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MacMcK1957
Posts: 1,412
Registered: ‎07-25-2011
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Re: Amazon bans publishing of public domain content

[ Edited ]

I'm curious.  I can't find a copy of The Worm Ourobouros at Gutenberg.org.  I was looking for it not long ago.  Still can't find it there.  Where did you download it from?

 

I ended up downloading a 99 cent copy from B&N, but it's from Smashwords, not Gutenberg.

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cale
Posts: 60
Registered: ‎05-02-2012

Re: Amazon bans publishing of public domain content

[ Edited ]

http://gutenberg.net.au/plusfifty-a-m.html#letterE

 

That's Eddison by the way--I said Eddington before.

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MacMcK1957
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Re: Amazon bans publishing of public domain content

[ Edited ]
Aha. You're pulling from Gutenberg Australia, which seems to be an independent project. I thought your description didn't fit the site I know, because you described some books as just being poorly done scans, not even rendered to text files at all, which I have never encountered. Most of the books on the Australian site don't seem to even be available in EPUB versions. Try www.gutenberg.org and see if the books you mentioned may be better edited, although as I said they have no copy of Ourobouros.
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kamas716
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Re: Amazon bans publishing of public domain content

Don't forget that using sites outside the US (like Gutenberg Australia) may not necessarily give you a legal copy as they are following the copyright laws of those other countries.

www.goodreads.com/kamas716
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MacMcK1957
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Re: Amazon bans publishing of public domain content

I hadn't thought of that, but I find stuff on the Australian site that is clearly still under US copyright But it does seem to be of generally poor quality.
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cale
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Re: Amazon bans publishing of public domain content

[ Edited ]

"You're pulling from Gutenberg Australia"

 

ONE book. What's that got to do with ALL the others? Listen kiddo, I've been downloading and repairing errors in Gutenberg's lousy files for nearly 10-years and have yet to find a perfect one, or even a close to perfect one. They simply do not proofread the files that are uploaded, and never have. Nor do they claim to. If you would proof the downloaded text against hard copy, you'd see more of the common errors. If two paragraphs have been pushed together to form one, how would you even know unless you had the hard copy to look at? You assume things like italics and dashes are correct when they may not be (and often are not).

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cale
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Re: Amazon bans publishing of public domain content

"I hadn't thought of that, but I find stuff on the Australian site that is clearly still under US copyright But it does seem to be of generally poor quality."

 

Australians are no different whatsoever in how they scan and upload. The Astralian site is of the exact same quality as the American site, and that's not good.

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Ya_Ya
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Re: Amazon bans publishing of public domain content

[ Edited ]

cale wrote:

Listen kiddo, I've been downloading and repairing errors in Gutenberg's lousy files for nearly 10-years and have yet to find a perfect one, or even a close to perfect one. They simply do not proofread the files that are uploaded, and never have. Nor do they claim to. 


Wow.  Condescending much?

 

And inaccurate:  http://www.gutenberg.org/

 

From the welcome page:  "Project Gutenberg offers over 39,000 free ebooks: choose among free epub books, free kindle books, download them or read them online.

We carry high quality ebooks: All our ebooks were previously published by bona fide publishers. We digitized and diligently proofread them with the help of thousands of volunteers."

 

These books are absolutely proofread - undoubtedly not to the same standard we hold professional publishing houses, but they're not (in general) of the same poor quality as the Google Book scans, either.

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MacMcK1957
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Re: Amazon bans publishing of public domain content

I've downloaded a few dozen classics from Gutenberg over the last few years. While It's certainly possible that some paragraph breaks might have been missing that I wouldn't notice, I have not seen noticeable typos, which I absolutely have seen on other sources (Google books classics are awful). I have never seen a scanned, unconverted page image.
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javabird
Posts: 435
Registered: ‎03-13-2010

Re: Amazon bans publishing of public domain content

As I said, I've participated in helping to proofread and edit books for Gutenberg. I'm not sure how the project in Australia works, but for the U.S., they do go through quite a few rounds of proofreading and editing. Here's a chart that shows their process:

 

http://www.pgdp.net/c/faq/DPflow.php

 

Beginning editors cannot advance to  Level 2 until they've proven their ability by doing a certain number of pages and passing a quiz. I'm sure some mistakes can slip through, but I've also seen quite a few typos and errors in professional books too (even DTB's).

 

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cale
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Re: Amazon bans publishing of public domain content

[ Edited ]

Wow.  Condescending much?

 

And inaccurate:  http://www.gutenberg.org/

 

From the welcome page:  "Project Gutenberg offers over 39,000 free ebooks: choose among free epub books, free kindle books, download them or read them online.

We carry high quality ebooks: All our ebooks were previously published by bona fide publishers. We digitized and diligently proofread them with the help of thousands of volunteers."


Not condescending at all Mr. Multiple losername boy. And you've just proven my point. Uploads to Gutenberg are NOT profread by anyone at Gutenberg. They are SUPPOSED to be proofread by the people who upload them--you know--those "thousands of volunteers," half of whom are junior high kids who are about as likely to proofread something (let alone correctly) as they are to clean up their rooms without being told.

 

I reiterate, you will not find more than 3 in 100 epubs from Gutenberg that can pass Epub Check. Nor will the HTML files within them pass the W3C Validator very often. And there are ALWAYS grammatical errors in them 100% of the time. I've yet to see an exception, and neither have you. If so, show it to me. I really want to see that file.

 

And again I'll say that you've probably never in your life checked a book file from Gutenberg against a print version. If you had, you wouldn't be saying such absurd things.

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cale
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Re: Amazon bans publishing of public domain content

[ Edited ]

for the U.S., they do go through quite a few rounds of proofreading and editing. Here's a chart that shows their process:

 

http://www.pgdp.net/c/faq/DPflow.php


Nonsense; this is not a Gutenberg website. This is a completely different company that claims to have scanned, proofread, and uploaded nearly half the books at the Gutenberg USA site. If they're making the effort to help out Gutenberg, that's great. If they're doing it wrong--not so great. They say:

 

"The Project Managers pick whatever books we can find. Due to US copyright laws, we are severely limited in the books we are allowed to work with. We go to Used & Rare bookshops and scour the Internet websites & auctions. We check out rare books from libraries and scan them. We obtain page images from other archive sites. We try to find books that we think people would enjoy reading and that we can find at an acceptable price."

 

Gee, wouldn't it be nice to actually bother finding the most correct edition of the book rather than "whatever books we can find." Do you know how many errors are fixed in subsequent editions of print books? Plenty. For that matter, many old books have been sliced and diced over the years by editors for various reasons, often religious ones, to the point of it being a painstaking process of putting together a correct edition today. A great example (among hundreds I could give) is James Hogg's The Private Memoirs and Confessions of a Justified Sinner. Only the original 1824 Longman's 1st edition has the text in it's entirety until Oxford Press came out with one in 1981. That 1st edition generally goes for better than a thousand bucks if you're lucky enough to find one. And even that edition had at least seven typesetting errors that I'm aware of (and considering Hogg's mixture of Scotch and English spellings, only a scholar would catch). Only a few copies were sold. The next edition was in 1937 and had 115 pages omitted and the text was heavily redacted. For the next hundred years or more, nearly every subsequent edition relied on the 1937 edition making them also incorrect. One of them published by L Shiells and Co. came out with an 1895 edition which claimed to follow the original edition, but scholar John Carey found it had errors or omissions on all but three of its 266 pages. Campion Reprints in 1924, and later Cresset Press in 1947, both came out with reprints that followed the 1824 1st edition, but they both changed some of Hogg's deliberate (and often playful) spellings and some of the punctuation. Thus, it wasn't until 1981 that a decent reprint of the 1st edition came out (even fixing the seven errors in the original.) But while the original text in not under copyright, Oxford Press' version is, so you cannot use it legally to copy from for Gutenberg. Not that any of the amateurs scanning texts willy-nilly for Gutenberg would know, or care about, true scholarly work anyway. And this is exactly why there will ALWAYS be a market for fine editions of reprints by real publishers.

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javabird
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Re: Amazon bans publishing of public domain content


cale wrote:

for the U.S., they do go through quite a few rounds of proofreading and editing. Here's a chart that shows their process:

 

http://www.pgdp.net/c/faq/DPflow.php


Nonsense; this is not a Gutenberg website. This is a completely different company that claims to have scanned, proofread, and uploaded nearly half the books at the Gutenberg USA site. If they're making the effort to help out Gutenberg, that's great. If they're doing it wrong--not so great. They say

 


Just want to clear up a possible misunderstanding. Distributed Proofreaders IS the group that proofreads books for the Gutenberg project. It is not a different group. See this:

http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Gutenberg:Volunteering_for_Project_Gutenberg

 

 

 

 

 

 

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cale
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Re: Amazon bans publishing of public domain content

They are NOT a Gutenberg owned site, nor were they hired by Gutenberg. Gutenberg merely acknowledges their contributtions and suggest that you help them, and that's great. I have no problem with that at all. But anyone can still upload books to Gutenberg, and Gutenberg themselves do not proofread them except to browse the files to make sure they conform with their styling guidelines (placing italicised words in upper case for example with .txt editions). They do not check for spelling, grammar, or HTML and other formatting errors, let alone check the actual words against a known proper print edition.

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Ya_Ya
Posts: 3,281
Registered: ‎09-29-2010

Re: Amazon bans publishing of public domain content

[ Edited ]

cale wrote:

Not condescending at all Mr. Multiple losername boy...


The condescending part was you calling someone else "kiddo."  Behavior you've just repeated.

 

(Hint:  I'm not a boy, I'm a grown woman, and don't enjoy being accused of being a troll by someone who is acting like one.)

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MacMcK1957
Posts: 1,412
Registered: ‎07-25-2011

Re: Amazon bans publishing of public domain content

Ya_Ya, DNF. Clearly this is the undisputed expert on all things Gutenberg, despite being unaware that Gutenberg.org and Gutenberg Australia are totally unrelated organizations. We must accept the truth that no Gutenberg book has ever, at any time in history, been proofread or corrected, and all are an unreadable mass of errors from the first page to the last. The tens of thousands of people who download from Gutenberg every day just are incapable of discerning how horrible the content is.
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keriflur
Posts: 4,389
Registered: ‎01-05-2010

Re: Amazon bans publishing of public domain content

[ Edited ]

@cale

 

Please provide your entire educational background and work history.  We are particularly interested to hear if you are or have ever been a CEO.

 

For future reference, name calling is not allowed in this forum and is reason for eviction.  So, I recommend you stay away from that type of behaviour if you'd like to continue to correct all the people who are "wrong" on the internet.

Recently Finished: The Fifth Wave by Rick Yancey ← SO GOOD!
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javabird
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Re: Amazon bans publishing of public domain content


cale wrote:

They are NOT a Gutenberg owned site, nor were they hired by Gutenberg. Gutenberg merely acknowledges their contributtions and suggest that you help them, and that's great. I have no problem with that at all. But anyone can still upload books to Gutenberg, and Gutenberg themselves do not proofread them except to browse the files to make sure they conform with their styling guidelines (placing italicised words in upper case for example with .txt editions). They do not check for spelling, grammar, or HTML and other formatting errors, let alone check the actual words against a known proper print edition.


If there is a way for anyone to upload a book to the site for release to the public without going through all the proofreading, etc., I wasn't aware of it. Would you care to share the link?