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keriflur
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Re: B&N not willing to price match Amazon?

[ Edited ]

 

AshleyDel wrote:

It’s worth noting that there are some big sites whose books definitely do not work on Kindle – Shortcovers, Sony, Barnes & Noble. This is due to their restrictions – not anything done by Amazon.

 

 

I know this thread has digressed into the pre-order gibberish and all, but I would like to take us back, for a minute, to the insane statement above.  The reason these books do not work on the kindle is not because these stores restrict their books from kindle use.  It's because the kindle does not read epub files (the most commonly used format, quickly becoming industry standard).  Amazon has chosen to have their reader only display three formats - two that they own, .amz and .mobi, and PDFs, which they only added recently and only then because they knew if they didn't they'd lose market share.  So, yes, Amazon IS at fault for the kindle not reading books from these stores.

 

Now, back to your regularly scheduled programming:

 

I, personally, will never again pre-order an ebook.  Usually the price drops on or just after the release date, so why waste my money?  Yes, with the agency model changes there were some good deals, but that's not the norm and it's not likely to happen again in the near future (I think those contracts were for 3 years?).

 

Saneless - I know you're thrilled with your $17 ebook purchase, and I don't mean to rain on your parade, but $17?  Seriously?

Doug_Pardee
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Re: B&N not willing to price match Amazon?

[ Edited ]
keriflur wrote:

The reason these books do not work on the kindle is not because these stores restrict their books from kindle use.  It's because the kindle does not read epub files (the most commonly used format, quickly becoming industry standard).

More importantly, it's because the Kindle doesn't handle DRM (copy protection) other than Amazon's. If the problem was just EPUB, you could convert the EPUB to MOBI with Calibre—although I'm not much pleased with the quality of conversions that Calibre makes.

 

Most e-bookstores including Kobo (formerly Shortcovers) and Sony provide EPUB e-books protected with Adobe DRM, as does OverDrive when you borrow e-books from public libraries. Most current e-readers except the Kindle can handle EPUB e-books protected with Adobe DRM. The Kindle handles neither EPUB nor Adobe DRM.

 

E-books from Barnes & Noble use eReader DRM. The nook can handle eReader DRM, and most future e-readers probably will be able to handle EPUB e-books protected with eReader DRM, because eReader DRM is included in version 9.1 of Adobe Reader Mobile (Adobe calls it 'social DRM'). If older e-readers are updated with a current version of Adobe Reader Mobile, they also would be able to handle EPUB e-books protected with eReader DRM.

 

Side note: at the moment, some e-books from B&N are EPUB with eReader DRM, and some are PML PDB with eReader DRM, called 'Secure eReader' format by Fictionwise. B&N is moving away from Secure eReader to EPUB with eReader DRM. Adobe Reader Mobile 9.1 can handle EPUB with eReader DRM, but not Secure eReader format.

 

Apple is using EPUB e-books protected with its own FairPlay DRM for iBookstore, but since you can't even get to iBookstore without an iPad and the iBooks app, the rest of us don't need to fret about that.

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AshleyDel
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Re: B&N not willing to price match Amazon?

[ Edited ]

 

keriflur wrote:

 

AshleyDel wrote:

It’s worth noting that there are some big sites whose books definitely do not work on Kindle – Shortcovers, Sony, Barnes & Noble. This is due to their restrictions – not anything done by Amazon.

 

 

I know this thread has digressed into the pre-order gibberish and all, but I would like to take us back, for a minute, to the insane statement above.  The reason these books do not work on the kindle is not because these stores restrict their books from kindle use.  It's because the kindle does not read epub files (the most commonly used format, quickly becoming industry standard).  Amazon has chosen to have their reader only display three formats - two that they own, .amz and .mobi, and PDFs, which they only added recently and only then because they knew if they didn't they'd lose market share.  So, yes, Amazon IS at fault for the kindle not reading books from these stores.

 

 

 

I take your point keriflur...but my point was simply that I have been able to get books for the Kindle from other sites like Fictionwise, Baen etc. The general hype by B&N has been that you are just restricted to Amazon. And yes the Nook is much more flexible with the most widely used ebook format. I have never had an argument there at all...which is originally why I bought the Nook, or one of the main reasons. However what annoys me is this: If I want to find a Kindle book I like at an acceptable price...it is much easier to find on Amazon and download it wirelessly-they have close to 400,000 books as oppose to the main B&N site having less than half this(excluding Google books which can be read on the Kindle too). With the Nook I can find the same book but more often by having to visit either eReader.com, Fictionwise, Books on Board etc. Even then I have to download via USB. It just is a lot more hassle. I would much rather visit one site pay 9.99 for an instant download from Amazon on the Kindle itself  than search several sites for a USB download for the Nook even if it was 6.99.

 

...and that is the another annoying thing..both Fictionwise and eReader.com, despite being owned by B&N have different pricing/rebate structures. This may change in the future, but my gripe is that to date, I find it a lot more hassle to order all the books I want from B&N than Amazon. But the Nook has the best screen and reading experience for me, so I tend to read it more than the Kindle. I wonder when B&N will just merge all the stores into one...provide rebates for frequent buyers...discounts...sales etc and the best features from all the sites rolled into one....?

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keriflur
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Re: B&N not willing to price match Amazon?

So... if you want to buy all your books in one place, and that place is amazon, but you want to read all your books on the nook, and that's really what you;re looking for, then... buy your kindle book and strip the DRM and convert it in Calibre so you can read it on your nook.  LOL - there's away to do anything!

 

If you're just unsatisfied that neither device/store has filled your every want and desire, then I think you're looking for this thread.

 

Personally I'm more than happy to comparison shop.

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FrogAlum
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Re: B&N not willing to price match Amazon?

 

keriflur wrote:

So... if you want to buy all your books in one place, and that place is amazon, but you want to read all your books on the nook, and that's really what you;re looking for, then... buy your kindle book and strip the DRM and convert it in Calibre so you can read it on your nook.  LOL - there's away to do anything!

 

If you're just unsatisfied that neither device/store has filled your every want and desire, then I think you're looking for this thread.

 

Personally I'm more than happy to comparison shop.

 

 

LOL  Perfect thread for them...

 

I know but comparison shopping is so difficult!  Between AddAll and Inkmesh and then checking kobo it must take me 30 seconds to find my book and where I want to purchase it.  I'll never get that 30 seconds back you know!

 

Oh wait, I forgot I'm a bookstore slut, go ahead move along all's well.

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bklvr896
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Re: B&N not willing to price match Amazon?

 

..and that is the another annoying thing..both Fictionwise and eReader.com, despite being owned by B&N have different pricing/rebate structures. \

 

That's kind of like being annoyed that Sam's Club, despite being owned by WalMart, has different items and prices things differently.  Companies have subsidiaries and divisions that, while part of the same overall Corporation function very differently.

 

 

 

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icebike
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Re: B&N not willing to price match Amazon?

 

bklvr896 wrote:

 

That's kind of like being annoyed that Sam's Club, despite being owned by WalMart, has different items and prices things differently.  Companies have subsidiaries and divisions that, while part of the same overall Corporation function very differently.

 

 

 

Which is precisely why there are two stores instead of one.

 

GM bought Chevy, Pontiac, Buick, and made them so generic the only difference

was the name screwed onto the side.  Look where it got them.

 

I LIKE the fact that Kroger's is different than Fred Meyer and QFC and Ralphs, even if they are all owned by the same company.  

 

There is no reason eReader.com and Fictionwise have to look exactly like B&N,

 

Still it might be worth their while to use the "Endless Bookshelf" feature of these B&N to service the other e-stores so that nook downloading would be simpler.    The fact that the nook content delivery network is not the same as the shopping network might mean that they will do precisely that in the future.

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AshleyDel
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Re: B&N not willing to price match Amazon?

 

icebike wrote:

 

bklvr896 wrote:

 

That's kind of like being annoyed that Sam's Club, despite being owned by WalMart, has different items and prices things differently.  Companies have subsidiaries and divisions that, while part of the same overall Corporation function very differently.

 

 

 

Which is precisely why there are two stores instead of one.

 

GM bought Chevy, Pontiac, Buick, and made them so generic the only difference

was the name screwed onto the side.  Look where it got them.

 

I LIKE the fact that Kroger's is different than Fred Meyer and QFC and Ralphs, even if they are all owned by the same company.  

 

There is no reason eReader.com and Fictionwise have to look exactly like B&N,

 

Still it might be worth their while to use the "Endless Bookshelf" feature of these B&N to service the other e-stores so that nook downloading would be simpler.    The fact that the nook content delivery network is not the same as the shopping network might mean that they will do precisely that in the future.

 

I definitely agree with you on the delivery method and merits of the individual stores..But Chevy, Pontiac etc were supposed to be different models of product entirely... yes that got screwed up...as you rightly say. But Fictionwise, B&N and reader are selling the same identical products in the first place-be  it at different prices and rebate structures.

 

I find that I go to 3 stores and check out the best deal....or at which store certain books are available. If B&N own all three, then at least let each store have the same books listed. I do like the rebate model and would love to use that a lot of the time, especially when I know that I will be buying multiple books. But I would at least like to have the option to do that at each store. If they own all 3, then I would think that each store would have access to the same books...or maybe they will in the future. Who knows with things changing so much

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ratdog
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Re: B&N not willing to price match Amazon?

If you have the luxury of owning both ereaders why do you care? You can buy from Amazon and Barnes and Noble and buy your books at the lowest price.

 

Or are you acting as a crusader for those of us who had to choose between e-readers?

 

 

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AshleyDel
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Re: B&N not willing to price match Amazon?

[ Edited ]

 

ratdog wrote:

If you have the luxury of owning both ereaders why do you care? You can buy from Amazon and Barnes and Noble and buy your books at the lowest price.

 

Or are you acting as a crusader for those of us who had to choose between e-readers?

 

 

 

i read pretty much about 70% mainly on the Nook since it is a much better reading experience for me,but yes, if price is an issue I do switch. Most cannot however-I bought the Kindle and loved it. Then when I tried the Nook I thought wow-I will sell the Kindle and just have a Nook. Due to pricing and availability issues...I kept the Kindle too. Not my ideal really.

 

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ABthree
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Re: B&N not willing to price match Amazon?

@FrogAlum

 

For the record, B&N charges pre-orders IMMEDIATELY, not on the release date.  One more reason not to pre-order eBooks from B&N.

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+in your kindness, make the wicked become good.+
-- St. Basil the Great+
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FrogAlum
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Re: B&N not willing to price match Amazon?

 

ABthree wrote:

@FrogAlum

 

For the record, B&N charges pre-orders IMMEDIATELY, not on the release date.  One more reason not to pre-order eBooks from B&N.

 

 

Oh yeah, I know that about B&N, really just about anyone other than Amazon does that.  I always pre-ordered all my HC and still do on my DVD/Blu Ray purchases, it just doesn't work the same with eBooks.  It doesn't make sense, but then what about eBooks has lately????

 

The only exception I made was purchases (pre-ordered) just prior to 4/1.

 

I just picked up Wicked for my daughter @ Sony Reader where it was cheaper than kobo, the higher price @ kobo was due to the fact they automatically add 10.25% tax to the purchase!  I don't know about you but that isn't my sales tax rate.  It looks like they took the highest possible rate and used that for everyone.  Sony books also have tax added but at a lesser rate, nothing makes sense in this digital book world anymore.

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mykoffee
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Re: B&N not willing to price match Amazon?

[ Edited ]
ABthree wrote:

@FrogAlum

 

For the record, B&N charges pre-orders IMMEDIATELY, not on the release date.  One more reason not to pre-order eBooks from B&N.

 

They sure do.  I  pre-ordered a Random House ebook because  I didn't think I"d see lower than $5.19 for it,  and they charged my card immediately.

 

ETA:  I originally stated I ordered a paperback, it was an ebook that would be a paperback version in print.

 

Linda

 

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CyberRon
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Re: B&N not willing to price match Amazon?

Well it's time for B&N to wake up and smell the roses. If they want to compete in this marketplace, they need to study their competition. It's competition that makes for a strong and dynamic market.

Personally I would love for B&N to succeed and blow Amazon out of the water by being competitive. Here is an example and futher comments:

 

B&N's entry and pricing model:

Hood

By Stephen R. Lawhead

(first book in trilogy)

Not available in ebook format

 

Scarlet
by Stephen R. Lawhead

List price: $15.99
eBook Price: $11.42

 

Tuck
by Stephen R. Lawhead

List price: $26.99
eBook Price: $19.27

  

Amazon's pricing model: (all available)

Hood (Kindle Edition)
by Stephen R. Lawhead (Author)
Digital List Price: $24.99  What's this?  
Print List Price: $7.99
Kindle Price: $7.19 

 

Scarlet (The King Raven Trilogy, Book 2) (Kindle Edition)
by Stephen R. Lawhead (Author)
Digital List Price: $15.99  What's this?  
Print List Price: $15.99
Kindle Price: $9.99 

 

Tuck (King Raven) (Kindle Edition)
by Stephen R. Lawhead (Author)
Digital List Price: $26.99  What's this?  
Print List Price: $15.99
Kindle Price: $9.78 

 

 

There is a huge disperity in this comparison. If B&N wants to compete in this market, they need to make major strides in being more competitive or they will be quickly outpaced and become a non-player in the market. I sincerely hope this doesn't happen, but B&N controls its own destiny.

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ABthree
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Re: B&N not willing to price match Amazon?

 

FrogAlum wrote:

  the higher price @ kobo was due to the fact they automatically add 10.25% tax to the purchase!  I don't know about you but that isn't my sales tax rate.  It looks like they took the highest possible rate and used that for everyone. 

 

 

@FrogAlum

 

LOL  That IS the "highest possible rate" -- the one we're lucky enough to have in Cook County, Illinois.  Welcome to Chicago!  Sorry you don't get any of the benefits of living here, just the excess cost.  Nice little profit kick for Kobo, hmmmm?

+LORD, preserve the good in their goodness, and+
+in your kindness, make the wicked become good.+
-- St. Basil the Great+
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AshleyDel
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Re: B&N not willing to price match Amazon?

 

CyberRon wrote:

Well it's time for B&N to wake up and smell the roses. If they want to compete in this marketplace, they need to study their competition. It's competition that makes for a strong and dynamic market.

Personally I would love for B&N to succeed and blow Amazon out of the water by being competitive. Here is an example and futher comments:

 

B&N's entry and pricing model:

Hood

By Stephen R. Lawhead

(first book in trilogy)

Not available in ebook format

 

S

  

Amazon's pricing model: (all available)

Hood (Kindle Edition)
by Stephen R. Lawhead (Author)
Digital List Price: $24.99  What's this?  
Print List Price: $7.99
Kindle Price: $7.19 

 

Scarlet (The King Raven Trilogy, Book 2) (Kindle Edition)
by Stephen R. Lawhead (Author)
Digital List Price: $15.99  What's this?  
Print List Price: $15.99
Kindle Price: $9.99 

 

Tuck (King Raven) (Kindle Edition)
by Stephen R. Lawhead (Author)
Digital List Price: $26.99  What's this?  
Print List Price: $15.99
Kindle Price: $9.78 

 

 

There is a huge disperity in this comparison. If B&N wants to compete in this market, they need to make major strides in being more competitive or they will be quickly outpaced and become a non-player in the market. I sincerely hope this doesn't happen, but B&N controls its own destiny.

 

I have switched entirely to electronic fiction reading-to save on space. Having to read the first paperback in a series and the other 2 electronically means owning a Kindle and Nook. Realistically I do not expect the pricing to go down however. As other posts/threads have mentioned-the Agency Model and pricing(mainly due to Apple and iPad) means that pricing will be 12.99-1499 for most books, be it paper or HC. Amazon are already adjusting their pricing but not as fast as B&N -though eventually both stores will be similar. I am hoping that much older books will be not affeceted or not as much. Amazon has far more of those of course. Ultimately there needs to be competition, otherwise the reader will lose out. With hard copy books, I used to look for the most coupons and visit either Borders or Barnes. Borders had he best deals for me normally and I loved the store itself. Now that I'm electronic...I find that I love the Amazon store but much prefer the Nook!!! Go figure. Maybe Amazon will make their eBooks available in ePub format, to use on he Nook.....they do no make so much on the Kindle ...as compared to the vast profit from book sales.

 

 

 

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deemure
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Re: B&N not willing to price match Amazon?

keriflur wrote:

 

 

 

I know this thread has digressed into the pre-order gibberish and all, but I would like to take us back, for a minute, to the insane statement above.  The reason these books do not work on the kindle is not because these stores restrict their books from kindle use.  It's because the kindle does not read epub files (the most commonly used format, quickly becoming industry standard).  Amazon has chosen to have their reader only display three formats - two that they own, .amz and .mobi, and PDFs, which they only added recently and only then because they knew if they didn't they'd lose market share.  So, yes, Amazon IS at fault for the kindle not reading books from these stores.

 

Precisely, and while the OP notes that B&N books don't work on kindle, Amazon books don't work on nook.  I contacted Amazon and asked them to price match and convert the ebook to a format that my nook could read and they told me to take a flying leap.  I consider their attitude irrational and will post the info on the kindle boards and see how nicely I am treated there.(Sarcasm).

 

And there are many more ebooks available all over the place for nook, such as oh, Library books.

 

Also, another wonderful thing to note is now that Audible books are owned by Amazon, they've changed the formats there, too.  You used to be able to get mp3s and now the books are all Amazon's proprietary format.

 

Regarding the original post.  Guess what-you won't have to worry so much about this anymore.  Agency pricing is here and isn't it fabulous.  Amazon will not be able to undercut pricing on ebooks as they have been doing (their intent since it's been repeatedly said they lose money on ebooks has been to sell kindles).

 

And, last I looked there was no such policy stated anywhere by B&N that they did price matching.  Where on earth would the OP get the idea that they would?

 

As far as pre-ordering anything.  This is a convenience for the customer as well as for a seller in trying to get an idea of how many (in the case of a device) they will sell.  For the customer it is the knowledge that they will get that item when they want it.  Perhaps for hard goods it would be just more fun to wait in line first come first serve.  For ebooks, there's no real reason to pre-order since they won't run out of the book, but since my memory is often fuzzy at best, I might pre-order an ebook so that I remember I wanted it.  There are so many books out there and someone may talk about a new one coming out that sounds good and I don't want to forget it. 

 

And back to the pricing situation.  I think Amazon is now catching up because I see many of their new releases and NYTimes bestsellers are exactly the same price as B&N's.

"I still believe in spite of everything that people are good at heart." Anne Frank.
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deemure
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Re: B&N not willing to price match Amazon?

 

AshleyDel wrote:

 

...and that is the another annoying thing..both Fictionwise and eReader.com, despite being owned by B&N have different pricing/rebate structures. This may change in the future, but my gripe is that to date, I find it a lot more hassle to order all the books I want from B&N than Amazon. But the Nook has the best screen and reading experience for me, so I tend to read it more than the Kindle. I wonder when B&N will just merge all the stores into one...provide rebates for frequent buyers...discounts...sales etc and the best features from all the sites rolled into one....?

 

 

The thing about this is that B&N bought FW and ereader.com not that long ago in the scheme of things.  The way they have in the past marketed their ebooks is different from the way B&N does on its own site.  They also offer these ebooks in many other formats than those on the B&N site.

 

They had a certain pricing structure in place which encouraged people to become repeat buyers and even (now defunct) members.  They used their rebate policy to overcome some initially higher prices on some ebooks as well as to make up for the fact that ebooks had to be bought and downloaded on a computer. 

 

I don't see why they'd have to merge all the stores into one and create the same structure at the one big store.  There's no real incentive there to do so, no real need either.  I think that as long as they made it possible to wirelessly order and download from FW and ereader they could leave as is.  As has been said before many other companies have subsidiaries and only  they can say what works for them and they often allow for different "deals" at these subsidiaries.  It can also be assumed that FW and ereader as separate companies probably have separate contracts or agreements with publishers than does B&N itself.

 

I don't necessarily think it is such a hassle to buy books for the nook or from B&N, but it is obvious that this is newer territory for B&N than Amazon. 

"I still believe in spite of everything that people are good at heart." Anne Frank.
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JoanieGranola
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Re: B&N not willing to price match Amazon?

There was a time when amazon.com had a monopoly on ebook sales because the Kindle was the only real contender in the field. That's why it felt so comfortable pricing it's ebooks so low - because Kindle customers couldn't get books elsewhere, and it knew that they would make money no matter how low the prices were.

 

Now that there are other contenders on the market - nook, ipad (gasp) and Sony (which has been around for a while) - ebook pricing is running amok because publishers want to see just how much the consumers will pay for ebooks. Thanks to Steve Jobs (yes, I said it), prices have gone higher after his announcement that Apple would start selling ebooks at $15.

 

This type of pricing is not new - the prices will be high as long as the market bears it. Once customers stop buying ebooks at a certain price, the price will go lower. The many fluctuations over the past several weeks and months is a test to see what people will actually settle to pay.

 

As for price matching - which was one of the original reasons for the post - the market isn't stable enough yet for anyone to price match ebooks. Especially given that different devices run on different formats. Quite honestly, why should B&N price match a book that amazon sells if the books won't work on a Kindle? Why would you even ask that question, given that the formats are totally different? I get the fact that you have one of each - lucky you. Don't piss and moan because one sells ebooks at a higher price when you can get it cheaper for your other device. That's just plain silly and so ridiculous I have to laugh.

 

As for pre-ordering ebooks, I have only done it once and it was completely by accident. I thought the book was already available because it wasn't clear from the page that it wasn't. I understand your point for preordering - it's so the book will load automatically on the release date and you won't have to worry about forgetting to buy it. Whatever. The prices for ebooks fluctuate so much, you're probably not getting the best price anyway.

 

I agree that it's absolutely frustrating and sometimes I want to pull my hair out, but I also realize that until more people can afford these little toys there's not going to be much of a price drop because the sale of ebooks won't be greater than that of paper books. Poor people will still go to the library and moderate income families will still buy books on sale and in paperback form.

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icebike
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Registered: ‎11-30-2009
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Re: B&N not willing to price match Amazon?

[ Edited ]

 

JoanieGranola wrote:

There was a time when amazon.com had a monopoly on ebook sales because the Kindle was the only real contender in the field. That's why it felt so comfortable pricing it's ebooks so low - because Kindle customers couldn't get books elsewhere, and it knew that they would make money no matter how low the prices were.


 

 

A monopoly, or anything approaching a monopoly has never historically lead to lower prices.  Even with a lock, there is no reason to lower prices by much and hope kindle sales would offset the lower prices. 

Your economics are backward here.....

 

 

 

 

JoanieGranola wrote:

 

Now that there are other contenders on the market - nook, ipad (gasp) and Sony (which has been around for a while) - ebook pricing is running amok because publishers want to see just how much the consumers will pay for ebooks. Thanks to Steve Jobs (yes, I said it), prices have gone higher after his announcement that Apple would start selling ebooks at $15.

 

 

Prices are going up due to Jobs, no question.  But its not because Publishers want  to run the price up now that eReaders are going mainstream.  They have always wanted higher prices, but dared not get together and conspire to do so.

 

Now, after Jobs, and perhaps some winking from the whitehouse, they  have been handed a oligopoly and they CAN run them up, and companies like Amazon and B&N rolled over instead of immediately filing complaints with the FTC.

 

Since the book sellers won't, the consumers will and should complain to the government.

 

There is simply no precedent for and entire industry changing pricing model all at the same time, let alone doing so and using that as an excuse to raise prices.