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nkr
Frequent Contributor
nkr
Posts: 82
Registered: ‎01-04-2010

B&N must be proud

[ Edited ]

 

 

Folks, I know this is going to Pi$$ some people off, but step back and think about this....

 

B&N has built such a grand product that a huge number of their customers consider so inadequate that they have to hack it to bring it up to a level that they consider satisfactory.

 

Not only do said customers root (hack) the NookColor.....they publicly post about it on the B&N discussion boards!  They even post links to hacker websites giving NookColor owners directions on how to hack their eReaders!

 

Does anyone else find this absolutely amazing that B&N would host a website that allows this information to be openly dispensed to their current and potential customers?

 

All new customers who wander over to this board can see these threads on the first page:

"A Skeptic is Now a Root Believer"

"Rooting..to Root or not?

"Took the 'root' plunge"

 

As a potential customer, those threads certainly wouldn't inspire me to fork over $250 for a device if current owners thought it was such a poorly designed/supported device that I had to resort to hacking.....hacking that voids the warranty, fer Pete's sake!! 

 

So, ya think that B&N believes owners of 'rooted' NookColors will buy apps from the B&N store....whenever it finally gets here?   Huh......ya think?  

 

Amazing.  

 

Are they CLUELESS?

 

Now I know why B&N is in financial trouble......what a business model!

 

Let's see if B&N pulls any of those 'rooting' threads.  If not, y'all will know that there is no hope of an app store anytime soon. <sigh>  But then, they might have planned this all along....never intending to provide that service.  They just wanted to sell hardware.

Distinguished Correspondent
Ohbjuan
Posts: 136
Registered: ‎01-14-2011

Re: B&N must be proud

[ Edited ]

I purchased my Nookcolor to be an ereader. I chose the Nookcolor over a Kindle because I read a lot at night and wanted a backlit screen. I got what I paid for as far as I am concerned. And as one poster pointed out yesterday the number of people who post here is very small to the number of Nookcolor owners.

 

All the 'rooters' have shown is the potential of the Nookcolor, and in my  mind doesn't knock it at all. And B&N said they would have an upgrade sometime in Q1 2011. Well, it is still sometime in Q1 of 2011. I think many of the people who bought and then rooted their Nookcolor were hoping to get a bargain iPad and probably didn't buy it to actually read on very much.

 

B&N never advertised the Nookcolor as an alternative to the iPad or any other tablet. I think the term they use is dedication ereader. Yes my Nookcolor cost about $100 more than the cheapest Kindle, but then I would have had to purchase a light for it, and a good light is about $50. And I already have the ability to surf the web now with my Nookcolor. I'm sure at some point they will release the update and the Nookcolor will be an even better reader than a Kindle when they do. No it will NEVER be an iPad, but it is also about half the price.

 

People have a tendency to go to boards like this when they are unsatisfied, but people who are satisfied usually don't bother. That is why there are a lot of people complaining here. I for one am very happy with my Nookcolor, and I believe there are a lot more folks just like me posting here.

Frequent Contributor
ridgrnr
Posts: 43
Registered: ‎12-19-2010
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Re: B&N must be proud

I bought my NC as an e-reader the first week it was out. In addition to reading, I also enjoy "computing." Initially, I had no knowledge of rooting, but as I learned more (isn't that part of what reading is all about?) and the roots improved, there came a point where it was ridiculous not to give it a try. The NC is a very unique device and there are a lot of very knowledgeable people who think the developers were either planning on a full tablet initially or deliberately released it as rootable. In any case, it's not illegal to root, B&N has not issued any warnings and since I paid for it, it's mine to do with as I please. I did wait until the froyo SD card/stock switchable with removal card option was viable as when B&N updates to something approaching rooted, I can switch back to stock. In the meantime I'm able to enjoy an e-reader/tablet that is at least equal to, if not better than anything currently on the market, for a fraction of the price. And IMHO, I think B&N is crazy like a fox. As was pointed out, most owners do not frequent this board and out of the million plus NCs sold, my guess is at least several 100 thousand were bought solely because it can be rooted!

Distinguished Correspondent
Ohbjuan
Posts: 136
Registered: ‎01-14-2011

Re: B&N must be proud

I have nothing against rooting, and actually plan to purchase an SD card this weekend for the removal card option to check out what all the fuss is about. And I'm guessing B&N doesn't care why you purchased your Nookcolor as long as they make the sale. And they also don't have to worry about a warranty on a rooted Nookcolor as well, which is better for them if something goes wrong with the unit.

Frequent Contributor
justsayyes
Posts: 143
Registered: ‎01-13-2011
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Re: B&N must be proud

Actually, I had this discussion with some of the product managers at my company and we came up with a theory about the NC's product positioning and it goes something like this:

 

Overall Postion

Niched product that straddles the non-technical reader market and technical tablet user

 

Specific Niche

1. "readers" that still value brick & mortar stores that find eReaders as an additive reading mechanism

2. Tablet users that do not embrace closed ecosystems

3. Power tech users that serve as market influencers for non-technical people

 

Product Brief

7" widescreen tablet for book reading with very high quality screen and build quality, powerful enough processing speed to facilitate a very good user experience for reading and a 'good enough' user experience for tablet functions.  Must support current generation Android OS through two point revisions.  Must support full restore.

 

It's possible that B&N intentionally overbuilt an eReader and gave it a "feature" of very poor software locks.  The reason was to create a great value product for hard core readers, that was easy enough to hack to attract a large hard core tech market that would embrace the product to realize the full potential of the underlying hardware. I've read often enough on XDA developers that someone bought their wife/kid/husband an NC for reading and one for themselves to muck with.

 

This board is a pretty good example of that - lots of 'readers' that cleary don't want/need to understand the ins and outs of the underlying s/w and h/w; lots of techies that want to play with decent enough hardware; and lots of folks that can influence their friends and relatives.

 

So I think perhaps the NC is MEANT to challenge the use case of each targeted customer type, blur each use case's edges and seed the market for their next generation product.

nkr
Frequent Contributor
nkr
Posts: 82
Registered: ‎01-04-2010
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Re: B&N must be proud

 


Ohbjuan wrote:

 

 

All the 'rooters' have shown is the potential of the Nookcolor, and in my  mind doesn't knock it at all. And B&N said they would have an upgrade sometime in Q1 2011. Well, it is still sometime in Q1 of 2011. I think many of the people who bought and then rooted their Nookcolor were hoping to get a bargain iPad and probably didn't buy it to actually read on very much.

 

 

Good point.  I suppose those who are dissatisfied with their NookColor did have higher expectations and rooting allows them to access features they have given up on B&N providing any time soon.....or perhaps they enjoy the challenge.  



 

B&N never advertised the Nookcolor as an alternative to the iPad or any other tablet. I think the term they use is dedication ereader. Yes my Nookcolor cost about $100 more than the cheapest Kindle, but then I would have had to purchase a light for it, and a good light is about $50. And I already have the ability to surf the web now with my Nookcolor. I'm sure at some point they will release the update and the Nookcolor will be an even better reader than a Kindle when they do. No it will NEVER be an iPad, but it is also about half the price.

 

People have a tendency to go to boards like this when they are unsatisfied, but people who are satisfied usually don't bother. That is why there are a lot of people complaining here. I for one am very happy with my Nookcolor, and I believe there are a lot more folks just like me posting here.

 

 

 

B&N should be grateful that satisfied customers, such as you, post on their boards. I don't understand why they would allow all the threads on rooting.  

 

To me, that's an admission that their product is so unsatisfactory that they allow customers to exchange information on how to hack the system.  While allowing this information on their discussion boards, they will then void the warranty if a customer follows those instructions and 'bricks' their device.

 

I have never seen a warning from board moderators about the perils of rooting...have you?

 



 

nkr
Frequent Contributor
nkr
Posts: 82
Registered: ‎01-04-2010
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Re: B&N must be proud

 


ridgrnr wrote:

 

......The NC is a very unique device and there are a lot of very knowledgeable people who think the developers were either planning on a full tablet initially or deliberately released it as rootable. In any case, it's not illegal to root, B&N has not issued any warnings and since I paid for it, it's mine to do with as I please.........And IMHO, I think B&N is crazy like a fox. As was pointed out, most owners do not frequent this board and out of the million plus NCs sold, my guess is at least several 100 thousand were bought solely because it can be rooted!


Interesting......you may be right on target!


 

nkr
Frequent Contributor
nkr
Posts: 82
Registered: ‎01-04-2010
0 Kudos

Re: B&N must be proud

 


Ohbjuan wrote:

I have nothing against rooting, and actually plan to purchase an SD card this weekend for the removal card option to check out what all the fuss is about. And I'm guessing B&N doesn't care why you purchased your Nookcolor as long as they make the sale. And they also don't have to worry about a warranty on a rooted Nookcolor as well, which is better for them if something goes wrong with the unit.


 

Selling just the hardware and not fooling with service had crossed my mind.  They aren't known for their customer service, so this might have been their angle all along.

nkr
Frequent Contributor
nkr
Posts: 82
Registered: ‎01-04-2010
0 Kudos

Re: B&N must be proud

 


justsayyes wrote:

Actually, I had this discussion with some of the product managers at my company and we came up with a theory about the NC's product positioning and it goes something like this:

 

Overall Postion

Niched product that straddles the non-technical reader market and technical tablet user

 

Specific Niche

1. "readers" that still value brick & mortar stores that find eReaders as an additive reading mechanism

2. Tablet users that do not embrace closed ecosystems

3. Power tech users that serve as market influencers for non-technical people

 

Product Brief

7" widescreen tablet for book reading with very high quality screen and build quality, powerful enough processing speed to facilitate a very good user experience for reading and a 'good enough' user experience for tablet functions.  Must support current generation Android OS through two point revisions.  Must support full restore.

 

It's possible that B&N intentionally overbuilt an eReader and gave it a "feature" of very poor software locks.  The reason was to create a great value product for hard core readers, that was easy enough to hack to attract a large hard core tech market that would embrace the product to realize the full potential of the underlying hardware. I've read often enough on XDA developers that someone bought their wife/kid/husband an NC for reading and one for themselves to muck with.

 

This board is a pretty good example of that - lots of 'readers' that cleary don't want/need to understand the ins and outs of the underlying s/w and h/w; lots of techies that want to play with decent enough hardware; and lots of folks that can influence their friends and relatives.

 

So I think perhaps the NC is MEANT to challenge the use case of each targeted customer type, blur each use case's edges and seed the market for their next generation product.


 

I enjoyed reading this analysis - very much.  It will be interesting to see what features the next generation NC has.

 

The 'seeding the market' strategy has worked well for Apple.  

Inspired Bibliophile
Desert_Brat
Posts: 1,734
Registered: ‎12-14-2010
0 Kudos

Re: B&N must be proud

[ Edited ]

@nkr

 

Your argument would be persuasive were it not for the fact that the nook color is not the only thing people try to "improve." There are quite a few out there who love to see if they can make a new device run "better" or do something different.

 

Recall all the jailbreaking of the iPhones. With each generation of the product, it's a matter of days before somebody comes out with a program to unlock something new. Most people use their phones just the way they are, but others like to play and they do so knowing that they risk turning their expensive phone into a brick.

 

For years, people have been looking for Easter eggs in game programs, it's a fun thing to do and something that isn't part of the product description or marketing.

 

So I have to wonder if this may not have been a little intentional on the nook color, especially by calling it a "reader's tablet." I think just the word "tablet" in itself is enough to spark the interest of the hacking world. And it also serves as a selling point to those who want to try their hand at it and don't necessarily buy the unit for it's reading ability. Either way, it's a unit sold.

 

I don't have a problem with people rooting their nooks, mine isn't (yet), but I like the way it works so far. Will just have to see what the new update brings because there are certain apps I would like to have on it. I want to see the calendar and e-mail apps like what are on my iTouch (you specify what calendar and e-mail to check); a notepad, address book and to-do list;  a decent pdf reader; and a mobile style Open Office so I can work on documents and spreadsheets instead of just being able to look at them.

 

If the app store is lousy, then I'll probably take a look at learning how to do a root, even if I have to get private tutoring. :smileywink:

A lifelong reader, now may my life be long enough to catch up on my reading!
Wordsmith
dparrothead1
Posts: 369
Registered: ‎02-04-2011

Re: B&N must be proud

nkr, the NC is a fantastic product straight out of the box.

 

People don't root the NC because they are dissatified, they root because of what it can become!!! And I believe that B&N doesn't really care if you root or not as long as you buy books from them. 

 

Now, I only use my android phone to make phone calls and sometimes I use the 3g function when I am not near a wifi hot spot.  I am 65 and let me tell you......the 7" screen is much easier to use than than my 4" phone!!!!

 

As far as the warranty is concerned, you just reset back to stock and you're good to go.  

Life is not about weathering the storms, it's about learning to dance in the rain!

It's a semi-true story!
Inspired Contributor
Serolf_Divad
Posts: 283
Registered: ‎02-28-2011

Re: B&N must be proud

l really do think that people come to these kinds of forums and assume that, because there's so much talk of "rooting" here, most of B&N's customers are out rooting (or trying to figure out how) their Nook Colors. But really, this board represents a tiny minority of Nook Color owners. Xda-developers represents a tiny minority of Nook Color owners. The fact that we're here at all is testament to our curiosity about the machine's capabilities (and in some cases, our impatience as we wait for B&N to open an App Store). And honestly, even on this board I see just as many people insiting that they bought the NC for reading and have no intention to root as I do people who say they'll root as soon as they figure out how.

Distinguished Scribe
richardwrite25
Posts: 859
Registered: ‎03-12-2011

Re: B&N must be proud

[ Edited ]

A) The fact that B&N allows these discussions shows that they are not threatened by free speech. They should be commended for that.

 

B) The fact that I rooted the NC has nothing at all to do with me finding it inadequate.  It's a marvelous device as-is, and does all of the things that I wanted it for.  The fact that, after I bought it, I discovered that it has even more potential than I'd thought does not mean I found it worth less than the $250 that was paid for it before I rooted it.  Think of it this way:  What if you bought a new house because you felt it was absolutely gorgeous, in a perfect neighborhood, and yet at a good price.  What if, after you moved in, you learned that there is a million dollars buried in the basement.  If you decide to dig it up, does that mean that you felt the house was inadequate without that million?  Or does it just mean if some extra value is available, you want it, too?

 

C) I have noticed that lately, B&N has taken to marketing the NC as "The Reader's Tablet," as if they now know that it's not just an e-reader, but a genuine tablet, as well.

 

D) This week, after my free trial subscription to Newsweek runs out, and AFTER I've rooted my NC, I plan to get a paid subscription.  I'll also continue buying books from B&N, because the NC makes it so painless to do so.

 

E) If you find the NC "inadequate," then there must not be an e-reader on the market that you consider "adequate."

Frequent Contributor
Foot
Posts: 27
Registered: ‎02-27-2010

Re: B&N must be proud

So what a few people are rooting their nookcolors. I don't see why you are making such a big deal

about it. What stake do you have in it anyway?

 

My nookcolor is rooted and I will buy apps from the B&N nookcolor store when it is released. I

believe in supporting software development paying for usefull applications. 

 

My cellphone is running Android, it is rooted and I buy apps all of the time. Rooting is not evil. I

turned a $250 color ereader into a kicka$$ tablet.

 

You wrote, "poorly designed/supported device" Certainly your opinion and I don't think one that is shared by the vast majority of people that visit this forum.

Distinguished Scribe
richardwrite25
Posts: 859
Registered: ‎03-12-2011
0 Kudos

Re: B&N must be proud

>>You wrote, "poorly designed/supported device" Certainly your opinion and I don't think one that is shared by the vast majority of people that visit this forum.<<

 

Also not shared by the tech media, since I've yet to read a negative review of the Nook Color.

Inspired Correspondent
RodneyJT
Posts: 165
Registered: ‎05-01-2010
0 Kudos

Re: B&N must be proud

Like others mentioned I don't think the Nookcolor is being rooted because of dissatisfaction with the device. It's because of curiosity and impatiance. 

 

The Nookcolor is great at what I bought it for. Reading books and browsing the web. But I'm impatient and want more and it's also a great handheld computing device. So I root it.

 

Like people have done with the Microsoft Kinect they are doing with the Nookcolor. Unlocking and discovering it's potentials. Maybe Barnes and Noble will take the Microsoft route and encourage it seeing how well it does.

Wordsmith
Serendip
Posts: 618
Registered: ‎02-11-2011

Re: B&N must be proud

Hmmm... so by this reasoning, Pepperidge Farm should stop selling bread, because people rarely eat it plain and typically cover it with something?

 

Barilla is laughable because they have a website with hundreds of recipes, all which clerarly point to admitting that one should do SOMETHING with pasta in addition to cooking, before eating it, and not only that, they have recipes on each box?

 

The iPad 2 was the BIG announcement two weeks ago, it was what all the techies were waiting to hear. And what happens after the announcement... scores of articles comparing it to the (rooted) NC.  Same with comparisons to the Galaxy Tab and Xoom. B&N is getting a ton of publicity, and who knows how many NC sales, solely because it CAN be rooted. They sold through just shy of 11,000 NCs on ebay in what... five days?

 

Though i was surprised that rooting discussions are allowed here, seems to me it IS in B&Ns best interest to turn a blind eye, and they'd be foolish to stop it.

 

They didn't create a "broken" tablet... they created a user-upgradeable ereader. Quite brilliant, actually. They aren't officially competing with and marketing against tablets, simply ereaders. And they are reaping the benefits all the way to the bank.

 

 

Frequent Contributor
cindylee60
Posts: 261
Registered: ‎12-19-2010
0 Kudos

Re: B&N must be proud

[ Edited ]

Open Source = poorly designed

 

yes, that does seem to be the Apple way of looking at things....

Inspired Wordsmith
donc13
Posts: 1,064
Registered: ‎04-22-2010
0 Kudos

Re: B&N must be proud

Have you ever bought a computer, and never put more software on it than what came on it from the manufacturer?   That's what you're asking NC owners to do.    B&N should offer NO help...and I think the official rules here...prohibit hacking threads....but without dedicating resources to moderate this forum.....pretty much anything goes.

 

The voiding warranty issue is a non-issue.   yes, if you send in a NC that is acting strange and is  rooted, you should not expect B&N to "fix" it under warranty.     But if you put it back to stock, "factory fresh" so to speak, and it still acts up....that acting up is not the cause of the software, but rather the hardware, and that IS warranted.

 

 

---------
Don
Inspired Scribe
orb9220
Posts: 1,199
Registered: ‎06-16-2010

Re: B&N must be proud

I Love this it's All either Black or White without experiencing the grays.

And thinking One way is right and another way is wrong. As this displays a basic flaw of human nature that has caused many wars of religions,countries and ideologies.

 

Why persons think their way of thinking is the only right way. And condem those that don't agree.

 

First the NC isn't a perfect device. And has many missing reader features. Like pdf's handling is appaling. No bookmarks? No Highlighting? No goto page? Come on how can you say you handle pdf's when missing basic features. And B&N woun't even use the stock reader they give us. They use adobe that gives them that feature. That's right why the need for two different pdf readers?

 

How about reading now icon. Many times it forgets where you are. Or limited shelves and still no sorting on metadata. The list goes on and on. And that is just for reader functions. How about the less functioning web browser? Dolphin HD browser blows it out of the water. Or adding a better soft keyboard that gives you recent words as you type. Better video codec support. Choice of different readers to customize to your style and needs. Complaints about B&N book not available or priced to high. No problem install the Kindle reader. Guess what now have choices and open up fair competition between websites. And give you the individual the power to chose.

 

As to the statement of "Well yes but they are going to fix that" or "Maybe they will address that issue" in a firmware upgrade with no word if they are or when. Sorry that is not good enough for me. If they won't fix it or even give me an inkling as to their intention of fixing it. Then sorry I guess I will have to take control of the device and fix it myself.

 

And no rooting Does Not void the warranty! How can it?  It's Software based and I can reset my nook back to factory fresh. So how could they void my warranty? Or even know I had it rooted at one time. They don't. Just mouthing generic standard operating procedure to cover themselves. And not to give the impression of supporting rooting from the company side.

 

 

 

"All I Know is...Last Night the Tele-Tubbies came out of the wall and Held Me Down while they put Devices in my Head!"
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