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Inspired Wordsmith
yocalif
Posts: 817
Registered: ‎01-03-2011

Accused of a Hate Crime.. in PC world...

I didn't get a chance to reply in the controversial thread that was closed.

 

To anyone that chooses to read my posts or reflections, including poor attempts at humor, I am older white American, who is a Viet Nam vet, father of 2.5 college grads, married 32 years (to the same beautiful woman), conservative values, Christian, home owner, and love my Nookcolor.  I make no apology for who I am, and try to live as my father said, "judge a man not by his skin color, his beliefs, or what he says, judge him by what he does!"  

 

I will not bow to PC considerations, just because the intollerant can not stand any reference or phrase they deem unacceptable.  Sometimes the obvious humor in a situation is unavoidable but everyone is afraid to say it or laugh because they are worried of offending someone's PC mantra.

 

IT WAS AN ATTEMPT AT NON PC HUMOR, using a GIANT LEAP from non relative reference, iced with sarcasm. 

 

The word deviant is what set hyper criticism off, I chose the word for it's NON PC implications.  I didn't make any reference to life styles, sexual preferences, only the so called tollerant critics made those conclusions.  I didn't describe what may or may not be deviant that is left for you to decipher from some of the various comprehensive sex ed courses & advocate agenda,  being taught under the auspices public school sex education and health. 

 

The phrase that crap being taught in schools, is reference to what is important to teach rather than what is taught: comprehensive sex-ed curriculum is almost exclusively teaching about contraception and encouraging teens to use it. This curriculum neither discourage nor criticize teen sexual activity as long as "protection" is used. Instead sex ed exhibit an acceptance of casual teen sex and do not encourage teens to wait until they are older for sexual activity. The main message is to use condoms to prevent the physical problems of sexually transmitted diseases and pregnancy. Comprehensive sex-ed curriculum ignore the vital linkages between sexuality, love, intimacy, and commitment. There is no discussion of the idea that sex is best within marriage. 

What should be taught and isn't:

• Human sexuality is not animal, physical as in nature, it is primarily emotional and psychological.

• , sexual activity with proper circumstances leads to emotional bonding between two individuals. and can be long term.

• intimacy, love, and commitment--are critical elements linked to sexual happiness and qualities found primarily within marriage.

 

Is sex ed as it is working?  You be the judge

From USA Today

The teen pregnancy rate in the U.S. is twice that of any other industrialized nation.

 

The ref. about only 20% of students can pass a social studies test is accurate.  I couldn't find the original article that had the percentages but this will do.



 

While some may have just simply accused me of being a troll,  some go right for the jugular

 

I now am condemned as:

• "posts full of bigotry and misinformation,"

• insulting others as less intelligent "posting that one person is less intelligent then another."

• anti-gay and intollerant: "anti gay slurs and fully agree with tolerance".

• misinforming people: "referencing the misinformation"

• I am actually seriously lacking intelligence, plus a bigot, "bigotry and misinformation as was stated are examples of the opposite of intelligence"

• I haven't a clue how to describe this, "It's not that opinions themselves exhibit ignorance, but it is the foundation for the opinions."

• Uninformed and not enlightened: "intelligence, it also cannot be linked to awareness or enlightenment,"

• condemn as abhorrent and as not tollerant by the intollerant, "responsibility to respond when abhorrent comments are made.If no response is made then by our silence we are in some implicit agreement with the statements.  History is replete with stories of those standing idly by while such pernicious thoughts became ingrained in societies."

• I am now a Nazi, "Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me. ~Pastor Niemoller

 

I appreciate those who responded, and understood my poor attempt at humor and sarcasm.

Thank you.

 

Finally political correctness is more than substituting certain words or phrases to mean something more acceptable.  i.e.

Reproductive Health = Abortion, 

Investment = Government Spending

undocumented worker = illegal alien

equality or social justice = handicapping or punishing performers and producers

 

Political Correctness is far more insidious than just the language attack, the world turns in to "Alice in Wonderland world"  it’s sometimes difficult to know what is upside down and what is not.  

 

I choose to NOT play the game, and I promise to be as accurate as possible.

 


 

Inspired Contributor
crabbybob
Posts: 125
Registered: ‎04-29-2011

Re: Accused of a Hate Crime.. in PC world...

Geez yocalif, I feel for you. I know what it's like to be misunderstood. I never read the thread but I bet I can imagine what you posted didn't get the respect it deserved.
Distinguished Scribe
normysmom
Posts: 635
Registered: ‎03-19-2011

Re: Accused of a Hate Crime.. in PC world...

Maybe if one just posts what one means to say in a clear, succinct manner and in less inflammatory language, one wouldn't get the types of responses that were generated this morning. This is NOT to say that all of the responses were all sweetness and light either, but we reap what we sow sometimes. Respectfully yours, nm
Nothing like a fire, a cat and a good Nook!
Inspired Wordsmith
chuck4prez
Posts: 722
Registered: ‎04-29-2011

Re: Accused of a Hate Crime.. in PC world...


normysmom wrote:
Maybe if one just posts what one means to say in a clear, succinct manner and in less inflammatory language, one wouldn't get the types of responses that were generated this morning. This is NOT to say that all of the responses were all sweetness and light either, but we reap what we sow sometimes. Respectfully yours, nm


I don't know, I got the jist of yocalif's response just fine, even with all the speculation clouding the water.  IMHO, it was plenty clear.  It certainly was not hateful. well, maybe a little toward education standards and ciriculum(sp) focus. Anyone who pays taxes is entitled to that though.

 

I think the key in this particular case is to not add any context to someone's words that they did not include. any way you slice it, implied or not, adding context to someone elses words is assuming, and it reflects negatively on both parties because we all interperet differently.

 

BTW, if a person is going to go around promoting tollerance for a certain demographic (which is ok in my book) it is COUNTERPRODUCTIVE to faltsely accouse someone of projecting an opinion that they did not project. Said person is likely to appear intollerant.  Tollerance can not be bound to any specific groups, it is everybody or nobody.

 

My advice? If you do not fully understand what was meant, either ask for clarification or don't respond.

Inspired Contributor
crabbybob
Posts: 125
Registered: ‎04-29-2011
0 Kudos

Re: Accused of a Hate Crime.. in PC world...

Curiosity got the better of me and I went and read the thread. I never expected to read such hate filled garbage on this site.
Wordsmith
Sardonicus
Posts: 380
Registered: ‎05-11-2010

Accused of PC.. in hate-filled world...

[ Edited ]

yocalif wrote:

I didn't get a chance to reply in the controversial thread that was closed. . .

 



Well, Nanny Hours begin tomorrow @ 9:00 A.M. (EST).  You might as well get it all out now - while you can.:smileyhappy:

 

 


yocalif inexplicably wrote:

. . . I am older white American . . .  

 


Shouldn't posts be judged by content rather than the [unconfirmable] author's demo stats? :smileyindifferent:

 

 


yocalif then wrote:

. . . 

 

The phrase that crap being taught in schools, is reference to what is important to teach rather than what is taught: comprehensive sex-ed curriculum is almost exclusively teaching about contraception and encouraging teens to use it. . . .

 


Actually, YoCalif, what you said was: "If our children have to have that crap forced upon them in school . . ."

 

Your comment was in response to a post complaining of "all these gay porn books".

 

 

Sorry, YoCalif, but it sure seems that you posit that "our children" are having "gay porn books"  "forced upon them"

without any evidence of such. 

(Feel free to present a link exampling the gayification of "our children":smileyvery-happy:)

 

Yep.  Unsubstantiated and unsustainable suppositions presented as fact. 

That absolutely screams "AM talk radio" to the discerning ear.

 

JMO, of course.  :smileyhappy:

 

 

 

The people who live in a golden age usually go around complaining how yellow everything looks.

- Randall Jarrell








Correspondent
retiefBD
Posts: 140
Registered: ‎04-15-2011

Re: Accused of PC.. in hate-filled world...

Well, my Mom told me I shouldn't, but what the heck ....

 

Yo-Man, I predate you by a few years and we will celebrate our 40th together in just over a week, but I think we are close enough that I can respond.

 

Nuance is always difficult to convey in email and forum posts, and the situation is even worse when you recognize that many people who read an email or a forum post realy don't bother to actually "read", much less make a determination as to intent behind the words.  I consider myself a fairly good judge of the "sarcastic" and "ironic" and "humorous" in posts, and to quite honest when I read yours in the referenced thread I was not quite sure myself, but what I read would not put me in a position of going off on you, although it was close to having me send a PM so that I could accurately judge.  It is unfortunate that we have to worry so much, although those who don't give a rip about anyone else's sensibilities don't worry, they just spew and spout no matter what. 

 

BUT, there is always one, I will take you to task for going way over the top with this thread, in my opinion which I am not at all humble about.  I just reread the thread, and I see one poster single you out, another making a joke, and a third defending you.  Most of the comments are on how sad it is the thread degenerated.  So when I look at your title in this thread, and read your first post, I wonder what the point is.  Some may think it is just an attempt to start controversy.  Personally I don't think it is, but I do wonder why this affects you so much to go on as you did in your first post.  A simple "I was trying to be sarcastic and make a joke, I guess a bunch of you didn't get it" would be more than sufficient I think.  But c'mon "will not bow to PC", Geeze-Louise, now look, you made me offend anyone named Louise (yes, that is a piece of really bad humor and is done on purpose, so whack me for telling bad jokes, but I really have nothing against Louise...)

 

What I find most intriguing about this, and this is directed to all those who rant and rave about Heavy Handed Moderation, is that the fact we have so many threads already going in response to one locked thread indicates to me that Heavy Handed is anything but. 

 

The least you could do is refer to the danged Nook Color in these threads, this IS the Nook Color forum after all.  See, even I could sneak a refernce in, and if I can, so can you.

Inspired Wordsmith
yocalif
Posts: 817
Registered: ‎01-03-2011
0 Kudos

Re: Accused of PC.. in hate-filled world...

retiefBD congrats on your 40th, I appreciate everything you said.

 

 Sardonicus said:

Sorry, YoCalif, but it sure seems that you posit that "our children" are having "gay porn books"  "forced upon them"

 

True Sardonicus, however "stuff" was all inclusive (ineffective sex ed curriculums) and some trends of school districts that have adopted controversial extreme curriculums exposing kids to info, that a large segment of society deem inappropriate, ala the reference to the OP..  

 

Again there is nothing hidden I come down on the conservative side of these view points, but that doesn't mean I want to check to see what you do in the privacy of your bedroom or even care.

Inspired Contributor
scosgt
Posts: 316
Registered: ‎04-16-2011

Re: Accused of PC.. in hate-filled world...

When my daughter was in school, a private school that I paid for, she was INDOCTRINATED with that old classic: "Heather has two Moms".

 

Please give me a break, he is correct. It is crap. It is a group imposing its "morals" on the rest of us.

 

Rant over.

Inspired Wordsmith
yocalif
Posts: 817
Registered: ‎01-03-2011
0 Kudos

Re: Accused of PC.. in hate-filled world...

[ Edited ]

 

(I shouldn't try posting while cooking dinner).

 

BTW the purpose of this thead,  I never got a chance to respond to the comments in the orginal thread, so a response in this thread

 

I am not offended in the least, I knew the orig. post would be controversial. 

 

I think from the orignal thread we have discovered who is capable or not of sensibly discussing issues and those who have nothing more to offer discussion than platitudes, or demeaning labels, even to the point of wanting to place a pink badge on me and ship me off to the proverbial "anti - gay" gas chamber, because it was an "abhorrent comment".  Actually this means never jest or disagree with a liberal as it is their responsibility to squash you.  Can't have another pernicious conservative, or society is doomed.

 

It is also somewhat of a responsibility to respond when abhorrent comments are made.  If no response is made then by our silence we are in some implicit agreement with the statements.  History is replete with stories of those standing idly by while such pernicious thoughts became ingrained in societies. 

Distinguished Bibliophile
roustabout
Posts: 3,630
Registered: ‎03-31-2011

Re: Accused of PC.. in hate-filled world...

[ Edited ]

@Scos:  Are there sex scenes in "Heather has two mommies?"  I had not heard this before. 

 

When, in a post with a title referencing "gay erotica," a poster claims that "that's being forced on our kids," it makes it sound like NAMBLA is running the reading list for k-12 now.  (part of context is the post title.) 

 

When someone goes on to suggest that kids are being taught that condoms are important for "deviant sex" in that some post, it's worrisome.  It implies that the poster doesn't understand that right now, there's an epidemic of gonnorrhea and syphillis - not just among folks who might be consuming gay erotica, but affecting all of us.  It's striking as far as retirement communities (once you can't have kids, why bother with a condom seems to be the thinking.) If only deviants are taking care of themselves, then pretty soon there's only going to be deviants. 

 

And although someone can protest that they're uninterested in what happens when my sheep and I close the door in the evening, the choice of the word deviant sends me a different message.  Now, for me, that happens to be a message that I like.  But there are folks who have a different take, and I can understand that a very short post throwing around those cultural tropes, in the context of "gay erotica," is going to be making people more than a little unhappy. 

 

The advice about judging people based on what they do has a problem in an online discussion: 

.

What you do and who you are is what you say.   It's kind of like the Trinity in that the three things are fundamentally inseparable.  In the beginning and at the end here, there are words, and the words are with us, and the words are us.  With apologies to John.   (nb:  yes, I know that the doctrine of the Trinity is not what John 1 is getting at.  But I like the language.) 

 

So, YC, I think it's probably worth reflecting that there are folks who see the post differently, and that part of why you haven't just gone ahead and apologized - not a problem, if you know not to judge yourself just by your words but by your actions, right? - is that apologizing to those who read it differently than you meant it wouldn't just be apologizing for words, but for yourself. 

 

Now, the very prettiest of my sheep and I have a bucket of Crisco to attend to :smileyhappy:

"no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution.
Contributor
bookgirlJJ
Posts: 21
Registered: ‎05-29-2011

Re: Accused of PC.. in hate-filled world...

Yocalif, I do not know you personally, obviously, so I had only your words to go by. I must admit, I don't fully understand what kind of explanation you are attempting to provide to explain away and/or justify your earlier post on that other thread, but you just came right out and said that you knew your post was controversial, so I have to think that, on some level, you were trying to start something. In my response, I did not resort to name-calling or anything of the sort; rather, I was critiquing what was implied in your post, which was that gay erotica is taught in schools, that homosexuality is deviant, and that condoms are only used by those whom you labeled "deviant". Gay erotica is NOT taught in schools, biology has proven that homosexuality is NOT a form of deviance, and condom use is NOT limited to use by homosexuals. Therefore, I have to assume that such statements were posted either due to bigotry or misinformation. These are facts, regardless of your personal opinions. I am a college professor, and I have seen young people destroyed by the kind of statements and implications in your post, so I could not help but respond. As you can see from my profile, I only recently joined the community. I was hoping that it would be a fun place to chat with others who share my love of reading and the Nook Color, but my experience here suggests otherwise. I was not looking for arguments and I am not interested in conversing with people who perpetuate untruths and negative stereotypes, so I will go back to lurking now.
Wordsmith
Sardonicus
Posts: 380
Registered: ‎05-11-2010
0 Kudos

Re: Accused of PC . . . in a hate-filled world...

[ Edited ]

yocalif wrote:

. . . I come down on the conservative side of these view points . . .



Conservative, liberal, moderate - whatever.  They're nothing but labels that mean little to me. 

In this thread (and the other), I spoke to veracity.  Or rather, its absence.:smileyindifferent:

 

 


yocalif wrote:

. . . however "stuff" was all inclusive (ineffective sex ed curriculums) and some trends of school districts that have adopted controversial extreme curriculums exposing kids to info, that a large segment of society deem inappropriate, ala the reference to the OP..  

 


:smileyvery-happy: I've never been a big fan of tap-dancing, so I'm dropping the subject. 

(This horse is more than ready for the glue factory anyway.)

 

Peace, YoCalif! :smileyhappy:

 

 

 

The people who live in a golden age usually go around complaining how yellow everything looks.

- Randall Jarrell








Wordsmith
Sardonicus
Posts: 380
Registered: ‎05-11-2010

At least the man has standards.

[ Edited ]

roustabout wrote:

 

Now, the very prettiest of my sheep and I have a bucket of Crisco to attend to :smileyhappy:


:smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy:

Stop it!

Ewe're going too far.

 

 

 



The people who live in a golden age usually go around complaining how yellow everything looks.

- Randall Jarrell








Distinguished Wordsmith
Josienjoe
Posts: 1,949
Registered: ‎02-15-2010
0 Kudos

Re: Accused of a Hate Crime.. in PC world...

@ yocalif,

 

My opinion, FWIW, continue to be yourself.  :smileyhappy:

Distinguished Scribe
richardwrite25
Posts: 859
Registered: ‎03-12-2011
0 Kudos

Re: Accused of a Hate Crime.. in PC world...

If we take "deviant" to mean what it means, i.e., "deviating from the norm," how can homosexuality NOT be considered to be deviating from the norm?

Distinguished Correspondent
Wild_images
Posts: 173
Registered: ‎02-26-2011

Re: At least the man has standards.

And although someone can protest that they're uninterested in what happens when my sheep and I close the door in the evening,


Hey, leave my girlfriend out of this............

 

 

 

sheep

Distinguished Scribe
richardwrite25
Posts: 859
Registered: ‎03-12-2011
0 Kudos

Re: Accused of a Hate Crime.. in PC world...

If we take "deviant" to mean what it means, i.e., "deviating from the norm," how can homosexuality NOT be considered to be deviating from the norm?  I mean, my brother is left-handed, and I'll admit that this deviates from the norm.

Distinguished Correspondent
Chubby8055
Posts: 135
Registered: ‎04-04-2011
0 Kudos

Re: Accused of a Hate Crime.. in PC world...

Cheers Bud!
Chubbs

Distinguished Bibliophile
deemure
Posts: 3,933
Registered: ‎12-28-2009

Re: Accused of PC.. in hate-filled world...

[ Edited ]

yocalif wrote:

 

(I shouldn't try posting while cooking dinner).

 

BTW the purpose of this thead,  I never got a chance to respond to the comments in the orginal thread, so a response in this thread

 

I am not offended in the least, I knew the orig. post would be controversial. 

 

I think from the orignal thread we have discovered who is capable or not of sensibly discussing issues and those who have nothing more to offer discussion than platitudes, or demeaning labels, even to the point of wanting to place a pink badge on me and ship me off to the proverbial "anti - gay" gas chamber, because it was an "abhorrent comment".  Actually this means never jest or disagree with a liberal as it is their responsibility to squash you.  Can't have another pernicious conservative, or society is doomed.

 

It is also somewhat of a responsibility to respond when abhorrent comments are made.  If no response is made then by our silence we are in some implicit agreement with the statements.  History is replete with stories of those standing idly by while such pernicious thoughts became ingrained in societies. 


Oh, please.  You are now stating by making the comment you did that you wanted to have a sensible discussion of the issues?  Really?

 

And this whole comment is abhorrent as well, to reference pink badges and gas chambers regarding this.  Or, do you think that is sarcasm or that it's funny? I daresay based upon your stated biography you would not find it funny if someone talked about vietnam vets as having been drugged out baby killers (I do not share this opinion and it is very offensive, but it was prevalent during the war among some that were against it) if they said they meant it sarcastically or that it was just a joke.  Where would your sense of humor be then?

 

Stating that someone or that someone's behavior in the instance or your original comment is deviant or to imply that kids are being made to read gay porn is why people found your comments over the top.  And, lest we forget you have often been the first to take people to task for rants and/or political or social discussion that does not focus on the board's main topic.  And this isn't about liberal or conservative-many of us have spoken up when someone with a different bent has been insulted or when anti-whatever words were used against them. 

 

Whenever you seek to defend disparaging a whole group of people by standing back and saying, "I was just joking, you don't get it.  And a certain segment of society is doomed, because we should be able to get beyond it.  But it is actually worse, because if the tables are turned and the group being disparaged is one near and dear to you, then it is an actionable offense.  The fact that you cannot understand this is the core problem.

 

What you said does not make you a nazi, but I stand by the thought that words have wings and that what we all say may help form the opinions of others.  Cancer can start from a single cell.  The thing is some lessons do need to be learned and remembered.  Just because someone points out that in the past people ignored hatespeak, that does not mean they are equating someone with the most virulent form of it.  They are merely saying that words have consequences.

 

What you said was abhorrent and had nothing to do with what the poster asked, whether he was sincere or not.  If someone else had responded in the way you had, you might well have been the first to bemoan that.  You have done so before, but then they don't see things exactly as you do.  And, gee, no one else is allowed to bloviate, either are they?

"I still believe in spite of everything that people are good at heart." Anne Frank.