BELATED HAPPY THANKSGIVING EVERYONE!

[IlanaSimons]

Hi Choisya,
Thanks for understanding--I did travel to visit my family for Thanksgiving. Now, I'm back. So...yes: Frank is winding down, and I've loved that you've been here for this ride. Thank you so much for your sharp contributions. I've really enjoyed this discussion.
I will launch the British Classics section soon, and then I'll come back in with a Classic Book, probably some Kafka, after the New Year.
I really hope you stay on board
Ilana

[IlanaSimons]

Yes. Thanks for these comments. Logon from your travels, please!

[Choisya]

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IlanaSimons wrote:
Hi Choisya,
Thanks for understanding--I did travel to visit my family for Thanksgiving. Now, I'm back. So...yes: Frank is winding down, and I've loved that you've been here for this ride. Thank you so much for your sharp contributions. I've really enjoyed this discussion.
I will launch the British Classics section soon, and then I'll come back in with a Classic Book, probably some Kafka, after the New Year.
I really hope you stay on board
Ilana

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Thanks Ilana. I will certainly stay on board if you do some Kafka, or any other European Classic - how about a Zola?

[IlanaSimons]

Zola's a great suggestion. I'll keep it in mind.
And can't wait to see what you say in the Kafka world.

[chad]

A little bird told me about "law and science mixed together", but I had to elucidate.
I also attempted to go into the German/Jewish controversy that surrounds the novel and I think that it's important to discuss because of where the story takes place, in Germany and Switzerland, and because of the last name, "Frankenstein." So just briefly, in light of the use of the words virtue and vice in the story: the Jewish merchant class's virtue was their vice. That is, they viewed their own financial success as a virtue and also as a vice. But we don't feel like blaming our world evils on the Jewish, Christians would be guilty of the same, puritanism being the best example I could mention. So, Shelley warns us that when our virtues and become our vices or when we view that making money is both a virtue and a vice, we leave no room for ethics, increasing our chances for the production of a monster, like Enron, if you want to use it as an example, or a Frankenstein of some kind. Enron would be a case where no business ethics were used, or there was certainly a lack thereof, I think.


Chad

[chad]

Whoa!

I just looked up the definition of vice- a little different than what I expected. I think virtue and vice are antonyms, but, as I stated above, may eventually become one.

I think my sister my have written a paper on Victor Frankenstein's suicidal qualities or it may have been one of her friends in college. I think "Frankenstein" is about expression of emotion and our inability to express emotion or our inablity to temper the emotional outburts of others, which turns into suicide and murder- the evolution of our language is simply not able to keep with our own development, our own physical evolution or our own rapid societal changes. I could be writing as my sister, in which case you're getting my sister all over again.

That's it, but there's so much more,
Chad

Message Edited by chad on 11-29-200605:43 PM

I have a few more pages to go!

Message Edited by chad on 11-29-200605:45 PM

Message Edited by chad on 11-29-200606:12 PM

Message Edited by chad on 11-29-200606:13 PM

[chad]

We see the polar locations as regions which are critical to the world's survival. A better understanding of the geophysical processes which occur at the poles would lead to our own survival and a better understanding of our own origins. In other words, an understanding of the forces and interactions occurring at the poles would be an understanding of forces that might bring life from death.

Chad

Message Edited by chad on 11-30-200612:58 PM

[chad]

Also, for my U of D followers of "Frankenstein", careful- the two fields of law and science do merge into economics, but at the absolute point of convergence, in a world where we are governed by economics only, there would be no reason for discourse, no reason to reason and, dare I say it, no reason to feel- literally no language, I think. We would be different beings altogether if we existed at that point.


Scary? I think so Wee,
Chad

PS- At this point also, humans would be harvested like the fish according to your fishery management plans in your fishery economics book. We would possibly be looking at an optimal yield of humans.

I think we're saying paranoid schizo at the Ol' U of D still, I hope not!

Message Edited by chad on 12-02-200602:18 PM

[chad]

Frankenstein is layered both horizontally, by letters, and vertically, as we travel to the beginnings of our origins, to God perhaps- like lattitude and longititude, linking us all by degrees...

Chad

[chad]

Ok, this is important:

We literally travel in time everyday as we travel from point A to point B. As we travel we may encounter old sights, sounds, familiar people, and we may remember experiences or be transported to an old mindset or our "younger" selves. So, the faster I move from point A to point B on the globe, the greater the impact. For example, young Victor Frankenstein is transported back to his younger days when he rides in a carraige from school in Ingolstadt to Geneva; he is overwhelmed by this experience and the change seems to overload his senses. That would make time machines out of carraiges, ships, cars or airplanes,- the airplane would be the best example as we adjust our watches forward backwards in time.

Well, it might seem superfluous, but a separation of our "younger" selves, ultimately caused by our own physical movement by "minutes" and "degrees" on the globe, can overwhelm our senses, transporting us back to a time in mind but not in body. Our environment changes, homes sell and the familiar disappears which can lead to a sense of loss our "younger" selves, leading to the creation of a new "younger" self or procreation, helping us return to ourselves again, but helping us to ultimately return to innocence.

Chad

PS- Lots more here on time travel from "The Franken"- language might be the link that enables us to transport "physically" back in time- kind of like "The Butterfly Effect", if you've seen it.

Message Edited by chad on 12-05-200601:14 PM

Well, language does this already, but it brings "times of long ago" to your doorstep. Language transforms mind which transforms our own physical environment. We can literally bring back the Roman Republic by reading about it. Ha!Ha!- I'm not saying that we are that.

Message Edited by chad on 12-05-200601:27 PM

Message Edited by chad on 12-05-200601:38 PM

Message Edited by chad on 12-05-200601:38 PM

Message Edited by chad on 12-05-200601:39 PM

[pmath]

Chad, I admire your enthusiasm for Frankenstein: I read it some years ago, but I was very impressed with it, too!

BTW, when you're editing a message, if you go to the bottom of the text in the "Message Body" entry box, you can delete the time and date stamps of your previous edits (each between a <p> and a </p>) before you submit the latest version. This way, only the time and date of your last edit will be displayed!

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chad wrote:
...

Message Edited by chad on 12-05-200601:14 PM

Well, language does this already, but it brings "times of long ago" to your doorstep. Language transforms mind which transforms our own physical environment. We can literally bring back the Roman Republic by reading about it. Ha!Ha!- I'm not saying that we are that.

Message Edited by chad on 12-05-200601:27 PM

Message Edited by chad on 12-05-200601:38 PM

Message Edited by chad on 12-05-200601:38 PM

Message Edited by chad on 12-05-200601:39 PM

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chad wrote (message linked here):
Whoa- it's good that I write on the web-it's been a while, the new edit feature is great, but it records when you edit!!!

Chad

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[chad]

Thanks!

I go back through and look for typos, etc. It looks like it's distracting to read.

As for my "time travel" "train of thought"(I hope that I'm on the same line of thinking as Shelley): The only way to solve some world problems is to travel back to the point at which the problem arose. The best idea for a policy maker, constantly looking for practical solutions to today's problems, might be to take classes in physics. I might travel to the point at which the atom bomb was made, or when the word "friend" was created, or possibly when Adam Smith created economics, etc. etc.

Chad

PS- Adam Smith was possibly a pseudonym or the founder of economics was possibly Jewish or partly Jewish, etc. Well, I think you get it, I ramble on and on... The pictures of Adam Smith show big noses! I don't always have time to edit or write beautiful essays, etc. The informality of the forum is an asset- I just like writing a few quick notes for the most part.

Message Edited by chad on 12-07-200612:21 PM

[chad]

Well, I don't have anything else that's practical for the marine policy center to discuss except for the economics and time travel discussions. We're looking at economics as the final "vice" which pushes to our own origins, whatever these may be, and we're also looking at the impossiblity of returning to innocence unless we travel through time in this timeless classic, I think. Sorry Marine policy folks!

Chad

[chad]

Just to add:

I think I might have mentioned the danger of education of language in business or politics. Self education or the materials presented by an educator can bring the time period of the author(s) to you, transforming "your world" into the time period of the author. I think I want to leave some time periods wherever they may lie, but we are still trying to dig up ancient writings today....

Chad

Message Edited by chad on 12-08-200601:24 PM

[chad]

We move through time as we move, however we move, between two points. Writing complicates things- an author can take me to other places and time periods, while I remain stationary. It sounds simple, but I think I can get even more complicated if you really, really want me to.....

Chad

[jmpsalem]

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Choisya wrote:
Not being able to delete the messages I have read is proving very tiresome and time-consuming. So much so that I do not think I will get around to discussing the later chapters. Also, the email facility, which I thought would prove useful, is sending me everything in duplicate and is sending the whole page, not the message which replies to mine. There are a few bugs in this new system which need urgent attention!

The new system is not as conducive to discussion as the old one and I really would like to know why it has been so drastically changed. As the old saying goes, if it ain't broke, why fix it??? It is noticeable that there are far fewer readers here than on previous boards and that many B&N regulars have not joined in - I therefore wonder whether it was the intention of B&N to weed a lot of people out. Was the old system was a victim of its own success?

Message Edited by Choisya on 11-01-200610:32 PM

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I concur with Choisya's critique of this "new" format. It is extremely difficult to navigate. Also, there is no way to determine what I have already read or to simply select "unread" messages. Choisya is also correct in her assessment of the difficulty if no impossibility for discussion.
I am also of the school of thought that states : "If it aint broke, dont fix it!" There was nothing wrong with the former format - nothing at all.

[chad]

Degrees of lattitude and longitude, like words themselves, represent changes of distance and time. So, I feel that making a correlation between words and degrees is necessary for an understanding of "Frankenstein" and Mary Shelley.

What's happening? I'm hoping we're not playing "elitist education", but, as a few people point out, we are still paying for education. Tuition still exists.

Chad


PS- Jewish/German issues are important, but the last name was the title, not the full name, "Victor Frankenstein"- which I think is also an important point. And.....golly gee jeepers, I think that's it- I may be getting a B&N gift card for Christmas, but I may have to wait until next week to join you for Moby Dick!! A whale of a tail!

Message Edited by chad on 12-09-200603:41 PM

[chad]

Conjunctions, like the seams of Frankenstein, bind, but have changed little through time.

Chad

[chad]

Hi:

I think that other people can change us by degrees....with words. Don't forget that books, writing, poetry, music, etc. were written at various times and in different parts of the world. A written piece is ultimately a manifestation of the geophysical processes where the words were first formed, tempered by time and words from other parts of the globe, of course.

Chad