PURGE: Week 1, Part One

[Melissa_W Moderator]

Please use this thread for discussion of Part One of Purge.  Please clearly mark a SPOILER WARNING if your post contains information from later in the novel.

[Fozzie]

After reading Part One, but before going onto Part Two, I found it helpful to read the following sections of this Wikipedia article about Estonian history:

Declaration of Independence

Estonia in World War II

Soviet Invasion and Occupation

German Occupation

Soviet Estonia

Post-Independence

[Melissa_W Moderator]

What do you all think about the structure of the books so far - the short chapters, how they're all labelled with a year, place, and title?  Does this help you with the shifts in time and narrator?

[Fozzie]

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Melissa_W wrote:

What do you all think about the structure of the books so far - the short chapters, how they're all labelled with a year, place, and title?  Does this help you with the shifts in time and narrator?

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I love a book with short chapters --- I zip right through them and can easily pick up the book and put it down and pick it up again.  I relied heavily on the place and date information at the beginning of the chapters, not so much in this section, but more so as the book went on.  I also looked at the map many times.

I think the chapter titles are so clever!  They remind me of the chapter titles in The Book Thief.

The Book Thief 

[chadadanielleKR]

I agree 100%. The headings helps a lot. Especially, the information about the date and the location. The title might give too much information; but at the same time, reading it makes me want to know what it is all about..The titles could probably have been more enigmatic. The map is very very helpful.

[Peppermill]

I, too, like the short chapters. (In fact, I am getting exasperated with many writers who seem inconsiderate of their readers with long, long chapters, e.g., more than 20 pages in any book of reasonable complexity.) I sometimes don't pay a lot of attention to the titles before reading (despite Laura's reminder of good reading techniques when we were doing The Falls!), but they are helpful in the Purge when I get lost in either time or space.

This is another month in which I am probably trying to read too many things concurrently.  I must say I am finding it especially difficult to follow two stories that shift time periods constantly back and forth:  Purge and First Look's The Wake of Forgiveness.

I am also finding it difficult to consider how to post about Purge.  The story is so devastating, so frightening, and as yet so uncertain as to the final plot line and what is really happening -- one is almost afraid to give words to what one thinks one may know -- perhaps like the characters themselves.

Would it help to have a thread about the characters?  Or for passages of note?  It might be easier to comment on those than on the story line itself.

[Melissa_W Moderator]

I agree that the maps are very helpful

I find that the short chapters enhance the reticence Aliide and Zara are experiencing - they both seem to be conditioned to be suspicious and withhold information - as well as highlighting the fact that the reader is the only one getting both sides of the story at once.

(I have The Book Thief but have yet to actually sit down and read it - oops!)

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Fozzie wrote:

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Melissa_W wrote:

What do you all think about the structure of the books so far - the short chapters, how they're all labelled with a year, place, and title?  Does this help you with the shifts in time and narrator?

---

I love a book with short chapters --- I zip right through them and can easily pick up the book and put it down and pick it up again.  I relied heavily on the place and date information at the beginning of the chapters, not so much in this section, but more so as the book went on.  I also looked at the map many times.

I think the chapter titles are so clever!  They remind me of the chapter titles in The Book Thief.

The Book Thief 

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[Melissa_W Moderator]

I can put up a thread for characters.  No sweat.  I think that passages can be discussed in the threads for each part; if someone needs to talk about a spoiler they can mark it as such or post in the thread where the spoiler occurs

[Fozzie]

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Peppermill wrote:

I must say I am finding it especially difficult to follow two stories that shift time periods constantly back and forth:  Purge and First Look's The Wake of Forgiveness.

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Yes, the two books are very similar in structure, but have very different writing styles.  I finished Purge before starting Wake of Forgiveness, thank goodness, because it would be too much to keep straight!

[Fozzie]

I like to ponder the quotes at the beginning of each section, especially after reading the section, trying to discern their meaning as part of the book and why the author might have chosen them.  All were by Paul-Eerik Rummo, so I looked him up.  It turns out he is a poet, but "has also written dramatic texts, song lyrics, film scripts, books for children and literary criticism."  Now I wonder if these quotes are from his poems or song lyrics...

Anyway, the quote for Part One, "There is an answer for everything, if only one knew the question," fits the part well.  One thing I liked about the book in general is that it left me guessing and wondering about things all through it.  In Part One, and throughout the book, not only does the reader have unanswered questions, but the characters have unanswered questions about each other.  Wanting some answers propelled me through the book.

[Fozzie]

Another thing I really liked about this book was the attention to detail.  Throughout the book, little details are given, but not quite understood until later in the book.  I found that making note of the interesting details and marking them with a post it allowed me to appreciate the care the author put into revealing the story literally bit by bit.

One early example I noted occurred in the very first Free Estonia! section on page 3:

Liide's always trying to get closer to me.  Why won't she leave me alone?  She smells like onions.

I immediately realized the Liide was a variation of Aliide, so that part was clear.  I don't want to spoil anything, but know that why she won't leave Hans alone and why she smells like onions become very clear.

[Fozzie]

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Fozzie wrote:

Another thing I really liked about this book was the attention to detail.  Throughout the book, little details are given, but not quite understood until later in the book.  I found that making note of the interesting details and marking them with a post it allowed me to appreciate the care the author put into revealing the story literally bit by bit.

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For those of you who haven't finished the book, note the passage on page 98:

So how did Martin come to have Ingel's brooch?

This is another great example of what I am talking about, but can't say more here.

[Fozzie]

Zara looking at the photograph that her grandmother gave her, page 102:

And as Zara looked at the photo now she saw something that she hadn't understood before.  There was somethng very innocent in the girls' faces, and that innocence shone out at her from their round cheeks in a way that embarassed her.  Maybe she hadn't noticed it before because she herself had worn the same expression, the same innocence, but now that she had lost it, she could recognize it in their faces.

[chadadanielleKR]

Since I mentioned the FLY (in an other thread) which is the one of main character, of the opening chapter, I was wondering why p 42 Aliide put the bad sausage in Zara's sandwich. The passage is particularly disgusting. I was actually wondering why she didn't put the sausage in the fridge in the first place anyway. She might have forgotten though.

[Peppermill]

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chadadanielleKR wrote:

Since I mentioned the FLY (in an other thread) which is the one of main character, of the opening chapter, I was wondering why p 42 Aliide put the bad sausage in Zara's sandwich. The passage is particularly disgusting. I was actually wondering why she didn't put the sausage in the fridge in the first place anyway. She might have forgotten though.

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This may sound like a non sequitor, but I don't intend it as such: I find it hard at times to retain empathy for these characters. 

That is probably particularly noticeable to me because the same thing is happening for so many readers in the First Look group, including at times myself, relative to the characters in The Wake of Forgiveness. But, in very different circumstances.

It is raising questions for me about our basic relationships and responsibilies to each other simply because we are humans on the same planet -- what are those, and how (can) we instill those in each other, our governments, our institutions (including our families), and in the generations to follow us.

[Fozzie]

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chadadanielleKR wrote:

Since I mentioned the FLY (in an other thread) which is the one of main character, of the opening chapter, I was wondering why p 42 Aliide put the bad sausage in Zara's sandwich. The passage is particularly disgusting.

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It just seemed plain old mean to me!

But, it was in keeping with her character.  Read on...

[Peppermill]

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Fozzie wrote:

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chadadanielleKR wrote:

W

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It just seemed plain old mean to me!

But, it was in keeping with her character.  Read on...

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Allide hasn't come across as a very savory individual to me (pun not intended), but I don't like to think what it would be like to have had to endure what she has.  Who has written the stories of those who remained humane and survived when subjected to such inhumanity?  Wiesel and Weisenthal are largely non-fiction writers (I'm not sure about The Sunflower).  The fiction stories I have encountered are largely of those who helped others and were subject to danger, but escaped torture themselves.

[Goodword]

I've just started reading this book--even though I know the book club is over--as soon as I saw this book I knew I had to read it.  In 1992, I was living in Tallinn, Estonia.  I taught English to a class of elementary age Russian students.  So I'm reading the book with the idea of taking me back to that year in Eesti.

I'm only a few chapters in, but so many details bring back memories.  For instance, Zara's language.  Now, I realize there is a mystery there about her, but in 1992, the Estonians were independent of Russia, USSR, and were forcing Russians to leave.  Russians who chose and were allowed to stay had to speak Estonian.  There was so much friction between Russians and Estonians; it was evident everywhere.  I witnessed little, old ladies fussing at one another on public busses just because one was Russian.  While the Estonians spoke Russian (and often German, English, and one or two other languages), speaking Russian in the marketplace was frowned upon and could invite poor treatment.

Aliide gets the tub for Zara to bathe--even in Tallinn at that time, some of the flats did not have bath tubs.  Or hot water.  I visited homes in the country that did not have modern plumbing or running water, only indoor outhouses and wells--of course, that is not to suggest that it was this way everywhere.

I was also vaguely aware of the sex trafficing when I was there.  I was told that Finnish men who lived very respectable lives at home would take the ferry into Tallinn on the weekends and live alternate lives.  In fact, I was shocked to learn that one of my neighbors actually thought that I was Finnish and was telling stories about me--I was told that it was probably safer for me to think that than the truth, that I was an American.

[Melissa_W Moderator]

Welcome Goodword!  Although I'll need to unpin/unfloat the Purge threads since the group is starting Orlando please continue to comment as you read Purge.  The threads will still be here and I'd love to hear more about your experiences in Estonia

Why was it better for you if everyone thought you were Finnish as opposed to American, if you don't mind my asking?

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Goodword wrote:

I've just started reading this book--even though I know the book club is over--as soon as I saw this book I knew I had to read it.  In 1992, I was living in Tallinn, Estonia.  I taught English to a class of elementary age Russian students.  So I'm reading the book with the idea of taking me back to that year in Eesti.

I'm only a few chapters in, but so many details bring back memories.  For instance, Zara's language.  Now, I realize there is a mystery there about her, but in 1992, the Estonians were independent of Russia, USSR, and were forcing Russians to leave.  Russians who chose and were allowed to stay had to speak Estonian.  There was so much friction between Russians and Estonians; it was evident everywhere.  I witnessed little, old ladies fussing at one another on public busses just because one was Russian.  While the Estonians spoke Russian (and often German, English, and one or two other languages), speaking Russian in the marketplace was frowned upon and could invite poor treatment.

Aliide gets the tub for Zara to bathe--even in Tallinn at that time, some of the flats did not have bath tubs.  Or hot water.  I visited homes in the country that did not have modern plumbing or running water, only indoor outhouses and wells--of course, that is not to suggest that it was this way everywhere.

I was also vaguely aware of the sex trafficing when I was there.  I was told that Finnish men who lived very respectable lives at home would take the ferry into Tallinn on the weekends and live alternate lives.  In fact, I was shocked to learn that one of my neighbors actually thought that I was Finnish and was telling stories about me--I was told that it was probably safer for me to think that than the truth, that I was an American.

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[Goodword]

It was "safer" for people to think I was Finnish because Americans were perceived as being very wealthy, and their flats were burgularized.  I knew several Americans who were robbed in the year that I was there; my classroom was robbed twice.  What did the ''bandits" (my student's word) take?  Band aids, glue, paper, a wrapped Christmas gift.  Nothing special--to me.

Regarding the spoiled sausage--it was not uncommon for the Estonians to leave meat, mayo, and other foods unrefrigerated.  We Americans often joked about it being the secret to their cooking.  I think the heavy garlic and other spices would mask the spoiled flavor.  In the open air market where I shopped, it was common to see meat sitting out on a stump with a hatchet, ready to cut,  complete with flies and waiting dogs.  Seeing snow lying on the meat was better.  I also saw pigs' heads and half pig's heads for sale--never tried a pigs' ear!  Who knows what I ate there, and I never got sick.  I sincerely hope I didn't eat any sausage like Aliida served, that does seem pretty extreme, but I knew an Estonian woman who found a rat's tail in her meat pie.

I'm finding that I appreciate the chapter headings with the date and place--it definitely helps to keep track of the timeline, and I find the chapter "titles" helpful. 

Rummo's bits of poetry seem very symbolic--I've never read any Estonian authors that I can think of.  It will be interesting to read more.  Thanks for posting the link about Estonian lit!