Since 1997, you’ve been coming to BarnesandNoble.com to discuss everything from Stephen King to writing to Harry Potter. You’ve made our site more than a place to discover your next book: you’ve made it a community. But like all things internet, BN.com is growing and changing. We've said goodbye to our community message boards—but that doesn’t mean we won’t still be a place for adventurous readers to connect and discover.

Now, you can explore the most exciting new titles (and remember the classics) at the Barnes & Noble Book Blog. Check out conversations with authors like Jeff VanderMeer and Gary Shteyngart at the B&N Review, and browse write-ups of the best in literary fiction. Come to our Facebook page to weigh in on what it means to be a book nerd. Browse digital deals on the NOOK blog, tweet about books with us,or self-publish your latest novella with NOOK Press. And for those of you looking for support for your NOOK, the NOOK Support Forums will still be here.

We will continue to provide you with books that make you turn pages well past midnight, discover new worlds, and reunite with old friends. And we hope that you’ll continue to tell us how you’re doing, what you’re reading, and what books mean to you.

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Inspired Contributor
crossword_lover
Posts: 36
Registered: ‎04-26-2011

Re: Dear Big Brother / B & N:

 


richardwrite25 wrote:

 


ErikCudd wrote:

To those of you who think this is overreaction, everyone has their opinion. Why not let those of us who don't wish to have products forced on us have our opinion too?

 

We bought the device, and if we wish to choose what gets downloaded to it, it is our right.

 

I am taking mine back today and getting my money back thank you very much, simly because of this very issue.

 


You must be a treat to serve at restaurants.  "I didn't order this extra piece of pie that you're giving me free, so I'll never eat here again!"  But please do take your Nook back.  I guarantee you, far MORE people would have returned theirs if B&N had failed to include the user manuals that you feel are so bothersome.

 


In your restaurant example, he wouldn't have to carry the pie with him forever, with no ability to get rid of it, even though he never asked for it. Also, the only bothersome part about the manuals, and the forced cookbook, is the fact that they cannot be deleted or removed in any way.

 

Inspired Contributor
crossword_lover
Posts: 36
Registered: ‎04-26-2011

Re: Dear Big Brother / B & N:

 


MaluhiaKana wrote:

I see the B&N apologists are out in force today. I think the OP was arguing a matter of principle. True, in the grand scheme of things, it's not that big of a deal to have this item of our library. I actually have no problems with the device guides being on the Nook. Heck, I didn't know that they did this when I bought the Nook and had planned to put the guides on myself.

 

But when ad-ware begins to creep into a device such as this, it should come as no surprise that it bothers some. The analogy to Java and Adobe (Reader?) is a poor one. With those programs and many others, you can choose not to install toolbars, etc., at the time of setup. In this case, we were given no choice.


Again, it's the principle of the matter.

 

I find it rather amusing how patronizing and condescending certain members of this forum are when someone dares criticize B&N and their precious "babies". They often exhibit the same childish behavior they rail against.


Bravo!

 

Distinguished Wordsmith
PeterDe
Posts: 464
Registered: ‎04-20-2010

Re: Dear Big Brother / B & N:

I wonder if Good Housekeeping pays to have their name plastered on every single nookcolor?
Some people can't see the forest for the trees!

4 Nook Household, 2 NOOKs, 2 NOOKcolors
Distinguished Bibliophile
deemure
Posts: 3,933
Registered: ‎12-28-2009

Re: Dear Big Brother / B & N:

[ Edited ]

Again to the OP and anyone else here, you agreed to the TOS so Barnes and Noble has done nothing without your permission.  You also have no idea that the cookbook may only be there temporarily as an example (because people wanted to see this particular sample) of the new cookbooks.  This particular file was at one time available for download and people wanted it, so it may be that BN got multiple requests to see it.

 

Yes, it would be great to be able to remove it.  I've never said otherwise.  But it is neither intrusive nor nefarious nor crippling nor abusive nor does it rise to some form of adware.

 

The user guides are another thing and there is no reason they have to allow you to remove them. 

 

People are acting like someone is poking them in the eye with a needle. 

 

If you want me to get all worked up over this and accuse BN of kicking my dog and destroying my life, I'm not going to do it.  If in your book that makes me some sort of BN apologist or lover or some such, so be it.  I prefer the term realist.

"I still believe in spite of everything that people are good at heart." Anne Frank.
Distinguished Correspondent
TNTLamb
Posts: 291
Registered: ‎03-26-2011
0 Kudos

Re: Dear Big Brother / B & N:

Its not BN who is Big Brother or even that fruit sounding company. Walmart however could be. As the largest user of rfid for inventory control, its intresting the first placethey started using these chips was in their undeware. Concievably anyone wearing underware from WAlmart could be tracked. Walmart has gone so far as to even release a press sratement to say they won't do that......
There are 293 ways to make changes for a dollar.... No wonder we see things differently
Distinguished Bibliophile
roustabout
Posts: 3,687
Registered: ‎03-31-2011
0 Kudos

BN: Cookbook leads to tinkering for the DRM win!

[ Edited ]

Big brother's a silly way to put it, yes.

 

Still, since I'm running rooted, I thought I'd take a run at pulling it. 

 

My device is not currently registered with BN, as I'm testing 1.2 before I commit to it. 

 

The set of books being written into the firmware is a brilliant move.  I was, finally, able to remove them.  At first, it didn't look as if they were dead, but finally they did evaporate.  I shelled into the unit and started doing find . | grep ookboo or somesuch (I don't remember the string I was using.  I needed to kill the epubs and all the thumbnails tied to them.  And then left everything to "settle" for a couple of hours.) 

 

Along the way, by providing a constance source of irritation every time the library is opened, BN's pretty much engraved an invitation to users to poke around the library to see if things can be removed. 

 

Unsurprisingly, removal is hard, but I accidentally ran across a way to access DRM locked content on this unregistered device. 

 

So:  BN can not currently reset my device, since it's not talking to them. 

 

And yet I'm reading paid content on it.   Ruh-roh. 

 

I don't plan to share the info, but I am almost certainly not the first person to run into this, and I will not be the last.  I am not 100% whether the vulnerability stems from your library app (best case, as you control it and it costs $250 to play with) or from your Nook Android app (worst case, since it probably has much wider distribution and a lower barrier to entry.)  I'm not sure how easy or hard it would be to leverage this, as I stumbled upon it just now. 

 

If someone from BN wants to PM me for more detail, that's fine.  I will open the conversation via a verifiable BN phone # that I can call them at.

"no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution.
Inspired Correspondent
pen_name19
Posts: 114
Registered: ‎12-29-2010

Re: Dear Big Brother / B & N:


crossword_lover wrote:

richardwrite25 wrote:

And while we're at it, how about all those people who force user's manuals on us when we buy new products?  What tyrants!


The normal owner's manual of which you speak is able to be discarded. My complaint with B & N's permanently attached ones, plus their new item, a cookbook, permanently stored on my device without my permission.


  Uh... your permission? (Just noticed someone else also posted this same comment:) Did ya read the Terms of Service when ya bought/registered your device? You did -- give them -- your -- permission.
  On a separate issue: The comparison w/ Adobe and Java updates is poor, but for an entirely different reason: W/ a PC/Mac/whatever, for the majority of people, they own their device, and Adobe/Java are neither made by the device-maker, nor covered by their TOSs. Perhaps a better comparison (haven't really thought thru this example, maybe it's worse): If you run Microsoft Windows on your device, and you want to delete-from-disk IE (or the taskbar, or Explorer), and Windows won't let you (or won't run if you do). Ok, a very bad example, since deleting the cookbook won't make the NC unusable (knock wood), but you get the idea. It's getting late for me to still think straight. (Iambic?) (On a separate issue: Big Brother? I prefer Amazing Race.)
  "OMG! Windows comes w/ tutorials and help on disk! How DARE they use up 0.01% of MY disk space w/ THEIR crap! Never mind I can ignore it -- it's the principle -- Big Bill is 1984ing us all!"
  On a separate issue: "OMG! The NC has a CROSSWORD app! I don't want my memory used up by a crossword app! AND I CAN'T DELETE IT! Big Brother! Big Brother! 1984! 1984! (And also in addition too this just goes to show that BN has absolutely no business sense and Amazon is so much better than them and the about-to-be-released Kindle tablet will definitely bankrupt BN since BN has exactly one and only one product/business-line which is designing and building e-reader hardware and software they do absolutely nothing else and they're totally incompetent computer makers and can't learn from their mistakes which are legion and can't possibly compete against computer makers like Apple.)"
Contributor
Pajamasan
Posts: 12
Registered: ‎04-19-2011

Re: Dear Big Brother / B & N:

I have an idea of what will make you forget about the added extras that you can't get rid of no matter how hard you try. read a book...:smileysurprised: thats why ya bought this device to begin with right?

verb my noun
Distinguished Scribe
normysmom
Posts: 635
Registered: ‎03-19-2011

Re: Dear Big Brother / B & N:

Wait...there is a free sample of a cookbook? COOL...wait, where is it...my library...oh, there it is...that was so obtrusively displayed...I had to search through all my books to find it...I expected it to be stickied to the top or something based on all the chatter. Wait...I can shelve my books as I please so that I never have to see any book that I don't wish to view daily...just don't shelve it. Sorry if I seem thick, but not getting the big deal here...not worth getting so worked up over from either side...not enough to be snarky and all each names and all. USE the shelves feature and this issue can be buried.
Nothing like a fire, a cat and a good Nook!
Distinguished Correspondent
feltbettor
Posts: 65
Registered: ‎12-18-2010

Re: Dear Big Brother / B & N:

Stop. Just stop. If you find yourself cruising through the forum and read a subject heading that sounds interesting by all means read the OP. But for the love of god it's not your fight. Stop being the martyr. Stop belittling the OP then come back angry trying to defend the party line later.

 

If the OP want to get an irritating situation off his chest, let him. It's not even like you disagree with him. You only disagree with the way he's saying it. One person wanted to emphasize his displeasure with not being able to organize his collection to his satisfaction and you all mocked him. 

 

And now this TOS arguement is just precious. Wonderfull trump card whenever you need it. Clever. Why stop there? Why not the "root it if you don't like it" defense? Or the "B&N didn't force you to buy the NC" arguement? Truth is....it doesn't matter what you all think. To a business....all that matters is what the customer thinks. And he wants B&N to know what he thinks.

 

We get it Deemure....you don't like anyone talking trash about your little buddy. WE GET IT! But hey baby.....give some other people a chance to pontificate their feelings for your little buddy. Our feelings are just as important as yours. And we promise if we see you write about a pet peeve of yours.....we won't jump down your throat and sneer at you. Will we fellas?

 

Learn the words, "to each their own" and try using them instead of attacking everyone different than you next time.

 

"Now remember, what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas... Except herpes, that s*** will come back with you." - Sid Garner
Distinguished Bibliophile
deemure
Posts: 3,933
Registered: ‎12-28-2009

Re: Dear Big Brother / B & N:

 


feltbettor wrote:

We get it Deemure....you don't like anyone talking trash about your little buddy. WE GET IT! But hey baby.....give some other people a chance to pontificate their feelings for your little buddy. Our feelings are just as important as yours. And we promise if we see you write about a pet peeve of yours.....we won't jump down your throat and sneer at you. Will we fellas?

 

Learn the words, "to each their own" and try using them instead of attacking everyone different than you next time.

 


Just as you say or indicate the OP has the right to his opinion, so do I.  And if I use facts to back it up, you begin the personal attacks.  Yes, I attacked the choice of words in the topic.  It makes people read it because they want to find out what awful thing BN has done and if it affects them.  Especially in the wake of such things as the Sony/PS3 and Apple tracking debacles.
For the millionth time, when BN errs I am one of the first to admit it.  I'm not blind to their mistakes, but when a poster is being what I consider irrational and trying to inflame others, I will speak to it.  I always do so with facts.
And if you don't like the TOS argument, well that's too bad.  It's there for a reason.  It exists.  You agreed to it.  You don't like the 3 oh so offensive things put on the NC.  Oh well, then say you don't like it.  But to compare it to some version of mind and life control is absolutely, patently ridiculous.
I don't care what you think of me personally, but I prefer that people with real issues get help here than people whining for the sake of whining.  Do they have a right to whine?  Yes.  Do they sometimes have valid points?  Sure.  But, I have often found that the more outlandish the topic subject is, the less valid the point contained within.
And for the record, this type of post is my pet peeve.  Just because I didn't state it as such doesn't change this fact, but you have jumped down my throat every single time I have tried to point out that these books are not such a horrific, lifechanging, mind altering event.  And again they were not put there without your permission any more than the whole operating system was.  TOS aren't just formalities.

 

"I still believe in spite of everything that people are good at heart." Anne Frank.
Correspondent
Prewittboy
Posts: 82
Registered: ‎04-16-2011

Re: Dear Big Brother / B & N:

Wow... people just can't be happy with anything! It's was a free update with extra's added in. there isnt any software company out there that doesnt push extras. Deal with it ramove it from your home page and skip over it when you scroll thru ur library.

Distinguished Correspondent
TaterFink
Posts: 117
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
0 Kudos

Re: Dear Big Brother / B & N:

Yeah!  Go Get 'Em!  Not only THAT!  They forced a comic book onto my NC AND made me pay for it!  It downloaded without my knowledge and when I found it, they said they can't refund for a product that has already downloaded.  Well, I didn't know they were downloading it till it was already downloaded.  Talk about being caught between a rock and a hard spot.  I didn't stand a chance! 

motorcyclists thought of the day - never put your earplugs in the same pocket with your jellybeans!
Inspired Correspondent
alporks
Posts: 102
Registered: ‎04-17-2011

Re: Dear Big Brother / B & N:


normysmom wrote:
Wait...there is a free sample of a cookbook? COOL...wait, where is it...my library...oh, there it is...that was so obtrusively displayed...I had to search through all my books to find it...I expected it to be stickied to the top or something based on all the chatter. Wait...I can shelve my books as I please so that I never have to see any book that I don't wish to view daily...just don't shelve it. Sorry if I seem thick, but not getting the big deal here...not worth getting so worked up over from either side...not enough to be snarky and all each names and all. USE the shelves feature and this issue can be buried.
I agree, create a shelf called Z so it stays at the bottom and put the items you don't want to see there. It's not like these items are using a bunch of space, just hide the da#$%d things.
Contributor
XS650
Posts: 6
Registered: ‎04-01-2011

Re: Dear Big Brother / B & N:

 


ErikCudd wrote:

To those of you who think this is overreaction, everyone has their opinion. Why not let those of us who don't wish to have products forced on us have our opinion too?

 

We bought the device, and if we wish to choose what gets downloaded to it, it is our right.

 

I am taking mine back today and getting my money back thank you very much, simly because of this very issue.

 


No one is stopping you from having your own opinion. However, when you post such an overblown rant in  a public forum, you should expect people to have a good laugh at your expense.

 

Distinguished Correspondent
TaterFink
Posts: 117
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
0 Kudos

Re: Dear Big Brother / B & N:

Wow, I thought we were just having a bit of fun. . .

 

No need to take things so personally. Geesh!:smileysad:

motorcyclists thought of the day - never put your earplugs in the same pocket with your jellybeans!
Wordsmith
ImmortalBeloved
Posts: 292
Registered: ‎12-10-2010
0 Kudos

Re: Dear Big Brother / B & N:

I agree about the cookbook but the manuals? I don't see why that would bother anyone. I guess I can see that people might want to archive them but I would never want to get rid of mine completely. The cookbook on the other hand is useless to me and yes, I want it GONE. I hate that we can't delete it.

Inspired Scribe
Nevermore1
Posts: 632
Registered: ‎04-13-2010

Re: Dear Big Brother / B & N:

 


feltbettor wrote:

Stop. Just stop. If you find yourself cruising through the forum and read a subject heading that sounds interesting by all means read the OP. But for the love of god it's not your fight. Stop being the martyr. Stop belittling the OP then come back angry trying to defend the party line later.

 

If the OP want to get an irritating situation off his chest, let him. It's not even like you disagree with him. You only disagree with the way he's saying it. One person wanted to emphasize his displeasure with not being able to organize his collection to his satisfaction and you all mocked him. 

 

And now this TOS arguement is just precious. Wonderfull trump card whenever you need it. Clever. Why stop there? Why not the "root it if you don't like it" defense? Or the "B&N didn't force you to buy the NC" arguement? Truth is....it doesn't matter what you all think. To a business....all that matters is what the customer thinks. And he wants B&N to know what he thinks.

 

We get it Deemure....you don't like anyone talking trash about your little buddy. WE GET IT! But hey baby.....give some other people a chance to pontificate their feelings for your little buddy. Our feelings are just as important as yours. And we promise if we see you write about a pet peeve of yours.....we won't jump down your throat and sneer at you. Will we fellas?

 

Learn the words, "to each their own" and try using them instead of attacking everyone different than you next time.

 


If the OP would BN to know what he thinks then maybe he should have drafted a letter/e-mail direct to BN instead of posting on a user/customer forum.  Yes, everyone is entitled to have thier opinion on things but I feel as though the OP is over reacting to a stupid cookbook sample and some user manuals.  Who knows maybe they'll remove the cookbook sample with the next update.  As deemure mentioned everything that is on someone's nook or nook color is there with their permission per the TOS.  If you don't like it then return it, give it away or whatever and go back to DTB's if it's really that big a deal.  When you're using a device like the nook or kindle or any other e-reader (or almost any type of technology) out there you are bound by that companies TOS whether you like it or not.

 

Distinguished Correspondent
feltbettor
Posts: 65
Registered: ‎12-18-2010

Re: Dear Big Brother / B & N:

 


deemure wrote:

 

Just as you say or indicate the OP has the right to his opinion, so do I.  And if I use facts to back it up, you begin the personal attacks.  Yes, I attacked the choice of words in the topic.  It makes people read it because they want to find out what awful thing BN has done and if it affects them.  Especially in the wake of such things as the Sony/PS3 and Apple tracking debacles.
For the millionth time, when BN errs I am one of the first to admit it.  I'm not blind to their mistakes, but when a poster is being what I consider irrational and trying to inflame others, I will speak to it.  I always do so with facts.
And if you don't like the TOS argument, well that's too bad.  It's there for a reason.  It exists.  You agreed to it.  You don't like the 3 oh so offensive things put on the NC.  Oh well, then say you don't like it.  But to compare it to some version of mind and life control is absolutely, patently ridiculous.
I don't care what you think of me personally, but I prefer that people with real issues get help here than people whining for the sake of whining.  Do they have a right to whine?  Yes.  Do they sometimes have valid points?  Sure.  But, I have often found that the more outlandish the topic subject is, the less valid the point contained within.
And for the record, this type of post is my pet peeve.  Just because I didn't state it as such doesn't change this fact, but you have jumped down my throat every single time I have tried to point out that these books are not such a horrific, lifechanging, mind altering event.  And again they were not put there without your permission any more than the whole operating system was.  TOS aren't just formalities.

 


 

Yeah just keep posting why he was wrong in everyway you can find to explain it. Just keep digging in to show how fair your being when all your doing is defending the fault you found in his opinion and the lengths you went to put him down for it.

 

You don't get it, you won't get it, you'll never get it. It might be a discussion board but some posts aren't up for discussion. Some posts are just rhetorical.

 

[ Note to people ] - Preface all critical posts with the word "Rhetorical" to avoid scrutiny. A.K.A. - B&N Defender Squad.  B.N.D.S.

 

By all means though, take another moment to assess your feelings on whether we have the right to think what we think and come up with yet another post pointing out why we are wrong.

 

Head. Wall. Bang. Hurts. Tired. Done. Gone. Out.

 

"Now remember, what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas... Except herpes, that s*** will come back with you." - Sid Garner
Inspired Wordsmith
sandie52
Posts: 666
Registered: ‎01-14-2011

Re: Dear Big Brother / B & N:


MaluhiaKana wrote:

I see the B&N apologists are out in force today. I think the OP was arguing a matter of principle. True, in the grand scheme of things, it's not that big of a deal to have this item of our library. I actually have no problems with the device guides being on the Nook. Heck, I didn't know that they did this when I bought the Nook and had planned to put the guides on myself.

 


If by apologists you mean I actually own a Nook Color (unlike about half the flamers that post just to create a firestorm) then I guess yes I am. No one can be too surprised when they go out to a user messageboard to post they hate the device they bought and are taking it back that they get a lot of replys.  Because after all - the only reason to post that is to point out to people that the rest of you are stupid.