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Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
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04-26-2012 03:36 PM
Bears_Chick wrote:I LOVE my NOOK as well; however, one of the main reasons I purchased a NOOK over a Kindle was because two of my girlfriends had NOOKs and said "we can lend books to each other!" So cool! I went with the NOOK. Then another one of our gfs went out and also bought a NOOK also, for the same reason. Just today we realized that you can only lend a book one time. I understand putting limitations on lending, but ONE TIME?! Seriously?! I can lend a physical book to as many friends as I want, but an eBook, which I paid the SAME PRICE for... I can only lend to ONE friend. So now it's going to be a rush... who can get the Lend Me the quickest! I'm very disappointed!
To the powers that be, you need to change this! Keep a limit on it if you want, but allow us to lend four-five times. Be realistic!
The B&N DRM allows to you to share books by just copying them to another ereader. For the first book you will have type in the credit card number and name to unlock it. This will be remembered for all other books.
Install Nook for PC on your PC to download your ebooks. Then you can share those books with your friends by just copying them to another ereader (using the USB cable).
You can copy any B&N DRM book as many times as your want, to as many readers as you want. That is the big advantage of B&N's DRM compared to Kindle and Adobe.
Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
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04-26-2012 04:01 PM
Bears_Chick wrote:Sun Cat, I realize it's not BN. I read the thread... Hence "Powers That Be" and not Dear, BN.
Do you think publishing agencies don't read threads on the BN website that are talking about the rules they make?
No, I don't think publishers follow these boards. Very few people even know that these boards exist, since B&N has removed all links to them from their main site.
IMO the only effective way to lobby for publishers to change the rules is to write directly to the executives who make those decisions.
Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
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05-22-2012 12:20 PM
I think B&N should instantiate a feature that allows you to earn lends (either purchasing a package of 5 lends for $X.XX or earn one lend for each book you review and also one free lend with each B&N book purchased). Lends would be like a currency, usable for any book in your library that you want to lend.
Only allowing a book to be lent to one other person at a time is reasonable to prevent oversharing and is grounded by the reality that you can only lend a hardcopy book to one person at a time. Also cap the number of current outstanding lends from a person's library as well.
I thought of all of this in 5 minutes and it makes sense as well as seems fair
I will go more in-depth on this topic in a blog post later this week (lets say 05/24/12) here at http://www.jrulle.com/hey-barnes-noble-let-my-peop
Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
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05-22-2012 12:25 PM
Ullejr wrote:I think B&N should instantiate a feature that allows you to earn lends (either purchasing a package of 5 lends for $X.XX or earn one lend for each book you review and also one free lend with each B&N book purchased). Lends would be like a currency, usable for any book in your library that you want to lend.
Only allowing a book to be lent to one other person at a time is reasonable to prevent oversharing and is grounded by the reality that you can only lend a hardcopy book to one person at a time. Also cap the number of current outstanding lends from a person's library as well.
I thought of all of this in 5 minutes and it makes sense as well as seems fair
I will go more in-depth on this topic in a blog post later this week (lets say 05/24/12) here at http://www.jrulle.com/hey-barnes-noble-let-my-peop
le-lend
You are overlooking the most important fact. These are publisher restrictions. And the publishers have decided to disable lending for most books.
Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
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05-22-2012 01:04 PM
Ullejr wrote:I think B&N should instantiate a feature that allows you to earn lends (either purchasing a package of 5 lends for $X.XX or earn one lend for each book you review and also one free lend with each B&N book purchased). Lends would be like a currency, usable for any book in your library that you want to lend.
Only allowing a book to be lent to one other person at a time is reasonable to prevent oversharing and is grounded by the reality that you can only lend a hardcopy book to one person at a time. Also cap the number of current outstanding lends from a person's library as well.
I thought of all of this in 5 minutes and it makes sense as well as seems fair
I will go more in-depth on this topic in a blog post later this week (lets say 05/24/12) here at http://www.jrulle.com/hey-barnes-noble-let-my-peop
le-lend
I would think a person would research their facts before they wrote such a thing on a blog only to be ridiculed later by said facts. Read all the posts and then decide if that is the topic you want to write.
Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
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05-22-2012 01:59 PM
Copyrights are in place to prevent folks from COPYING original works of authors, writers, etc without explicit written permission from the author of the work. Publishers get permission via contracts from the author to certain rights towards the work such as to print copies of the books and market/sell them in exchange for royalties, etc. As a rule, those contracts include how and what type of copies can be made and an exclusive to that publisher. In return, that publisher usually will protect that exclusive right to protect themselves and the author.
Once we purchase a printed book, we can do anything we want to it, including giving it away or destroying it. Because we purchased that COPY of the printed book for which the publisher recieved permission from the author to print in exchange for part of the profit for selling that printed book. It would be a bit difficult and time consuming for someone to make a physical copy of a printed book to give to a friend (considering the cost of buying another legal copy) but I suppose it could be done if one wanted to make a point, the not a point I would understand.
Libraries pay a premium to buy and the right to loan out printed books that are not donated to them.
The only way to give away or loan out an ebook is by making a COPY of it. And it's illegal WITHOUT permission from the author or publisher (as a legal holder of the copyright, limited or otherwise) of the ebook.
The whole "purchasing a lease to read it" rather than owning my copy seems more like a made up reason to explain why one can't make a copy, than the actual reason. I borrow a book to read from the library too, but no one charges me nearly $20 for the priviledge per book unless I return the book in such a state that it has to be replaced.
I own MY copy of the ebook. I do not hit a button that says "rent", I hit a button that says "buy". That does NOT however, give me the right to MAKE A COPY OF THE ebook for any reason other than what the publisher/author has granted, same as for any digital/software purchase! I do not purchase that right with a printed version of the book and it is not a given right with the digital version either unless the author and/or publisher grants it.
Since I can not give or loan the book without making a copy of it, I can't give or loan it without permission. Some publishers give very limited rights to the copy that we purchase. Others are more generous.
WIth the lend me program, we (B&N and the reader) ARE being given permission (by participating publishers/authors) to make a copy to share ONE time for a limited time period to someone not on our account.
For all ebooks we purchase from B&N, we are also allowed to share a book on several devices that are all on the same account. THEN to top it all off, we ARE given the right to make a copy to give to someone in return that we also share our credit card information with that person so they can read it. A right that can be given with some assurance that we aren't likely to share that information with very many people, thus limiting who and how many times we do it.
I don't see this as any severe limitations in sharing ebooks among family members and close friends except those who gripe but don't read posts for solutions before griping, or continue to gripe after post after post gives them the solutions.
You ARE allowed to share your ebooks with ANYONE you want to....as long as you also share your credit card information so they may open and read the ebook. That is entirely up to you and no one is stopping you.
Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
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05-22-2012 02:41 PM
compulsivereaderTX wrote:
You ARE allowed to share your ebooks with ANYONE you want to....as long as you also share your credit card information so they may open and read the ebook. That is entirely up to you and no one is stopping you.
And you don't even have to give them your credit card number. All they have to do is hand you their nook, you put in the number, and give it back to them. They don't have access to the cc number at all. That's what we do with my kids' nook. (We do this because I buy all the books on one account and sideload to their nook. Thaey are only 10, 8, and 4.) As much as I trust my 10 year old, I am not handing him my credit card number. That would just be asking for trouble. ![]()
Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
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05-22-2012 02:58 PM
frantastk wrote:
compulsivereaderTX wrote:
You ARE allowed to share your ebooks with ANYONE you want to....as long as you also share your credit card information so they may open and read the ebook. That is entirely up to you and no one is stopping you.
And you don't even have to give them your credit card number. All they have to do is hand you their nook, you put in the number, and give it back to them. They don't have access to the cc number at all. That's what we do with my kids' nook. (We do this because I buy all the books on one account and sideload to their nook. Thaey are only 10, 8, and 4.) As much as I trust my 10 year old, I am not handing him my credit card number. That would just be asking for trouble.
that's what my daughter and I do too. We could share the same account, but prefer not to do so. She is older and has her own family now but reading is one passion we both share. This way we have some privacy over what we are reading. Some things I guess daughters and mothers just don't need to know about each other. ![]()
Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
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05-23-2012 09:10 AM
The article is more based on the fact that B&N should lobby on behalf of its readers for a change in eBook distribution policies. If B&N sided with their customers it may help foster a change in the publishing industry... if nothing else it couldn't hurt the effort. The idea is kind of a snowball effect, start with targeting smaller publishers (who will be quicker to change their policies because having their books available for purchase on nook is a major revenue driver for them) and authors and work up the totem pole.
B&N could instantiate a policy and then work with publishers to proactively get authors on board.
The article will talk more about the lack of copyright holding organiztions (i.e. publshers in the literary arena and hollywood movie companies, etc.) to adapt to the online environment that our economy is continually embracing. My above suggestion was simply a e-mirror scenario to the concept of lending a physical book which only seems fair to me.
In no way was a blaming B&N for the policy, I am more asking for them to work with their readership base to find a solution.
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05-23-2012 11:00 AM
The problem with lending ebooks is obvious to everyone, no good solutions currently exist which properly protect all interests. Security of consumer access and control to purchased content is less than ideal. No resale rights etc. Publishers and authors reasonably fear their product being copied and distributed widely, basically for free. Any real solution requires new mechanisms.
It doesn't seem realistic to expect publishers, whose primary obligation is to protect their own and author intersts to champion this. It is equally so to expect BN who after all is in the business of selling books to do so. In the past goverment authored solutions to address consumer and public good. The heightened distrust of goverment, the focus on protecting business, and the ever growing influence of big money cripples any govermental responses. In the short term rules fostering the ability of libraries to buy ebooks affordably and lend them is the best bet.
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05-23-2012 12:02 PM
Ullejr wrote:The article is more based on the fact that B&N should lobby on behalf of its readers for a change in eBook distribution policies. If B&N sided with their customers it may help foster a change in the publishing industry... if nothing else it couldn't hurt the effort. The idea is kind of a snowball effect, start with targeting smaller publishers (who will be quicker to change their policies because having their books available for purchase on nook is a major revenue driver for them) and authors and work up the totem pole.
B&N could instantiate a policy and then work with publishers to proactively get authors on board.
The article will talk more about the lack of copyright holding organiztions (i.e. publshers in the literary arena and hollywood movie companies, etc.) to adapt to the online environment that our economy is continually embracing. My above suggestion was simply a e-mirror scenario to the concept of lending a physical book which only seems fair to me.
In no way was a blaming B&N for the policy, I am more asking for them to work with their readership base to find a solution.
There are already abilities to give/loan your ebooks to family and friends. As many as you want or feel comfortable with. You wouldn't loan out your printed copy to just anyone you didn't trust either. What if they never returned it? What if they destroyed it? It would have to be replaced and you'd have to purchase another copy to do that.
With a printed book, that book is returned after it is read and the borrower does not retain a copy of the book. With an ebook, once you give them a copy of the ebook, they have possession of it for as long as they want and can then distribute it even furtherif they want to. Since they didn't pay for it, they aren't as likely to protect their interest in the ebook as they don't really have any. Some type of restriction has to be in place to limit that distribution. Why should we expect unlimited distribution rights on a $10 purchase? Or even a $20 purchase? That's where the credit card comes into play. I think it's a doable solution for loaning to friends and family. Works fine so far for me.
Unless you are planning to give out copies to the masses?
The only real restriction is the ability to donate the ebook to a public library or to resell it once read as you can with a printed copy of the book. I would like to see this addressed, but I imagine it will be awhile before a solution is found that would allow us to do that and still protect the interests of the copyright holder. The authors probably spent months writing that novel and their interests come before ours. And should. Of course, what we are charged for an ebook, should more closely reflect the limitations we purchase with the ebook, that much I agree with. IF we can't resell it or donate it, then we shouldn't be charged out the nose to read it either.
There are limitations in loaning printed books, being there is only ONE copy that you can loan, limiting who you loan it to and how many people can have it at the same time (ONE). It also limits your own access to that printed book when it is loaned out to another person. (sounds like the lend me program, eh? except you can do it more than once with a printed book until the book needs to be replaced).
I agree that some changes need to be made and I imagine laws will need to be enacted to protect everyone involved, but you are less likely to get results if you are demanding unlimited lending abilities and you want them NOW. Because that is what you are demanding. Again, you already have the ability to lend your ebooks to family and friends, as many as you want to lend to. You don't seem to be getting that though it has been repeated over and over in this thread. As with a printed copy, you are limited only by who you chose to trust.
Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
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05-23-2012 12:35 PM
You can't really set up an e-mirror of the situation because they are NOT the same. With a printed book, there is only ONE copy involved per purchase and it degrades over time with use. And though you COULD scan every page in the book to make a copy, it is going to require a lot more time and effort than buying a new one. With an ebook, there is the potential for millions of copies to be made from ONE purchase and that ebook never degrades, though it might no longer be usable in the future if standard formatting changes.
Resell an ebook? But you'd still have your own copy, so you'd be selling a COPY of the ebook whereas selling a printed book, you are giving up possession of that actual printed book.
It might be the same read in both instances, but the issues involved are completely different. Controlling distribution of ONE copy when only ONE copy is available to distribute is a completely different animal than controlling distribution of an ebook which can and does result in MULTIPLE copies from one purchase. A whole new can of worms.
Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
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06-19-2012 07:10 PM
I agree completley. Every one is posting that is clear in the FAQ's, however that is not the real issue here. I don't care if it is in all caps and bold it still sucks and is not fair. We bought the book and should be able to lend it as many times as we want, just as we would a paper book!!
Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
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06-19-2012 07:46 PM
ssapp94 wrote:...it still sucks and is not fair. We bought the book and should be able to lend it as many times as we want, just as we would a paper book!!
Except that you didn't buy it. That's the point that seems -- for some unknown reason -- to be so elusive. You can't buy an ebook from a major publisher in the same sense that you can buy a paper book. All you can buy is a license to use the file that contains the ebook, and the publisher gets to dictate the terms of the license. Because you don't own anything but the license. You don't even own your copy of the file.
Lots of folks think it sucks. But to say it isn't fair is useless. Everyone has to play by the same rules.
Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
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06-19-2012 09:31 PM - edited 06-19-2012 09:52 PM
Life isn't fair. Deal with it.
ETA:
I am getting so sick of the whole "entitled" attitude. The fact that it's in the terms might not be your point, but it is THE point. Saying you want something more is like buying an apple and then demanding apple pie, because "it's not fair, I deserve more." Um, no, you don't. If you don't like the terms of the ebook you're buying, don't buy it. There are still plenty of paper copies of books out there. No one is making you buy ebooks.
Currently Reading: Dead Ever After
Up Next: Mr. Penumbra's 24-Hour Bookstore
Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
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06-19-2012 10:28 PM
Sun_Cat wrote:
ssapp94 wrote:...it still sucks and is not fair. We bought the book and should be able to lend it as many times as we want, just as we would a paper book!!
Except that you didn't buy it. That's the point that seems -- for some unknown reason -- to be so elusive. You can't buy an ebook from a major publisher in the same sense that you can buy a paper book. All you can buy is a license to use the file that contains the ebook, and the publisher gets to dictate the terms of the license. Because you don't own anything but the license. You don't even own your copy of the file.
Lots of folks think it sucks. But to say it isn't fair is useless. Everyone has to play by the same rules.
"Except that you didn't buy it."
This is the point, like it or not. Personally, I don't fall for it. Simply will not do it. If enough people would do the same, things would change. Obviously, that's not happening.
Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
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06-19-2012 10:55 PM
gb18 wrote:"Except that you didn't buy it."
This is the point, like it or not. Personally, I don't fall for it. Simply will not do it. If enough people would do the same, things would change. Obviously, that's not happening.
None of the friends, acquaintances, coworkers that I know who have some type of ereader care about the prices and they don't care about lending, they buy what they want to read. Of all of them/me, I'm the only one who even pays attention to the prices and I will generally buy a book if I want to read as long as it's not $14.99. I draw the line at $15 for any fiction book, eBook, HC, etc.
I really don't think the price or lending is an issue for a large majority of eReader owners.
Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
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06-20-2012 09:16 AM
Also
bklvr896 wrote:
gb18 wrote:"Except that you didn't buy it."
This is the point, like it or not. Personally, I don't fall for it. Simply will not do it. If enough people would do the same, things would change. Obviously, that's not happening.
None of the friends, acquaintances, coworkers that I know who have some type of ereader care about the prices and they don't care about lending, they buy what they want to read. Of all of them/me, I'm the only one who even pays attention to the prices and I will generally buy a book if I want to read as long as it's not $14.99. I draw the line at $15 for any fiction book, eBook, HC, etc.
I really don't think the price or lending is an issue for a large majority of eReader owners.
Also see this thread:
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06-20-2012 11:36 AM
Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
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06-20-2012 12:33 PM - edited 06-20-2012 12:35 PM
There have been some on this thread that have express the issues very well. The issue with most of those complaining is not really the polices, but the lack of research before buying the device. My NST is my second ebook reader. I bought the first (an ebookwise 1150) because I discovered gutenberg.org and several authors I wanted to read. I figured that I would buy an ereader because it was much more convenient than reading on a laptop. I was aware of the policies regarding ebook purchases and to me it did not matter because I planned on using the device to read mostly free ebooks anyway. When I bought the Nook, I chose it over the Kindle because of the touch feature (which Kindle hadn't introduced yet) and because it would read epubs, the "standard" ebook format. Again I knew what the terms of "purchase" and lending were going to be before I bought the device.
I personally have had an ereader for 5+ years and have only "purchased" three ebooks that I can remember. I completely agree with the industries handling of digital copies of books. They would be too easy to pirate not to use some form of DRM and put some restriction on lending. Purchasing the "right to display" a work instead of purchasing a digital copy makes perfect sense. My problem is with the prices they change. If the "right to display" is going to cost me nearly as much as buying a physical copy, I will either not buy or buy the physical copy. So, I have not purchased many books. But my point is I understood this going in. Before you purchase a device, know what you are getting and what the terms of use are. If you can't live with the terms of use, don't buy the device.