Since 1997, you’ve been coming to BarnesandNoble.com to discuss everything from Stephen King to writing to Harry Potter. You’ve made our site more than a place to discover your next book: you’ve made it a community. But like all things internet, BN.com is growing and changing. We've said goodbye to our community message boards—but that doesn’t mean we won’t still be a place for adventurous readers to connect and discover.

Now, you can explore the most exciting new titles (and remember the classics) at the Barnes & Noble Book Blog. Check out conversations with authors like Jeff VanderMeer and Gary Shteyngart at the B&N Review, and browse write-ups of the best in literary fiction. Come to our Facebook page to weigh in on what it means to be a book nerd. Browse digital deals on the NOOK blog, tweet about books with us,or self-publish your latest novella with NOOK Press. And for those of you looking for support for your NOOK, the NOOK Support Forums will still be here.

We will continue to provide you with books that make you turn pages well past midnight, discover new worlds, and reunite with old friends. And we hope that you’ll continue to tell us how you’re doing, what you’re reading, and what books mean to you.

Reply
flyingtoastr
Posts: 3,051
Topics: 55
Kudos: 2,980
Registered: ‎11-11-2009

Re: Amazon 7" Color Tablet $250


doncr wrote:

Where they've fallen short is with the eReading experience.  It doesn't bode well when your reading experience is improved by using the BN Android app over what is on the native device.

 



o.O

 

The only thing the android app has that the stock reader doesn't is landscape reading for EPUB files (and a "real" night mode, whatever that means). The stock reader app likewise has a ton of stuff the app doesn't. All in all the stock reader blows the app out of the water.

 

As long as Amazon continues to support only a proprietary format selling people out of getting a Kindle will remain easy. It's amazing how quickly a potential customer will get turned off to a Kindle just by mentioning that you're stuck buying from Amazon and only Amazon for the rest of your life, unless you want to lose all the money you invested.

 

The smartest thing Amazon could do is just to support EPUB already. But they won't, it goes against their company philosophy.

Distinguished Bibliophile
deemure
Posts: 3,933
Registered: ‎12-28-2009
0 Kudos

Re: Amazon 7" Color Tablet $250

I disagree that the NC's ereader is inferior to the nook app. The only area where it fails is landscape mode. That is a big deal, true. But enhanced content cannot be read on the apps. That leaves out many books and magazines. That is a big deal as well.
"I still believe in spite of everything that people are good at heart." Anne Frank.
Wordsmith
doncr
Posts: 493
Registered: ‎12-29-2010

Re: Amazon 7" Color Tablet $250


flyingtoastr wrote:

doncr wrote:

Where they've fallen short is with the eReading experience.  It doesn't bode well when your reading experience is improved by using the BN Android app over what is on the native device.

 



o.O

 

The only thing the android app has that the stock reader doesn't is landscape reading for EPUB files (and a "real" night mode, whatever that means). The stock reader app likewise has a ton of stuff the app doesn't. All in all the stock reader blows the app out of the water.

 

...

 

Yes, feature for feature, the native app is better, but my point is that if they were trying to build the best eReader expeience bar-none they would have those features like landscape and night mode also on their device. To me, it shows that BN isn't focused on producing the best eReading experience on their devices, but oh look - Angry Birds!

 

 

Wordsmith
doncr
Posts: 493
Registered: ‎12-29-2010
0 Kudos

Re: Amazon 7" Color Tablet $250


roustabout wrote:

... 

It will be a cheaper reading tablet over its life, assuming one buys it coming from a Kindle eink reader or without a large library tied to another vendor -- it will read your current Amazon content, and you can continue to buy content from Amazon.  However, if a lot of your reading is Google Books or other drm-free epub content, you won't be happy.  You could, however, convert epub to pdf and port a library across that way, unless Amazon's decided not to support PDF, which would surprise me. 

... 


Buying eBooks from Amazon is cheaper than BN for a number of folks because of the sales tax issue.  It can effectively be a 5 to 10 percent discount on purchases in some states.

 

 

 

flyingtoastr
Posts: 3,051
Topics: 55
Kudos: 2,980
Registered: ‎11-11-2009

Re: Amazon 7" Color Tablet $250


doncr wrote:

 

Yes, feature for feature, the native app is better, but my point is that if they were trying to build the best eReader expeience bar-none they would have those features like landscape and night mode also on their device. To me, it shows that BN isn't focused on producing the best eReading experience on their devices, but oh look - Angry Birds!

 

 


How do you figure? The stock NOOKcolor reader is fantastic, miles ahead of anything else on the market for LCD readers. Yes, it may not have every bell and whistle that every person in the world wants, but it doesn't make it any worse.

 

RE: Sales tax - Amazon isn't going to win for much longer on that as more and more states need the revenues from those sales taxes. Case in point: Amazon is playing economic blackmail and offering to "eventually" bring 7000 jobs to California if they repeal the act that forces Amazon to pay sales taxes. Great company.

Wordsmith
Tim40744
Posts: 536
Registered: ‎07-07-2010

Re: Amazon 7" Color Tablet $250


roustabout wrote:

 

It will be a cheaper reading tablet over its life, assuming one buys it coming from a Kindle eink reader or without a large library tied to another vendor -- it will read your current Amazon content, and you can continue to buy content from Amazon.  However, if a lot of your reading is Google Books or other drm-free epub content, you won't be happy.  You could, however, convert epub to pdf and port a library across that way, unless Amazon's decided not to support PDF, which would surprise me. 

 


FWIW, I noticed that there is a Kobo app as well as an Aldiko app in the Amazon appstore.

Wordsmith
robert93
Posts: 303
Registered: ‎02-28-2011
0 Kudos

Re: Amazon 7" Color Tablet $250

[ Edited ]

I"m sorry, but the only thing that makes the NC reader above any other reader out there is that gorgeous LG display and Capacitive touch.  As far as the reader software goes, it has got  to be the.......HEY!!!! Three more APPS!!!!! :smileyvery-happy:

Distinguished Bibliophile
deemure
Posts: 3,933
Registered: ‎12-28-2009
0 Kudos

Re: Amazon 7" Color Tablet $250


robert93 wrote:

I"m sorry, but the only thing that makes the NC reader above any other reader out there is that gorgeous LG display and Capacitive touch.  As far as the reader software goes, it has got  to be the.......HEY!!!! Three more APPS!!!!! :smileyvery-happy:


 

Again, it depends what matters to you. I like enhanced books. I'd like landscape mode, but other than that, I don't see where the apps work better. The pc app is a bit clunky in many ways. The android phone app is ok, but not anything special. So, what makes the android app for tablets so supremely desirable? I mean, comparing app for app. It's not like either app when reading straight up ebooks is more than an ereading app. The native NC app can do more, because it can read some different things. Again, which you like depends on your likes.
"I still believe in spite of everything that people are good at heart." Anne Frank.
Wordsmith
doncr
Posts: 493
Registered: ‎12-29-2010

Re: Amazon 7" Color Tablet $250


flyingtoastr wrote:

doncr wrote:

 

Yes, feature for feature, the native app is better, but my point is that if they were trying to build the best eReader expeience bar-none they would have those features like landscape and night mode also on their device. To me, it shows that BN isn't focused on producing the best eReading experience on their devices, but oh look - Angry Birds!

 

 


How do you figure? The stock NOOKcolor reader is fantastic, miles ahead of anything else on the market for LCD readers. Yes, it may not have every bell and whistle that every person in the world wants, but it doesn't make it any worse.

 

RE: Sales tax - Amazon isn't going to win for much longer on that as more and more states need the revenues from those sales taxes. Case in point: Amazon is playing economic blackmail and offering to "eventually" bring 7000 jobs to California if they repeal the act that forces Amazon to pay sales taxes. Great company.


If you ever have the chance, I'd encourage you to borrow someone's iPad and look at an issue of The Daily.  That is a first class reading experience and shows what is possible on a tablet device.  That experience is leading and going beyond the status quo.  That is what I want from BN.  If you're happy with what the NC offers, that's great!  I just feel that they are capable of so much more and would like to see them pushing the envelope in the eReader space instead of futzing around with things like Angry Birds.

 

There have been a number of posts since the 1.3 NC update was released regarding the lack of BN addressing the landscape mode issue.  I'm not going to fan those flames here, but I'd say that this ability is beyond the "bell and whistle" category for a number of people.

 

California's budgetary problems aren't because of Amazon.com or any other e-tailer. Besides, SCOTUS has already ruled in 1992 that a business would not need to collect sales taxes unless it has a physical presence in the state.  

Amazon a great company?  Sure, most would agree that they are a tremendous success story. I don't think many would say the same for the California state legislature though.

 

 

 

 

Distinguished Bibliophile
roustabout
Posts: 3,669
Registered: ‎03-31-2011
0 Kudos

Re: Amazon 7" Color Tablet $250

The night mode on the stock reader is white text on an illuminated gray background - try reading with it in the dark and compare it with the night mode in Aldiko or FB Reader.  Those night modes are white text on a black background.

 

Real night mode does a couple of things:  it pushes the contrast up higher, which I like, and it saves battery life a lot because the LCD screen is  not illuminated at all where the device isn't displaying text. The grey background in stock requires that the pixels be on.

 

The stock reader has some very nice features, but it remains an inferior enough product for me that I bought a simple touch only once I knew I could root it, and the first thing I set up was fb sync to sync reading positions between the NC and the NST. 

 

The pricing differentials on ebooks I'm talking about are not 10 or 8% differences (sales tax driven.) 

 

It's 50 % markup by BN relative to Amazon on titles that I know pricing on from an important university press.  And then, BN goes one step farther by stocking fewer titles than Amazon, and poorly chosen ones at that.  (only volume 2 of a two volume set?  Whiskey, Tango Foxtrot.) 

 

Oh, and the Kobo app being available in the Amazon appstore does not mean Amazon will let it be installed on their Kindle platform.  Already we're seeing them flag a lot of apps as not running on the NC.  Opening up a Color Kindle, which they seem to be saying is a loss leader, to competition with other merchants may not be something they intend todo.

"no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution.
Distinguished Wordsmith
PeterDe
Posts: 464
Registered: ‎04-20-2010
0 Kudos

Re: Amazon 7" Color Tablet $250

Richard I misunderstood your post, thanks for clearing it up. Anything from Amazon will force BN to jump ahead, so we are winners in that race! The NC is also very poor in PDF's. I just about gave up trying to read them on my NC because it's so hit and miss. One thing I did notice is that 2 ebook which I put in my wish (out of about 30 total, or about 10%) are no longer offered in ebooks, not sure why, and one of them is still offered as an ebook on Amazon!
Some people can't see the forest for the trees!

4 Nook Household, 2 NOOKs, 2 NOOKcolors
Bibliophile
bklvr896
Posts: 4,818
Registered: ‎12-31-2009
0 Kudos

Re: Amazon 7" Color Tablet $250


SeaFractor wrote:

If you read Siegler's article, he even mentions that he believes it's a single core processor and has 6GB.

 

In fact the description, including the rubberized back, sounds almost like a carbon copy of a Nook Color.

 

If it's the same hardware, minus a microSD card, the only real draw is that it's Amazon.

 

It better have free 3G like the their other Kindles, or the idea of using Cloud services (why it wouldn't need additional storage) wouldn't work well for those that don't have ready access to Wi-Fi.

 

 


My guess it is it won't have a free 3G or possibly not even any 3G.  Free 3G for eink readers is not a costly proposition as the amount of time using the 3G to download books is minimal.  And Free 3G for a color tablet, I don't see Amazon or any other company paying for someone to surf the internet..

 

The cell phone companies themselves are moving away from unlimited data plans.  I could see them offering a subscription service, assuming they want to get into the data plan business.

flyingtoastr
Posts: 3,051
Topics: 55
Kudos: 2,980
Registered: ‎11-11-2009
0 Kudos

Re: Amazon 7" Color Tablet $250


doncr wrote:

flyingtoastr wrote:

If you ever have the chance, I'd encourage you to borrow someone's iPad and look at an issue of The Daily.  That is a first class reading experience and shows what is possible on a tablet device.  That experience is leading and going beyond the status quo.  That is what I want from BN.  If you're happy with what the NC offers, that's great!  I just feel that they are capable of so much more and would like to see them pushing the envelope in the eReader space instead of futzing around with things like Angry Birds.

 



I have used The Daily (didn't care for the content - too much focus on celebrity crap), but it is about the same reading experience that you get with the new enhanced Magazines, in particular Time. So you'll have to explain to me why The Daily is the pinicle of the reading experience and the work that BN put into the enhanced magazine system is a waste of time that isn't improving the reading on an ereader.

Inspired Wordsmith
yocalif
Posts: 817
Registered: ‎01-03-2011
0 Kudos

Re: Amazon 7" Color Tablet $250

[ Edited ]

I think the limited info this report gives on the new Amazon color 7" ereader is great!  To me it indicates several huge mistakes that Amazon is making.  If anyone thought that B&N would have difficulty as a device maker, it looks like Amazon is about to find out they may not have lighting striking twice, once for the Kindle but maybe NOT for their new color, here why...

 

1st is the OS, let’s face it the IPad is a great device because it has good platform (hardware) complimented by LOTS of great apps on a solid OS, without the apps it is just nice hardware.  Further Apple has been playing this game longer than anyone, and with over a decade of device experience and enough customer feedback to write the manual on what makes a great device.  If you think Amazon has been paying attention think again, Amazon had the killer ereader for 3 years and did nothing important to improve on it, they were the leader, and allowed a down-n-almost-out competitor steal the ereader lead away.  So trying to follow the Apple lead of a closed OS built on a variant of Android plus convince App developers to get on board, well we have seen how difficult it is for B&N.  Amazon apparently believes that price and the Amazon name will again make Amazon's ereader the leader.   B&N's Nookcolor is built on a direct version of Android (not a fork) and allows Google to do the work developing newer and better versions.  Will there be an improved 2.3 Android or 3.0 Android that runs on the Nookcolor, we will have to see, but the potential is there.  That won't be true for Amazon's fork from the report it sounds like a completely closed system, and based on Amazon's history with the Kindle, after the initial offering don't expect too many improvements.  For those that love discounting the value of rooting and the possibilities rooting offers potential buyers, you are failing to understand what motivates people.  People usually have an idea of what they want to do with a device, but they always love having options to expand, this alone turned the NC from a ereader into a tablet with 2.2.  Reviewers jumped all over the rooting expanded feature set, this made the NC famous, it didn’t matter that a majority of owners would never use rooting but the option was available.  B&N would be stupid to close that door, let the geeks make the product even better and get all that free gorilla marketing.  We already know the tech/geek reviewers love this too.

 

Next, not one thing mentioned is a game changer for the new Amazon color ereader.  Yeah color tablet ereader is a game changer for Amazon, ok but thanks Amazon for trying to catch up, so whats new?  Yes Amazon will have video on demand, music to buy, and that will be huge, it certainly is for Apple.  However B&N should counter with apps that have Netflix, and other streaming media, it is a very solvable problem.  If the Amazon tablet is just another Nookcolor with some extra media available that will not be enough to attract new buyers instead it will be the Kindle faithful stepping up to color ereader buying Amazon's color product.  Of course millions of Kindle owners buying Amazon’s new color ereader would be significant sales, enough to make wall street and stock owners happy.

 

 Amazon has to convince all those tech reviewers that they did something significant, people read those reviews, Amazon has relied on those reviews because the Kindle was the status quo for ereaders and all the reviewers gave the Kindle the nod, mainly because there wasn't anything worth comparing the Kindle too.  That isn't true anymore, side by side comparisons will be made between the new Amazon color ereader, Nookcolor + Nookcolor2, and Ipad2, plus a dozen other tablets,  performance, value, features all will be weighed, based on the little info we have Amazon's new color 7" tablet/ereader is an also ran.  I think B&N has plenty to offer in the Nookcolor2 to remain the top color ereader/tablet.

 



Distinguished Bibliophile
deemure
Posts: 3,933
Registered: ‎12-28-2009
0 Kudos

Re: Amazon 7" Color Tablet $250

What would be a game changer is if netflix were available on a stock NC. And then, a comparison of the content available at amazon and netflix. Still and all, I don't care for the amazon model. Yes, for some CS has been great. I have had other experiences. But some will say that the kindle CS is different from standard amazon CS. That, if true is even worse. That aside, the idea of the cloud is great, but the question is their use of it. Ebook format, enhanced content, onboard video are all pluses for the NC, but no info on these things for amazon's device. As far as video, the ability to use an sd card is a major concern. I tend to use it for home videos and tutorials, something not likely to show up in amazon's store. And, I can't imagine uploading my home videos to their cloud just to watch on the device. This would then mean to watch I would need to be online. This makes no sense.
"I still believe in spite of everything that people are good at heart." Anne Frank.
Distinguished Bibliophile
roustabout
Posts: 3,669
Registered: ‎03-31-2011

Re: Amazon 7" Color Tablet $250

From what little we know about the Amazon device, their use of the cloud for reading material is going to look just like the current Kindle and Nook Color use of the cloud - your library is normally on your device.  When you need to reformat, you reregister and your paid content is available for redownload. 

 

There are some out-of-the-gate differences, though: 

 

Amazon's going to be able to sell internationally.  The current wifi-only Amazon customers are able to buy books in the UK.  I'm not sure how many countries Amazon's able to sell in on their wifi-only devices.  My impression, but I may well be wrong, is that only the 3g devices are currently able to shop anywhere. The wifi devices can shop in any country where Amazon accepts payment in a local currency. Currently, that seems to mean the entire EU because of the trade agreements within the EU. 

 

Amazon is already a major cloud infrastructure company, and they eat their own cooking.  Other cloud services Amazon will be able to offer will be video, music streaming without needing a local copy (via the Amazon music service) and perhaps online gaming. Also, access to files uploaded to your Amazon file locker.  (And those files are going to be used to root the new device in all likeliehood.) 

 

Out of the gate, Amazon will probably have thousands of available apps. The device will be closed, but the OS probably won't be, any more or less than stock Android is. 

 

I think it's important to understand what a fork means in an open source toolset.  What Amazon's almost certainly doing is continuing to use the Linux kernel that Google is using, which is a free open source Linux kernel.  With each update to the OS, Google is legally required to release the source of the kernel they're using (as Amazon will be.)  Amazon can actually dip back into the main Android stream at will if they like or need a given kernel enhancement.  If the power saving tweaks that BN is using are in the source code that BN is required to publish, Amazon will be using those as well.  The requirement is that they continue to publish their kernel as well.

 

Amazon controls its own app store, and Amazon has a big role in choosing the devices which can "see" whethere an app is available.  We've already seen this happen with Amazon withdrawing support for the Nook Color in many of the apps on their app store. (including, it seems, their store application itself, but I don't use their app store much, so I may well be do something wrong.)  Developers make some choices about what their apps require from an OS and a few are very restrictive about what devices can see their apps - but that's actually a pretty unusual situation.  Most apps in the Android market are available to any device, and Netflix is using a very weak device check (relying on the file build.propl to ensure that a device is on their compatibility list.) 

 

There are plenty of apps that will install on a device and fail to run.  This is why the Android market, at least, lets you try an app and if it won't run, uninstall for a full refund in 15 minutes.  I don't know how Amazon deals with incompatibility that wasn't spotted ahead of time by developers. 

 

I don't see Amazon deliberately breaking compatibility with Android.  I do see them only permitting their own app store to run on non-rooted device.  

 

On rooting:  Amazon may decide to verify /system and remove any non-stock files from it during the boot process, or take other aggressive anti-rooting countermeasures.  BN's chosen not to go that route, or it's not possible in android, or BN doesn't have the technical chops to do it.  (My thought is that it's a mix of all three.  Truly locked down Android phones are pretty uncommon.) 

 

I could see Amazon implementing strict enough controls that a rooted device would need to have an alternate ROM flashed to it, completely overwriting the native operating system, as the only option for rooting that persists across boot cycles. 

 

So there may well be a CM7 for Color Kindle, but nothing resembling autonooter or manual nooter. 

"no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution.
Wordsmith
doncr
Posts: 493
Registered: ‎12-29-2010
0 Kudos

Re: Amazon 7" Color Tablet $250


flyingtoastr wrote:


I have used The Daily (didn't care for the content - too much focus on celebrity crap), but it is about the same reading experience that you get with the new enhanced Magazines, in particular Time. So you'll have to explain to me why The Daily is the pinicle of the reading experience and the work that BN put into the enhanced magazine system is a waste of time that isn't improving the reading on an ereader.

The user exerperience of The Daily is far beyond what is offered with the enchanced TIME magazine.  I downloaded the latest issue of TIME last night and found the navigation clunky and not only lacking features compared to The Daily but also lacking "fit and finish".  I haven't seen the TIME mag app running on the iPad, but I suspect the Nook Color vresion is just a bad port of that version.

 

I can go into the details of each of the problems that I encountered with you in a PM if you're interested.  I don't want to go off on a tangent in this thread about why the enchanced TIME magainze issue needs a lot of work, but here's some of the shortcomings that I discovered last night:

 

  • No support for landscape orientation when reading articles (some material is "hard-coded" to landscape, which is worse).
  • The audio playback level is so low on the NC that you can't hear the videos.
  • The videos playback full-screen at a different landscape orientation than other landscape oriented content.
  • Video playback occurs via a separately launched video player app which means it can't play within the page and takes 5+ seconds of black screen before video appears (and will cause an error and won't play at all if you tap the black screen before it loads).
  • No support for having article content read to you.
  • No way to tell which articles you've read and those that you haven't.
  • No support for social media (sending links to articles to Facebook/Twitter) or e-mailing articles.
  • No support for archiving articles.
  • No support for crosswords/games.
  • No support for animated graphics or 360 deg. photos. 
  • No configurable user settings.
  • TIME is $2.99/mo for 2 issues - The Daily is $3.96/mo for 30 issues.

 

As I navigated through the pages and content of the TIME magazine issue that I downloaded last night I had a hard time thinking how anyone could compare this to The Daily and claim that they offer the same user experience.  

 

Please understand that I'm not an Apple or The Daily fanboy.  I like my Nook Color.  I just wish that BN would make it a priority to make the NC a state of the art eReader.  There's no technical reason (other than maybe the substandard audio output) why the NC couldn't do the things that I've listed above for its enhanced magazine offerings.  They just don't seem to care enough to do it.  Perhaps Amazon will do a better job with enhanced content on their new Kindle Color and put a fire under BN's rear end to do the same.  I hope that's the case as I'm willing to spend money for enhanced content on my NC, but not if it looks like the TIME magazine issue that I downloaded last night.

 

 

Distinguished Bibliophile
roustabout
Posts: 3,669
Registered: ‎03-31-2011

Re: Amazon 7" Color Tablet $250

In Time on the NC swank new video player

 

"The videos playback full-screen at a different landscape orientation than other landscape oriented content."

 

Epic Win! 

 

"No support for having article content read to you"

 

This is actually a feature.  No one wants the point driven further home that US newsweeklies are pitched at a learn-to-read level. 

"no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution.
Inspired Bibliophile
FrogAlum
Posts: 3,425
Registered: ‎12-25-2009

Re: Amazon 7" Color Tablet $250

Honestly, I'm having a hard time figuring out why anyone would purchase a "tablet" from either BN or Amazon and I say that as a NC owner...

 

With the way Android tablets are dropping in price, it makes more sense to buy something that is "open" instead of the closed systems that BN and Amazon are selling.  Shoot, you get an open system, access to the big markets and a better reading experience to boot!  The Nook app is lightyears better than the NC.

 

The only possible + to the new Kindle would be the 3G, if that is as open as it has been in the past, allowing browsing and streaming, etc.  The lack of an SD card option would really kill it for me though.

 

It's smart of them to launch with the 7", I have both a Xoom and an HP Touchpad and I really dislike reading on the larger footprint and I bet most current Kindle owners would feel the same.

Nallia
Posts: 4,758
Topics: 125
Kudos: 3,238
Registered: ‎02-15-2010
0 Kudos

Re: Amazon 7" Color Tablet $250

For me it's the fact that I don't read anything on my NC but magazines, and I'm fine without the enhanced magazines that were released with 1.3.  I almost never read books on it because I vastly prefer e-ink for that.  I was holding on to it because of the NOOK Kids Read to Me ebooks, but my kids can live without them since B&N seems to believe that the ony people who deserve to own and read them are those with a NC or an iPad.  At this point, I would rather have an actual tablet.  But I got a new, very expensive, desktop replacement laptop this year, so a tablet will probably have to wait until at least the end of the year.  My husband doesn't understand my device obsession.  :smileywink: