Chapter 4: "the blessing of a wife"

[pmath]

"... I consider the blessing of a wife as most justly described in those discreet lines of the poet--'Heaven's last best gift.'"

It will be interesting for those of us also currently reading John Milton's Paradise Lost to see if JA is alluding to something else in Book 5, or the work as a whole: will Mr Crawford play the rôle of some character in PL?

[LizzieAnn]

With Chapter 5, the Bertrams & the Crawfords meet:

The young people were pleased with each other from the first. On each side there was much to attract, and their acquaintance soon promised as early an intimacy as good manners would warrant. Miss Crawford’s beauty did her no disservice with the Miss Bertrams. They were too handsome themselves to dislike any woman for being so too, and were almost as much charmed as their brothers with her lively dark eye, clear brown complexion, and general prettiness. Had she been tall, full formed, and fair, it might have been more of a trial: but as it was, there could be no comparison; and she was most allowably a sweet, pretty girl, while they were the finest young women in the country.

It seems that Mary's different & complimentary looks endeared her easily to Maria & Julia.

Her brother was not handsome: no, when they first saw him he was absolutely plain, black and plain; but still he was the gentleman, with a pleasing address. The second meeting proved him not so very plain: he was plain, to be sure, but then he had so much countenance, and his teeth were so good, and he was so well made, that one soon forgot he was plain; and after a third interview, after dining in company with him at the Parsonage, he was no longer allowed to be called so by anybody. He was, in fact, the most agreeable young man the sisters had ever known, and they were equally delighted with him.

Is it Henry's charm & manner that attract the sisters? Could it be the lack of any competition? Or is it in comparison to Mr. Rushworth that Henry went from being plain to not?

[pmath]

Liz, Mr Crawford's teeth clinched it, pun intended!

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LizzieAnn wrote:

...he had so much countenance, and his teeth were so good, and he was so well made, that one soon forgot he was plain; and after a third interview, after dining in company with him at the Parsonage, he was no longer allowed to be called so by anybody.

Is it Henry's charm & manner that attract the sisters? Could it be the lack of any competition? Or is it in comparison to Mr. Rushworth that Henry went from being plain to not?

[LizzieAnn]

In chapter 5 we startto see Henry's & Mary's characters emerge. As Maria is an engaged woman, Henry's attentions are expected by Julia. However. . .

Maria . . . did not want to see or understand. 'There could be no harm in her liking an agreeable man - everybody knew her situation - Mr. Crawford must take care of himself.' Mr. Crawford did not mean to be in any danger: the Miss Bertrams were worth pleasing, and were ready to be pleased; and he began with no object but of making them like him. He did not want them to die of love; but with sense and temper which ought to have made him judge and feel better, he allowed himself great latitude on such points.

Mary tries to steer her brother toward Julia, reminding him that Maria is engaged. Harry's reply:

An engaged woman is always more agreeable than a disengaged. . . All is safe with a lady engaged; no harm can be done.

Mary also seems to have determinedly "set her sights":

She acknowledged, however, that the Mr. Bertrams were very fine young men, that two such young men were not often seen together even in London, and that their manners, particularly those of the eldest, were very good. He had been much in London, and had more liveliness and gallantry than Edmund, and must, therefore, be preferred; and, indeed, his being the eldest was another strong claim. She had felt an early presentiment that she should like the eldest best. She knew it was her way.

Tom Bertram must have been thought pleasant, . . . Miss Crawford soon felt that he and his situation might do. She looked about her with due consideration, and found almost everything in his favour: a park, a real park, five miles round, a spacious modern–built house, so well placed and well screened as to deserve to be in any collection of engravings of gentlemen’s seats in the kingdom, and wanting only to be completely new furnished—pleasant sisters, a quiet mother, and an agreeable man himself—with the advantage of being tied up from much gaming at present by a promise to his father, and of being Sir Thomas hereafter. It might do very well; she believed she should accept him; . . .

The Crawford siblings seem very determined.

[LizzieAnn]

LOL! I wonder if the Bertram sisters were just bored & Henry provided a new & welcome diversion?

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pmath wrote:
Liz, Mr Crawford's teeth clinched it, pun intended!

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LizzieAnn wrote:

...he had so much countenance, and his teeth were so good, and he was so well made, that one soon forgot he was plain; and after a third interview, after dining in company with him at the Parsonage, he was no longer allowed to be called so by anybody.

Is it Henry's charm & manner that attract the sisters? Could it be the lack of any competition? Or is it in comparison to Mr. Rushworth that Henry went from being plain to not?

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[pmath]

"... My cousin is grown up. She has the age and sense of a woman, but the outs and not outs are beyond me."

Edmund's comment is interesting: what is JA trying to tell us here, about both Fanny and Edmund?

Message Edited by pmath on 04-04-200706:50 PM

[LizzieAnn]

It's obvious that if the situation were different, Fanny is of an age and sense to have made her debut & been considered "out." Edwmud's lack of knowledge of the intricacies of society is also interesting. He clearly is as much involved in society as his Tom, nor does he seem to have plans to do so. It may also been an indication that as a future clergyman, such secular doings do not concern him.

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pmath wrote:

"... My cousin is grown up. She has the age and sense of a woman, but the outs and not outs are beyond me."

Edmund's comment is interesting: what is JA trying to tell us here, about both Fanny and Edmund?

Message Edited by pmath on 04-04-200706:50 PM

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[pmath]

"...I consider that it is, of all transactions, the one in which people expect most from others, and are least honest themselves."

Paul, doesn't Mary's comment make you think of Mr Bennet in P&P?

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PaulK wrote:
I do have a question. I did not quite understand what was happening early in the chapter with the discussion of being "taken in" in marriage. Can someone give me their understanding.

[LizzieAnn]

Milton uses that quotation for Eve in Book V of PL. Henry as Adam? Or is he implying that marriage is the last thing he would contemplate?

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pmath wrote:

"... I consider the blessing of a wife as most justly described in those discreet lines of the poet--'Heaven's last best gift.'"

It will be interesting for those of us also currently reading John Milton's Paradise Lost to see if JA is alluding to something else in Book 5, or the work as a whole: will Mr Crawford play the rôle of some character in PL?

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[jd]

Perhaps the only good wife is a dead wife - jd or perhaps the only happy wife is a dead wife, -jd

[LizzieAnn]

We learn that Mr. Rushworth is planning to remodel the grounds of Sotherton - to the extent of cutting down an avenue of trees, to which Fanny remarks to Edmund:

"Cut down an avenue! What a pity! Does it not make you think of Cowper? ‘Ye fallen avenues, once more I mourn your fate unmerited.’"

He smiled as he answered, "I am afraid the avenue stands a bad chance, Fanny."

"I should like to see Sotherton before it is cut down, to see the place as it is now, in its old state; but I do not suppose I shall."

Further discussion among the young people results in plans for everyone to visit Sotherton. However, it doesn't appear that Fanny will be able to see Sotherton as Mrs. Norris decides that Fanny must stay home with her aunt, Lady Bertram, and that she, Mrs. Norris, will go.

[LizzieAnn]

I came across this interesting commentary/essay on Henry & Mary Crawford that you might interesting.

[Choisya]

There was a fashion throughout the Georgian period to return gardens to their 'natural' landscape, away from the parterres and formal gardens of the French style which were popular in the former century. 'Capability Brown' set this fashion and in the time that MP was written his style was being followed by Humphrey Repton, although his style was less formal and included more flowers, exotic new plants were being brought in from China and Asia at this period (many by intrepid women botanists pmath*!):-

http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/Page4947.asp

Castle Ashby is the most famous one in Northamptonshire:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Ashby

Here is a little history of how landscape gardening developed in England during the Georgian period:-

http://www.georgianindex.net/garden/Gardens.html

I did a Royal Horticultural Society course on this style of gardening and visited all the Brown and Repton gardens in the UK in one year!) Stowe was my favourite. Those of you who saw the first Harry Potter may remember the gardens of Hogwart's Academy - Alnwick Castle - which were landscaped by Capability Brown. The thing was not to make them look like gardens at all, but to create an entirely natural landscape as far as the eye could see. As many of these 'stately homes' were surrounded by miles of land (Alnwick is bounded by an 11 mile long wall on approximately four sides!) this was entirely possible.

*See 'Cultivating Women, Cultivating Science' by Ann B Shteir.

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LizzieAnn wrote:
We learn that Mr. Rushworth is planning to remodel the grounds of Sotherton - to the extent of cutting down an avenue of trees, to which Fanny remarks to Edmund:

"Cut down an avenue! What a pity! Does it not make you think of Cowper? ‘Ye fallen avenues, once more I mourn your fate unmerited.’"

He smiled as he answered, "I am afraid the avenue stands a bad chance, Fanny."

"I should like to see Sotherton before it is cut down, to see the place as it is now, in its old state; but I do not suppose I shall."

Further discussion among the young people results in plans for everyone to visit Sotherton. However, it doesn't appear that Fanny will be able to see Sotherton as Mrs. Norris decides that Fanny must stay home with her aunt, Lady Bertram, and that she, Mrs. Norris, will go.

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Message Edited by Choisya on 04-05-200705:10 PM

[Bill_T]

Paul, since no one else has addressed this directly, I thought I'd take a shot. There's something of a play on words going on here. Mary says of Henry

"“We must leave him to himself, I believe. Talking does no good. He will be taken in at last.”

In other words, in the hunt for a husband, he'll eventually be captured or taken in. But of course, Mrs. Grant picks up the other sense of the phrase (which Mary seems to have intended) -- that there will be an element of deception in it. She says:

“But I would not have him taken in; I would not have him duped; I would have it all fair and honourable.”

Cynical Mary goes on to point out that marriage is the ultimate con game:

"...[T]here is not one in a hundred of either sex who is not taken in when they marry. Look where I will, I see that it is so; and I feel that it must be so, when I consider that it is, of all transactions, the one in which people expect most from others, and are least honest themselves.”

(That's my sense of it -- having a look at the OED, to look into the use of "taken" and "taken in" around that time, would help, but it'll have to wait until I get home.)


To be honest, I think this is an example of what you observed about how Austen uses the discussion of being "out" -- it's evidence of the shallowness of the people talking. Mary is being a bit witty, but it's a kind of a hollow wit. She doesn't really have experience to back it up, but speaking this way allows her a veneer of sophistication. (Or maybe I just don't find it that sparkling, so I presume Austen meant us to see it that way!)

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PaulK wrote:
Ch. 5
I think the long passages of being "out" are classic JA. She can take a dry topic and use it to show just how shallow these characters are. I wondered if she laughed as she wrote these passages.

I do have a question. I did not quite understand what was happening early in the chapter with the discussion of being "taken in" in marriage. Can someone give me their understanding.

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[LizzieAnn]

Here is a commentary on the mention of Cowper within Mansfield Park entitled "Does it not make you think of Cowper?"

[LizzieAnn]

"Three years ago the Admiral, my honoured uncle, bought a cottage at Twickenham for us all to spend our summers in; and my aunt and I went down to it quite in raptures; but it being excessively pretty, it was soon found necessary to be improved, and for three months we were all dirt and confusion, without a gravel walk to step on, or a bench fit for use. I would have everything as complete as possible in the country, shrubberies and flower–gardens, and rustic seats innumerable: but it must all be done without my care. Henry is different; he loves to be doing."

Edmund was sorry to hear Miss Crawford, whom he was much disposed to admire, speak so freely of her uncle. It did not suit his sense of propriety, and he was silenced, till induced by further smiles and liveliness to put the matter by for the present.

We're starting to see things stir a bit. Edmund is becoming attracted to Mary Crawford, even though she does not fit his idea of female propriety. Yet, her liveliness of manner seems to captivate Edmund, much as Lizzie's manner did Darcy.

[pmath]

"The house was built in Elizabeth's time, and is a large, regular, brick building; heavy, but respectable looking, and has many good rooms. ..."

Choisya, can you give us an example that fits Edmund's description of Sotherton Court?

[pmath]

The season, the scene, the air, were all favourable to tenderness and sentiment. Mrs. Grant and her tambour frame were not without their use: it was all in harmony; and as everything will turn to account when love is once set going, even the sandwich tray, and Dr. Grant doing the honours of it, were worth looking at.

The Doctor is at it again!

[LizzieAnn]

Mr. Bertram," said she, "I have tidings of my harp at last. I am assured that it is safe at Northampton . . . our inquiries were too direct; we sent a servant, we went ourselves: this will not do seventy miles from London; but this morning we heard of it in the right way. It was seen by some farmer, and he told the miller, and the miller told the butcher, and the butcher’s son–in–law left word at the shop." . . .

"I am to have it to–morrow; but how do you think it is to be conveyed? Not by a wagon or cart: oh no! nothing of that kind could be hired in the village. I might as well have asked for porters and a handbarrow."

"You would find it difficult, I dare say, just now, in the middle of a very late hay harvest, to hire a horse and cart?"

"I was astonished to find what a piece of work was made of it! . . . Guess my surprise, when I found that I had been asking the most unreasonable, most impossible thing in the world; had offended all the farmers, all the labourers, all the hay in the parish!"

"You could not be expected to have thought on the subject before; but when you do think of it, you must see the importance of getting in the grass. The hire of a cart at any time might not be so easy as you suppose: our farmers are not in the habit of letting them out; but, in harvest, it must be quite out of their power to spare a horse.”

"I shall understand all your ways in time; but, coming down with the true London maxim, that everything is to be got with money, I was a little embarrassed at first by the sturdy independence of your country customs."

There is quite a bit of arrogance in Mary's tone & manner within this discussion, that Edmund seems to overlook. It illustrates aspects of Mary - city-bred looking down on the country as well as the idea that anything (or anyone) can be bought - that everything & everyone has a price.

Edmund spoke of the harp as his favourite instrument, and hoped to be soon allowed to hear her. Fanny had never heard the harp at all, and wished for it very much.

"I shall be most happy to play to you both," said Miss Crawford . . . Now, Mr. Bertram, if you write to your brother, I entreat you to tell him that my harp is come: he heard so much of my misery about it. And you may say, if you please, that I shall prepare my most plaintive airs against his return, in compassion to his feelings, as I know his horse will lose."

It's obvious that Mary has not quite given up on attracting Tom's attentions and envisions the romantic notion of playing the harp for him. Yet, she solicits his attentions through Edmund.

[LizzieAnn]

LOL. JA does seem to give her clergy some quirky characteristics. At least, Dr. Grant's eating prohibits his talking constantly!

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pmath wrote:

The season, the scene, the air, were all favourable to tenderness and sentiment. Mrs. Grant and her tambour frame were not without their use: it was all in harmony; and as everything will turn to account when love is once set going, even the sandwich tray, and Dr. Grant doing the honours of it, were worth looking at.

The Doctor is at it again!

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