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Distinguished Correspondent
scott88
Posts: 177
Registered: ‎11-19-2010
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Re: I will not buy any more eBooks

 


AlanNJ wrote:

 

 Don't forget that the B&N message board is not necessarily typical of the average user.  My observation is that most people just pay the price that is asked whatever it is and don't question it.  I know a number of people with e-readers and if I bring up the Agency 5 (6 now) I just get a blank stare back.

People just don't think about price if it's something they want.

Just my opinion.


It is not that they do not think about the price it is that they are willing to pay the price. That is they value they place on the ebook is higher then the price they are asked to pay.

 

I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar.
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scott88
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Re: I will not buy any more eBooks

 


LarryOnLI wrote:

swan480 wrote:

 


ABthree wrote:

 

 

The best informed guess has always been that Amazon and those pricematching Amazon at $9.99 were paying the publishers wholesale price for eBooks -- half of hardcover list, or $12 -$13 each.  No one involved will say so on the record, but the interpretation is out there, and no one is denying it, either.  So, Amazon was selling every eBook at a $2 - $3 loss.  Why?

 


I highly doubt those figures are correct.  Since the majority of agency ebooks are NOT $12.99 or higher, and since the publishers now pay the bookseller 30 percent of that, your figures would mean that the publishers are now selling ebooks at less than they were getting wholesale.  Even an ebook priced at $14.99 would only bring the publisher $10.50.  Why would they do that when they could (if what you say is correct) get an easy $12-$13 per ebook?

 


Actually this fact was discussed by the publishers when the agency model was first being implemented a year ago.

 

McMillan and other publishers acknowledged that they would actually make less per copy from the new pricing model.

 

ABThree missed a third and fourth reason why Amazon was willing accept a loss on eBook bestsellers.

 

Third: Only current New York Times bestsellers were promised at $9.99, other books were priced dependently, with some cheaper, and some much more. By luring customers in with the $9.99 loss leader, Amazon had the chance to sell eBooks with a much higher profit margin.

 

Fourth: Using the $9.99 price point, Amazon hoped to grab the lions share of the eReader market. Once the majority of eBook purchasers were locked into the Kindles proprietary format, they could have down whatever they wanted with prices.

 


Amazon does not have the power to lock you in only you have that power. This is good for consumers because it forces anyone that wants to compete with to offer something so much better (like a color ereader) that people are willing to go switch despise having to repurchase the books or  keep your old Kindle (or at least the kindle app) around.

 

I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar.
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RHWright
Posts: 1,619
Registered: ‎10-21-2009
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Re: I will not buy any more eBooks

Ummm...I just had an epiphany. :smileyvery-happy:

 

If publishers are really against eBooks and see it as cannibalizing DTB sales, why don't they just not offer their titles in eBook form?

 

I mean, that is the point of copyright & the contracts the publishers make with authors/copyright holders—they have a monopoly on that content.

 

Famous author holdouts JK Rowling, JD Salinger, and Harper Lee have shown that if you don't like eBooks (for whatever, IMO, wrong-headed reasons) you don't have to make them available. The fact that it encourages some to pirate your works not withstanding.

 

So I don't think, now, that the jacked up prices are an attempt to kill eBooks; it's just the old modes of thinking not able to cope with the new paradigm.

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ABthree
Posts: 4,123
Registered: ‎01-27-2010
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Re: I will not buy any more eBooks

 


RHWright wrote:

Ummm...I just had an epiphany. :smileyvery-happy:

 

If publishers are really against eBooks and see it as cannibalizing DTB sales, why don't they just not offer their titles in eBook form?

 

So I don't think, now, that the jacked up prices are an attempt to kill eBooks; it's just the old modes of thinking not able to cope with the new paradigm.


 

Because the genie's already out of the bottle.  It's too late to kil eBooks.

 

I think your last sentence is correct:  they DON'T know how to cope with the new paradigm, but they want to control it regardless.  So their actions are often irrational:  sometimes they act like they want to kill eBooks, other times they act like they want to exploit them. 

 

The one thing that they NEVER act like, at least not yet, is like they want to encourage and grow them.

+LORD, preserve the good in their goodness, and+
+in your kindness, make the wicked become good.+
-- St. Basil the Great+
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ABthree
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Re: I will not buy any more eBooks

 


swan480 wrote:

This is evolving into a highly frustrating conversation.  My main argument here just has to do with whether the unconfirmed $12-$13 price that Amazon was paying was true.  I can't help it -- I will always be skeptical anytime someone says, "We have no proof, but..."

 

And I just don't see the big publishers gaining pricing control just to do what they're doing with the prices.  If they dropped the prices, they'd sell more -- a lot more, judging by how many people I see complaining about the prices of ebooks.  If they didn't like the ebook industry, as some people have claimed and others denied, they would raise the prices even more and cripple the industry.

 


 

If you'll always be skeptical of a well-reasoned argument from several independent sources because the documentation doesn't meet some idealized specification, I have no more to say on the score.

 

I finally get the second paragraph:  you don't understand why the publishers don't act like you would if you were in their place.  As I and several others have tried to explain, it's because they don't THINK like you do.  You seem to have trouble accepting that, so I don't have anything more to say on that score, either.

 

Happy reading.  :smileyhappy:

+LORD, preserve the good in their goodness, and+
+in your kindness, make the wicked become good.+
-- St. Basil the Great+
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hymie
Posts: 41
Registered: ‎10-21-2009

Re: I will not buy any more eBooks

Publishers, like any other large company, have a great deal invested in Doing Things The Way We've Always Done Them. It is extremely difficult for such companies to deal with disruptive technology - it isn't just the company as a whole, it's also the individual employees who all want to just keep doing their jobs. It's almost a stages of grief thing. First you hope that the new technology will go away. Then you try to hammer it into the old way of doing things. Then you get angry at the nimble competitors who are eating your lunch. Then you go out of business.

 

It's actually quite brave of B&N to push the Nook even though it might cannibalize their DTB business.

 

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ABthree
Posts: 4,123
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Re: I will not buy any more eBooks

 


hymie wrote:

Publishers, like any other large company, have a great deal invested in Doing Things The Way We've Always Done Them. It is extremely difficult for such companies to deal with disruptive technology - it isn't just the company as a whole, it's also the individual employees who all want to just keep doing their jobs. It's almost a stages of grief thing. First you hope that the new technology will go away. Then you try to hammer it into the old way of doing things. Then you get angry at the nimble competitors who are eating your lunch. Then you go out of business.

 

It's actually quite brave of B&N to push the Nook even though it might cannibalize their DTB business.

 


Well put!  And the more successful Doing Things the Way We've Always Done Them has been in the past, the more difficult the adjustment and the more wrenching the change.  Difficult and wrenching enough to generate a lot of denial.

 

+LORD, preserve the good in their goodness, and+
+in your kindness, make the wicked become good.+
-- St. Basil the Great+
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bklvr896
Posts: 4,814
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Re: I will not buy any more eBooks

 


swan480 wrote:

 

But really aggravates me is when prices go up on a book that has been in print for a while.  As we established earlier in the thread, the OP's example was wrong, but I have seen it happen, and that is the most upsetting thing to me.  We're talking about older books where the demand has dropped significantly, most of the big expenses (cover design, editing, etc.) has been recouped long ago, and their best way to sell more books is to price them low enough that people will buy them without thinking about it too hard.


I will admit, if I'm going to get stuck on this book, this is generally where I get stuck, on the older books.  But then I realized that DTBs don't go down in price simply because they're older.  An example that I can think of is the Elvis Cole series by Robert Crais.  The first one was published in paperback in 1992.  That's almost 20 years ago.  It's $7.99 new, which is the same price as a large percentage of new paperbacks.    Elvis Cole #11 is $9.99 but I believe it's one of those larger paperbacks (not trade, just bigger).  My point is that an almost 20 year old DTB that is new, is not discounted, so I guess I can't expect the eBook to be discounted either.  I want it to be, but what I want and what I expect aren't always the same thing.  Publishers don't discount their product based on the age.  

 

Distinguished Correspondent
scott88
Posts: 177
Registered: ‎11-19-2010
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Re: I will not buy any more eBooks

What  gets lost in these ebook price v DTB price threads is that an ebook does not equal a DTB. Each format has its pluses and minuses. To say that just because they are both books they should be priced the same is like saying that there is no difference between Ryan Leaf and Peyton Manning, hey they are both QBs right?

I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar.
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bklvr896
Posts: 4,814
Registered: ‎12-31-2009

Re: I will not buy any more eBooks

 


scott88 wrote:

What  gets lost in these ebook price v DTB price threads is that an ebook does not equal a DTB. Each format has its pluses and minuses. To say that just because they are both books they should be priced the same is like saying that there is no difference between Ryan Leaf and Peyton Manning, hey they are both QBs right?


 

Ok, I wouldn't have known who those guys were if you hadn't included they were quarterbacks, but I guess I don't get the analogy.  

 

I buy a book for the story or the information inside, generally not for the format, so in that respect, to me at least, they're equal.  They both give me the ability to read what's inside.  So I'm not sure why you feel that eBook does not equal a DTB, they both have the same content inside.

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scott88
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Re: I will not buy any more eBooks

 


bklvr896 wrote:

 


scott88 wrote:

What  gets lost in these ebook price v DTB price threads is that an ebook does not equal a DTB. Each format has its pluses and minuses. To say that just because they are both books they should be priced the same is like saying that there is no difference between Ryan Leaf and Peyton Manning, hey they are both QBs right?


 

Ok, I wouldn't have known who those guys were if you hadn't included they were quarterbacks, but I guess I don't get the analogy.  

 

I buy a book for the story or the information inside, generally not for the format, so in that respect, to me at least, they're equal.  They both give me the ability to read what's inside.  So I'm not sure why you feel that eBook does not equal a DTB, they both have the same content inside.


Can you look up a work in a DTB just by clicking on it? The words are the same but the it is not the same or why would be bother to "move to" (how can you move to something that is not different) ebooks if it is just the same as DTB? There must be something in the ebook format that is making people prefer it over DTB and a reason some people want DTB and not ebooks.

 

I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar.
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shadowcat80
Posts: 2,356
Registered: ‎12-25-2010

Re: I will not buy any more eBooks


bklvr896 wrote:

 


scott88 wrote:

What  gets lost in these ebook price v DTB price threads is that an ebook does not equal a DTB. Each format has its pluses and minuses. To say that just because they are both books they should be priced the same is like saying that there is no difference between Ryan Leaf and Peyton Manning, hey they are both QBs right?


 

Ok, I wouldn't have known who those guys were if you hadn't included they were quarterbacks, but I guess I don't get the analogy.  

 

I buy a book for the story or the information inside, generally not for the format, so in that respect, to me at least, they're equal.  They both give me the ability to read what's inside.  So I'm not sure why you feel that eBook does not equal a DTB, they both have the same content inside.


I don't get the analogy either because I think what he was refering to Peyton Manning is a future hall of famer and Ryan Leaf is a NFL bust. 

 

Each format has something going for it though example I have three books that are autographed by the  author, can't do that with an e-book.  But, E-books have the convience and, have the advantage that an e-reeader can hold a ton of books in its library.

Help me down the crooked road. Lead me to the light. I'm not sure I know the way but with you beside me, I'm certain we'll make it through.
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sandpanther
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Registered: ‎01-27-2007
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Re: I will not buy any more eBooks

....If a mass market paperback you wanted had been $7.99 for a long time, but when you finally went to buy it, you found that it was $12.99 even though it was still the same exact product, would you still buy it?

 

If you've been to a bookstore lately ,the mass market PB has gone up. The new taller  style is now $9.99 up from $7.99 and plus it still takes around a year for a HC to go to PB.

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scott88
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Re: I will not buy any more eBooks

 


shadowcat80 wrote:

bklvr896 wrote:

 


scott88 wrote:

What  gets lost in these ebook price v DTB price threads is that an ebook does not equal a DTB. Each format has its pluses and minuses. To say that just because they are both books they should be priced the same is like saying that there is no difference between Ryan Leaf and Peyton Manning, hey they are both QBs right?


 

Ok, I wouldn't have known who those guys were if you hadn't included they were quarterbacks, but I guess I don't get the analogy.  

 

I buy a book for the story or the information inside, generally not for the format, so in that respect, to me at least, they're equal.  They both give me the ability to read what's inside.  So I'm not sure why you feel that eBook does not equal a DTB, they both have the same content inside.


I don't get the analogy either because I think what he was refering to Peyton Manning is a future hall of famer and Ryan Leaf is a NFL bust. 

 

Each format has something going for it though example I have three books that are autographed by the  author, can't do that with an e-book.  But, E-books have the convience and, have the advantage that an e-reeader can hold a ton of books in its library.


Exactly do people that expect a fully loaded V6 Honda Accord to be priced the same as a 4 cylinder bare bones Accord? Of course not even though the are the same model of car the features are different so you pay a different price.

 

I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar.
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reader_824
Posts: 486
Registered: ‎11-29-2010
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Re: I will not buy any more eBooks

I'm one of the people who'll not buy a new DTB since I have my ereader.  The only DTBs I buy are those I can't get in Nook format.  Lots of reasons, for me.  I haven't ever found a paperback that was so outstanding for some reason I couldn't part with it, so "format" or "presentation" is lost on me.  I'm only concerned about the content and the ereader allows me to change color of background, increase font, etc. for my reading enjoyment. No DTB does that.  All of the ebooks I've purchased have been cheaper than buying new and about as cheap as buying used (and cheaper if I count in the gas to drive to a couple used book stores to hunt for the titles I want.) 

 

There will always be people who only want DTBs and people like me who've been "converted and seen the light."  :smileyhappy:

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shadowcat80
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Re: I will not buy any more eBooks

@scott that's a more apt analogy with the cars then the qbs.

Help me down the crooked road. Lead me to the light. I'm not sure I know the way but with you beside me, I'm certain we'll make it through.
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schatzieWI
Posts: 648
Registered: ‎01-22-2010

Re: I will not buy any more eBooks

What I find fascinating about this thread is that people will spend $xxx on an electronic reader and then complain about the price of books. Why didn't you keep the money, buy paperbacks or go to the library to get free reading material or use your computer to download and read the free e-books? If I had limited funds, I wouldn't have purchased a nook or nookcolor. I think the initial purchase of the nook is the big expenditure. My library consists of DTB'S, some decent free ebooks and ebooks I have purchased. I have donated all my paperbacks because that was the goal I had when I bought my nook. I also was able to get rid of several magazine subscriptions. Please, before you buy a nook, examine your reading habits, do a cost analysis and decide what is right for you.
Inspired Wordsmith
dvt88
Posts: 388
Registered: ‎01-04-2011

Re: I will not buy any more eBooks

schatzieWI: I agree with you. I own a BMW an it takes only 93+ octane gas. Well that gas cost more than any other gas. I wiil not buy anymore of that Gas! Ya, Right! I knew when I bought the car what I was in For!! LOL
Distinguished Wordsmith
sygram
Posts: 499
Registered: ‎05-28-2010

Re: I will not buy any more eBooks

 


schatzieWI wrote:
What I find fascinating about this thread is that people will spend $xxx on an electronic reader and then complain about the price of books. Why didn't you keep the money, buy paperbacks or go to the library to get free reading material or use your computer to download and read the free e-books? If I had limited funds, I wouldn't have purchased a nook or nookcolor. I think the initial purchase of the nook is the big expenditure. My library consists of DTB'S, some decent free ebooks and ebooks I have purchased. I have donated all my paperbacks because that was the goal I had when I bought my nook. I also was able to get rid of several magazine subscriptions. Please, before you buy a nook, examine your reading habits, do a cost analysis and decide what is right for you.

Put thought into a purchase?  Are you mad?  Are you trying to completely destroy our economy?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

 

(I never realized how much fun all the extra punctuation was to use!!!)


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JohnP51
Posts: 1,294
Registered: ‎12-31-2008
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Re: I will not buy any more eBooks

Ah, the joys of when the need for instant gratification meets short attention span.

John

"Books are for people who wish they were somewhere else." ~ Mark Twain