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Melissa_W
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MIDDLEMARCH: Notable Quotations

[ Edited ]
Find a good line? List it here.

Message Edited by pedsphleb on 11-25-2007 01:33 AM
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Re: MIDDLEMARCH: Notable Quotations

[ Edited ]
Do you mean quotations from Middlemarch Melissa or from her work in general? Here is one I like, which is an example of her views on the relationship between faith and morality:-

‘And in opposition to your theory that a belief in immortality is the only source of virtue, I maintain that, so far as moral action is dependent on that belief, so far the emotion which prompts it is not truly moral—is still in the stage of egoism, and has not yet attained the higher development of sympathy. In proportion as a man would care less for the rights and the welfare of his fellow, if he did not believe in a future life, in that proportion is he wanting in the genuine feelings of justice and benevolence...’
Worldiness and Other-Worldiness: The Poet Young.






pedsphleb wrote:
Find a good line? List it here.

Message Edited by pedsphleb on 11-25-2007 01:33 AM



Message Edited by Choisya on 11-25-2007 09:09 AM
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Re: MIDDLEMARCH: Notable Quotations

Generally from Middlemarch, but that is a good one, too :smileyhappy:



Choisya wrote:
Do you mean quotations from Middlemarch Melissa or from her work in general? Here is one I like, which is an example of her views on the relationship between faith and morality:-

‘And in opposition to your theory that a belief in immortality is the only source of virtue, I maintain that, so far as moral action is dependent on that belief, so far the emotion which prompts it is not truly moral—is still in the stage of egoism, and has not yet attained the higher development of sympathy. In proportion as a man would care less for the rights and the welfare of his fellow, if he did not believe in a future life, in that proportion is he wanting in the genuine feelings of justice and benevolence...’
Worldiness and Other-Worldiness: The Poet Young.






pedsphleb wrote:
Find a good line? List it here.

Message Edited by pedsphleb on 11-25-2007 01:33 AM



Message Edited by Choisya on 11-25-2007 09:09 AM


Melissa W.
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Re: MIDDLEMARCH: Notable Quotations

After she became an atheist, following her evangelical upbringing, George Eliot made a lot of rather harsh statements about evangelism, Christianity and God. There are a few of them on this website under E for Eliot:-

http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/qframe.htm

She reminds me sometimes of a smoker who has given up cigarettes - they are always the ones to give very dire warnings about the evils of cigarette smoking!

I hope these statements do not put good Christians here off Eliot or Middlemarch - though she may not have been religious, or a 'believer', she had a strong sense of the moral and of things outside of ourselves which some would call spiritual, and many of her views about this are exemplified in the character of Dorothea who perhaps is a portrait of her thinking, younger self.

On the other hand, a lot of what George Eliot believed are beliefs of mine and that might put you off altogether:smileysurprised::smileyvery-happy:
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Re: MIDDLEMARCH: Notable Quotations



Choisya wrote:
After she became an atheist ...

It is never possible to know really what is in somebody's mind, but my reading of Mary Ann(e) Evans Cross's life indicates that she did not consider herself an atheist. She certainly did turn away from the organized Christianity of her adolescence. But she also maintained some spiritual beliefs to the end of her life. If one feels compelled to try to sum up her religious beliefs in a single word or term, which in my opinion is both unnecessary and perhaps impossible, it might be best to describe her as a spiritual agnostic.

I'm sure there are those in the atheist community, present company excepted of course, who want to claim her for their own without any appreciation of the nuances of her belief. But we should be careful about accepting at face value what atheist-oriented websites may claim about her, or how they may cherry-pick parts of her writing to try to present her as other than she was. It is, of course, a standard technique of many minority groups, particularly less popular ones, to try to lay claim to celebrities why may or may not share their beliefs in order to bolster their credibility or respectability. So some care here is in order.

Since I didn't know her personally, I don't know for a fact what her final beliefs about religion and spirituality were any more than anybody else here does. We do know that she wished to be buried in Westminster Abbey, highly consecrated ground, which would seem a strange request if she really were a committed atheist. And we know that late in life, after the death of her long-time lover Lewes, she married her financial advisor, John Cross -- and that they chose to be married in an Anglican church, which again would seem a very strange choice if she were truly a committed atheist. And being denied burial in Westminster, she was at her request buried (by Lewes) in Highgate Cometary, again consecrated ground, which would probably not have been permitted if she had been considered by the church a confirmed apostate and atheist.

Basically, we should be careful not to do violence to her beliefs by too casually pigeonholing her. She was a complex woman, and deserves to be given the respect of such.

It may well be fruitful, as we read Middlemarch, to contemplate the treatment she gives to the religious beliefs of her characters and what that may (or may not) say about her own beliefs.
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Re: MIDDLEMARCH: Notable Quotations

"In the words of George Eliot's Middlemarch, which Clark was reading while he was writing his novel, 'we get our thoughts entangled in metaphors.'"

http://www.thecrimson.harvard.edu/article.aspx?ref=115769
From a Harvard Crimson review of In the Deep Midwinter by Robert Clark (1997 -- set in St. Paul, MN).
"Seize the moments of happiness, love and be loved! That is the only reality in the world, all else is folly. It is the one thing we are interested in here." -- Leo Tolstoy
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Re: MIDDLEMARCH: Notable Quotations

Beautiful! OT--Do you know from what wonderful work(s) Clark got his title?

Peppermill wrote:
"In the words of George Eliot's Middlemarch, which Clark was reading while he was writing his novel, 'we get our thoughts entangled in metaphors.'"

http://www.thecrimson.harvard.edu/article.aspx?ref=115769
From a Harvard Crimson review of In the Deep Midwinter by Robert Clark (1997 -- set in St. Paul, MN).


"Truth must of necessity be stranger than fiction, for fiction is the creation of the human mind, and therefore is congenial to it." ~~G.K. Chesterton
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Re: MIDDLEMARCH: Notable Quotations

LOL. We do, we do, well I do, I do:smileyhappy:.



Peppermill wrote:
"In the words of George Eliot's Middlemarch, which Clark was reading while he was writing his novel, 'we get our thoughts entangled in metaphors.'"

http://www.thecrimson.harvard.edu/article.aspx?ref=115769
From a Harvard Crimson review of In the Deep Midwinter by Robert Clark (1997 -- set in St. Paul, MN).


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Re: MIDDLEMARCH: Notable Quotations : Modern times

[ Edited ]
I think those of us here will agree with some of these sentiments by Eliot, quoted in the Introduction to English Society in the 18th Century by Roy Porter:-

'This side of the watershed of the French Revolution or the First Reform Bill lie modern times: our world of the masses, democracy, progress, opportunity, alienation - or whatever; on the far side, there is the world we have lost, utterly lost, best evoked by George Eliot in Adam Bede over a century ago, recalling even then the irrecoverable times of the early 1800s:- [A long quote but worth reading I think.]

"Leisure is gone, gone where the spinning wheels are gone, and the pack-horses, and the slow waggons, and the pedlars who brought bargains to the door on sunny afternoons. Ingenious philosophers tell you, perhaps, that the great work of the steam engine is to create leisure for mankind. Do not believe them; it only creates a vacuum for eager thoughts to rush in. Even idleness is eager now, eager for amusement: prone to excursion trains, art museums, periodical literature, and exciting novels; prone even to scientific theorizing. and cursory peeps through microscopes. Old Leisure was quite a different personage; he only read one newspaper, innocent of leaders, and was free from that periodicity of sensations which we call post-time. He was a contemplative, rather stout gentleman, of excellent digestion - of quiet perception, undiseased by hypothesis, happy in his inability to know the causes of things, preferring the things themselves. He lived chiefly in the country, among pleasant seats and homesteads, and was fond of sauntering by the fruit tree wall, and scenting the apricots when they were warmed by the morning sunshine or of sheltering himself under the orchard boughs at noon, when the summer pears were falling. He knew nothing of weekday services, and thought none the worse of the Sunday sermon if it allowed him to sleep from the text to the blessing - liking the afternoon service the best because the prayers were the shortest, and not ashamed to say so; for he had an easy, jolly conscience, broadbacked like himself, and able to carry a great deal of beer and port wine - not being made squeamish by doubts and qualms and lofty aspiration. Life was not a task to him, but a sinecure, he fingered the guineas in his pocket, and ate his dinners, and slept the sleep of the irresponsible, for he had not kept the charter by going to church on the Sunday afternoons! Fine Old Leisure! Do not be severe on him, and judge him by our modern standards; he never went to Exeter Hall, or heard a popular preacher, or read Tracts for the Times, or Sartor Resartus.

Message Edited by Choisya on 11-27-2007 02:08 PM
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Re: MIDDLEMARCH: Notable Quotations

[ Edited ]
Teases! Both of you! I didn't know. And there is probably a still more ancient (or recent) one I haven't tracked yet???

"In the deep midwinter, Frosty winds made moan. Earth was hard as iron, Water like a stone." Christina Rosetti.


Laurel wrote:
Beautiful! OT--Do you know from what wonderful work(s) Clark got his title?

Choisya wrote:
LOL. We do, we do, well I do, I do:smileyhappy:.

Peppermill wrote:
"In the words of George Eliot's Middlemarch, which Clark was reading while he was writing his novel, 'we get our thoughts entangled in metaphors.'"

http://www.thecrimson.harvard.edu/article.aspx?ref=115769
From a Harvard Crimson review of In the Deep Midwinter by Robert Clark (1997 -- set in St. Paul, MN).



Message Edited by Peppermill on 11-27-2007 04:24 PM
"Seize the moments of happiness, love and be loved! That is the only reality in the world, all else is folly. It is the one thing we are interested in here." -- Leo Tolstoy
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Re: MIDDLEMARCH: Notable Quotations

Allelujah! Christmas poem by Christina Rossetti, turned into a Christmas carol by Gustav Holt.

http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/i/n/intbleak.htm

Have you done your shopping yet? (rhetorical question)

Peppermill wrote:
Teases! Both of you! I didn't know. And there is probably a still more ancient (or recent) one I haven't tracked yet???

"In the deep midwinter, Frosty winds made moan. Earth was hard as iron, Water like a stone." Christina Rosetti.


Laurel wrote:
Beautiful! OT--Do you know from what wonderful work(s) Clark got his title?

Choisya wrote:
LOL. We do, we do, well I do, I do:smileyhappy:.

Peppermill wrote:
"In the words of George Eliot's Middlemarch, which Clark was reading while he was writing his novel, 'we get our thoughts entangled in metaphors.'"

http://www.thecrimson.harvard.edu/article.aspx?ref=115769
From a Harvard Crimson review of In the Deep Midwinter by Robert Clark (1997 -- set in St. Paul, MN).



Message Edited by Peppermill on 11-27-2007 04:24 PM


"Truth must of necessity be stranger than fiction, for fiction is the creation of the human mind, and therefore is congenial to it." ~~G.K. Chesterton
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Re: MIDDLEMARCH: Notable Quotations

I'm not sure where he got "in the deep midwinter" from, but it may well have been from a Christmas carol that was a favorite of my family, based on a poem by Christina Rossetti, "In the Bleak Midwinter." When I was growing up we gave a community carol party every Christmas in which along with the standards we sang many of the lesser known but beautiful carols, of which this was one. (Over the years we accumulated about twenty copies of the Oxford Book of Carols, the 1928 edition, along with mimeographed (this was in the 50s!) sheets of words which we had available -- we usually got about 70 to 80 people out for the party, all our living room could hold. (We borrowed chairs from the local funeral home, but that's another story!)

I have copied in the words below: you can find the tune in the Oxford Carols, #187 in my edition.

One of the "quirks" my mother had was that we sang all the verses of all the carols. Nowadays in our McDonald's carol world of haste and no time for good things people only sing one or two verses of most of them, but most good carols tell a story, and that's like telling only the first thirty and last ten lines of The Night before Christmas and calling it good. There is some wonderful content deep in some of these carols. I particularly love the middle verses of It Came Upon the Midnight Clear. Go read the whole carol sometime -- it's beautiful.

Anyhow:

1. In the bleak mid-winter
Frosty wind made moan,
Earth stood hard as iron,
Water like a stone;
Snow had fallen, snow on snow,
Snow on snow,
In the bleak mid-winter
Long ago.

2. Our God, Heaven cannot hold Him
Nor earth sustain;
Heaven and earth shall flee away
When He comes to reign:
In the bleak mid-winter
A stable-place sufficed
The Lord God Almighty,
Jesus Christ.

3. Enough for Him, whom cherubim
Worship night and day,
A breastful of milk
And a mangerful of hay;
Enough for Him, whom angels
Fall down before,
The ox and ass and camel
Which adore.

4. Angels and archangels
May have gathered there,
Cherubim and seraphim
Thronged the air,
But only His mother1
In her maiden bliss,
Worshipped the Beloved
With a kiss.

5. What can I give Him,
Poor as I am?
If I were a shepherd
I would bring a lamb,
If I were a wise man
I would do my part,
Yet what I can I give Him,
Give my heart.


Laurel wrote:
Beautiful! OT--Do you know from what wonderful work(s) Clark got his title?

Peppermill wrote:
"In the words of George Eliot's Middlemarch, which Clark was reading while he was writing his novel, 'we get our thoughts entangled in metaphors.'"

http://www.thecrimson.harvard.edu/article.aspx?ref=115769
From a Harvard Crimson review of In the Deep Midwinter by Robert Clark (1997 -- set in St. Paul, MN).





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Re: MIDDLEMARCH: Notable Quotations

Yes, but if he did get it from there he substituted deep for bleak.

And I wonder whether the book has any other relationship to the poem/hymn than the title?
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Re: MIDDLEMARCH: Notable Quotations

[ Edited ]

Everyman wrote:
Yes, but if he did get it from there he substituted deep for bleak.

And I wonder whether the book has any other relationship to the poem/hymn than the title?
I have no idea. I only dragged the author and name along because it's setting is supposedly Minnesota, and I keep my eye out for books with that backdrop. Rossetti's poem has been quoted with "deep" replacing "bleak," but "bleak" does seem to be the original. (And her name was misspelled also with that quotation!)

Message Edited by Peppermill on 11-30-2007 04:35 PM
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Re: MIDDLEMARCH: Notable Quotations

[ Edited ]
Here is an analysis of Rossetti's poem P:-

http://mghhistor.blogspot.com/2006/12/eminent-christians-14-christina.html




Peppermill wrote:
Teases! Both of you! I didn't know. And there is probably a still more ancient (or recent) one I haven't tracked yet???

"In the deep midwinter, Frosty winds made moan. Earth was hard as iron, Water like a stone." Christina Rosetti.


Laurel wrote:
Beautiful! OT--Do you know from what wonderful work(s) Clark got his title?

Choisya wrote:
LOL. We do, we do, well I do, I do:smileyhappy:.

Peppermill wrote:
"In the words of George Eliot's Middlemarch, which Clark was reading while he was writing his novel, 'we get our thoughts entangled in metaphors.'"

http://www.thecrimson.harvard.edu/article.aspx?ref=115769
From a Harvard Crimson review of In the Deep Midwinter by Robert Clark (1997 -- set in St. Paul, MN).



Message Edited by Peppermill on 11-27-2007 04:24 PM



Message Edited by Choisya on 12-01-2007 06:25 PM
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Re: MIDDLEMARCH: Notable Quotations

AH Christina Rosetti!! Now that girl could WRITE!



Peppermill wrote:
Teases! Both of you! I didn't know. And there is probably a still more ancient (or recent) one I haven't tracked yet???

"In the deep midwinter, Frosty winds made moan. Earth was hard as iron, Water like a stone." Christina Rosetti.


Laurel wrote:
Beautiful! OT--Do you know from what wonderful work(s) Clark got his title?

Choisya wrote:
LOL. We do, we do, well I do, I do:smileyhappy:.

Peppermill wrote:
"In the words of George Eliot's Middlemarch, which Clark was reading while he was writing his novel, 'we get our thoughts entangled in metaphors.'"

http://www.thecrimson.harvard.edu/article.aspx?ref=115769
From a Harvard Crimson review of In the Deep Midwinter by Robert Clark (1997 -- set in St. Paul, MN).



Message Edited by Peppermill on 11-27-2007 04:24 PM


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Re: MIDDLEMARCH: Notable Quotations

She's one of my favorites, that's for sure.

AJ981979 wrote:
AH Christina Rosetti!! Now that girl could WRITE!



Peppermill wrote:
Teases! Both of you! I didn't know. And there is probably a still more ancient (or recent) one I haven't tracked yet???

"In the deep midwinter, Frosty winds made moan. Earth was hard as iron, Water like a stone." Christina Rosetti.


Laurel wrote:
Beautiful! OT--Do you know from what wonderful work(s) Clark got his title?

Choisya wrote:
LOL. We do, we do, well I do, I do:smileyhappy:.

Peppermill wrote:
"In the words of George Eliot's Middlemarch, which Clark was reading while he was writing his novel, 'we get our thoughts entangled in metaphors.'"

http://www.thecrimson.harvard.edu/article.aspx?ref=115769
From a Harvard Crimson review of In the Deep Midwinter by Robert Clark (1997 -- set in St. Paul, MN).



Message Edited by Peppermill on 11-27-2007 04:24 PM





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Re: MIDDLEMARCH: Notable Quotations

Greetings:

Re notable quotations from the novel, I would offer the ending of Chapter 15. I particularly liked it for its appropriately parasitic closing line. Alas, poor Lydgate!

"No one in Middlemarch was likely to have such a notion of Lydgate's past as has here been faintly shadowed, and indeed the respectable townsfolk there were not more given than mortals generally to any eager attempt at exactness in the representation to themselves of what did not come under their own senses. Not only young virgins of that town, but grey-bearded men also, were often in haste to conjecture how a new acquaintance might be wrought into their purposes, contented with very vague knowledge as to the way in which life had been shaping him for that instumentality. Middlemarch, in fact, counted on swallowing Lydgate and assimilating him very comfortably."
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Re: MIDDLEMARCH: Notable Quotations -- Chapter 3 (POSSIBLE SPOILER)

"..wrong reasoning sometimes lands poor mortals in right conclusions: starting a long way off the true point, and proceeding by loops and zigzags, we now and then arrive just where we ought to be."

Probably stated with as much or greater clarity long before, still, well put here. I also enjoyed, but it is less general as stated:

"Because Miss Brooke was hasty in her trust, it is not therefore clear that Mr. Casaubon was unworthy of it."

As I re-look at these two chapters, I wonder if Eliot's opinions (as omniscient narrator) of her characters change as she writes; e.g., does she remain as sympathetic of Casaubon? (We see her having a great deal of empathy for Casaubon. E.g., Chapter 29. But after he executes his fateful will?) Do her feelings/attitudes toward Chettam get harsher (Chapter 6), then soften as he becomes the caring brother-in-law?
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Mary Garth, p 245

"But I will never engage myself to one who has no manly independence, and who goes on loitering away his time on the chance that others will provide for him." - p 245. (Mary to Caleb Garth)

Fred seems like the grasshopper to the rest of the Middlemarch ants.
Melissa W.
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