SHIRLEY: Week 2, Chapters 11 - 20

[Melissa_W Moderator]

Please use this thread for discussion of Chapters 11 through 20 of Shirley.  Please clearly mark a **SPOILER WARNING** if your post contains information pertaining to plot points later int he novel.

[dulcinea3]

I haven't read this whole section yet - I'm just through chapter 12.  But I wanted to say that I was glad to finally meet Shirley in chapter 11!  I was wondering when she would show up, although I did suspect that she might be the owner of Fieldhead that was mentioned in an earlier chapter:

All this he [Moore] held at a somewhat high rent (for these war times were hard, and everything was dear) of the trustees of the Fieldhead estate, then the property of a minor.

(chapter 2)

So far she seems a good companion for Caroline, who desperately needed something new; hopefully her spirits and health will improve now.

The following is a speculation that I suddenly came up with, so not really a spoiler, but if I'm right, I suppose it might be considered one, so you are warned, just in case!

I was wondering why Shirley seemed so interested in Caroline as soon as she met her, as she was staring at her quite intensely.  I also wondered about Mrs. Pryor's instantly taking to her, since it appears that Mrs. Pryor is very reserved and normally shies away from people.  At first I thought it was just that Caroline is a very nice, quiet girl, who is in obvious need of some friendship, but I suddenly had an idea - what if Mrs. Pryor is Caroline's long-lost mother?  I imagine she would have confided in Shirley, and that would account for Shirley's intense interest in Caroline.  I think it very possible that Helstone would not recognise her; I can't remember if it said whether he had ever met her, and I doubt that he even paid much attention to Mrs. Pryor, since he doesn't care much for women (although he certainly is flirting very much with Shirley!).

[zaphiragirl]

Yes!! Reached chapter 11 and finally I've enjoyed a chapter in this novel!! Really I loved Shirley's character finally no contradictory personality, but in fact a direct and joyful personality I felt like it even lighted up the reading!

I'm really worried for Caroline since many many things are coming to my mind. Like I said before will she be  set aside by dazzling Shirley? I mean she has just what Moore looks for: money and is more than pretty enough to look at! Or on the other hand will Shirley's spirit be just what Caroline will need to fight for her love and freedom???

***As for Shirley I think that from what life has brought upon her only women in her circumstances where actually free at these years? I mean independent and wealthy women, with a more than a good head for business and the sagacity to stand up for what they want.****Unlike Caroline that would either be a governess or marry a wealthy suitor...

Helstone, that man really gets on my nerves he should be called Mr Hateswomen instead! And I noticed also his more than friendly attitude towards dashing Shirley...(again I loved her character!)

Rigth now, to me the reading has reached a point on which it is enjoyable enough to go through Bronte's cool and unromantic story line without wanting to cut your veins after putting the book down!

[zaphiragirl]

"...We think his voice gives the softest, truest promise of a heart that will never harden against us; we read in his eyes that faithful feeling--affection. I don't think we should trust to what they call passion at all, Caroline. I believe it is a mere fire of dry sticks, blazing up and vanishing. But we watch him, and see him kind to animals, to little children, to poor people. He is kind to us likewise, good, considerate. He does not flatter women, but he is patient with them, and he seems to be easy in their presence, and to find their company genial. He likes them not only for vain and selfish reasons, but as we like him--because we like him. Then we observe that he is just, that he always speaks the truth, that he is conscientious. We feel joy and peace when he comes into a room; we feel sadness and trouble when he leaves it. We know that this man has been a kind son, that he is a kind brother. Will any one dare to tell me that he will not be a kind husband?"

Now ladies...doesn't that looks like Caroline's beloved Mr. Moore to you and then the rest of that conversation!??? What I would kill to see now is Caroline's reaction to that conversation! So I'll go back to Shirley and later on see what you think of this!  

[Peppermill]

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zaphiragirl wrote:

Yes!! Reached chapter 11 and finally I've enjoyed a chapter in this novel!! Really I loved Shirley's character finally no contradictory personality, but in fact a direct and joyful personality I felt like it even lighted up the reading!

I'm really worried for Caroline since many many things are coming to my mind. Like I said before will she be  set aside by dazzling Shirley? I mean she has just what Moore looks for: money and is more than pretty enough to look at! Or on the other hand will Shirley's spirit be just what Caroline will need to fight for her love and freedom???

***As for Shirley I think that from what life has brought upon her only women in her circumstances where actually free at these years? I mean independent and wealthy women, with a more than a good head for business and the sagacity to stand up for what they want.****Unlike Caroline that would either be a governess or marry a wealthy suitor...

Helstone, that man really gets on my nerves he should be called Mr Hateswomen instead! And I noticed also his more than friendly attitude towards dashing Shirley...(again I loved her character!)

Rigth now, to me the reading has reached a point on which it is enjoyable enough to go through Bronte's cool and unromantic story line without wanting to cut your veins after putting the book down!

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LOL -- especially your very last comment, but also your suggestion for Helstone's name! 

(I suspect "Helstone" was as close as Bronte dared get; she may well have had the same idea as you!)

[zaphiragirl]

Oh My holy Lord!! I've laughed my lungs out!! Now that mention it....hel...stone ohh! jo! That's true wow for cool novel Bronte gave us a little humor!! yay! 

[Peppermill]

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zaphiragirl wrote:

Oh My holy Lord!! I've laughed my lungs out!! Now that mention it....hel...stone ohh! jo! That's true wow for cool novel Bronte gave us a little humor!! yay! 

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LOL!  Careful, though, you don't make dear Charlotte stir in her grave.  This minister's daughter would undoubtedly admonish us "Taketh not the name of thine Lord in vain"!  

[zaphiragirl]

ooh that's very true! I wouldn't want my sweet sleep time be disturbed by either Charlotte's reproach (please rest in peace!)  or the minister's daugther admonish! (I may not use my dear Lord's name in vain again!) 

well now i've given this story a bit of wuthering highs...! and I can't keep myself from laughing!

[Melissa_W Moderator]

Lol, Pepper!  Although Jane Austen is the author known for her cutting wit, I do think that Charlotte's experience with a drug-addicted brother and several unhappy stints as a teacher (as well as a no-nonsense Yorkshire upbringing) gave her good reason to apply a very shrewd eye to situations.

(I think Emily may be the one to watch out for when taking the Lord's name in vain, tho )

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Peppermill wrote:

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zaphiragirl wrote:

Oh My holy Lord!! I've laughed my lungs out!! Now that mention it....hel...stone ohh! jo! That's true wow for cool novel Bronte gave us a little humor!! yay! 

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LOL!  Careful, though, you don't make dear Charlotte stir in her grave.  This minister's daughter would undoubtedly admonish us "Taketh not the name of thine Lord in vain"!  

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[zaphiragirl]

***SPOILER WARNING***  If you haven't reached chapter 14 then this might be a SPOILER to you.

"he had known Caroline as a pretty little girl: she had sat on his knee many a time; he had bought her toys and given her books; he felt that her friendship for him was mixed with a sort of filial respect; he could not have brought himself to attempt to give another colour to her sentiments,"

There has been a new character introduced in that chapter, Mr. Hall, another curate, one I can finally put under that position without questioning! His personality do resembles the one of a clergyman, so much that Caroline and Shirley like him the most! I think that from what I've read in the description on Mr. Hall's relationship with Caroline that Bronte gave that may be there is the kind of bond or love a father has for a daughter and vice versa. I really enjoy this character's presence in the book and his personality is somewhat lovely.

[zaphiragirl]

The curates keep their unique controversial and contradictory personalities!!! I was about to hit my head against a wall until I reached the end of chapter 15. 

First Malone and Donne are "attacked" by Tartar ( I really love that dog) after the ridiculous attempts Malone has to woo either Shirley or Caroline after I survive laughing in this scene, comes Mr. Donne and he wants to woo Shirley too!? Now what the heck was that!? Isn't this man married already, what is a married and to put more weight a curate! doing wooing another woman? I wanted to strangle Donne. But then Shirley proved herself not to be just charming and pleasing but with character and limits as well. I just loved the ending of this chapter, even though he is a curate Mr. Donne deserved what he got.

"Up she rose: nobody could control her now, for she was exasperated; straight she walked to her garden-gates, wide she flung them open.

'Walk through,' she said austerely, 'and pretty quickly, and set foot on this pavement no more.'

Donne was astounded. He had thought all the time he was showing himself off to high advantage, as a lofty-souled person of the first 'ton'; he imagined he was producing a crushing impression. Had he not expressed disdain of everything in Yorkshire? What more conclusive proof could be given that he was better than anything there? And yet here was he about to be turned like a dog out of a Yorkshire garden! Where, under such circumstances, was the 'concatenation accordingly'?

'Rid me of you instantly - instantly!' reiterated Shirley, as he lingered.

'Madam - a clergyman! Turn out a clergyman?'

'Off! Were you an archbishop you have proved yourself no gentleman, and must go. Quick!'

She was quite resolved: there was no trifling with her: besides, Tartar was again rising; he perceived symptoms of a commotion: he manifested a disposition to join in; there was evidently nothing for it but to go, and Donne made his Exodus; the heiress sweeping him a deep curtsey as she closed the gates on him.

'How dare the pompous priest abuse his flock? How dare the lisping cockney revile Yorkshire?' was her sole observation on the circumstance, as she returned to the table. Ere long, the little party broke up: Miss Keeldar's ruffled and darkened brow, curled lip, and incensed eye, gave no invitation to further social enjoyment" 

Magnificient ending!

[zaphiragirl]

Now, Shirley and Caroline's friendship has developed really good. Shirley doesn't fully enjoys any other company like she does with Caroline's and Caroline seems to be able to open herself freely when she is around or with Shirley by her side. Something I expected and I'm quite happy it happened because its just what she needs right now. A true bond of trust, affection and sincere friendship is presented but dear Mr. Moore is always in the middle! On the other hand Shirley seems to be a little impertinent when referring to Moore, to me it seems like she kind of knows or suspects that between Caroline and Robert there is something more than just filial love. 

From what I read up till now (chap. 19), it doesn't looks like Shirley likes Mr. Moore, she finds him attractive, handsome, she admires him, yes, but it looks more like she feels intrigued by him than another thing, annoyed at most of his attitudes and quite resolved to find what's so mysterious about him. As for Moore, he is so cool to her that it looks like he isn't actually thinking of such a thing like marriage, but simple business...From what he says to Caroline in chap. 13 about how he thinks to be seeing her in places where she is not and visions of her in pretty garments, he is having quite a trouble letting go of his feelings.

This pleases me to some point, I fear the same thing Caroline fears that Shirley and Robert will marry, now if that happens I will probably need psychological treatment for the traumas I'll have once finished the novel.

[Melissa_W Moderator]

That scene made me also think of the proposal scene in Pride and Prejudice where Lizzy turns down the silly proposal from Mr. Collins.  Although I think Shirley has a little more "real-life" reaction than LIzzy's more tactful refusal; Shirley has more disgust in her tone, I think.

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zaphiragirl wrote:

The curates keep their unique controversial and contradictory personalities!!! I was about to hit my head against a wall until I reached the end of chapter 15. 

First Malone and Donne are "attacked" by Tartar ( I really love that dog) after the ridiculous attempts Malone has to woo either Shirley or Caroline after I survive laughing in this scene, comes Mr. Donne and he wants to woo Shirley too!? Now what the heck was that!? Isn't this man married already, what is a married and to put more weight a curate! doing wooing another woman? I wanted to strangle Donne. But then Shirley proved herself not to be just charming and pleasing but with character and limits as well. I just loved the ending of this chapter, even though he is a curate Mr. Donne deserved what he got.

"Up she rose: nobody could control her now, for she was exasperated; straight she walked to her garden-gates, wide she flung them open.

'Walk through,' she said austerely, 'and pretty quickly, and set foot on this pavement no more.'

Donne was astounded. He had thought all the time he was showing himself off to high advantage, as a lofty-souled person of the first 'ton'; he imagined he was producing a crushing impression. Had he not expressed disdain of everything in Yorkshire? What more conclusive proof could be given that he was better than anything there? And yet here was he about to be turned like a dog out of a Yorkshire garden! Where, under such circumstances, was the 'concatenation accordingly'?

'Rid me of you instantly - instantly!' reiterated Shirley, as he lingered.

'Madam - a clergyman! Turn out a clergyman?'

'Off! Were you an archbishop you have proved yourself no gentleman, and must go. Quick!'

She was quite resolved: there was no trifling with her: besides, Tartar was again rising; he perceived symptoms of a commotion: he manifested a disposition to join in; there was evidently nothing for it but to go, and Donne made his Exodus; the heiress sweeping him a deep curtsey as she closed the gates on him.

'How dare the pompous priest abuse his flock? How dare the lisping cockney revile Yorkshire?' was her sole observation on the circumstance, as she returned to the table. Ere long, the little party broke up: Miss Keeldar's ruffled and darkened brow, curled lip, and incensed eye, gave no invitation to further social enjoyment" 

Magnificient ending!

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[zaphiragirl]

I enjoyed most of the writing in the last nine chapters I read, not so many reader this and reader that like in the first ones, which was for me a relief, there was a little humor with Malone's and Mr. Donne wooing atempts and Shirley well she lights up almost every scene I guess Bronte giving this character such a vivid and joyous nature found herself obliged to warm a little the cool atmosphere she gives in the first chapters.

The contradictory personalities of the curates remained, at least Mr. Hall made the difference but in the end of chapter 16 Bronte gives us a litte remainder of the curates nature: human, imperfect personalities, that were indeed the reason of the many contradictory actions they did, imperfection. 

"It was a joyous scene, and a scene to do good: it was a day of happiness for rich and poor: the work, first of God, and then of the clergy. Let England's priests have their due: they are a faulty set in some respects, being only of common flesh and blood, like us all; but the land would be badly off without them: Britain would miss her church, if that church fell. God save it! God also reform it!" I am not looking  for a perfect curate, but in the end we are all made of flesh and bone, I quite liked the ending of this chapter.

Now, Bronte set me on fire with the tittle of Chapter 18 "WHICH THE GENTEEL READER IS RECOMMENDED TO SKIP, LOW PERSONS BEING HERE INTRODUCED" Now what are you doing to me Bronte? was my response, in the end though I would have enjoyed to skip the chapter I read it anyways and wanted to kill Joe Scott that scrany mind of "macho bravado". Though the conversation with Farren, was somewhat the same that has been presented before about the economical crisis in the town when Scott joined the party it went to a little about feminism from Shirley's and Caroline's part.

To my surprise Caroline speaks up and shares her ideals!!! I loved it since it lets the reader know that a little courage from Shirley has been contaging sweet quiet Caroline. It was really impressive and provoking how a man, even from a lower social class would still look down on women (even of higher social class) and believe them not capable of expressing themselves correctly about politics and economy matters. Provoking!

Thanks for reading my comments or at least those that came to your interest! Right now I am in chapter 19, since I know I will probably not be able to join this discussion again until probably next monday this is why I have presented my comments ahead of time. Please I wish to know what you all think of them if you find one where you would like to say something. And I will be catching up with the reading on monday or wenesday; since this weekend  I am going to be helping out to clean and finally open a 'Cafe' my mother has been working on to see if we can get up from the economical crisis we are living under right now.

Again, please someone tell me how do you give more than just one laurel? Is it a privilige you get after reaching a certain rank?

[dulcinea3]

Hi zaphiragirl!  Well, after a couple of days at home due to several feet of snow, I think I have a chance to post a little!  BTW, best of luck on your new cafe!  And, yes, when you reach a higher rank, then when you give laurels, there are more of them.  I can't remember what rank starts at two.  I see that Pepper is up to three, now!  Also, we don't have a choice as to how many laurels; it just gives the same amount each time we click.

I am enjoying your participation!  You are so enthusiastic!  We needed some 'fresh blood' around here to perk us old-timers up!  I'm so far behind in the discussion that I'm not going to try to quote your messages, but just give some reflections of my own as I read through them.

I've been really confused by Shirley's attitude towards Moore.  It does seem as she has some feeling for him, and she blushes, etc., when he is there or is mentioned.  But I am also convinced that she is aware of Caroline's feelings for him.  Sometimes I think she praises him in order to get Caroline to come out and admit to something, but Caroline just keeps on in her attitude that he isn't interested in her and she has no right to be interested in him.  But it does seem like Shirley's feelings for him keep growing.  However, if she were to 'set her cap' at him, I would be very disappointed in her and convinced that she is nothing like what I thought her to be.  I can't believe that she would deliberately hurt Caroline like that.  I think that at this point, there has been the scene where Caroline saw Moore and Shirley together, and watched them, thinking they were romantically involved, but left before she could overhear their conversation?  That conversation seemed to me to be all about business, so I think that might really be their only involvement.  It could be that Shirley does like him, but wants to keep it focused on business because she could not hurt Caroline.  As for him, it is very difficult to figure out his feelings.

I did think that the speech that you quoted sounded like Shirley was describing Moore, and if so, it does sound like she is infatuated with him.  The thing that confused me was what she was talking about when she said she had seen him kind to children, animals, and the poor.  How could she have seen that?  We haven't really seen that in him, and I don't think there have been any such scenes; I believe that he means well, but doesn't show it outwardly.

I agree about Mr. Hall; in my opinion, he is the only true Man of God among the plethora of clergymen we have in this small area of Yorkshire.  Is Sweeting his curate?  Sweeting is not particularly objectionable, although he is a bit silly.  We actually met Hall some chapters earlier, when he stopped by the Farrens' cottage and gave them some spiritual comfort (as well as a few shillings and a promise to try to get them a small loan so that William could start a new business).  It was clear that he is a good man.  Also, Caroline feels comfortable with him, which cannot be said of many people.

That was a good part when Shirley threw Donne out!  Is he married?  I hadn't remembered that.  He is certainly conceited if he thinks that looking down on Yorkshire and its people is the way to win favor with a Yorkshire girl, even of an upper-class!  And Shirley showed her true mettle, and that she is her own person and will not stand for others' foolishness!  She is very strong for a woman of that time.

Now, in Chapter 13, I really started to wonder about Moore's feelings, and if perhaps he isn't interested in Caroline, after all.  I think that when he comes to see Shirley and finds Caroline there, it is the first time they have met since the falling-out between him and her uncle.  I noticed that he was trying to look at her when they were sitting together, and then insisted on walking her at least part way home.  I thought that he was almost romantic during their conversation on the way, and then he kept saying that he wanted to stay with her a while.

"It appears you walk invisible. I noticed a ring on your hand this evening; can it be the ring of Gyges? Henceforth, when sitting in the counting-house by myself, perhaps at dead of night, I shall permit myself to imagine that Caroline may be leaning over my shoulder reading with me from the same book, or sitting at my side engaged in her own particular task, and now and then raising her unseen eyes to my face to read there my thoughts."

"You need fear no such infliction. I do not come near you; I only stand afar off, watching what may become of you."

"When I walk out along the hedgerows in the evening after the mill is shut, or at night when I take the watchman's place, I shall fancy the flutter of every little bird over its nest, the rustle of every leaf, a movement made by you; tree-shadows will take your shape; in the white sprays of hawthorn I shall imagine glimpses of you. Lina, you will haunt me."

"I will never be where you would not wish me to be, nor see nor hear what you would wish unseen and unheard."

"I shall see you in my very mill in broad daylight. Indeed, I have seen you there once. But a week ago I was standing at the top of one of my long rooms; girls were working at the other end, and amongst half a dozen of them, moving to and fro, I seemed to see a figure resembling yours. It was some effect of doubtful light or shade, or of dazzling sunbeam. I walked up to this group. What I sought had glided away; I found myself between two buxom lasses in pinafores."

"I shall not follow you into your mill, Robert, unless you call me there."

"Nor is that the only occasion on which imagination has played me a trick. One night, when I came home late from market, I walked into the cottage parlour thinking to find Hortense; but instead of her I thought I found you. There was no candle in the room; my sister had taken the light upstairs with her. The window-blind was not drawn, and broad moonbeams poured through the panes. There you were, Lina, at the casement, shrinking a little to one side in an attitude not unusual with you. You were dressed in white, as I have seen you dressed at an evening party. For half a second your fresh, living face seemed turned towards me, looking at me; for half a second my idea was to go and take your hand, to chide you for your long absence, and welcome your present visit. Two steps forward broke the spell. The drapery of the dress changed outline; the tints of the complexion dissolved, and were formless. Positively, as I reached the spot, there was nothing left but the sweep of a white muslin curtain, and a balsam plant in a flower-pot, covered with a flush of bloom. 'Sic transit,' et cetera."

...

"When did you ever wish me anything else? What is Fanny waiting for? I told her to walk on. Oh! we have reached the churchyard. Then we are to part here, I suppose. We might have sat a few minutes in the church porch, if the girl had not been with us. It is so fine a night, so summer-mild and still, I have no particular wish to return yet to the Hollow."

"But we cannot sit in the porch now, Robert."

Caroline said this because Moore was turning her round towards it.

"Perhaps not. But tell Fanny to go in. Say we are coming. A few minutes will make no difference."

The church clock struck ten.

"My uncle will be coming out to take his usual sentinel round, and he always surveys the church and churchyard."

"And if he does? If it were not for Fanny, who knows we are here, I should find pleasure in dodging and eluding him. We could be under the east window when he is at the porch; as he came round to the north side we could wheel off to the south; we might at a pinch hide behind some of the monuments. That tall erection of the Wynnes would screen us completely."

"Robert, what good spirits you have! Go! go!" added Caroline hastily. "I hear the front door——"

"I don't want to go; on the contrary, I want to stay."

"You know my uncle will be terribly angry. He forbade me to see you because you are a Jacobin."

"A queer Jacobin!"

"Go, Robert, he is coming; I hear him cough."

"Diable! It is strange—what a pertinacious wish I feel to stay!"

That really got my hopes up for Caroline!!!

[zaphiragirl]

Hii! Thanks for clearing my doubts about the laurels! Finally the Cafe is coming along hopefully it will be opened by thursday.

I'm really happy to be on this forum too! I've ejoyed it more than I thought I would!! Today I finally had the opportunity to put my claws around my Nook and read chap. 19.

After that  chapter I don't need anything else I'm almost sure that Shirley knows Caroline's feelings towards Moore, she probably likes him too, but she does not love him and she has already accepted that (in my mind). I was surprised that in that chap. Caroline didn't hold herself back when talking, she is becoming more strongwilled as the story advances. I like how Bronte is letting the reader see Shirley's influence on Caroline work. As for the battle I have a lot to say but I'll wait and post about that later...

"Sometimes I think she praises him in order to get Caroline to come out and admit to something," I think exactly the same and I hope that is what is happening...the heroine of the novel to actually be playing on her "best-friend" knowing she is madly in love with Moore and snatching him away?? Jah! That won't be cooler than ice that will be simply cruel I rest my hopes that Bronte won't give us that ending. 

"Now, in Chapter 13, I really started to wonder about Moore's feelings, and if perhaps he isn't interested in Caroline, after all. I thought that he was almost romantic during their conversation on the way, and then he kept saying that he wanted to stay with her a while."

I thought that too and was little annoyed about it also. For me it was a little confusing to show and romantic-lover attitude at that moment it felt like teasing Caroline with the idea of lovers that do not want to bid each other good-bye. Moore's character is becoming a puzzle for me, he ceirtainly is the heroe of the novel ok but he is hated and loved he is hard and sweet loving and mean all at the same but in different scenes!! Sometimes these two personalities of the bussiness Moore and the serene calm and warm Robert get on my nerves, almost as contradictory as the curates!

Thanks for all the comments!! I'm loving this disscussion a lot! Let's see if this week I'll be able to read more, I start school now and that is torture! Dx But hopefully on the school bus I'll have plenty of "me, myself & my nook" time to keep up with the reading!!

[Peppermill]

I found very Victorian, very tiresome the argument between Caroline and her uncle at the beginning of Chapter 11 on whether she might seek a position as a governess.  The attitudes Bronte has Mr. Helstone express towards the fickleness of women eventually became tedious, this century later, at least to me.

[shmengee]

I agree with you, it is tedious!  His character seems almost unbelievably boring and I keep wondering if later in the book he will become more interesting or not.  I thought it was crazy Shirley didn't even come up in the book until after 200 pages in!

[shmengee]

This probably sounds stupid, but I just got really confused about the two Moores.  There are two right? Robert and Gerard?  I just got confused because most of the time it just says Moore or Mr. Moore and now I don't know who is who.  I thought everything was Robert this whole time, what has Gerard done so far?  I'm on chapter 16.

[dulcinea3]

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shmengee wrote:

This probably sounds stupid, but I just got really confused about the two Moores.  There are two right? Robert and Gerard?  I just got confused because most of the time it just says Moore or Mr. Moore and now I don't know who is who.  I thought everything was Robert this whole time, what has Gerard done so far?  I'm on chapter 16.

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No, actually it's one guy - Robert Gerard Moore.  They do use both names pretty much interchangeably, it seemed to me.  I think that they seem to use Gerard more when they're talking about business and Robert more when talking about him at home, or when Caroline refers to him.  I think that Gerard is more like a second last name, and Robert is his first name.  They have mentioned a brother, but his name is Louis and he doesn't show up until later.