travel into the world of dangerous liaisons. But… “Twilight” offers a vampire who has trained himself to drink only animal blood. He compares himself to a human who eats tofu instead of meat. Of course there is the danger of a relapse and there are other, “bad” vampires who wait on the sidelines. But how can a young girl resist the romantic pull of a “converted” vampire with the face of a young god? Shouldn't there be a price to be paid for such an affair? Isn’t she being short-changed by the author? 

 

Did the writer find it more appealing or just convenient (more profitable) to feed the audience such gentle vampireness? I think it is unfair and irresponsible to distort or weaken the lesson, the lesson in the classical sense: cause and effect. I also wonder if I should pack my bags and go home to hang out with the old folks like Tolstoy and Flaubert. Sure, I feel they taught me well, but maybe modern books and films aren’t supposed to teach lessons. 


  Firstly let me say I am a bit flabergasted by the fact that until now you've never seen a Vampire movie or read a Vampire book prior to now. (shaking head) You odviously live on a seperate planet than I do.

 

 Truthfully I'm not sure whether it is a good or bad thing that your first experiance was with a woefully watered down piece of teenage melodrama poorly clothed in the smallest shadow of Vampire lore. The simplest way to put it is (shudder) I hate fangless Vampires. The author decided to cash in on a recent upgrowth of a popular genre. She used little of any cultural mythology on the subject. If you read the book her's have more in common with a fae than an actual Vampire. And I've stated this before elsewhere. I'd give her more credit had she created her own creature rather than watered down one to the point of anonimity. Not to mention there are better pieces of teen melodrama if that's what one's looking for. The books are just waayyy soso.

 

 The movie's even a waterdown version of the book. You experianced a drop of wine in a flagon of water.

 

 You limit the enjoyment of Vampires to teenagers? Or is it the obsession over these books you find so bewildering? To the second, it's the current new thing  of course. To the first, well I could write a book or two. Allow me to simplify. There are only three creatures that cross almost universally cultures and times in human history; Vampires, Ghosts, and Dragons.  They have continueing meaning to humanity as a whole. Vampires represent death, danger, sex, and imortality. A most potent cocktail to interest. There are several books out there socialogical and anthroploogical on awareness of sex and sexually transmitted diseses and the rises of Vampire literature popularity. But one could easily credit the recent upsurge to a simple thing a great many of us grew up digging these storys up as treasures. They are just chatching on to what we were always willing to by. 

 

 As to any lesson, (rapid head shake) it's a movie. A lot of us go to them to be entertained, nothing more.

 

 

 

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Re: Post-Twilight Movie thoughts

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Sunltcloud
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Re: "Twilight" My first vampire. Help me Ilana! Anybody? Set me straight!

 

TiggerBear,

 

Forgive me for not having dug into the mythology of vampires, ghosts, and dragons earlier. To make up for lost opportunities I just checked my Larousse Encyclopedia of Mythology; I found ghosts and dragons but no vampires. I knew about “demonic entities and blood-drinking spirits, which are considered to be precursors to modern vampires,” (Wikipedia) and of course I have heard of Bram Stoker’s “Dracula,” but I had just never taken the time to explore the territory.

 

The other day, watching TV, I did wonder why teen-girls were enamored with vampires; I could think of much more engaging characters from the movies of my teens. Why would I have stood in line waiting for a blood- sucking monster to appear? I found my answer in the extremely seductive hunk of “Twilight,” who didn’t look at all like the monster I had expected. But, sorry, I still find James Dean in Rebel without a Cause” more interesting than the hunky vampire. Maybe if I had developed an interest in vampires in my teen years, I could draw on that now, but I was busy with having to learn Latin, Greek, French, English, Spanish, and of course German. I did read a lot, mostly classics, travelogues, historical fiction and nonfiction, poetry, and occasionally a romantic novel (hidden under the bed out of the reach of my parents.)

 

I can’t remember ever coming across a book about vampires in Germany, besides “Dracula”, and by the time Anne Rice wrote: “Interview with the Vampire”  (which was translated into German) I had already left; as a matter of fact, I was a forty-year old divorceé in sunny California and much more interested in real men.

 

Of course now I have to read “Interview with the Vampire.”  


TiggerBear wrote: 

 

  Firstly let me say I am a bit flabergasted by the fact that until now you've never seen a Vampire movie or read a Vampire book prior to now. (shaking head) You odviously live on a seperate planet than I do.

 

 Truthfully I'm not sure whether it is a good or bad thing that your first experiance was with a woefully watered down piece of teenage melodrama poorly clothed in the smallest shadow of Vampire lore. The simplest way to put it is (shudder) I hate fangless Vampires. The author decided to cash in on a recent upgrowth of a popular genre. She used little of any cultural mythology on the subject. If you read the book her's have more in common with a fae than an actual Vampire. And I've stated this before elsewhere. I'd give her more credit had she created her own creature rather than watered down one to the point of anonimity. Not to mention there are better pieces of teen melodrama if that's what one's looking for. The books are just waayyy soso.

 

 The movie's even a waterdown version of the book. You experianced a drop of wine in a flagon of water.

 

 You limit the enjoyment of Vampires to teenagers? Or is it the obsession over these books you find so bewildering? To the second, it's the current new thing  of course. To the first, well I could write a book or two. Allow me to simplify. There are only three creatures that cross almost universally cultures and times in human history; Vampires, Ghosts, and Dragons.  They have continueing meaning to humanity as a whole. Vampires represent death, danger, sex, and imortality. A most potent cocktail to interest. There are several books out there socialogical and anthroploogical on awareness of sex and sexually transmitted diseses and the rises of Vampire literature popularity. But one could easily credit the recent upsurge to a simple thing a great many of us grew up digging these storys up as treasures. They are just chatching on to what we were always willing to by. 

 

 As to any lesson, (rapid head shake) it's a movie. A lot of us go to them to be entertained, nothing more.

 

 

 


 

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Sunltcloud
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Re: Post-Twilight Movie thoughts

 

 Thanks tgem! One has put Dracula on the list of books to buy. Today one found "Interview with the Vampire" at the second hand bookstore, took it home, piled it on the big stack of books to be read. One is always happy to add to the task. :smileyvery-happy:


tgem wrote:

One must read: Dracula (Barnes & Noble Classics Series)  and view Nosferatu (2-Disc Special Edition) or Nosferatu Phantom Der .

 

tgem 


 

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Re: "Twilight" My first vampire. Help me Ilana! Anybody? Set me straight!


Sunltcloud wrote:

 

TiggerBear,

 

Forgive me for not having dug into the mythology of vampires, ghosts, and dragons earlier. To make up for lost opportunities I just checked my Larousse Encyclopedia of Mythology; I found ghosts and dragons but no vampires. I knew aboutdemonic entities and blood-drinking spirits, which are considered to be precursors to modern vampires,” (Wikipedia) and of course I have heard of Bram StokersDracula,” but I had just never taken the time to explore the territory.

 

The other day, watching TV, I did wonder why teen-girls were enamored with vampires; I could think of much more engaging characters from the movies of my teens. Why would I have stood in line waiting for a blood- sucking monster to appear? I found my answer in the extremely seductive hunk ofTwilight,” who didnt look at all like the monster I had expected. But, sorry, I still find James Dean in Rebel without a Causemore interesting than the hunky vampire. Maybe if I had developed an interest in vampires in my teen years, I could draw on that now, but I was busy with having to learn Latin, Greek, French, English, Spanish, and of course German. I did read a lot, mostly classics, travelogues, historical fiction and nonfiction, poetry, and occasionally a romantic novel (hidden under the bed out of the reach of my parents.)

 

I cant remember ever coming across a book about vampires in Germany, besidesDracula”, and by the time Anne Rice wrote: “Interview with the Vampire  (which was translated into German) I had already left; as a matter of fact, I was a forty-year old divorceé in sunny California and much more interested in real men.

 

Of course now I have to readInterview with the Vampire.”  


 

 

 


 


I don't think I have anything to forgive. You statement just seemed very odd to me, not offensive

 

James Dean was, in his day the utmost dark tragic sexy figure. So you do have an undertstanding, just in a different context.

 

You are focusing on the actor of Twilight, but I can assure you 99% were already obsessed by the books long before that actor was selected.

 

Germany hmm, a lot of Vampire mythology coming out of your neck of the woods and nearby eastern europe. And it was the German's who made those propaganda woodcuts of Vlad Tepes eating dinner surrounded by a field of impaled people. It seems odd to me you never in your childhood were even told a vampire monster story. (shrug) But mabey you were not told monster stories as a child. Everyone's different

 

May I recommend you check out the Classic Monster Primer over in paranormal. Myself and others have put up a nice list of the classics. And for a modern approach Genre Primer for Newbies and othersThere is a whole world you've been unaware of.

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Re: "Twilight" My first vampire. Help me Ilana! Anybody? Set me straight!


Sunltcloud wrote:

Every once in a while I try something I haven’t done before. No, I don’t attempt to skydive; I don’t want to prove my fearlessness; I already know that I am a coward. My trial outings are of a much tamer kind; for instance today I saw my first vampire movie, “Twilight.” I thought I should find out what all the fuss is about.

 

Well, on one hand I was astonished, on the other hand I was disappointed. I now know why young girls find such pleasure in vampire stories; the beauty, brooding, tenderness, undercurrent of violence in the shifting personality of the male hero were overwhelming; I would say they felt almost pornographic in intent without describing or showing erotic behavior. No wonder girls become obsessed with vampires.

 

What I object to is the approach the filmmaker (and I assume the author) use as far as the genre is concerned. I thought that the lesson was: danger is exciting and it has consequences; if you fall in love with a vampire you risk your life. I was willing to suspend my disbelief and travel into the world of dangerous liaisons. But… “Twilight” offers a vampire who has trained himself to drink only animal blood. He compares himself to a human who eats tofu instead of meat. Of course there is the danger of a relapse and there are other, “bad” vampires who wait on the sidelines. But how can a young girl resist the romantic pull of a “converted” vampire with the face of a young god? Shouldn't there be a price to be paid for such an affair? Isn’t she being short-changed by the author? 

 

Did the writer find it more appealing or just convenient (more profitable) to feed the audience such gentle vampireness? I think it is unfair and irresponsible to distort or weaken the lesson, the lesson in the classical sense: cause and effect. I also wonder if I should pack my bags and go home to hang out with the old folks like Tolstoy and Flaubert. Sure, I feel they taught me well, but maybe modern books and films aren’t supposed to teach lessons. 


i have read all of the twilight saga. and love them! and btw i read them and then saw the movie! and what is so bad about a vampire not drinking human blood? and yes i am one of thoughs girls who thinks the robert( edward) is amazingly cute, but that NOT y i like the books/ movie. i like them because they are good. i just started the host and so far like it. almost every girl in my school has or is reading the saga. even some boys i can think of 3 just in my reading class. i liked it cuz i didnt want to put it down i read it in one day! s. meyer is a great wrighter and if you dont like twilight ur own loss

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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twilightfreek08
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Re: "Twilight" My first vampire. Help me Ilana! Anybody? Set me straight!


Sunltcloud wrote:

Melissa, thank you so much for answering so many of my questions.

 

Co-dependency -  that's the expression I was looking for. The myth of not being able to live without each other is reinforced. It's not so much that I was looking for lessons as for guidance. Allowing young girls to dream and swoon is one thing but blinding them to danger is something else. You mentioned the word vanilla. Good point. 

 

 Conventional vampire myths - I guess that's what I epected. I knew about them, but was never interested in blood sucking creatures whether it was in the form of hero or anti-hero story. I grew up with adventure stories and stories about young girls who played with dolls, were sent to camp, did good deeds. It was, as I found out later, a superficially honest world, the lectures worked, but were based on false values (in my opinion.)

 

For instance: Karl May. He was a German author who had never been in America but wrote the cowboy and Indian stories German boys read. I think most of them were written in jail.

 

Else Ury. My favorite author all through childhood into teenage years. She wrote about the most ideal, loving German household in ten books about Annemarie Braun, a "typical" German child. I was in my 40s or 50s when I found out that she had become number 638 under Hitler, and was murdered at Auschwitz in 1943 at the age of 66. I can't EVER forget this.

 

S. Woerishoeffer. I thought he was a really smart man because he wrote so knowingly about Africa in "The Ship of Naturalists," a book I read over and over. Besides fascinating creaturs and botanical oddities, he also encountered maneaters. What I didn't understand then was the blatant racism that went into the book. And what the publishers hid (because the books were so successful and lucrative) was the fact that S. W. was a woman who never left Germany. She worked from maps and magazines they supplied her with.

 

Sometimes I shudder at the thought of having been fed stereotypes and lies for so many years of my life. My stepfather admired colonialism as an era of adventure. My mother admired imagination. Teachers followed orders. Didn't anybody ever question facts? Tell the truth? In later years I had to wade through lots of material to sort out fact and fiction, good and bad, healthy and unhealthy. And to keep on resolving inner conflicts I try to be open minded. I'm still wading.

 

I am looking forward to your take on Twilight after you have seen the movie.

 

 

 

 


Twilight is your first vampire movie?  Wow, I think I assume that everyone sees Bela Lugosi as Dracula for their first vampire flick.

 

I've read all four Twilight novels (and Meyer's adult novel The Host) and while I thought the first one was engaging (the rest of them less so as the series went along) I'll outline some problems I have with the novels.  One thing that the novels do away with are conventional vampire myths: sunlight, staking, garlic, familiars.  Meyer transforms the Transylvanian Dracula into a 21st century ultimate predator.  All senses are heightened (sight, touch, scent, hearing, taste for blood), a vampire is physically attractive as a lure to prey (humans), and possessed of superhuman speed and strength.  Gee, what's a normal girl to do?  Vampires now look like underwear models and can lure their victims in just by looking hot. The whole idea of preying on an unsuspecting, "innocent" victim changes to where the victim participates in her own demise by succumbing to the vampire's lures before he drinks her blood.

 

Bella and Edward have probably the most unhealthy relationship I've ever seen in a teen novel (s).  Co-dependent comes to mind; by the time book 2 and 3 rolled around Bella and Edward decided that neither could live without the other taking a normal teenage feeling (something explored in Judy Blume's Forever) to eternity.  So there's a dilemma: Bella wants to be a vampire to stay with Edward, but Edward doesn't want to deprive her of her humanness (this gets solved in book 4). This keeps going back and forth, at one point Edward deciding to have himself killed if Bella ever dies.

 

The other issue that creeps into the novels is teen sex.  The thing is, Bella and Edward are not married (Edward is a vampire with old-fashioned notions) and, with Edward being a vampire, he could kill her by accident during sex because of his vampire strength.  At this point, the notion of "danger" and "forbidden" goes right out the window; as the books went on, I felt that the previous allure of vampire novels (drinking blood standing in for the sexual act, the desire for blood a synomym for desire of the body) went by the wayside.  It gets very vanilla and very moral, but a different kind of moral than before.

 

I always return to Bram Stoker's Dracula and the character of Lucy, the sacrificial virgin offered up as proof that "bad girls" come to a bad end.  There's really no "bad girl" - just bad vampires offered up as reasons why you shouldn't drink human blood.  The whole thing twists and I hit the reality (during the 4th novel) that Twilight really just masks a plain-old, teenage romance novel with a hunky vampire.  It isn't a novelty.

 

I'm going to try and see Twilight tonight; my friend loves the books so a group of us are going to fight the teenagers (my mother commented it looked like the Beatles alighted on US soil overnight, there was a lot of screaming - she and my dad went to see Bolt).  I'm really more interested in seeing the Harry Potter trailer :smileytongue:



i sawTwilight and read all the books and i am so so sorry that you grew up on books with adventure stories and stories about young girls who played with dolls were sent to camp and did good deeds. now i might b wrong but did you grow up in the 1800's? girls are all about love romance vampires and all that stuff i have never been sent to camp and i hardly played with dolls. listen this is the era where girls are going to want hot burning passon movies about vampires! and when the book is a top seller of corse they are going to make it in to a movie! and of corse they are going to have a freeken hot guy to play the lead role! tht is how it works and not to menchion he is a great actor! 

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twilightfreek08
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Re: Post-Twilight Movie thoughts


pedsphleb wrote:

I popped on to see if we'd been skewered by the teenagers for giving Twilight a pass.  Nice to see we're all still alive.

 

We did get to go see the movie.  Did I say "vanilla" before?  Let me change that to very vanilla because there are few dark elements in the film.  I think I'll echo Ebert here in saying it's a movie about two teenagers who love each other because they love each other (I'm paraphrasing).  That makes it sound a little more like Romeo and Juliet, one of Bella's school assignments that was used as a plot element in the book and left out of the film; R&J is used throughout the first two books as a sort of reference point for Bella's and Edward's relationship.  What wasn't shown in the movie was that Edward could seduce Bella at will using his vampire powers; it was really the only "dangerous" element in the book and by dropping that scene Edward becomes just a hot teenage boy, with a hot and rich family, who just happens to like his meat raw and has conflicts about his soul.

 

I thought it was enjoyable, probably because I was expecting to be disappointed and bored.  It's not great cinema (and considering I recently watched M, and that's going on my Christmas list. I've seen some good stuff lately).  However, it's much better than Role Models or any of the Saw movies or any sort of cheap potty-humour movie that seems to be in vogue among the teenage set.

 

oh, and I call "Shenanigans" on whoever said the Harry Potter 6 trailer was going to show before Twilight - it so did not at my theatre and I'm waaaay disappointed :smileyvery-happy:


Sunltcloud wrote:

 

I am looking forward to your take on Twilight after you have seen the movie.


 


I think I'll echo Ebert here in saying it's a movie about two teenagers who love each other because they love each other (I'm paraphrasing).  That makes it sound a little more like Romeo and Juliet, one of Bella's school assignments that was used as a plot element in the book and left out of the film; R&J is used throughout the first two books as a sort of reference point for Bella's and Edward's relationship.  What wasn't shown in the movie was that Edward could seduce Bella at will using his vampire powers; it was really the only "dangerous" element in the book and by dropping that scene Edward becomes just a hot teenage boy, with a hot and rich family, who just happens to like his meat raw and has conflicts about his soul.

thank you somuch u took the words out of my mouth!!!!!!! they fall in love because they love each other for gods sake! just because he is a vampire dosnt mean she cant love him! she liked him the moment she saw him and she didnt know he was a vampire all she knew was that him and his family keep to them selfs . and when she dose figer out he is a vampire shes not scared that has to count for somthing! if shes not scared y dose it madder!!!!??? and it is like Romeo adn Juliet. and its dose reference to the film to describe their relationship! big deal if he is a really hot boywith a "vegiatrin" diet for vamps? i mean it dose help with the whole "vegitarin" thing and ya it helps that he is the hottest boy in the school and she is the newbee and he picks her but the girls in the school not being "good" anoff for him made me wonder what tipe of good? i think the whole blood good cuz he is a vamp but it could mean he dosnt like the way they look. but there prob were a lot better looking girls cuz bella is just kinda plane. and he picked her! so maybe it started out as the blood then became like or not idk. i think it would b weird to here from your boyfriend tht he likes waching ou sleep. tht is a little....... odd( or a lot). but all around i like the movie/ books!

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Re: "Twilight" My first vampire. Help me Ilana! Anybody? Set me straight!



  


 

 

 


 


I don't think I have anything to forgive. You statement just seemed very odd to me, not offensive

 

James Dean was, in his day the utmost dark tragic sexy figure. So you do have an undertstanding, just in a different context.

 

You are focusing on the actor of Twilight, but I can assure you 99% were already obsessed by the books long before that actor was selected.

 

Germany hmm, a lot of Vampire mythology coming out of your neck of the woods and nearby eastern europe. And it was the German's who made those propaganda woodcuts of Vlad Tepes eating dinner surrounded by a field of impaled people. It seems odd to me you never in your childhood were even told a vampire monster story. (shrug) But mabey you were not told monster stories as a child. Everyone's different

 

May I recommend you check out the Classic Monster Primer over in paranormal. Myself and others have put up a nice list of the classics. And for a modern approach Genre Primer for Newbies and othersThere is a whole world you've been unaware of.


THANK YOU THANK YOU YOUR 99% THING I THINK IS WRIGHT I DIDNT READ IT IN TELL 5 DAYS B4 ITCAME OUT BUT MY SIS WAS TALKING BOUT IT ALL THE TIME AND SO I WAS ALL READYOBSESSED BY IT AND YES I WILL SAY EDWARD IN THE MOVIE IS REALLY CUTE! BUT I STILL LIKE THE BOOK MORE THEN THE MOVIE!

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Everyman
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Re: Post-Twilight Movie thoughts

I've heard Twilight referred to as a girl book, and girl movie.  Just wondering, are there boys who also like the book and/or movie?  If so, just a few, or many?
_______________
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