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CRANFORD: Chapters Five through Eight
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04-04-2011 02:36 PM
Please use this thread for discussion of Chapters Five through Eight of Cranford. Please clearly mark a SPOILER WARNING if your post references scenes later in the book.
I read and knit and dance. Compulsively feel yarn. Consume books. Darn tights. Drink too much caffiene. All that good stuff.
balletbookworm.blogspot.com
Re: CRANFORD: Chapters Five through Eight
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04-13-2011 06:33 PM
From what I understand from the introduction to my edition (Oxford World's Classics), Gaskell wrote the first eight chapters of Cranford, with each installment in Household Words consisting of two chapters, then took a long break to finish and publish Ruth (which she had begun prior to starting Cranford), and then came back and wrote the last eight chapters of Cranford. I have not started the next section yet, but I expect there to be a different tone to the last half of the book.
In this selection, the idea of each pair of chapters comprising one installment is rather clear. Chapters 5 and 6 really fill out the story of the Jenkyns family, while 7 and 8 deal with society in Cranford. To my mind, I thought of these as 'interior' vs. 'exterior' stories.
In Chapter 5, Old Letters, we learn about the deceased members of Miss Matty's family, from her grandparents, her parents, and Deborah. Gaskell presents a contrast between the male and female letters. The men tend to write about more broad and theoretical topics, such as the responsibility of raising children (from the grandfather upon Deborah's birth), romantic declarations (from the Rector to his bride-to-be), and lapses into Latin (later from the Rector). The women speak of more everyday matters, such as the grandmother's specific directions about the care of the infant, the bride-to-be's obsession over her wardrobe, later the wife's concern about the livestock (she wishes that her husband would tell her what to do, rather than write in Latin, which she probably cannot even understand). Later, Deborah's letters fall more into the masculine mold, and Mary gets quite bored with them, and prefers Miss Matty's more feminine letters with news about what goes on in Cranford. With the letters from the prior generations, Miss Matty and Mary each read separate letters and share them, but when it comes to Deborah's letters, Miss Matty chooses to read them all herself. Also, she destroys the letters from her parents and grandparents, since there are few if any people left who actually knew them, while she prefers to keep Deborah's letters as being of more importance since plenty of her friends still exist. In the introduction, the commentator equates this with the transitory nature of time, where old memories of time past lose their importance and fade away.
In Chapter 6, Poor Peter, we learn the story of the long-absent brother Peter Jenkyns. It seems that the Rector had high hopes for Peter, but he was not intellectual (he probably took after his mother in this respect, judging from her letters in the previous chapter). When Peter's academic career did not work out, the Rector turned more to Deborah, who embodied more of the masculine traits that Peter lacked, and obviously took after their father more. Peter was fond of practical jokes, especially when they involved cross-dressing. He managed to take his father in by dressing as a woman and appealing to his pride in his sermons, asking for a copy of a series of them. The father took this quite seriously, and undertook to provide a copy, but it backfired on Peter, who had to copy them out, a task that he did not enjoy. Later Peter crossed the line. When Deborah had been away from home for a while, he dressed in her clothes and walked in the garden with a pillow he had dressed as a baby, causing the neighbors to believe that Deborah had gone away to have an illegitimate child and had returned with it. The Rector beat Peter violently, and Peter ran away, which broke his parents' hearts, causing his mother to weaken and eventually die. At one point Peter, who had gone to sea, came back for a short visit, and he and the father got on very well, somewhat displacing Deborah from her favored status until Peter left again.
I was glad to read this account, because in the miniseries it had not been so clear to me. I had gotten the impression that Peter was mentally ill and that was why he was cross-dressing and pretending he had a baby. Instead, it was a rather cruel practical joke.
Grand Dame of the Land of Oz, Duchess of Fantasia, in the Kingdom of Wordsmithonia; also, Poet Laureate of the Kingdom of Wordsmithonia
Re: CRANFORD: Chapters Five through Eight
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04-14-2011 02:47 PM
Poor Peter indeed! I'm probably going to watch the miniseries this weekend - it surprises me that the scriptwriter would have hinted that Peter was ill as opposed to just naught because having a mentally deficient blood relative was far more damming to a family than having a child who played practical jokes.
dulcinea3 wrote:
I was glad to read this account, because in the miniseries it had not been so clear to me. I had gotten the impression that Peter was mentally ill and that was why he was cross-dressing and pretending he had a baby. Instead, it was a rather cruel practical joke.
I read and knit and dance. Compulsively feel yarn. Consume books. Darn tights. Drink too much caffiene. All that good stuff.
balletbookworm.blogspot.com
Re: CRANFORD: Chapters Five through Eight
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04-14-2011 02:55 PM
Melissa_W wrote:Poor Peter indeed! I'm probably going to watch the miniseries this weekend - it surprises me that the scriptwriter would have hinted that Peter was ill as opposed to just naught because having a mentally deficient blood relative was far more damming to a family than having a child who played practical jokes.
dulcinea3 wrote:
I was glad to read this account, because in the miniseries it had not been so clear to me. I had gotten the impression that Peter was mentally ill and that was why he was cross-dressing and pretending he had a baby. Instead, it was a rather cruel practical joke.
Well, that was my impression from the way it was presented; you may interpret it differently. I'll try to rewatch both miniseries at some point by the time we are done with the novel, and so refresh my memory a bit better. In the meantime, I'll be interested in what your conclusion as to Peter's motives are from seeing it. I think they said he was wearing Deborah's clothes, but I don't think I came away from it thinking that he was actually impersonating Deborah having come home with a baby. I think I thought they were rather vague about it; maybe I was just being dense!
Grand Dame of the Land of Oz, Duchess of Fantasia, in the Kingdom of Wordsmithonia; also, Poet Laureate of the Kingdom of Wordsmithonia
Re: CRANFORD: Chapters Five through Eight
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04-14-2011 03:03 PM
Melissa_W wrote:Poor Peter indeed! I'm probably going to watch the miniseries this weekend - it surprises me that the scriptwriter would have hinted that Peter was ill as opposed to just naught because having a mentally deficient blood relative was far more damming to a family than having a child who played practical jokes.
dulcinea3 wrote:
I was glad to read this account, because in the miniseries it had not been so clear to me. I had gotten the impression that Peter was mentally ill and that was why he was cross-dressing and pretending he had a baby. Instead, it was a rather cruel practical joke.
Actually, I find these allusions on Gaskell's part rather surprising. However, I am also surprised that the mini-series treats them as symptons of mental illness.
The back of the CD holder says Mrs. Gaskell was a rector's wife and this exposed her to a wide swath of people.
Kissing!
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04-18-2011 01:54 PM
I was looking back over this section and had a chuckle at the end of Chapter Six - Miss Matty has gone to see if Martha has come back and gets a bit flustered when she hears Martha and Jem kissing outside the door! ![]()
I read and knit and dance. Compulsively feel yarn. Consume books. Darn tights. Drink too much caffiene. All that good stuff.
balletbookworm.blogspot.com
Chapter 7 "Visiting" and Chapter 8 "Your Ladyship"
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04-18-2011 02:21 PM
These two chapters, IMO, are Gaskell's attempt to shed light on the emptiness and pettiness of some of the Cranford ladies' lives (and, by extension, the lives of middle-class gentlewomen).
In Chapter 7, Miss Betty Barker (formerly a ladies' maid and milliner to the "aristocratic" members of the neighborhood) calls on Miss Matty in invite her to tea. Mrs. Jamieson, Miss Pole, and Mrs. Forrester are all invited, but not Mrs. Fitz-Adam - leading to a long explanation by Mary about why Mrs. Fitz-Adam is not quite on a par with the rest of the Cranford ladies.
Chapter 8 describes the arrival of Mrs. Jamieson's widowed sister-in-law, Lady Glenmire. The Cranford ladies worry about the correct forms of address but Mrs. Jamieson (rather rudely) informs them that they are not to call on Lady Glenmire as she is of a higher class (Miss Pole finds, in Mrs. Forrester's copy of Debrett's Peerage, that Lady Glenmire is the widow of a Scotch baron who never sat in the House of Lords because he is a Scotch peer, not to mention being poor). Mrs. Jamieson soon sends an invitation to a party...Mary has a rather tart explanation for this. It's all rather like high school, isn't it? This chapter also affords us an amusing look at Mrs. Jamieson's house and her strange butler, Mulliner.
I read and knit and dance. Compulsively feel yarn. Consume books. Darn tights. Drink too much caffiene. All that good stuff.
balletbookworm.blogspot.com
Re: Kissing!
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04-18-2011 05:20 PM
Melissa_W wrote:I was looking back over this section and had a chuckle at the end of Chapter Six - Miss Matty has gone to see if Martha has come back and gets a bit flustered when she hears Martha and Jem kissing outside the door!
Yes, I thought that they must be very loud kissers! ![]()
Grand Dame of the Land of Oz, Duchess of Fantasia, in the Kingdom of Wordsmithonia; also, Poet Laureate of the Kingdom of Wordsmithonia
Re: Kissing!
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04-18-2011 10:33 PM - edited 04-18-2011 10:34 PM
dulcinea3 wrote:
Melissa_W wrote:I was looking back over this section and had a chuckle at the end of Chapter Six - Miss Matty has gone to see if Martha has come back and gets a bit flustered when she hears Martha and Jem kissing outside the door!
Yes, I thought that they must be very loud kissers!
Listening to this book, I am provided so many chuckles! I adore it, which is not an expression I use about a book very often. Most of these women are absolute dears, despite their peculiar little habits and demands--some of which have messed up lives for years and years.
Re: Chapter 7 "Visiting" and Chapter 8 "Your Ladyship"
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04-21-2011 08:36 PM - edited 04-21-2011 08:53 PM
Melissa_W wrote:These two chapters, IMO, are Gaskell's attempt to shed light on the emptiness and pettiness of some of the Cranford ladies' lives (and, by extension, the lives of middle-class gentlewomen).
In Chapter 7, Miss Betty Barker (formerly a ladies' maid and milliner to the "aristocratic" members of the neighborhood) calls on Miss Matty in invite her to tea. Mrs. Jamieson, Miss Pole, and Mrs. Forrester are all invited, but not Mrs. Fitz-Adam - leading to a long explanation by Mary about why Mrs. Fitz-Adam is not quite on a par with the rest of the Cranford ladies.
Chapter 8 describes the arrival of Mrs. Jamieson's widowed sister-in-law, Lady Glenmire. The Cranford ladies worry about the correct forms of address but Mrs. Jamieson (rather rudely) informs them that they are not to call on Lady Glenmire as she is of a higher class (Miss Pole finds, in Mrs. Forrester's copy of Debrett's Peerage, that Lady Glenmire is the widow of a Scotch baron who never sat in the House of Lords because he is a Scotch peer, not to mention being poor). Mrs. Jamieson soon sends an invitation to a party...Mary has a rather tart explanation for this. It's all rather like high school, isn't it? This chapter also affords us an amusing look at Mrs. Jamieson's house and her strange butler, Mulliner.
These chapters really illustrate that there is a pecking order among the ladies of Cranford. Mrs. Jamieson is the highest-class of them, and also clearly the most snobbish. The other ladies have to be careful not to offend her. Betty Barker is, on the other hand, below most of them, and her behavior when she comes to invite Miss Matty reveals that she is very aware of this. She keeps almost apologizing for the invitation! As if it is impertinent of her to expect Miss Matty to grace her home. She and her sister have tried to create an impression of gentility by only serving those of a higher status in their shop (how much this reminds me of the sisters in Lark Rise to Candleford who run the dress shop! Pearl practically runs off anyone from Lark Rise who dares think they can shop there). Perhaps this is why she feels she has a right to invite Mrs. Jamieson. They have a connection, but her sister was maid to Mrs. Jamieson, which hardly makes them equals. Once she has secured Mrs. Jamieson, she must not invite anyone below a certain perceived status. I wonder if Mrs. Fitz-Adam would have been acceptable if all of the ladies except Mrs. Jamieson were coming! Between this event and Mrs. Jamieson's later snubbing of her usual companions as not fit to associate with her sister, it seems that Mrs. Jamieson is the source of much of the snobbery going on in Cranford.
Once she has decided to allow the other ladies to meet her sister, after all, their reactions are quite amusing. On the one hand, they are so insulted that they don't want to go. At the same time, they are most curious to meet Lady Glenmire. Luckily for them all, Miss Pole reasons her way into it, and they can follow! It's clear that Lady Glenmire is not the snob that her sister-in-law is. I wonder if there is some stereotyping here that the Scots are more down-to-earth and practical; after all, Lady Glenmire is not exactly rich or distinguished. She fits right in with Cranford society.
And Mulliner is certainly an odd duck! He doesn't seem genteel enough to suit Mrs. Jamieson, but I suppose having a manservant of any type makes her feel a cut above the ladies who only have a maid. We also see a bit of minor snobbery in that the others don't mind waiting for Mrs. Jamieson to read the paper, but once they realize that it is really Mulliner who is holding it up, they resent it.
Grand Dame of the Land of Oz, Duchess of Fantasia, in the Kingdom of Wordsmithonia; also, Poet Laureate of the Kingdom of Wordsmithonia
Re: Chapter 7 "Visiting" and Chapter 8 "Your Ladyship"
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04-22-2011 12:11 AM
These petty shenanigans are crazy. But what a gift Mrs. Glaskell has for noticing them and recording them for us to enjoy!
Re: Chapter 7 "Visiting" and Chapter 8 "Your Ladyship"
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05-06-2011 08:39 AM
Oh, dear! I am so far behind in my reading, not sure I'll ever "catch up". But, I finished Bush's Decision Points (it is not read by him, as this link indicates -- does B&N have any place to forward little errors like this so they can eventually be corrected?) on Monday and have returned to Cranford. As you know, I messed myself up completely on this one -- still uncertain whether I loaned my copy or have deep ended it in a stack of books someplace! But, I have had both a library copy and the audio CD version for awhile now (as well as the video, so I am just glad our system does have multiple copies, but I do want to get them back). This morning I listened to and read chapters 7, 8 and 9. I find I miss little things if I only listen, and since this is a re-read/re-listen for me, it is rather fun to notice many of them in Glaskell's writing, since it is the little things that are part of what make her delightful, at least in my estimation. Not that I will remember them, any more than I would on a first rapid read. But, the experience while reading is pleasure. I also think she helps me notice little things that it is more my personality to rather slide across or ignore. I also continue to find the recording very well done, except for those characters where the reader uses change of pace to indicate the new voice and it can become so rapid as to take real concentration to decipher and follow what is being said.
It particularly amused me this morning to note that the story of the cat and the lace was told to the visiting Scottish lady after all the concern about proper topics of conversation in her presence. She turned out to be so delightfully down-to-earth. I also realized how differently the kitty and the lace are treated in the book versus the film.
I just re-read the comments here and enjoyed them afresh. Thanks!
(There seems to be no recording of Tenant of Wildfell Hall in our library system -- I thought I would look since I will want something once I finish Cranford.)
Re: Chapter 7 "Visiting" and Chapter 8 "Your Ladyship"
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05-06-2011 11:22 AM
My family is in no way of the aristocracy but my grandmother would roll over in her grave if I told a complete stranger about how the lace I was wearing had been eaten and vomited back up by the cat!![]()
Peppermill wrote:
It particularly amused me this morning to note that the story of the cat and the lace was told to the visiting Scottish lady after all the concern about proper topics of conversation in her presence. She turned out to be so delightfully down-to-earth. I also realized how differently the kitty and the lace are treated in the book versus the film.
I read and knit and dance. Compulsively feel yarn. Consume books. Darn tights. Drink too much caffiene. All that good stuff.
balletbookworm.blogspot.com