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MikeFromMesa
Posts: 19
Registered: ‎05-11-2011
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Re: NC: BN vs Amazon: Are NC users the losers?

>>  Well, that's one way of looking at it.  I view Apple as a company that is very good at selling decent products to technically ignorant folks and to people that hate Microsoft.

 

That seems to be painting with a pretty broad brush! I own an iPhone and an iPad and do not consider myself to be "technically ignorant" nor do I "hate Microsoft". In fact all of my home computers are PCs, not MACs and I worked for 25 years developing software, much of it for the PC.

 

I would agree that those people who wait hours to be the first to buy a new iPhone or iPad 2 should get a life, but that does not make all Apple owners drones or technically ignorant. You should not paint with such a broad brush.



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retiefBD
Posts: 140
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Re: NC: BN vs Amazon: Are NC users the losers?


JinSC wrote:

 

@retiefBD...I'm not sure i understand your reasoning.  If BN sold me rooted uSD, I would be buying my apps from the Android Market, not BN.  BN would not have to support these apps.  People don't even expect Android Market to support the apps sold there, you go to the developer's site for help. 

In fact, i think it might help BN's CS.  The uSD could come with statement that says, "BN will support only original NC issues.  Any issues arising from apps used the usSD OS must be addressed to the app developer."  I'd still buy it.

 

Let me take your reasoning a step farther.  You say BN has to support what is purchased on an NC.  Does that mean if I use an Apple, HP, Dell (fill in your computer brand here) to buy cordless drill made by Dewalt, Craftsman, Ryobi, etc,, that Apple/HP/Dell has to provide customer support for the drill?  good luck with that! 

 

Jeremy

 


 


I sure hope I have the quoting correct.

 

I did not say that BN HAS to support the apps, here is what I said:

" As it stands now, those of us who have rooted know that there is zero support for non-BN-market apps, but those who just buy the Nook have an expectation that everything they purchase from BN is fully supported, and I think that attitude would carry through to Android Market apps as well.  Just look at this forum for many examples."

 

Whether BN agrees to support them or not, you can clearly see from the postings here that there is an expectation among many people that BN should be.  The difference with BN and the Android App store is quite simple.  The Android App Store does not have a CS number to call and complain, BN does.  And every call costs BN money, even to simply say "We don't support that".  Even worse, BN then gets bad press for lack of support via people who either don't understand the difference, or just don't care.

 

As to your statement about BN sending out a dislaimer, when was the last time you read any of those, your MS license agreements for example?  The bottom line is that the more people who perceive, with or without a disclaimer, than BN must support anything they "sell", there will be a CS cost to BN that can't simply be ignored.  Or are you saying that the disclaimer will stop people from calling?  In my experience that disclaimer simply gives a company the ability to say "Sorry, we don't do that" and get off the call more quickly.

DeanGibson
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"A implies B" does not mean that "B implies A"

[ Edited ]

MikeFromMesa wrote:

...

 

That seems to be painting with a pretty broad brush!...You should not paint with such a broad brush.




Please note the construction of the English sentence I posted.

 

I did not say that the technically ignorant and Microsoft haters were the only people that bought Apple products (which even if you totally misread my statement, should have been clear from the rest of the message).  I said that Apple was very good at selling products to them.  I even used the phrase "decent products" to communicate the idea that the products were generally useful and of good quality, which would imply that reasonable people bought them as well.

 

Would you react thusly if I said that B&N is very good selling the Nook to people who just want to read, and can't deal with a complex computing device???

 

The converse of a statement is not necessarily true (see the title of this message).

 

Another person called me "condescending" for my original statement.  I am condescending to people I meet who have the "Apple can do no wrong and Microsoft is the evil empire", because I find that to be a ridiculous attitude.  My statement implied (and here I'll state it explicitly) that Apple targets some of its promotion to such people.

 

Many companies (especially the car/truck/SUV companies) target their advertising to the emotional needs/wants of their buyers.  My all-time favorite is the GM truck TV ad a few years ago, which did nothing but flashed images of GM trucks on the screen, while a male voice softly chanted in the background, "boom, boom, boom, boom;  pow, pow, pow, pow".  But certainly that doesn't mean that only that type of person buys GM trucks.  However, the fact that GM went to the cost of making and showing that ad, confirmed my belief about some truck buyers, just as when Apple devotees booed Steve Jobs for announcing a deal with Microsoft, confirmed my belief about some Apple owners.  I repeat, "some".

 

However, on a forum for products that people buy in order to read and comprehend the writings of others, I would hope (but not necessarily expect) that people would do so with regard to messages posted here as well.

 

2 Nook HD/8GB + 2 Nook HD+/16GB: B&N 2.2.0 rooted
2 Nook Touch (one Ltd. Ed.): B&N 1.2.1 rooted; Dell Venue 8 Pro: Windows 8.1
2 Nook 1stEd/3G: B&N 1.7.0 rooted.; Acer Iconia A500: Android 4.0.3 rooted;
Nook Color: B&N 1.4.3 rooted; Samsung Galaxy Tab2 (7.0"): Android 4.2.2 rooted
Customer loyalty is earned, not commanded or deserved, and easily lost.
Never suspect intent where incompetence will do.
DeanGibson
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Why people buy products

[ Edited ]

DeanGibson wrote: ... My all-time favorite is the GM truck TV ad a few years ago, which did nothing but flashed images of GM trucks on the screen, while a male voice softly chanted in the background, "boom, boom, boom, boom;  pow, pow, pow, pow".

 


Years ago, in the booming 8-bit computer world, I wrote a device driver for floppy disk drives that supported double-sided floppy drives and 80-track drives (the original driver only supported single-sided, 40-track drives).  I also added a feature that improved performance, by keeping the drive head "loaded" onto the the diskette surface after an operation for a short while, in case another diskette operation was forthcoming (the original driver unloaded the head after each operation), because you had to wait after loading the head for a short while before continuing the operation.

 

One day someone who had bought the new device driver called me to ask me something, and so I asked him why he bought it:  Was it for the increased diskette capacity support, or for the increased performance?

 

Neither, he said;  "I bought it because my wife doesn't like the incessant clicking."

2 Nook HD/8GB + 2 Nook HD+/16GB: B&N 2.2.0 rooted
2 Nook Touch (one Ltd. Ed.): B&N 1.2.1 rooted; Dell Venue 8 Pro: Windows 8.1
2 Nook 1stEd/3G: B&N 1.7.0 rooted.; Acer Iconia A500: Android 4.0.3 rooted;
Nook Color: B&N 1.4.3 rooted; Samsung Galaxy Tab2 (7.0"): Android 4.2.2 rooted
Customer loyalty is earned, not commanded or deserved, and easily lost.
Never suspect intent where incompetence will do.
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deemure
Posts: 3,933
Registered: ‎12-28-2009

Re: Why people buy products

 


DeanGibson wrote:

 

Neither, he said;  "I bought it because my wife doesn't like the incessant clicking."


Unfortunately, that is just who is targeted for purchasing things.  In the world at large, there are many things that people will buy just because it seems like they should.  In the computer world there was at least for a time feedback from the tech savvy that seemed to matter, so if things lacked substance, people might still buy, but there were others that would cry foul.

 

I have become increasingly disheartened to see that there are those that are tech savvy that say Apple has gotten it right because it's great for consumers not to have too much control over their stuff.  First of all, I can't believe that they are at all tech savvy, because there isn't any such person that I have ever known that doesn't like to tinker. If they really are, I think a certain amount of this comes from some that are fed up with having to help those that "break" their computers or that install any old thing they download, but they do a disservice.  The ipad is ok, but it could be really great if it were opened up to what could be available.  If you didn't have to go to an app store to get whatever you might think you'd like to try. but, that means the person doing this might be able to deal with any problems or it might be someone that's totally ignorant.  In short, I think it would be great if the ipad were truly owned by the owner. 

 

But, what that would mean is that Apple couldn't get "lazy" after the fact.  I think they have opted to control what goes in, because they don't want to have to deal with security issues or any other such things on the back end.  That, and they want all content to come from them, all parts to be approved and licensed by them, so the dollar stream goes to them.  Stop using your brain, deciding how you want to use it, they know best.

 

The American consumer has been led to buy Pet Rocks, Pet Ghosts(a box with nothing in it), will spend $1000 on a cheap stuffed animal made in China, will buy anything that is new and next and popular.  Heck, women will even buy stuff that features what I call the self-wedgie, will puff up their lips till they look like 2 balloons about to pop, say they want to look appealing, but end up looking like some plastic doll, and we debate whether there are ignorant people buying Apple products.  I must go now right away and buy a plastic somewhat mechanical pet (why get a real one) or see what virtual pets I can collect or what virtual land I can buy with real money online.  Ignorant, pah!

"I still believe in spite of everything that people are good at heart." Anne Frank.
DeanGibson
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Kissing a hot frying pan


deemure wrote:

 

...  Heck, women ... will puff up their lips till they look like 2 balloons about to pop, say they want to look appealing, but end up looking like some plastic doll, and we debate whether there are ignorant people buying Apple products.

I call that the "fried lips" syndrome.  It seemed to be popular for a while with hosts on a certain cable network.  I actually preferred it to the recent move to bombast ...

2 Nook HD/8GB + 2 Nook HD+/16GB: B&N 2.2.0 rooted
2 Nook Touch (one Ltd. Ed.): B&N 1.2.1 rooted; Dell Venue 8 Pro: Windows 8.1
2 Nook 1stEd/3G: B&N 1.7.0 rooted.; Acer Iconia A500: Android 4.0.3 rooted;
Nook Color: B&N 1.4.3 rooted; Samsung Galaxy Tab2 (7.0"): Android 4.2.2 rooted
Customer loyalty is earned, not commanded or deserved, and easily lost.
Never suspect intent where incompetence will do.
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deemure
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Re: Kissing a hot frying pan

 


DeanGibson wrote:

deemure wrote:

 

...  Heck, women ... will puff up their lips till they look like 2 balloons about to pop, say they want to look appealing, but end up looking like some plastic doll, and we debate whether there are ignorant people buying Apple products.

I call that the "fried lips" syndrome.  It seemed to be popular for a while with hosts on a certain cable network.  I actually preferred it to the recent move to bombast ...


They look painful so I guess now they just sound painful.  Perhaps the collagen has reinforced their windpipes.

"I still believe in spite of everything that people are good at heart." Anne Frank.
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retiefBD
Posts: 140
Registered: ‎04-15-2011
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Re: Why people buy products

[ Edited ]

deemure wrote:

I must go now right away and buy a plastic somewhat mechanical pet (why get a real one) or see what virtual pets I can collect or what virtual land I can buy with real money online.  Ignorant, pah!


Hmm, I'm afraid to ask what you think of Facebook/Farmville and buying and selling in MORPG's :smileyvery-happy:

 

Or even better, the "real money" dealings that occur in the buying and selling of items in the "virtual" worlds.

 

And "they" say the consumer is dumb.  Just another of the things that make you want to go, Hmmmm ......

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yocalif
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Registered: ‎01-03-2011
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Re: Why people buy products

As usual this thead has got about as far off topic as most.  Lips, collagen, MORPGS, Virtual Worlds, and worse extremely lengthy replies to the off topic branches.

 

At least it was interesting discussion until we managed to lapse into trivial banter.

Correspondent
retiefBD
Posts: 140
Registered: ‎04-15-2011

Re: Why people buy products


yocalif wrote:

As usual this thead has got about as far off topic as most.  Lips, collagen, MORPGS, Virtual Worlds, and worse extremely lengthy replies to the off topic branches.

 

At least it was interesting discussion until we managed to lapse into trivial banter.


Well, I won't speak for anyone but myself, but I will say that even the trivial banter is related to the issue of Marketing versus Content/Functionality.  I think it well illustrates the point, and is humorous to boot.

 

Perhaps if you joined the discussion and responded to some of the questions/comments with deeper meaning you could help get things back on track, maybe even back to your definition of "interesting".

 

I think that Deemure has made some great points regarding the tech savvy types who like Apple because it takes away control from the consumers.  I think Demmure is spot on, and that when those same people are viewed as the "industry pundits", then people blindly follow.  Which leads to the situations that both Dean and I have found between Windows Mobile and iPhones as an example.  What do you think of all of that?

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tonyh61
Posts: 37
Registered: ‎04-27-2011

Re: NC: BN vs Amazon: Are NC users the losers?

i agree with you

Nook Color honeycomb 3.0/ stock 1.4.1
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deemure
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Re: NC: BN vs Amazon: Are NC users the losers?

Wow, we was just conversating.  Way to rain on our parade. 

"I still believe in spite of everything that people are good at heart." Anne Frank.
DeanGibson
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Re: Why people buy products

[ Edited ]

yocalif wrote:

As usual this thead has got about as far off topic as most.  Lips, collagen, MORPGS, Virtual Worlds, and worse extremely lengthy replies to the off topic branches.

 

At least it was interesting discussion until we managed to lapse into trivial banter.


Believe me, considering how many of the threads here degenerate into hostility, "trivial banter" is sometimes welcome.

 

Just so it's not a steady diet.  Unless B&N creates a section for it.  Sam?

 

2 Nook HD/8GB + 2 Nook HD+/16GB: B&N 2.2.0 rooted
2 Nook Touch (one Ltd. Ed.): B&N 1.2.1 rooted; Dell Venue 8 Pro: Windows 8.1
2 Nook 1stEd/3G: B&N 1.7.0 rooted.; Acer Iconia A500: Android 4.0.3 rooted;
Nook Color: B&N 1.4.3 rooted; Samsung Galaxy Tab2 (7.0"): Android 4.2.2 rooted
Customer loyalty is earned, not commanded or deserved, and easily lost.
Never suspect intent where incompetence will do.
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MikeFromMesa
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Re: "A implies B" does not mean that "B implies A"

[ Edited ]

Would you react thusly if I said that B&N is very good selling the Nook to people who just want to read, and can't deal with a complex computing device???

 

Yes, probably so. Just because people use the Nook to read does not imply that they can't deal with a "complex computing device". They may be buying it for multiple other reasons (size, weight, cost, convenience, etc), as I did.

 

As for "A implies B" does not mean that "B implies A", I am well aware of that having taught Mathematics and Computer Science at the college level for about 9 years. My point was that the thrust of your statement, and the perceived tone, was condescending to those, like myself, who bought these products for other reasons.

 

I have dealt with many "Apple only" people and I find them as silly as those who are "Microsoft only" or "Android only". People buy devices like the iPhone or iPad or Nook or Playbook or others for multiple reasons and classification does not serve any useful end.

 

 

 

 

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beeyebickiebuy
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Re: NC: BN vs Amazon: Are NC users the losers?

Back to the thread's subject line - if NC users are losers, what have they lost?  

DeanGibson
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Re: "A implies B" does not mean that "B implies A"


MikeFromMesa wrote:
...

 

As for "A implies B" does not mean that "B implies A", I am well aware of that having taught Mathematics and Computer Science at the college level for about 9 years. My point was that the thrust of your statement, and the perceived tone, was condescending to those, like myself, who bought these products for other reasons.

 



We have more in common than you might fear:  My undergraduate degree is in mathematics from CalTech, and my graduate degree is in Computer Science from the U. Wisconsin;  I taught the latter but not the former for a few years at the U. Washington.

 

And, if you bought the iPad for other reasons, I bought the Nook Color for non-book-reading reasons.

 

2 Nook HD/8GB + 2 Nook HD+/16GB: B&N 2.2.0 rooted
2 Nook Touch (one Ltd. Ed.): B&N 1.2.1 rooted; Dell Venue 8 Pro: Windows 8.1
2 Nook 1stEd/3G: B&N 1.7.0 rooted.; Acer Iconia A500: Android 4.0.3 rooted;
Nook Color: B&N 1.4.3 rooted; Samsung Galaxy Tab2 (7.0"): Android 4.2.2 rooted
Customer loyalty is earned, not commanded or deserved, and easily lost.
Never suspect intent where incompetence will do.
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JinSC
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Re: NC: BN vs Amazon: Are NC users the losers?


beeyebickiebuy wrote:

Back to the thread's subject line - if NC users are losers, what have they lost?  


The original thrust of this thread was that:

 

Given that B&M has a finite set of resources (for CS, development, etc.) then resouces commited to the development and support of a new Nook line are by defiinition not being used to support and improve the NC line.   For example, is the slowness of B&N to respond to the landscaping issue a direct result of programmers/developers working on the Nook Touch who formerly worked on NC?

 

Another way of looking at the question is :  Does B&N see its future market share more in the eink readers rather than the touchsecreen readers?  If so, then who do you think gets the best support and effort from B&N?

 

That being said, NC users haven't "lost" anything, per se...the point was, are we going to be missing something in the future?

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retiefBD
Posts: 140
Registered: ‎04-15-2011
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Re: NC: BN vs Amazon: Are NC users the losers?


JinSC wrote:

beeyebickiebuy wrote:

Back to the thread's subject line - if NC users are losers, what have they lost?  


The original thrust of this thread was that:

 

Given that B&M has a finite set of resources (for CS, development, etc.) then resouces commited to the development and support of a new Nook line are by defiinition not being used to support and improve the NC line.   For example, is the slowness of B&N to respond to the landscaping issue a direct result of programmers/developers working on the Nook Touch who formerly worked on NC?

 

Another way of looking at the question is :  Does B&N see its future market share more in the eink readers rather than the touchsecreen readers?  If so, then who do you think gets the best support and effort from B&N?

 

That being said, NC users haven't "lost" anything, per se...the point was, are we going to be missing something in the future?


 

Unless you have some inside knowledge, I think your initial statement is nothing more than idle speculation.  It is not at all uncommon for a company to add resources when a new product/line is added.  For example, when Boeing is building a new plane they will, especially if they are not retiring one, create a completely new line.  Some companies have the ability to repurpose a production line or staff for a new product/line, but that generally is done when a current product is either end of life, or non-profitable, leading to end of life.  What evidence do you have that this is not the case with B&N?  Now, to be completely fair, I have absolutely no clue whether they, B&N, have added staff or not. 

 

So to answer your question directly, without knowing this I would not speculate that we, the Nook Color folks, will not be missing anything in the future.

 

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chuck4prez
Posts: 722
Registered: ‎04-29-2011

Re: Unrealistic expectations in a forum. are NC owners the real loosers?


DeanGibson wrote:

yocalif wrote:

As usual this thead has got about as far off topic as most.  Lips, collagen, MORPGS, Virtual Worlds, and worse extremely lengthy replies to the off topic branches.

 

At least it was interesting discussion until we managed to lapse into trivial banter.


Believe me, considering how many of the threads here degenerate into hostility, "trivial banter" is sometimes welcome.

 

Just so it's not a steady diet.  Unless B&N creates a section for it.  Sam?

 


IMHO, trivial banter is always welcome. Even more so a day or two after the first post and everything that can be said has been said. Besides, complaining about trivial banter is also trivial banter. Furthermore, there was nothing trivial about deemure's rant in my opinion. I was even shocked I was the first to laurel her. So i agree with you dean, but probably a little more extreme. In my opinion, if you post respectfully, you can post no wrong. If people have a problem with it, it's their problem but I will not be herded, and I won't start a thread every time I want to post something trivial. There's plenty that complain about that too. Yocalif, I respect you a great deal personally, and I enjoy most of your posts, but I do not respect your position on forum etiquette.
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MikeFromMesa
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Re: "A implies B" does not mean that "B implies A"

We have more in common than you might fear:  My undergraduate degree is in mathematics from CalTech, and my graduate degree is in Computer Science from the U. Wisconsin;  I taught the latter but not the former for a few years at the U. Washington.

 

And, if you bought the iPad for other reasons, I bought the Nook Color for non-book-reading reasons.

 

It is a small world indeed.

 

I taught both for about 9 years before leaving education for a career as a Software Engineer. I loved teaching, but you can't make a living at it. And I loved designing and writing software (and, of course, all of the techie advantages of working with computers).

 

I have an iPhone (because it is the only smart phone that actually filled my requirements), an iPad (because it was the only real tablet available when I bought it) and I use the iPad as an eReader using both the Kindle and Nook apps. I also have a Nook Color which I actually like very much, but lacks some of the basic functionality I wanted unless rooted. When rooted it handles the Kindle app very nicely, although a bit slowly. As an unrooted eBook reader it is very nice, but is missing landscape mode and the ability to zoom maps and tables (I read a lot of history books).

 

I know this is off topic. Sorry.