I'll just say it...I didn't mind the Agency model

[RHWright]

Sorry to interject while everyone does their little happy dances.

But I didn't find I had a problem, as a whole, with the Agency model pricing.

Sure, certain titles went up to or came out at a higher price. For the most part though, there were plenty of books at prices I liked and that I wanted to read. Including free and lower-cost independents. There were plenty of books I wanted that came out a good prices. There were some that were more than I liked. There were very few that I found ridiculously expensive.

In those cases, I voted with my wallet and did not buy them. On the whole, I easily found ways to get as much enjoyment, spend about the same budget, and get about the same number of books as I did before the whole Agency kerfuffle.

On top of that, Amazon's unfair, predatory, low-ball pricing ground to a halt and competitors such as B&N were able to get a foot in the door and help diversify the marketplace with alternatives to the Kindle.

So dance away! Just be aware that you may be dancing on the NOOK's grave. B&N can't lose money on most of the content they sell along with barely breaking even on hardware. Go ahead and celebrate the return of cheap, cheap, cheap books! I hope you're still dancing when the only ereader you can buy is a Kindle and the only content you can get is from Amazon. And suddenly Amazon decides it can't keep absorbing those losses and jacks prices back up to where they are now.

I know this is a heterodox position. So pile on.

I just wanted to put out my 2 cents and say that in my particualr corner of the world the Agency model wasn't so bad.

[Nevermore1]

I don't think the Agency Model is that bad either.  Yes, books are over $9.99 but the publishers and stores need to make some profit on them.  I think that how and why the Agency Model first came to be is the issue. 

[Omnigeek]

I prefer Baen's business model but I don't have any issues with the Agency model either.  I detest how Amazon is trying to corral the entire industry.

[AlanNJ Inspired Bibliophile]

The thing that bothers me is that the original Amazon $9.99 e-book pricing was artificial from the beginning but somehow people got the idea that $9.99 was the real price.  It is, of course, the real price for some books but not all...

Now pricing will most likely favor Amazon and cause potential issues for B&N.  While I personally have no love for either B&N or Amazon I do prefer having competition as it benefits me in the end.  If Amazon sees the court's decision as a way to stifle competition then I'm not happy about this.

[Omnigeek]

---

AlanNJ wrote:

The thing that bothers me is that the original Amazon $9.99 e-book pricing was artificial from the beginning but somehow people got the idea that $9.99 was the real price.  It is, of course, the real price for some books but not all...

Now pricing will most likely favor Amazon and cause potential issues for B&N.  While I personally have no love for either B&N or Amazon I do prefer having competition as it benefits me in the end.  If Amazon sees the court's decision as a way to stifle competition then I'm not happy about this.

---

Good detailed breakout on CNET:  http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57412587-93/why-e-books-cost-so-much/?tag=TOCcarouselMain.0

[DeanGibson Distinguished Bibliophile]

---

RHWright wrote:
...

So dance away! Just be aware that you may be dancing on the NOOK's grave. B&N can't lose money on most of the content they sell along with barely breaking even on hardware. Go ahead and celebrate the return of cheap, cheap, cheap books! I hope you're still dancing when the only ereader you can buy is a Kindle and the only content you can get is from Amazon. And suddenly Amazon decides it can't keep absorbing those losses and jacks prices back up to where they are now.

---

1. The Nook hardware readers were valuable, when inexpensive tablets (and tablet-like devices) for reading were non-existent.  Today, there are many inexpensive such devices available, and both B&N and Amazon offer reader software for them.  The number of such devices will increase in the next two years.  The disappearance of Nook devices would not be the end of the world, nor would it necessarily be the end of B&N, or B&N sellling eBook content.
2. The business entry cost to an eBook content seller is remarkably low.  If B&N goes away (I don't think they will, but it matters not), and Amazon prices go up, someone else (perhaps many entrants) will enter the market.
3. What's to stop each publisher from selling eBooks directly (via the Internet), and in ePub format???  What's to keep them from just cutting Amazon out of the loop for eBooks?  Remember what happened to Beta vs. VHS?  All it might take is for some publishers to offer some eBooks exclusively, and consumers just might decide that ePub and an inexpensive generic tablet is the way to go.  It seems that Google might be betting on that possibility, and I'd be astounded if the current publishing houses aren't considering that, as a backup plan ...

As for B&N, the way to survive is not to price-compete with Amazon, but to build customer loyalty.  So far, thay haven't been succeeding in that area.  Amazon's customer service (especially their response to accuracy issues on their web pages) is clearly superior to B&N's.

[Ya_Ya]

---

DeanGibson wrote:

1. The Nook hardware readers were valuable when inexpensive tablets (and tablet-like devices) for reading were non-existent.  Today, there are many inexpensive such devices available, and both B&N and Amazon offer reader software for them.  The number of such devices will increase in the next two years.  The disappearance of Nook devices would not be the end of the world, nor would it necessarily be the end of B&N or B&N sellling eBook content.

---

In your opinion will non-book-sellers ever embrace any of the epaper technology?  If B&N, Sony and Kobo get out of the field will there be a non-LCD reading device?  The iRiver hasn't done very well, IIRC, so would non-booksellers see it worth their while to bother with such a "small" market?  Would they just go all LCD?

(Not that anyone cares if I'd be sad, but if there were no epaper displays - eink/Mirasol/Liquavista - I'd be sad.)

[MacMcK1957]

I would certainly miss the e-ink. Since getting an iPad I find it very useful for a lot of things, but for pure reading it does strain the eyes a lot more than my NST. I would hope we never lose the pure reader as an option.

[Doug_Pardee Distinguished Bibliophile]

---

DeanGibson wrote:

The business entry cost to an eBook content seller is remarkably low.  If B&N goes away (I don't think they will, but it matters not), and Amazon prices go up, someone else (perhaps many entrants) will enter the market.

---

They're there. They've been there. Nobody cares, because small dealers' prices are generally much higher than the big operations, selection is weak, and downloading is a royal pain involving Adobe Digital Editions.

Let's take a look at a specific non-Agency e-book, A Mortal Terror (Billy Boyle World War II Mystery Series #6):

• $13.75 B&N
• $9.99 Amazon
• $11.99 Apple
• $15.49 Kobo
• $9.99 Sony
• $14.75 Google
• $25.00 Books A Million
• $22.19 Powells
• $23.99 eBookMall
• $24.18 Copia
• $25.00 Diesel
• $25.00 ebooks.com
• N/A Books on Board
• N/A Bilbary
• N/A eReadable
• N/A Fictionwise
• N/A eReader.com
• N/A OverDrive
• --- CyberRead went out of business a year ago

"Nobody" even buys from Google, who's been selling e-books for about a year now. People want wireless download, not ADE.

[DeanGibson Distinguished Bibliophile]

---

Ya_Ya wrote:

---

DeanGibson wrote:

1. The Nook hardware readers were valuable when inexpensive tablets (and tablet-like devices) for reading were non-existent.  Today, there are many inexpensive such devices available, and both B&N and Amazon offer reader software for them.  The number of such devices will increase in the next two years.  The disappearance of Nook devices would not be the end of the world, nor would it necessarily be the end of B&N or B&N sellling eBook content.

---

In your opinion will non-book-sellers ever embrace any of the epaper technology?  If B&N, Sony and Kobo get out of the field will there be a non-LCD reading device?  The iRiver hasn't done very well, IIRC, so would non-booksellers see it worth their while to bother with such a "small" market?  Would they just go all LCD?

(Not that anyone cares if I'd be sad, but if there were no epaper displays - eink/Mirasol/Liquavista - I'd be sad.)

---

I think it's just a matter of time (months) before there is a color eInk-type tablet device with very low battery consumption, and in a couple years it will outsell LCD tablet devices.  The demand for low-power color displays is just too huge.  Who still has a CRT display device (monitor, TV, etc)?  Only the government.

[keriflur]

---

Doug_Pardee wrote:

---

DeanGibson wrote:

The business entry cost to an eBook content seller is remarkably low.  If B&N goes away (I don't think they will, but it matters not), and Amazon prices go up, someone else (perhaps many entrants) will enter the market.

---

They're there. They've been there. Nobody cares, because small dealers' prices are generally much higher than the big operations, selection is weak, and downloading is a royal pain involving Adobe Digital Editions.

Let's take a look at a specific non-Agency e-book, A Mortal Terror (Billy Boyle World War II Mystery Series #6):

• $13.75 B&N
• $9.99 Amazon
• $11.99 Apple
• $15.49 Kobo
• $9.99 Sony
• $14.75 Google
• $25.00 Books A Million
• $22.19 Powells
• $24.18 Copia
• $25.00 Diesel
• $25.00 ebooks.com
• N/A Books on Board
• N/A Bilbary
• N/A Fictionwise
• N/A eReader.com
• N/A OverDrive

"Nobody" even buys from Google, who's been selling e-books for about a year now. People want wireless download, not ADE.

---

Hi, I'm Nobody.  I don't mind ADE.  I don't see what the big deal is about it.  I download the ACSM file and the book appears in ADE.  Then I close ADE, connect my nook, open the ADE folder and transfer the ebook file.  Easy peasy.

I buy from Google too.    If I were buying this book, though, I'd jump though the PITA hoops to buy from Sony.

[Ya_Ya]

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keriflur wrote:

Hi, I'm Nobody.  I don't mind ADE.  I don't see what the big deal is about it. 

---

This is heresy.  Heresy I tell you.  You dare not say such a thing out loud.  

I don't actually mind ADE, never understood why people thought sideloading a library book/other vendor book was oh so inconvenient and I've bought most of my recent ebooks from non-B&N sellers...

[RHWright]

---

Ya_Ya wrote:

---

keriflur wrote:

Hi, I'm Nobody.  I don't mind ADE.  I don't see what the big deal is about it. 

---

This is heresy.  Heresy I tell you.  You dare not say such a thing out loud.  

I don't actually mind ADE, never understood why people thought sideloading a library book/other vendor book was oh so inconvenient and I've bought most of my recent ebooks from non-B&N sellers...

---

It's not inconvenient, just a lot less convenient than OTA wireless delivery.

[keriflur]

---

RHWright wrote:

---

Ya_Ya wrote:

---

keriflur wrote:

Hi, I'm Nobody.  I don't mind ADE.  I don't see what the big deal is about it. 

---

This is heresy.  Heresy I tell you.  You dare not say such a thing out loud.  

I don't actually mind ADE, never understood why people thought sideloading a library book/other vendor book was oh so inconvenient and I've bought most of my recent ebooks from non-B&N sellers...

---

It's not inconvenient, just a lot less convenient than OTA wireless delivery.

---

I actually find it a bit more convenient (heresy, heresy!!).  Since I backup all my ebooks on my computer, I have to download the nook books twice - once on my computer and once on my PC.  With the ADE books, I download and then transfer.  Since I *have* to download the ADE book before I can read it, I don't get lazy and forget to back up, and then have to figure out what books I need to backup later.

[Omnigeek]

---

DeanGibson wrote:

What's to stop each publisher from selling eBooks directly (via the Internet), and in ePub format???  What's to keep them from just cutting Amazon out of the loop for eBooks?  Remember what happened to Beta vs. VHS?  All it might take is for some publishers to offer some eBooks exclusively, and consumers just might decide that ePub and an inexpensive generic tablet is the way to go.  It seems that Google might be betting on that possibility, and I'd be astounded if the current publishing houses aren't considering that, as a backup plan ...

---

Nothing -- this is what Baen does today.  I will note that Baen doesn't have the catalog that Simon & Schuster or Randomhouse do but that just gives them more strength.  When it comes to e-books, I'm not sure why the publishers even have to offer the e-edition through anything but their own website other than for the buyer's convenience.

[sub_rosa]

The ebook industry blossomed in the retail-model (pre-agency) era, and it will thrive again.  It allows companies like Kobo to once again offer discounted prices to compete with the big boys.  $9.99 is probably a good price point for new releases - and the publishers and authors should just get used to it.  Music artists did, and people still make music.

[sirwillard]

---

DeanGibson wrote:
The business entry cost to an eBook content seller is remarkably low.  If B&N goes away (I don't think they will, but it matters not), and Amazon prices go up, someone else (perhaps many entrants) will enter the market.

---

 The problem here is DRM. If Amazon can eliminate competitors through under pricing, they can then raise the prices with little worry that a competitor will enter the market to challenge them. The entry cost might be remarkably low, but since the competitor won't be compatible with the DRM they'll find it nearly impossible to persuade customers away from Amazon.

[gobasso]

---

sirwillard wrote:

---

DeanGibson wrote:
The business entry cost to an eBook content seller is remarkably low.  If B&N goes away (I don't think they will, but it matters not), and Amazon prices go up, someone else (perhaps many entrants) will enter the market.

---

 The problem here is DRM. If Amazon can eliminate competitors through under pricing, they can then raise the prices with little worry that a competitor will enter the market to challenge them. The entry cost might be remarkably low, but since the competitor won't be compatible with the DRM they'll find it nearly impossible to persuade customers away from Amazon.

---

Unless, of course, the competitor offers a best-selling, must read book and won't sell it on Amazon. Then all the Kindle customers will be out of luck.

[Omnigeek]

---

sub_rosa wrote:

The ebook industry blossomed in the retail-model (pre-agency) era, and it will thrive again.  It allows companies like Kobo to once again offer discounted prices to compete with the big boys.  $9.99 is probably a good price point for new releases - and the publishers and authors should just get used to it.  Music artists did, and people still make music.

---

Just how often did Kobo offer ebooks under cost to compete with Amazon?  How much of that do you think they can support?

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57412587-93/why-e-books-cost-so-much/

The whole reason the publishing houses were worried was that Amazon was devaluing their product and competitors who couldn't afford to lose $2.50 a copy were going to be driven out.

A lot of people see $10 as a price barrier point -- it's convenient and easy to think about.  I don't much like paying more than $8-10 but I have to wait for the book to come out in paperback, get surplused or appear at my used bookstore if that's what I want to pay.

J.K. Rowling is making a go of it at less than $10 a copy but she already has a guaranteed audience in the tens of thousands -- more than most books can count on in first release -- and has already amortized the cost of editing, artwork, etc.

I happen to think creative people will find a way to thrive no matter which model is used but don't spread misinformation to support your philosophical point.

[keriflur]

Is there any law that says that the pubs have to treat Amazon the same as other vendors?  Do they have to have similar contracts with all their vendors, or sell the books to each vendor at the same price?

Just wondering.  I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this line of thinking.