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Distinguished Correspondent
HumbleCorrespondent
Posts: 201
Registered: ‎05-13-2011
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Re: Operating system trivia


DeanGibson wrote:

HumbleCorrespondent wrote:
... He is not complaining that the system reserves some of the B&N content space for possible, future system use.

 Ah, "... that anyone in their right mind would reserve 50% of a partition 'just because'."


HumbleCorrespondent wrote:
 He is just saying that to be useful, the calculation of available B&N content space should be total available space minus the reserved system amount. Then he can manage the space he has more easily.

 

And I happen to agree with that (as I stated above, "Now, if you are arguing that this limit is poorly communicated to the user, I'll agree.").  However, I'd like to know of an OS that quotes the amount of space MINUS the amount that is needed for reliable operation.  Linux doesn't.  Windows doesn't.  On these systems you sometimes get a warning when space is low (and sometimes not), but the "margin" is not subtracted from the report of available memory.

 .

 .

 .

In summary, B&N has provided an imperfect solution.


 

Yes, but Windows and Linux don't give the the user a black box in which to manage their content. Also, this is analogous to a space issue on those systems, not a memory issue.
That's just my opinion, you can take it for what it's worth, or just leave it alone.
Distinguished Correspondent
ukscone
Posts: 155
Registered: ‎03-24-2011
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Re: Operating system trivia


PeterDe wrote:
Would it be bad of me to say that my head hurts after reading this thread?

NO. I have a headache too from reading half of it. But then again I normally do after spending any amount of time on these forums. That's why I normally just scan them, see who has posted and then skip over the majority of threads.

Mark_OB1
Posts: 1,580
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Registered: ‎12-14-2010

Re: 1.4.1 B&N Content Storage Available weirdness

[ Edited ]

> It blocks the operation.

It won't install. It will download or unarchive but the installation process is blocked with the low memory popup <

 

Thanks, ukscone.  Since this is a hard block, and not a warning, then that ~400 MB of space is in fact reserved for non-App purposes.  In fact, something has to be reserved, because there has to be enough room for the DEX cache, to be able to run the app.  

 

B&N has apparently chosen to reserve more space (for emails and many other purposes, as Dean pointed out), and selected a number they felt would avoid most problems from cropping up.  I.e., they know the point where their system becomes flakey, and selected a number to preclude that.

 

On my rooted NC, I have about 95 apps installed, using ~300 MB of the 900 MB total space available.  Based on that, I assumed I was using about 1/3 of the space, and had room for ~300 apps (of the existing average size), based on having 600 MB free.  Thanks to ukscone, I see this is not the case, and I actually have only ~200 MB free.  I appreciate having that information.

 

However, in my case, my misunderstanding was based on my own (flawed) analysis.  What has happened here is that, based on many user requests, B&N has added a Free Space gauge for the internal system space (which is a good thing!).  On non-legacy NCs, that now also includes B&N books, etc. and is quite important to users.  In that context (i.e., 5 GB total, or 12G on the NT), a 0.4G deviation isn't going to be noticeable (at least not right away).  However, on legacy systems, with only <1G there to start with, it becomes painfully obvious much sooner.

 

If R is the reserved space, and A is the App space used, and S is the total System space, B is the purchased Book content, and F is the Free space, then it should report:

 

  F = S - B - A - R;  (on legacy systems with B=0, simply S - A - R)

 

Reporting F = S - A really is not useful information, since the user has no knowledge or direct control over R.  I think that's something that both ukscone and Dean could agree with.  And I think this is something that could be forwarded to the B&N software team for consideration.

 

As ukscone has brought to light, the Free Space gauges are most useful when they can be used to evaluate what options the user has available.  When it appears they have F space available, but it is in reality F - X (where X is unknown to the user, but appears to be ~400M here), that will result in confusion, and an inability to gauge what resources are available, and what the user can and can't do.

 

I'm sure that B&N can do better than that, and this is probably simply something that didn't occur to them.  Mostly as a result of the fact that they are focused on the future (devices with 5-12 GB in that space), and not the past (devices with 0.9G in that space).  While much is being made of it here in the heated exchanges, it really is a minor "oops tweak", that could be easily rectified in 1.4.2.

 

[I would especially recommend this change, because at this point, we don't actually know if X = k (~400MB), or if X = (S - y) * n% + z.] 

 

- Mark 

 

Distinguished Correspondent
ukscone
Posts: 155
Registered: ‎03-24-2011
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Re: 1.4.1 B&N Content Storage Available weirdness

[ Edited ]

Mark_OB1 wrote:

> It blocks the operation.

It won't install. It will download or unarchive but the installation process is blocked with the low memory popup <

 

Thanks, ukscone.  Since this is a hard block, and not a warning, then that ~400 MB of space is in fact reserved for non-App purposes.  In fact, something has to be reserved, because there has to be enough room for the DEX cache, to be able to run the app.  

 .

.

.

 

[I would especially recommend this change, because at this point, we don't actually know if X = k (~400MB), or if X = (S - y) * n% + z.] 

 

- Mark 

 


er yeah wot he said!

 

It'll be interesting to see at what value the low mem warning pops up on a new partitioned nookcolor and/or nooktablet. Hopefully it's a fixed amount rather than a percentage (unless it's a small percentage on those setups).

 

Distinguished Bibliophile
roustabout
Posts: 3,619
Registered: ‎03-31-2011

Re: 1.4.1 B&N Content Storage Available weirdness

[ Edited ]

Mark outlines a word problem:

 

   R is the reserved space, and A is the App space used, and S is the total

   System space, B is the purchased Book content, and F is the Free

   space, then it should report:

   F = S - B - A - R;  

 

But missed the opportunity to describe space as Unified, rather than System, whereupon the various guages under discussion would have been referred to by the expression

 

F = U - B - A - R 

"no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution.
Scribe
dfehling
Posts: 563
Registered: ‎03-04-2011
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Re: 1.4.1 B&N Content Storage Available weirdness


roustabout wrote:

Mark outlines a word problem:

 

   R is the reserved space, and A is the App space used, and S is the total

   System space, B is the purchased Book content, and F is the Free

   space, then it should report:

   F = S - B - A - R;  

 

But missed the opportunity to describe space as Unified, rather than System, whereupon the various guages under discussion would have been referred to by the expression

 

F = U - B - A - R 


You beat me to the punchline!! 

Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. ~Attributed to Groucho Marx
Mark_OB1
Posts: 1,580
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Registered: ‎12-14-2010
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Re: 1.4.1 B&N Content Storage Available weirdness

roustabout chimed in with:

 

> But missed the opportunity to describe space as Unified, rather than System, whereupon the various guages under discussion would have been referred to by the expression

F = U - B - A - R

 

What we have here is a wisenheimer.  Nyuk, nyuk.  :smileyvery-happy:

 

- Mark

 

Mark_OB1
Posts: 1,580
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Registered: ‎12-14-2010
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Re: 1.4.1 B&N Content Storage Available weirdness

dfehling comented:

 

> You beat me to the punchline!! <

 

I made it way too easy for him.  He didn't even have to UnScrabble any letters.  :smileyhappy:

 

- Mark

 

(rousty made it there first, but if you go to the end of the line, there's still some punch available.  bring your own cup.)

 

 

Distinguished Correspondent
HumbleCorrespondent
Posts: 201
Registered: ‎05-13-2011
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Re: 1.4.1 B&N Content Storage Available weirdness


ukscone wrote:

Mark_OB1 wrote:

> It blocks the operation.

It won't install. It will download or unarchive but the installation process is blocked with the low memory popup <

 

Thanks, ukscone.  Since this is a hard block, and not a warning, then that ~400 MB of space is in fact reserved for non-App purposes.  In fact, something has to be reserved, because there has to be enough room for the DEX cache, to be able to run the app.  

 .

.

.

 

[I would especially recommend this change, because at this point, we don't actually know if X = k (~400MB), or if X = (S - y) * n% + z.] 

 

- Mark 

 


er yeah wot he said!

 

It'll be interesting to see at what value the low mem warning pops up on a new partitioned nookcolor and/or nooktablet. Hopefully it's a fixed amount rather than a percentage (unless it's a small percentage on those setups).

 


FYI -- I have the 5 GB B&N / 1 GB user partition scheme on my NC.  The other day, my NC told me I had about 500 MB that could be used for additional content.  But when I tried to install an app, I got the low memory warning telling me to archive some stuff.  So, that appears to be the cutoff.

That's just my opinion, you can take it for what it's worth, or just leave it alone.
Distinguished Correspondent
ukscone
Posts: 155
Registered: ‎03-24-2011
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Re: 1.4.1 B&N Content Storage Available weirdness


HumbleCorrespondent wrote:

FYI -- I have the 5 GB B&N / 1 GB user partition scheme on my NC.  The other day, my NC told me I had about 500 MB that could be used for additional content.  But when I tried to install an app, I got the low memory warning telling me to archive some stuff.  So, that appears to be the cutoff.


ok that means we just mentally subtract 500MB from the indicator (did you try to install a book after getting the popup?) It would be interesting to know if apps and books and enhanced books are treated differently or not when it checks to see if there is free space available.

DeanGibson
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Registered: ‎04-12-2011

Re: 1.4.1 B&N Content Storage Available weirdness


HumbleCorrespondent wrote:

  So, that appears to be the cutoff.


A more interesting question would be, how big is the application that it declined.

2 Nook HD/8GB + 2 Nook HD+/16GB: B&N 2.2.0 rooted
2 Nook Touch (one Ltd. Ed.): B&N 1.2.1 rooted; Dell Venue 8 Pro: Windows 8.1
Nook 1stEd/3G: B&N 1.7.0 rooted.; Acer Iconia A500: Android 4.0.3 rooted;
Nook Color: B&N 1.4.3 rooted; Samsung Galaxy Tab2 (7.0"): Android 4.2.2 rooted
Customer loyalty is earned, not commanded or deserved, and easily lost.
Never suspect intent where incompetence will do.
Distinguished Correspondent
ukscone
Posts: 155
Registered: ‎03-24-2011
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Re: 1.4.1 B&N Content Storage Available weirdness


DeanGibson wrote:

HumbleCorrespondent wrote:

  So, that appears to be the cutoff.


A more interesting question would be, how big is the application that it declined.


On the original partitioning scheme it was a 235k-ish app