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Distinguished Bibliophile
patgolfneb
Posts: 1,759
Registered: ‎09-10-2011

Re: A little disappointed in some prices

I think they get it. They are trying to slow the transition to e books, and use the e book sales to cover p book losses. We see e books as a separate business market. They see it as one business with 2 sales channels. I am sure they have contacts with printers, shipping firms, even authors worried about profitable hardcover sales lost, all in their ears about how this is harming them.
Inspired Wordsmith
BrandieC
Posts: 585
Registered: ‎05-19-2010

Re: A little disappointed in some prices

@EinsteinPD:

 

I'm probably going to regret replying to your post, but do you really want to start a "pissing contest" about the respective academic qualifications of posters to this board?  I hold a doctorate, too, but I don't see the need to brag about it.  I want the readers of my posts to respond to them on their own merits; if someone's response to my writing depends on whether they are impressed by my academic credentials, I'm not interested in what they have to say.

 

While I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't be proud of your accomplishments, I am suggesting that your posts tend to imply that we should give greater credence to your views because you hold a Ph.D. and that such an implication is insulting to our intelligence.

Distinguished Bibliophile
patgolfneb
Posts: 1,759
Registered: ‎09-10-2011

Re: A little disappointed in some prices

BradieC, answered well. I would add since PHD's are awarded for expertise in fairly narrow subject areas, time aquiring knowledge in broader areas is often part of the cost. To keep up in your specialty requires additional time. Yes those learning skills and thinking skills can be used in many areas. Just like IQ is often given to much respect, some of the poorest thinkers I have encountered were regulars at mensa events. Truly thoughtful people rely on many sources for input, especially those who disagree with them.
Inspired Bibliophile
deesy58
Posts: 2,486
Registered: ‎01-22-2012
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Re: A little disappointed in some prices


patgolfneb wrote:
BradieC, answered well. I would add since PHD's are awarded for expertise in fairly narrow subject areas, time aquiring knowledge in broader areas is often part of the cost. To keep up in your specialty requires additional time. Yes those learning skills and thinking skills can be used in many areas. Just like IQ is often given to much respect, some of the poorest thinkers I have encountered were regulars at mensa events. Truly thoughtful people rely on many sources for input, especially those who disagree with them.

Did anybody see the original post before Alex edited it?  This person sounds like he comes from a place where education is not valued and might, in fact, be derided.  He sounded a bit defensive, as though he had been attacked for acquiring a PhD.  Perhaps he got his forum mixed up and replied to something that was not actually posted on this forum ... ?

Distinguished Bibliophile
patgolfneb
Posts: 1,759
Registered: ‎09-10-2011

Re: A little disappointed in some prices

I believe there was a previous dust up over bona fides. The current one might have come from the Sci Fi thread discussing if star travel is practical.
Inspired Bibliophile
deesy58
Posts: 2,486
Registered: ‎01-22-2012
0 Kudos

Re: A little disappointed in some prices


patgolfneb wrote:
I believe there was a previous dust up over bona fides. The current one might have come from the Sci Fi thread discussing if star travel is practical.

Ahh, okay.  That explains a lot.  Thanks Pat!

Contributor
vizeroth
Posts: 20
Registered: ‎08-27-2010

Re: A little disappointed in some prices

Personally, I see e-books as the same business market, without the insanely high costs of printing. In other words, if they're selling e-books at or near the price of a printed book, the profit margins are extremely high.

Additionally, as is the case with nearly all digital vs. physical publishing models, the factors that normally drive prices down in physical models just aren't there in digital models. More often than not I end up buying a physical copy of a book because it goes on sale or ends up in a used book store before the ebook becomes reasonably priced. This is especially true with the publishers that can't seem to coordinate a drop in ebook price when the paperback is released.
Correspondent
thelios
Posts: 103
Registered: ‎06-30-2010

Re: A little disappointed in some prices

Agreed, but as consumers pay the exorbitant prices for ebooks, they'll sell them all day like that. I myself have set a $9.99 ceiling on ebook prices for me to purchase. Nothing magical about $9.99.
You live and you learn, some people just live!
Inspired Wordsmith
beeyebickiebuy
Posts: 514
Registered: ‎03-21-2011

Re: A little disappointed in some prices


thelios wrote:
Agreed, but as consumers pay the exorbitant prices for ebooks, they'll sell them all day like that. I myself have set a $9.99 ceiling on ebook prices for me to purchase. Nothing magical about $9.99.

There is if you turn it upside down.  Paranoid

Bibliophile
bklvr896
Posts: 4,802
Registered: ‎12-31-2009

Re: A little disappointed in some prices


vizeroth wrote:
Personally, I see e-books as the same business market, without the insanely high costs of printing. In other words, if they're selling e-books at or near the price of a printed book, the profit margins are extremely high.

Additionally, as is the case with nearly all digital vs. physical publishing models, the factors that normally drive prices down in physical models just aren't there in digital models. More often than not I end up buying a physical copy of a book because it goes on sale or ends up in a used book store before the ebook becomes reasonably priced. This is especially true with the publishers that can't seem to coordinate a drop in ebook price when the paperback is released.

The printing costs have been discussed a lot here, and everything published, newspaper articles, etc, put the printing costs at about 12% of the total cost of the book.  Factor in that there are costs associated with creating and distributing the ebook, it doesn't appear that the cost of printing is that significant to make the profit margins "extremely high".  Honestly, in most areas, the material costs (in this case the paper, ink, etc) are not the significant cost in producing an item.  It's the labor and overhead, which includes the editors, account executives, marketing costs, etc, that make up the bulk of the costs.  A simplistic example is home improvement projects, I can buy a toilet for $100, but it's going to cost me about $250 to have someone install that toilet.

 

Most owners of ereaders that I know have pretty much quit buying printed books, as have I, and they don't seem to be put off by the price of the books.  At least some of the people who post here tend to be more aware of prices, but, represent an extremely small percentage of all users.  If users were that upset about the prices, then ebooks wouldn't be selling at the rates they are or have been.

 

 

Inspired Bibliophile
deesy58
Posts: 2,486
Registered: ‎01-22-2012

Re: A little disappointed in some prices


bklvr896 wrote:

vizeroth wrote:
Personally, I see e-books as the same business market, without the insanely high costs of printing. In other words, if they're selling e-books at or near the price of a printed book, the profit margins are extremely high.

Additionally, as is the case with nearly all digital vs. physical publishing models, the factors that normally drive prices down in physical models just aren't there in digital models. More often than not I end up buying a physical copy of a book because it goes on sale or ends up in a used book store before the ebook becomes reasonably priced. This is especially true with the publishers that can't seem to coordinate a drop in ebook price when the paperback is released.

The printing costs have been discussed a lot here, and everything published, newspaper articles, etc, put the printing costs at about 12% of the total cost of the book.  Factor in that there are costs associated with creating and distributing the ebook, it doesn't appear that the cost of printing is that significant to make the profit margins "extremely high".  Honestly, in most areas, the material costs (in this case the paper, ink, etc) are not the significant cost in producing an item.  It's the labor and overhead, which includes the editors, account executives, marketing costs, etc, that make up the bulk of the costs.  A simplistic example is home improvement projects, I can buy a toilet for $100, but it's going to cost me about $250 to have someone install that toilet.

 

Most owners of ereaders that I know have pretty much quit buying printed books, as have I, and they don't seem to be put off by the price of the books.  At least some of the people who post here tend to be more aware of prices, but, represent an extremely small percentage of all users.  If users were that upset about the prices, then ebooks wouldn't be selling at the rates they are or have been.

 

 


If we accept your assumptions about the 12% cost of printing, and just ignore the costs of distribution and storage, where does that money go if not to the bottom-line profits of the publisher?  Is it unreasonable for consumers to expect to share in the benefits of new technologies?  Why shouldn't the cost savings (or at least some of the cost savings) associated with the transition from paper and ink books to e-books be passed along to consumers? 

 

Oh, right ... corporate greed!  :smileysad:

Bibliophile
bklvr896
Posts: 4,802
Registered: ‎12-31-2009

Re: A little disappointed in some prices


deesy58 wrote:

bklvr896 wrote:

vizeroth wrote:
Personally, I see e-books as the same business market, without the insanely high costs of printing. In other words, if they're selling e-books at or near the price of a printed book, the profit margins are extremely high.

Additionally, as is the case with nearly all digital vs. physical publishing models, the factors that normally drive prices down in physical models just aren't there in digital models. More often than not I end up buying a physical copy of a book because it goes on sale or ends up in a used book store before the ebook becomes reasonably priced. This is especially true with the publishers that can't seem to coordinate a drop in ebook price when the paperback is released.

The printing costs have been discussed a lot here, and everything published, newspaper articles, etc, put the printing costs at about 12% of the total cost of the book.  Factor in that there are costs associated with creating and distributing the ebook, it doesn't appear that the cost of printing is that significant to make the profit margins "extremely high".  Honestly, in most areas, the material costs (in this case the paper, ink, etc) are not the significant cost in producing an item.  It's the labor and overhead, which includes the editors, account executives, marketing costs, etc, that make up the bulk of the costs.  A simplistic example is home improvement projects, I can buy a toilet for $100, but it's going to cost me about $250 to have someone install that toilet.

 

Most owners of ereaders that I know have pretty much quit buying printed books, as have I, and they don't seem to be put off by the price of the books.  At least some of the people who post here tend to be more aware of prices, but, represent an extremely small percentage of all users.  If users were that upset about the prices, then ebooks wouldn't be selling at the rates they are or have been.

 

 


If we accept your assumptions about the 12% cost of printing, and just ignore the costs of distribution and storage, where does that money go if not to the bottom-line profits of the publisher?  Is it unreasonable for consumers to expect to share in the benefits of new technologies?  Why shouldn't the cost savings (or at least some of the cost savings) associated with the transition from paper and ink books to e-books be passed along to consumers? 

 

Oh, right ... corporate greed!  :smileysad:


Why is making a profit always considered corporate greed?  None of us know how much profit a publisher makes off a book, be it printed or eBook.  And you can't just ignore storage and distribution, that's a cost, that's going to reduce the 12% or so down to a lower level.  And no one knows how much the storage and distribution costs are.  While servers and storage may be cheap, labor, in the form of IT to keep things up and running, monitor the systems, perform necessary upgrades, etc generally isn't all that cheap.  Labor to print the books will most likely be cheaper, so there's no way to determine how much of the lack of printing and storage costs are offset by other costs.  It's all assumptions on all our parts, unless we work in the publishing industry and are involved in the process.  

 

 

Distinguished Bibliophile
patgolfneb
Posts: 1,759
Registered: ‎09-10-2011

Re: A little disappointed in some prices

When does profit become greed? When a few at the top get rich and average employees make less and less.

 

The cost issue comparison by those claiming a modest advantage restricts itself to a newly published book.

 

The cost advantage of e books grows the longer a book is offered. These sales allow original editing, royalty advances etc to be amortized over a longer period. Risk is lower, no minimum print runs and unsold books. Marginal costs for additional sales beyond authors royalties and retailers share are nominal.  This means that although publishers are squeezed by the need to support multiple distribution channels over time there are substantial cost savings as a higher share of books are sold as e books Of course the competition for dollars from used paper books is also reduced.

Bottom line ebooks can be sold for longer without large up front costs for printing shipping, in smaller numbers for a much longer time profitably, this advantage grows as a larger percentage of books sold are e books.
Inspired Bibliophile
deesy58
Posts: 2,486
Registered: ‎01-22-2012
0 Kudos

Re: A little disappointed in some prices


bklvr896 wrote:

deesy58 wrote:

bklvr896 wrote:

vizeroth wrote:
Personally, I see e-books as the same business market, without the insanely high costs of printing. In other words, if they're selling e-books at or near the price of a printed book, the profit margins are extremely high.

Additionally, as is the case with nearly all digital vs. physical publishing models, the factors that normally drive prices down in physical models just aren't there in digital models. More often than not I end up buying a physical copy of a book because it goes on sale or ends up in a used book store before the ebook becomes reasonably priced. This is especially true with the publishers that can't seem to coordinate a drop in ebook price when the paperback is released.

The printing costs have been discussed a lot here, and everything published, newspaper articles, etc, put the printing costs at about 12% of the total cost of the book.  Factor in that there are costs associated with creating and distributing the ebook, it doesn't appear that the cost of printing is that significant to make the profit margins "extremely high".  Honestly, in most areas, the material costs (in this case the paper, ink, etc) are not the significant cost in producing an item.  It's the labor and overhead, which includes the editors, account executives, marketing costs, etc, that make up the bulk of the costs.  A simplistic example is home improvement projects, I can buy a toilet for $100, but it's going to cost me about $250 to have someone install that toilet.

 

Most owners of ereaders that I know have pretty much quit buying printed books, as have I, and they don't seem to be put off by the price of the books.  At least some of the people who post here tend to be more aware of prices, but, represent an extremely small percentage of all users.  If users were that upset about the prices, then ebooks wouldn't be selling at the rates they are or have been.

 

 


If we accept your assumptions about the 12% cost of printing, and just ignore the costs of distribution and storage, where does that money go if not to the bottom-line profits of the publisher?  Is it unreasonable for consumers to expect to share in the benefits of new technologies?  Why shouldn't the cost savings (or at least some of the cost savings) associated with the transition from paper and ink books to e-books be passed along to consumers? 

 

Oh, right ... corporate greed!  :smileysad:


Why is making a profit always considered corporate greed?  None of us know how much profit a publisher makes off a book, be it printed or eBook.  And you can't just ignore storage and distribution, that's a cost, that's going to reduce the 12% or so down to a lower level.  And no one knows how much the storage and distribution costs are.  While servers and storage may be cheap, labor, in the form of IT to keep things up and running, monitor the systems, perform necessary upgrades, etc generally isn't all that cheap.  Labor to print the books will most likely be cheaper, so there's no way to determine how much of the lack of printing and storage costs are offset by other costs.  It's all assumptions on all our parts, unless we work in the publishing industry and are involved in the process.  

 

 


Umm ... actually, no.  The cost of storage and distribution, when added to the already assumed 12% cost of printing and materials would raise the cost to a higher level, not a lower one.  As far as profits are concerned, reasonable levels of profits have been available to American businesses since the founding of our Republic.  It has only been in the past thirty years or so that no amount of profit is ever considered adequate by US corporations.  That's nothing more than simple greed.  Do you really believe that the publishing industry is entitled to higher ROS levels today than they were in the past?  If so, why are they entitled to such higher rates of return? 

 

We don't need to work in the publishing industry to be able to use our common sense to determine that an intangible product like an e-book MUST cost less to produce and distribute than physical books. 

Inspired Wordsmith
beeyebickiebuy
Posts: 514
Registered: ‎03-21-2011

Re: A little disappointed in some prices


patgolfneb wrote:

When does profit become greed? When a few at the top get rich and average employees make less and less.

 

...


A good example of that is what is going to happen in Michigan now that its government has made it a right to work state.

Frequent Contributor
Irishelf
Posts: 242
Registered: ‎07-20-2011

Re: A little disappointed in some prices

The main problem with most businesses is the big difference between what people at the the top  (CEOs, Admin., etc) make and the rest of the employees make.  Plus, when regular employees mess up, they are punished in some way (demoted, fired, docked pay,etc.) but when CEOs mess up, not only are they not punished, but often still get bonuses which they should not be entitled to!

Correspondent
thelios
Posts: 103
Registered: ‎06-30-2010

Re: A little disappointed in some prices

Why do you keep paying the exorbitant prices? They will sell it all day that way. Hit them in the wallet.
You live and you learn, some people just live!
Bibliophile
5ivedom
Posts: 3,544
Registered: ‎12-03-2011

Re: A little disappointed in some prices

Yes, this is the key thing.

 

WE have some percentage of readers who either can't wait or don't care. That makes it viable for Publishers to keep charging prices that are higher than what would be a reasonable win-win situation/solution.

 

All we need is for most readers to say - If it's priced unfairly I'll wait till it's fine.

 

You can't blame publsihers for taking advantag eof people's lack of patience. They are a business after all and convenience and immediate availability is, sort of, a product.

Distinguished Bibliophile
keriflur
Posts: 6,555
Registered: ‎01-05-2010

Re: A little disappointed in some prices


5ivedom wrote:

Yes, this is the key thing.

 

WE have some percentage of readers who either can't wait or don't care. That makes it viable for Publishers to keep charging prices that are higher than what would be a reasonable win-win situation/solution.

 

All we need is for most readers to say - If it's priced unfairly I'll wait till it's fine.

 

You can't blame publsihers for taking advantag eof people's lack of patience. They are a business after all and convenience and immediate availability is, sort of, a product.


The thing, though, is that it appears that most people don't think the prices are unfair.

Reader 4
boomer1949
Posts: 18
Registered: ‎06-29-2012

Re: A little disappointed in some prices

There are MANY great FREE books available from BN for your Nook Color! I have found several authors I never heard of and now LOVE!!! Not ALL great books are best sellers! Search for free downloads for Nook Color or whatever you have! There are literally thousands of free titles! Good hunting!!! :smileyhappy:)) Also your public library is a GREAT place for EBOOKS! I read all the Stackhouse books for FREE!!!