01-17-2010 11:31 AM
01-17-2010 12:23 PM
B&N is a retailer. It doesn't outsource the creation of e-books (nor does it have the license to, except for books published under it's own imprint and out of copyright books). Publishers create the ebook versions of their products and then sell them to B&N (and other retailers). While I believe that B&N is passing along complaints about ebook formatting to the appropriate place(s), perhaps your complaint would be better directed toward the publisher of the book.
01-17-2010 03:11 PM
01-17-2010 03:42 PM
Wow. pardon me for pointing out, after you state:
It's obvious that B&N did not vet the basic structure of the book, they did not check that whoever they outsourced this too did the job correctly.
that B&N doesn't actually "outsource" books. Even if you had a problem with a printed book, sure B&N could refund your money, but they couldn't reprint the book for you. The best that they could do to fix the actual problem with the book would be to go back to the publisher and request that they fix the problem. The process is exactly the same with ebooks. Which, according to other threads on this site that reference books that have had problems (if I recall correctly, the Lovely Bones doesn't appear correctly), is exactly what they do. I was simply pointing out that you could very easily cut out the middleman by complaining directly to the publisher, who made the error in the first place, which will probably (although not definitely) take less time.
My response was not meant to be smug, or insulting, but clearly your own issues are clouding your ability to read a fairly non-controversial response to your own wrong statements about how the process works.
01-17-2010 03:46 PM
You really didn't have to explain that B&N is a retailer because I knew that. Absolutely nothing that you so smugly stated is even remotely relevant to my point. I will raise similar issues in the future as I see fit. B&N solid it to me, for $9.99. I hold retailers responsible for the quality of what they sell. In this particular case, my issue has nothing to do with Content but with the fit and finish of the material and how well it works with the Nook. If I buy a paper book with the table of contents missing, as is effectively the case here, I would expect B&N to replace it or refund my money. If the entire batch was like that, I expect them to remove it from their shelves. I expect my retailers to work quality issues with their vendors. This is standard commercial practice in this country and all your stuff is irrelevant to the point. I don't expect B&N to "pass along complaints", I expect them to fix the problem and refund the customers money if they cannot. Also, the book works better with other document readers but one of my issues is unique to the nook in particular. Shall I find out who wrote the software for the nook and take it up with them in your world view? This was completely appropriate and when I find quality problems with eBooks I purchased at B&N, I will bring them to the eBook help board. Also, it's not an either / or. I don't think it is "better directed to the publisher" but that it can be directed to the publisher as well ... which it has been before your snotty response. I'd like a B&N employee to respond or for other customers to share similar experiences. I don't need to learn about the supply chain from someone who thinks he is the only person who knows about it.
I think your complaint that this is B&N fault is ridiculous. B&N offers samples for just this reason. In addition, had you purchased a book online and received it and notated that the publisher did not include an index, would you still blame B&N? This is a publisher issue, not B&N. B&N in no way has control over the content of a book.
01-17-2010 04:19 PM
Although the content is superb, I'm left very disappointed because someone didn't set the book up correctly. The "Chapters" takes the reader to the chapter section OF THE INDEX and not the chapter. Thus, I cannot choose the argument / essay that interests me. ...It's obvious that B&N did not vet the basic structure of the book, they did not check that whoever they outsourced this too did the job correctly.
As others have said, B&N is a bookseller. It is the publisher's job to make sure their books are properly formatted.
In your next post you said:
"...If I buy a paper book with the table of contents missing, as is effectively the case here, I would expect B&N to replace it or refund my money. If the entire batch was like that, I expect them to remove it from their shelves. ...I don't expect B&N to "pass along complaints", I expect them to fix the problem and refund the customers money if they cannot."
There I both agree and disagree. If someone complains about a book's formatting & B&N determines that there is a problem they should let the publisher know & ask them to fix it--as has been noted B&N is not a publisher & can't fix books themselves. At the same time the person with the problem book should have their money returned & the book should be withdrawn until the publisher fixes the problem.
That is how it is done at another ebook site with a rival reader which shall remain nameless.
01-18-2010 09:20 AM
Alley415 - I'm sorry you think my comment is ridiculous. Perhaps you should have read it more carefully because the sample doesn't and wouldn't reveal the issue.
The issue is with how the Chapter index is written ... something THAT DOES NOT SHOW IN A SAMPLE. So, when I select the chapters I want in the Nook IT GOES TO THE BACK OF THE BOOK AND NOT THE CHAPTER!
This is an issue with the structure and format of the book. The analogy IS EXACTLY THE SAME as paper books with pages missing (the table of contents). B&N would refund money for a paper book with the TOC missing or having erroneous page numbers. They would work with the publisher to get non-defective books delivered. They also might review QA procedures with the publisher so the issue was not repeated. I am asking for the same standard they apply to delivering all other products. How is that ridiculous.
Please re-read my post before you denegrate it.
02-10-2010 04:09 PM
I hope the hostile tone of the other posters hasn't kept you from returning to check for feedback to your original post. To the posters who responded critically to your very understandable frustration, I can only say that I thought these threads were here for the purpose of helping each other.
So, GeoffreyF, I agree with you that B&N should have contracted with anyone creating ebooks for the nook to make the format consistent. I've run into the same problems you have with many ebooks and I agree that B&N should be responsible for ebook layout content.
Years ago, when PCs hit the market, software companies went wild producing programs that were so widely different from each other in the way they were used, you had to spend quite a bit of time learning each one. Although Microsoft wasn't responsible for the inconsistencies, they eventually created standards for software makers to follow and now Windows based software works pretty consistently across the board. When you open a program, you can be guaranteed there will be certain things you can always do, such as Ctrl-C to copy, and so forth. B&N should have done this from the beginning with any company with whom they contracted to publish content for the nook.
Sorry, I know that was a long paragraph.
Having said that, I also have the ebook Thirteen American Arguments and therefore have the same frustrations. I hate that you can't jump ahead to pages and I think B&N should fix this on the nook ASAP.
Here's a workaround that might help you.
Although it is horribly time consuming, you only have to do it once:
1. When the book is first downloaded, page through and bookmark chapter headings. You can make this process a bit easier by doing find on the chapter head names.
2. As you read, bookmark places you might want to revisit.
Clunky, I admit, but it at least helps you navigate the book.
Until B&N addresses the problem of not being able to jump to pages, or ebook format standards, bookmarking is about the best solution.
02-10-2010 05:16 PM
Thanks for the response.
The story continues :-)
When the update came out (1.2) my copy of 13 American arguments no longer was even readable. I tried reloading it ... no dice. So, the problem was worse than the lack of indexing. I called customer service and told them about that and the indexing issue (as well as the other book I mentioned earlier). I have to say, they were a lot nicer than some of the jerks on this thread. So it is not a "Publisher issue" but a B&N issue, according to B&N.
Anyway, they acknowledge the problem as well as the no-read for Thirteen american arguments. They told me that they will work this with the publisher and it will be corrected. When it is, if you have the book, delete it from the nook (while USB connected) and then fetch it again ... you will get the new indexed version if it is available at that point. They refunded my money for thirteen arguments ... but I kept the other which is still readable. When it's all fixed ... I'll re-purchase the one and reload the other.
I had worked out the book mark work around by the way.
02-10-2010 05:56 PM
1. Your complaints are fair, just misdirected. Write the publisher. Suggest that the book they are selling doesn't uphold to their high publishing standards and reflects poorly on them.
2. B&Ns has no control over the chapters or index of a book. No one pulls Ulyssess from the shelves because a reader doesn't agree with James Joyces terrible approach to punctuation (which makes reading it just that much more of a chore).
3. It would be impossible for B&Ns to verify the content of every eBook they sell, just as it would be impossible for them to verify every dead-tree book. Customers need to tell them. Request a refund... cordially.
4. Write a review of the eBook. Warn other customers away.
5. Hopefully B&Ns adds the Go To Page function soonish.