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Everyman
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Re: Sherlock Holmes: Week One - The Red-Headed League

Sounds like fun!

Did you bring back any great read recommendations for us?

Now that that's over with, you can come in and give us some great insights on Red Headed League before we move on to the next story!

becke_davis wrote:
Just natural born geniuses, in that case...


Had a great time at my conference. Met a lot of authors. This was a local event, about 200 authors but most in the romance, fantasy, sci-fi and mystery/suspense/romance genres. Lots of fun!



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becke_davis
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Re: Sherlock Holmes: Week One - The Red-Headed League

I brought back a ton of books but haven't read them yet (!) so no recommendations just yet.  My dad just read Big City, Bad Blood by Sean Chercover, though, and he said that was great.  It's getting amazing reviews.
 
Let me ponder on Red-headed League and post later this evening.  I've only been home a couple of hours and my mind isn't focused on Holmes yet.  It's my husband's turn to go to a conference so the house is in an uproar!
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KristyR
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Re: Sherlock Holmes: Week One - The Red-Headed League: Wilson


Everyman wrote:
Don't forget that at that time, all carpentry was done by hand, so he would have worked his right hand a LOT with sawing, planing, hammering, driving screws, all by hand. My hand gets tired after just a few hours in the shop, and that's mixing up hand tools with power tools. It doesn't surprise me at all, particularly if the "sizes" of hands weren't all that great -- recall that gloves were a fashion accessory at the time and were presumably made to fit precisely and tightly, so the difference between one size and another may have been noticeable to the astute eye, but not all that much in reality.

Nadine wrote:
Wilson has at some time done manual labor.

"Your right hand is quite a size larger than your left. You have worked with it, and the muscles are more developed."

Wilson acknowledges that he at one time was a ship's carpenter.

Not recently, though. Muscles don't last forever. It would be different if he admitted to doing recent manual labor--though his long periods of writing my be considered "hand exercise." Holmes just says generally manual labor. I don't see how being a carpenter, even recently would increase hand muscles. Maybe if his right arm was larger but not his hand. And most forms of manual labor might not change the muscle development on one side of the body over the other. Lets say he had been digging ditches. Well, I am right handed--as Wilson obviously is. But when I use a shovel I use my right hand to control it and do the heavy lifting with my left hand.

Now the only way I can think that a person might cause unusual muscle development in the hand would be in an exercise that works the muscles of the hand. I have a set of these spring squeezing devices designed for such purposes, or someone might use a rubber ball. But they would have to be using it in one hand only, frequently and recently.

If I had made Holmes' observation, I would have concluded there was some weakness in his left hand so he favored his right hand and did not use his left hand much. This could have been due to illness or injury and I would have rather tracked along those line.

Of course you do have to go with success. Holmes was pronounced "correct."





I have an annotated Sherlock Holmes and the note on this says

Cf. "Peculiarities of Workmen," in Tit-Bits (January 10, 1891): "A carpenter's shoulder is almost invariably higher than his left, in consequence of having to use his right arm all the time in planing and hammering. With every shaving his body rises with a jerk, and it finally becomes natural to him to hold himself in that way."
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Everyman
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Re: Sherlock Holmes: Week One - The Red-Headed League: Wilson

Useful comment -- thanks!

Which annotated version are you using?

KristyR wrote:
I have an annotated Sherlock Holmes and the note on this says

Cf. "Peculiarities of Workmen," in Tit-Bits (January 10, 1891): "A carpenter's shoulder is almost invariably higher than his left, in consequence of having to use his right arm all the time in planing and hammering. With every shaving his body rises with a jerk, and it finally becomes natural to him to hold himself in that way."

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KristyR
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Re: Sherlock Holmes: Week One - The Red-Headed League



dulcinea3 wrote:


becke_davis wrote:
By the way, I looked up Holmes comment: Omne ignotum magnifico. It translates to: "everything unknown appears magnificent."

Thanks, Becke, I was wondering about that.  I think that Holmes was rather taken aback and a little insulted by Wilson's response to his explanation.  He expects people to be astounded, both by his initial deductions, and by his explanations of how he came about them (admiration for his powers of observation and deduction), and Wilson was only impressed by the first.

Incidentally, I am using a 'facsimile edition' of The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes, the first collection of stories, and this is the second story in the collection.  However, Holmes refers to Mary Sutherland, whose case (A Case of Identity) was included third in the collection.  I wonder if whoever compiled the collection from the stories published in The Strand made a mistake, or if it is simply a case of Watson apparently writing about the adventures out of order, which I noted a number of times while reading the entire collection.  He seems to jump around a bit, writing about them in the order that they occur to him.

 





My book states that -

"A Case of Identity," the case of Miss Mary Sutherland, was not published in the Strand Magazine until September 1891, the month after publication of "The Red-Headed League."
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KristyR
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Re: Sherlock Holmes: Week One - The Red-Headed League: Wilson



Everyman wrote:
Useful comment -- thanks!

Which annotated version are you using?

KristyR wrote:
I have an annotated Sherlock Holmes and the note on this says

Cf. "Peculiarities of Workmen," in Tit-Bits (January 10, 1891): "A carpenter's shoulder is almost invariably higher than his left, in consequence of having to use his right arm all the time in planing and hammering. With every shaving his body rises with a jerk, and it finally becomes natural to him to hold himself in that way."




I am using The New Annotated Sherlock Holmes, edited by Leslie S. Klinger. She (or he?) says in the preface that:

"I set out to create for this edition an annotated text that reflects the spectrum of views on Sherlockian controversies rather than my own theories. In addition, this work brings current Baring-Gould's long-outdated survey of the literature, including references to hundreds of works published subsequently. Recognizing that many of the events recorded in the stories took place in England over 100 to 150 years ago, it also includes much background information on the Victorian age, its history, culture, and vocabulary."

"This is not a work for the serious student of Arthur Conan Doyle. While Doylean scholarship is vitally important, the reader of these volumes will not find reference to the literary sources of the stories or to the biographical incidents in the life of Sir Arthur that may be reflected in the Canon. I perpetuate the gentle fiction that Holmes and Watson really lived and that (except as noted) Dr. John H. Watson wrote the stories about Sherlock Holmes, even though he graciously allowed them to be published under the byline of his colleague and literary agent Sir Arthur Conan Doyle."

I didn't even realize that I bought an annotated version. It's been sitting on my - to be read shelf- forever, so it was a pleasant surprise.
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KristyR
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Copying the Britannica

Thomas L. Stix calculates that based on the average page of the Britannica, according to Jabez Wilson, he copied 6,419,616 words in eight weeks, working only four hours a day. This is a rate of 33,435 word per hour, or 557.25 words per minute. What a phenomenon!
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becke_davis
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Re: Sherlock Holmes: Week One - The Red-Headed League

The subject of inconsistencies came up on the Sign of the Four thread.  I searched online and found this comment on the Red-Headed League (a link to the full site is on the other thread):
 

The dates in 'The Red-Headed League'

Another crux involving dates, this one revolves around the formation of the Red-Headed League and its subsequent dissolution. According to Jabez Wilson, the newspaper advertisement for the Red-headed League was published April 27, 1890, "Just two months ago." This implied that the case began in early July of 1890. The problem is that Watson clearly stated he had called upon Holmes "in the Autumn of last year." Further, the cardboard note which Wilson found tacked to the door clearly stated that "The Red-Headed League is dissolved. October 9, 1890."

One interesting theory to resolve this was published by Brad Keefauver in the June 1983 issue of the Baker Street Journal. Mr. Keefauver's theory was that Jabez Wilson was lying to Holmes about the true length of his employment (really 24 weeks rather than 8 weeks). As he also later wrote, "the digging of a tunnel and the copying of all that encyclopaedia material would both fit more comfortably into a twenty-four week span." In other words, Watson correctly recorded the dates of the newspaper and the cardboard sign, but Wilson kept emphasizing an eight-week period. Was this to keep Holmes's fee down?

And speaking of this same case, something that has always bothered me was that 14-year-old girl who did "a bit of simple cooking". How could John Clay have been tunneling under the pavement all that time without her noticing anything amiss? Could she have been an accomplice? What ever happened to her?

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IBIS
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Re: Sherlock Holmes: Week One - The Red-Headed League



becke_davis wrote:
 
And speaking of (The RedHeaded League) something that has always bothered me was that 14-year-old girl who did "a bit of simple cooking". How could John Clay have been tunneling under the pavement all that time without her noticing anything amiss? Could she have been an accomplice? What ever happened to her?


I, too, wondered about the absence of this young girl... wouldn't she have been suspicious to see Jabez Wilson leave the pawn shop 4 hours a day, and his assistant doing his "photography" in the basement?
 
I thought maybe John Clay gave her 4 hours off each day... you know how much teenage girls love to shop...

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Re: Sherlock Holmes: Week One - The Red-Headed League: Wilson


KristyR wrote:
I perpetuate the gentle fiction that Holmes and Watson really lived and that (except as noted) Dr. John H. Watson wrote the stories about Sherlock Holmes, even though he graciously allowed them to be published under the byline of his colleague and literary agent Sir Arthur Conan Doyle."

Fiction?

FICTION???

That's the FACT!!!

:smileyhappy:
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pjmanley41
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Re: Sherlock Holmes: Week One - The Red-Headed League

I watch and rewatch all the SH videos. I love them. Then I have to go back to the SH story and see how closely they match.
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bentley
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Re: Sherlock Holmes: Week One - The Red-Headed League



Nadine wrote:
Granda Red Headed League

This is a video of the Red Headed League from the TV series. It is excellent. I've ordered a bunch from this series from Netflix to watch. I didn't find a lot of what we are covering on the Internet.

The video from the TV series actually does improve on the short story. The subsidiary characters are better developed and there is an arch-enemy (I will not say who right now) which I think was a good move on the part of the TV series to bring in some continuity with a constant villain. It is pretty true to the story only padding out a bit to fill up the hour.

The video is 51 minutes. The short story is only 17 pages. It will probably take longer to watch the video than read the story! You might want to read the story first. You will need a full hour to settle in and watch the video since it is all one continuous showing.

http://www.guba.com/watch/3000051895

Note: This particular video site is dominated by videos that might not be considered appropriate for family viewing, so I would not suggest searching it beyond my link if you are sensitive to such material.




Terrific thank you.
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bentley
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Re: Sherlock Holmes: Week One - The Red-Headed League



Nadine wrote:
I found this very interesting video analysis of the Red-Headed league and how it was transferred from the book to TV film for one scene.

http://www.teachers.tv/video/13729




Interesting.