Reply
Frequent Contributor
geertm
Posts: 869
Registered: 02-09-2010

No new Penguin e-books for library lending, and none for Kindle library lending at all

No new Penguin e-books for library lending, and none for Kindle library lending at all.

 

http://www.thedigitalshift.com/2011/11/ebooks/penguin-group-usa-to-no-longer-allow-library-lending-o...

 

Perhaps too many people are using the library because of those very high Penguin agency prices.

Doug_Pardee
Posts: 5,170
Kudos: 3,043
Registered: 03-09-2010

Re: No new Penguin e-books for library lending, and none for Kindle library lending at all

Wow, it's getting nasty. I think it's about time for me to write to my politicos.

 

Particularly interesting is how Amazon is getting slammed harder than the Adobe EPUB world. That's bound to make AMZN very annoyed. We'll see how it plays out.

Inspired Correspondent
gobasso
Posts: 120
Registered: 12-26-2009
0

Re: No new Penguin e-books for library lending, and none for Kindle library lending at all

I don't understand why the publishers feel threatened by lending e-books through the library. Public libraries have been lending for decades and it doesn't seem to have hurt publishers. Anybody have some incite into the publishers reasoning for not allowing libraries to lend?

Frequent Contributor
nutz4books
Posts: 31
Registered: 12-04-2010
0

Re: No new Penguin e-books for library lending, and none for Kindle library lending at all

How about starting an online petition through Change.org or something to Penguin, Harper Collins, etc to encourage ebook lending for libraries? What do greedy publishers have against public libraries who serve the public good of their communities?

 

Distinguished Bibliophile
deemure
Posts: 3,932
Registered: 12-28-2009
0

Re: No new Penguin e-books for library lending, and none for Kindle library lending at all

I believe a petition is a great idea.  Publishers have become so stupid, really.  Library lending not only provides a community service that is good for the soul (provides many "free" entertainment and knowledge they might not otherwise get), but they also create readers.  People that use them also pay to read books, maybe not in the present, but at some point in time.  And, using the library just creates a cycle that leads to more books being sold.  The less books available, the less likely people are to use a library, then fewer books are bought, and less people reading, and so on. If publishers are not willing to do things for altruistic reasons, then they at least should do them for profit-oriented ones.

 

I do promote library lending and am not so in favor of companies doing the library lending, since I think actual libraries need the support.  I understand why others like the company lending, but libraries offer so much more than just bestseller or popular ebooks and they often are used as community centers.

"I still believe in spite of everything that people are good at heart." Anne Frank.
Inspired Correspondent
gobasso
Posts: 120
Registered: 12-26-2009

Re: No new Penguin e-books for library lending, and none for Kindle library lending at all


gobasso wrote:

I don't understand why the publishers feel threatened by lending e-books through the library. Public libraries have been lending for decades and it doesn't seem to have hurt publishers. Anybody have some incite into the publishers reasoning for not allowing libraries to lend?


Sorry, I obviously meant insight. Although, in this case incite might express my feelings more accurately.

Distinguished Bibliophile
deemure
Posts: 3,932
Registered: 12-28-2009

Re: No new Penguin e-books for library lending, and none for Kindle library lending at all

[ Edited ]

gobasso wrote:

gobasso wrote:

I don't understand why the publishers feel threatened by lending e-books through the library. Public libraries have been lending for decades and it doesn't seem to have hurt publishers. Anybody have some incite into the publishers reasoning for not allowing libraries to lend?


Sorry, I obviously meant insight. Although, in this case incite might express my feelings more accurately.


The reason they do this is because they really are not quick to adapt to things and they are looking for ways to make the most out of each individual ebook.  They can't see that ebooks have the potential for way more sales than DTBs and look for shortterm, rather than longterm gains. For the record, this is going on all over with stockholders having a much bigger say in things than customers.

 

They don't yet understand the ebook market and especially potential customers.  They are enacting things they wish were possible in the hard copy world.  This is exemplified in their vision of how retailers should be able to sell ebooks (set price, no variance) and the lack of flexibility that true ownership of a book entails.  They have always hated that if I buy a dead tree book I can give it away or sell it when done with it, because I own it.  They have no control over it once I buy it.  With ebooks they view a book as being licensed to you, not owned by you.

 

Now, with libraries, they think in a real short-sighted way that they are just losing money all over the place.  They try things like licensing ebooks for only 1 year of lending, whereas a hard copy book if taken care of could be lent for an indefinite period of time.

 

Again, they do not understand that in promoting libraries and library reading and lending, they are creating customers.  Not everyone will buy books, but most will.  And the adults that come in to borrow books, often bring in their kids and those kids become readers and book buyers, too.  Libraries sometimes set up book reading clubs not just for adults but kids.  And even booksellers do what libraries do-booksellers have always had seats near bookshelves and let customers browse and even read all day long.  Because booksellers know they are creating good will and promoting reading, which leads to buying.

 

 

In their defense, I also think they are still in a growing period with all of this.  There are so many older books people want to see as ebooks and "develpment" costs can be high, so they are under pressure to be making the same profits in a down economy while creating ebooks from current and past content.

 

They are also having to pay unexpected costs for things such as illustrations within ebooks that have different licensing concerns than printed illustrations.  So, money is a real part of the equation.  Again, it's shortterm rather than longterm thinking.

 

"I still believe in spite of everything that people are good at heart." Anne Frank.
Doug_Pardee
Posts: 5,170
Kudos: 3,043
Registered: 03-09-2010

Publishers and libraries


gobasso wrote:

 

I don't understand why the publishers feel threatened by lending e-books through the library. Public libraries have been lending for decades and it doesn't seem to have hurt publishers.


They generally believe that library lending has hurt them, but (at least in the US) the law says that they can't control what people do with a book after it's been sold. There is no such law for e-books, and the big publishers are taking advantage of that.

 

Some recent Circuit Court rulings have weakened the laws for physical books, and libraries are getting concerned. In particular, the 2nd Circuit Court — with jurisdiction in New York, Connecticut, and Vermont — has ruled that a book's not covered by that law (generally known as Right of First Sale) if it was printed outside of the US, so the publisher can dictate what the buyer is permitted to do with the book, including prohibiting the buyer from lending or reselling it. See here for details.

 

Inspired Wordsmith
frantastk
Posts: 610
Registered: 06-29-2010
0

Re: No new Penguin e-books for library lending, and none for Kindle library lending at all

[ Edited ]

That's just sad. My library system is a huge supporter of ebooks. They have held several classes in the last few months teaching people to use their ereaders of all types. As a matter of fact they just received a huge grant to purchase 130 e-readers. I think the newsletter mentioned they will be getting Nooks, Sonys, and Kindles. My library is a countywide system with about 18 libraries, but still this was huge since it isn't big city system. Nothing like Philly, but they've been adding titles very quickly.

 

 

Inspired Correspondent
gobasso
Posts: 120
Registered: 12-26-2009
0

Re: No new Penguin e-books for library lending, and none for Kindle library lending at all

Thanks Doug and deemure. I think it's a shame in general when companies are forced to think only in the short run because of stock holder expectations. I think it will prove disastorous for publishing companies and therefore disastorous to their stock holders. I didn't follow the link but the thought of inhibiting the exchange of ideas by limiting the lending of books is a threat to democracy! Yikes!

Wordsmith
ProfReader
Posts: 1,038
Registered: 02-18-2010
0

Re: No new Penguin e-books for library lending, and none for Kindle library lending at all

[ Edited ]

Now we have four of the big six offering no new ebooks to us library patrons isn't this just dandy.

Distinguished Wordsmith
bklvr896
Posts: 3,873
Registered: 12-31-2009

Re: No new Penguin e-books for library lending, and none for Kindle library lending at all

Does anyone besides me think this is deja vu with the Lend Me program.  Amazon announces the Lend Me program, within weeks or so, most publishers pull their books from the program.  Amazon announces library lending and within a short time, Penguin pulls out due to "security concerns".  Maybe that was Amazon's plan all along.  If the Kindle can now use library books, the publishers are upset because now it's a hug number of eBook owners that can get the books from the library, so they figure the big publishers will start to back out.  There goes a selling point for the Nook, and Amazon's sales don't get hurt by the libraries.

Inspired Scribe
Ya_Ya
Posts: 3,049
Registered: 09-29-2010
0

Re: No new Penguin e-books for library lending, and none for Kindle library lending at all


ProfReader wrote:

Now we have four of the big six offering no new ebooks to us library patrons isn't this just dandy.


Four of the big Six?  

 

I had missed that.  I knew HarperCollins was limiting lends, but missed that that many had pulled out.


I got a job and haven't been reading as much since I started working 60 hours a week again...

Frequent Contributor
geertm
Posts: 869
Registered: 02-09-2010
0

Re: No new Penguin e-books for library lending, and none for Kindle library lending at all

Doug_Pardee
Posts: 5,170
Kudos: 3,043
Registered: 03-09-2010
0

Re: No new Penguin e-books for library lending, and none for Kindle library lending at all


Ya_Ya wrote:

 

Four of the big Six?  

 

I had missed that.  I knew HarperCollins was limiting lends, but missed that that many had pulled out.


Macmillan: no library e-books

Simon & Schuster: no library e-books

Penguin: only older titles available through libraries, none through Kindle

Hachette: only older titles available through libraries

HarperCollins: library e-books limited to 26 lends

Random House: no limitations (yet, but see geertm's posting above)

 

Inspired Correspondent
gobasso
Posts: 120
Registered: 12-26-2009
0

Re: No new Penguin e-books for library lending, and none for Kindle library lending at all


Ya_Ya wrote:


I got a job and haven't been reading as much since I started working 60 hours a week again...



Sorry your not reading as much but happy you've found work.

Inspired Scribe
Ya_Ya
Posts: 3,049
Registered: 09-29-2010
0

Re: No new Penguin e-books for library lending, and none for Kindle library lending at all


Doug_Pardee wrote:

Macmillan: no library e-books

Simon & Schuster: no library e-books

Penguin: only older titles available through libraries, none through Kindle

Hachette: only older titles available through libraries

HarperCollins: library e-books limited to 26 lends

Random House: no limitations (yet, but see geertm's posting above)


You know, I knew the bolded above, I just didn't realize it all, if that makes sense.

 

And now that you've pointed it out, I remember a discussion where someone brought up that she had noticed that many of the new releases weren't available as ebooks - but when I looked at it, it seemed that only Little Brown (that's Hachette, right?), and Macmillan and Simon & Schuster which were missing.  (And it was a given that Macmillan and Simon & Schuster would be missing as they do no library ebooks...)  That the italicized above has happened saddens me.

 

I'm all for a business doing what it believes to be in its best interest, but I think this decision is a bad one.  I don't think it really is in the publishers' best intersts to keep their ebooks out of libraries and it's definitely not in the public's best interest for libraries to be limited in their ability to serve...

Inspired Correspondent
gobasso
Posts: 120
Registered: 12-26-2009
0

Re: No new Penguin e-books for library lending, and none for Kindle library lending at all


nutz4books wrote:

How about starting an online petition through Change.org or something to Penguin, Harper Collins, etc to encourage ebook lending for libraries? What do greedy publishers have against public libraries who serve the public good of their communities?

 


I think asking famous and popular authors to speak out about this situation would also be an effective way to change the publishers minds.

Distinguished Correspondent
Nerdgirljenn
Posts: 122
Registered: 01-13-2011
0

Re: No new Penguin e-books for library lending, and none for Kindle library lending at all

Gobasso, I think that is a great idea, they may have a bigger voice than the readers...

I have found titles from the library (and because they were recommded by goodreads in some of my groups) that I never would have picked up before, and will buy because I want to read them again, and again, I have purchased them, but if not for the library, I would not have taken the plunge...

"The earth laughs in flowers."~Emerson
"Where there is love, there is life." ~Ghandi
Correspondent
Nancy_BC
Posts: 54
Registered: 10-02-2011
0

Re: No new Penguin e-books for library lending, and none for Kindle library lending at all

[ Edited ]

As of a few days ago, Penguin restored their ebooks to Overdrive. KIndle users can now check out ebooks until the end of the year. The future is still uncertain. Wonder how all this will play out next year?

 

Here is a quote from one of the articles.

 

When it returned access to hundreds of titles last week, Penguin said only that the books will be available through the end of the year, and no new titles will be added. What happens after Jan. 1 is unclear, said Susan Deschens, assistant director for technology at Nashua Public Library.

“We apologize for the inconvenience this caused for your library and patrons,” said OverDrive, the company that handles the process for libraries, in a statement. “At this time, no further information is available. We hope to share more details in the near future.”