Played With a Kindle Fire...meh

[tuck229]

I was in Wal-Mart yesterday and the Fire was on display along side the iPad.  My 12 yr old and I piddled with it.  As a NC owner, I was underimpressed.  The interface looked cool with it's artful shelf screens and slick movements, but it didn't navigate in as user-friendly a manner, in my opinion.  I'm still fairly new to Nook Color, so it's not like I have been nook interface brainwashed or anything.  And it might be my own personal preferences click with the Nook's interface more naturally.

First thing my son said was "This thing's heavy."  It was.  

We watched one of the pre-loaded movie trailers.  I was kind of nervous while it was loading because I was wondering if some slick video might make Fire stand tall above Nook.  Wow, was I wrong.  Maybe it was the particular video file, but the video on the Fire's screen was not at all impressive to me.  I've done very little video on my NC but my son had been watching documentaries this past week on it through the Smithsonian app, and he said he could tell a difference.  (Of course he knows he is getting a NC for Christmas, so his loyalty is probably at play a little too.)  He said the Fire looked like one of those cheaper portable DVD players you put in the car, and I had to agree, at least with the short bit of video we watched on it.

One thing I did like was the end of the charger cord.  It plugged in the bottom like on a Nook, but it had this 90-degree bent tip, so that the cord was directed backward and away from the bottom.  That's been a pet peeve with my NC when lying in bed and reading with it plugged in.  That might just be the store display plug though.

Anyway, it would be interesting if Best Buy put a Fire in between a NC and a NT.  They aren't perfect, but I have always felt like my little NC is a very well built piece of electronics for the money.  It doesn't feel cheaply made.  I wouldn't describe the Fire as cheaply made, but I can say that it just  felt different than the NCs, in a slightly inferior way.  If you've held one in your hands, maybe you know what I mean.  Not Kindle bashing, just saying I still think the NC or NT have ended up being a better product still.  (Although Kindle may have better content to lots of people still.) 

[deemure]

Interesting comparison.  Kind of reaffirms things I've read about it.

I do tend to think there's a problem right now with Best Buy seeming to show preferential treatment to display of the Fire over the NT.  I believe it may have to do with some deals Amazon has with Best Buy, but think B&N might have a complaint with how they are doing things.  In some stores, they don't even have the NTs out and they should according to employees.

As far as the fit and feel-this has been stated by some reviewers.  One even did a drop test comparison and the Fire failed.  Holding it has been described as not so comfortable, but I will say the NC is absolutely comfortable to hold.  The USB cord design is not the best, but at least it does include a USB cord.  The cord for the Fire is connected to the charger and not able to be used for sideloading.

The opening "carosel" of content on the Fire apparently looks cool at first, but becomes annoying the more content available since it all gets lumped together.

I know I'm biased.  I like nooks.  The content Amazon has for the Fire looks impressive, but the discussion boards do bear out the complaints that are there.  If the demo video they had on the one you saw is an indication, the Amazon content is likely even worse.  People have described the streaming video options as choppy, lower quality, and so on.  That's just what reviewers and users have said and getting their content to the device seems not to always be that easy.

[Bluepen61]

In the reviews I have read, it seems that the reviewers have gone out of their way to prevent embarrasing Amazon and the Kindle Fire. And seem to minimize the NC and NT strengths.

As for store shelf display, I suspect that B&N has limited resources to contract shelf space in all stores that is equivalent to Amazon's. In some cases, it might be an inventory issue where Nook inventory might be low or non existent. You can only sell what you have available. Also, the store manager's preception may be that the Kindle (Fire) is much superior to the Nook (Color/Tablet) which then would affect shelf space and location. Though the stores should be following the plano prescribed by corp (assuming they have a plano). 

[deemure]

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Bluepen61 wrote:

In the reviews I have read, it seems that the reviewers have gone out of their way to prevent embarrasing Amazon and the Kindle Fire. And seem to minimize the NC and NT strengths.

As for store shelf display, I suspect that B&N has limited resources to contract shelf space in all stores that is equivalent to Amazon's. In some cases, it might be an inventory issue where Nook inventory might be low or non existent. You can only sell what you have available. Also, the store manager's preception may be that the Kindle (Fire) is much superior to the Nook (Color/Tablet) which then would affect shelf space and location. Though the stores should be following the plano prescribed by corp (assuming they have a plano). 

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While it's possible you are right.  It's actually been stated that people went into Best Buys and asked about the NT and were told by employees the demo should be out and thye didn't know why it wasn't.  Best Buys do have them in stock, and I really can't see store managers not wanting to sell them based on their preferences.  And employees most likely do-they cost more, commissions would be higher.  And store managers also generally get some part of their salary as a percentage of sales in their store. 

[thans56]

We have four readers in our house and four different ereaders: kindle original, kindle fire, nook simple touch and nook color. Kindle fire is the newest, I purchased it recently because the kindle original was the oldest. The ability to get movies from amazon was a strong point in purchasing the KF over NT First . . . your video quality will only be as good as your internet speed or that factor has a big impact on the quality you see. You can't judge this by a store connect, esp Wal-Mart. KF video on a high speed connection far exceeds what I've seen on NC . . . I assume the NT will be the same though. Next, the KF to me is no heavier than my NC and again I imagine it will be the same for NT. As with any ereader . . . the type of cover/case you use will make a diff how heavy it will be as well. As to the charger plug . . . KF is identical to NC, at the bottom, straight out making it a pain to read while charging. I'm amazed that the designers of ereaders have never thought about putting the charger plug on the side or top of them. One solution is to turn the reader sideways for reading while charging. I don't really care to do this because it double the amount of page turns you must do but at least it's more comfortable to read while charging this way. A full charge on KF doesn't seem to last any longer than on a NC. I'm still amazed that my IPOD classic can play tv shows, movies, audio books and music up to a full day longer than an ereader . . . . don't understand that one. Aps on KF are wayyyyy better than on NC. My advice . . . . If you simply want to read books . . . get the Nook Simple Touch. It's smaller, easier to carry around, offers touch and the charge lasts for days! If you want a tablet type reader . . . I think it's just personal preference. I don't see huge differences between KF and NC or NT. Little differences that come down to what works best for each person. Price on KF is better if that is a factor. I'm not in to music on my ereader or the rooting thing so I cant say much about those. Personally, I like all the readers we have for different reasons.

[deemure]

Well, you can't assume a lot of things.  Video on the NT is better than on the NC.  I have both.  The NT is lighter than both the KF and NC.  The time between battery charges is better on the NT than either of the other 2.  The reason it is not as good as on an ipod is partly due to the size of the screen, the processor, and a bunch of other things.  Apps for the NC and NT specifically have been created to make use of them in particular, where many other apps are created more for phones.  Sure, there aren't as many of them, but then it comes down to how many apps are really that important and useful.

The streaming of video from Amazon is nowhere near as good as from Netflix on the NT-it's been stated this way all over the place and not due to connection issues either.  I've had great video streaming on my NT with several devices using the wifi-game consoles, pc, nooks, and so on.  The movie selection at Amazon also just isn't any better than what netflix offers and I personally can use netflix on a variety of devices that I can't use Amazon on. 

A lot of people that like the Amazon ecosystem stated that the video quality isn't that great-choppy, pixelated, and so on.  And this is on devices they purchased not store demos.  It's also based upon the processor as well as internal memory for buffering-more memory means smoother video.  There is also info out there that the NT supports higher quality video that it then recodes to high quality as well-so that may have something to do with it as well.  I'm not saying that connectivity can't affect it, but that is not the only thing that will.  And, if you are in a store and compare the two, connectivity is not part of the equation necessarily.  It has also been noted that the screen brightness is not as good on the KF.  Text and images are said to be crisper and Netflix and other apps look better and fit better on the NT.

I base a lot of my opinions on what even those that like the KF say on the kindle discussion boards-they hate the carosel, the case is ugh, the lack of certain physical buttons (volume that cannot be adjusted within apps as well), video quality, inability to easily get some content to the thing-a workaround was using some music settings to get some video to it, and a lot of other things.

Not trying to say the KF is horrible, I'm sure it isn't.  And I'm happy for anyone that is happy with it.  But there are basic differences between the KF and the NT and the NT and the NC and you can't assume otherwise.

[thans56]

Well I've watched 16 movies in two weeks and have not noticed any issues with them no matter if I streamed or downloaded them.  I mainly use ereaders for reading books and watching movies, no opinions really on the apps other than a few that I play now and then.  And the KF is lighter to carry in my purse.

Again, as with all the ereaders I truly think it comes down to personal preference.  I wasn't trying to say one was any better than the other.  More that I'm happy with the KF after using it.  I still like my NC as well lol.

The one issue I've had with NC was the difference between one font size and another when you moved only one size . . . it's a very big difference so it sometimes makes it hard to get the right size text.  I wish they would make the change a bit less of a difference.  On the KF its like this and moving up just one size has been perfect for me.  Again . . . a personal use and pref thing.

Since I have not had my NC that long, for me the KF made more sense and it was cheaper.

OH and the video quality on the KF far exceeds that of my IPAD2.  Not sure what apple did but the video quality on IPad2 isn't near as good as it was on the IPad1.  That's one upgrade I wish I had NOT done lol.

[tuck229]

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thans56 wrote:
 . . . your video quality will only be as good as your internet speed or that factor has a big impact on the quality you see. You can't judge this by a store connect, esp Wal-Mart.

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This was a video trailer pre-loaded on the Fire display model, so wifi speed wouldn't affect it.  True, video output quality can only be as good as the video file...but I would imagine Amazon would load the Fire with top quality demo video files.  Maybe not, though.  If I were considering buying one, I was not impressed with the quality of the demo videos on the device.

I'm not saying it's a bad reader-tab.  It just wasn't up to the level I expected it to be based on all the hype.  Tons will be sold, though, and Amazon will do very well with it.

[thans56]

The one issue I've had with NC was the difference between one font size and another when you moved only one size . . . it's a very big difference so it sometimes makes it hard to get the right size text.  I wish they would make the change a bit less of a difference.  On the KF its like this and moving up just one size has been perfect for me.  Again . . . a personal use and pref thing.

WOOOHOOOO the current update has fixed this . . . lots more options with font sizes so now I no longer have to choose between to small and to big LOL.

Great update!!!!!

[mbratch]

I haven't had a chance to play with a KF but I am wanting to check it out. I am a (very happy) NC owner.

What I have observed in the press (e.g., ZDNet, etc) is that the KF seems to get the headlines all the time, whereas the NT is nearly ignored. All technical and user comparisons aside on the devices, Amazon has an advantage in that they're a darling of the tech businesses right now and they have lots of diversity in their product offerings (books, pay-per-view video, etc), whereas B&N is a narrower market and has had less glory in the market discussions.

So my impression is that the B&N products are top notch, equal or better versus the Amazon, but they could lose out just due to favored marketing and their diversification. Same kind of advantage Microsoft has had in the past over its rivals.

[Nom-de-Nook]

If the Fire wasn't $199 I don't think it would get any press at all.  But it is $199.  People talk on these boards about unreasonable expectations for the NT then rip the Fire for not being as good.  Talk about unreasonable expectations...the NT is 25% more expensive, it should be better.

[orb9220]

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Nom-de-Nook wrote:

If the Fire wasn't $199 I don't think it would get any press at all.  But it is $199.  People talk on these boards about unreasonable expectations for the NT then rip the Fire for not being as good.  Talk about unreasonable expectations...the NT is 25% more expensive, it should be better.

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Well my Nook Color was $199 and does more than the Fire in my opinion at the same price. And yep don't think I see much press when it was lowered to that in response to the Kindle fire. Yep with the right press you always seem to Glow

And don't get why more don't compare the Fire to the Nook Color? Just because it doesn't have the word tablet in it's name? I consider color and tablet as the same tablet family. With the tablet the beefier big brother.

.

[Nom-de-Nook]

Other than the expansion slot, what exactly does the NC do without rooting or using CM7 or other non-stock OS that the Fire doesn't?  And the Fire has a superior processor.

Also, until the update came out this week, any objective comparison a reviewer did of the NC vs the Fire would have come out with the Fire on top (again except for the expansion slot) since it had less media available as well as the inferior single core processor.

[geatdanemomDT]

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Nom-de-Nook wrote:

Other than the expansion slot, what exactly does the NC do without rooting or using CM7 or other non-stock OS that the Fire doesn't?  And the Fire has a superior processor.

Also, until the update came out this week, any objective comparison a reviewer did of the NC vs the Fire would have come out with the Fire on top (again except for the expansion slot) since it had less media available as well as the inferior single core processor.

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Pardon me but in my personnel opinion,  expansion slot = really big deal and really big difference. 

[petesnook]

Nom-de-Nook wrote:

Other than the expansion slot...

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?

Seriously, though, if the choice is between an expansion slot and a faster processor, the slot wins hands down for my needs. I don't like cloud storage, particularly when practically forced on me. My videos and those on the Smithsonian Channel run quite smoothly on my NC.  Web browsing is actually faster on the NC than on my netbook. So I don't feel I need a faster processor any more than my old Subaru needed my Jaguar XK8's V8 engine.

As for the objective comparison based on media availability, that could be construed as subjective by those of us who have no need for Netflix.

[orb9220]

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Nom-de-Nook wrote:

Other than the expansion slot, what exactly does the NC do without rooting or using CM7 or other non-stock OS that the Fire doesn't?  And the Fire has a superior processor.

Also, until the update came out this week, any objective comparison a reviewer did of the NC vs the Fire would have come out with the Fire on top (again except for the expansion slot) since it had less media available as well as the inferior single core processor.

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On top by who's point of view? As different specifications or features will have different levels of weight to the users that need them.

And for many had more to do with what the Fire didn't have. Most agreed the Nook Color had a better screen with superior viewing angle over the Fire. Also noted was important to many to have dedicated buttons that the fire lack and many pointed out that an important consideration. Also many have reported hating the Carousel UI and lack of customizing the screen to their needs.

Other things that are a consideration which gave the Nook Color the nod with many. Was requiring Amazon prime account which is another $79 to utililize all the content available to the fire. And requiring the Cloud for content. What if all that is considered a negative and not a postive feature?

And sorry but feel even the Nook color is hands above the fire for more for the dollar. And the fire requiring you to spend even more than the Tablet to get full access to all it's advertised features.

.

[patgolfneb]

I suspect that processors and processor speed is over valued by consumers. If you don't have enough memory for a good sized cache, or the CPU buss speed can't keep up with the CPU or the software isn't well written then a more powerfull CPU is wasted. If you put 300 HP engine in a car with a 3 speed automatic and skinny tires you aren't going anywhere fast. This is why Apple's IpadII remains top rated even tough some of its 10 inch competitors seemingly have more advanced technology inside.

[j-andersonjma]

Processor clock speed is often statistically measurable yet practically meaningless.  By than I mean what you experience on a device is the real value.  My Nook Tablet has a faster two core processor than my Nook Color.  Yet, there is to my experience no appreciable difference in how it plays movies from the SD card or streams from netflix.  I also do not see differences in the "page turn" or loading speed of Apps.  All this to say; I played with a Kindle Fire at Staples today and was very surprised at the rather soft image rendered by the video player.  It was an onboard commercial movie clip so WiFi connection speed and all that does not apply.

[Nom-de-Nook]

...and a stock NC has vey limited apps, no ability to sideload apps...

The Fire has the Amazon app store and very easy to sideload apps without rooting,  The NC is a very nice ereader but not much of a tablet without rooting. 

The question posed was why don't more tech reviewers compare the NC to the Fire and I am just saying that there is no way the NC comes out on top for a tech reviewer.  The NT barely came out on top at CNET and it is $50 more.  Stock vs. stock the Fire would have beat the NC, especially before the 1.4.1 update came out.  But even now, a reviewer would still ding it badly on apps (which a tablet is supposed to have).

[tuck229]

Agreed, it is all about what a person wants/needs.  I'm very content with my NC.  I bought a refurb for $140, so it is cheaper and better than the Fire for me.

Expansion slot was mentioned.  Yes, that's a big deal, IMHO, for a percentage of people.  Cloud can be useful, but actual physical memory trumps it...for me.

Screen was mentioned.  From hype and advertising, the Fire's screen was supposed to be something.  I didn't see it on the pre-loaded video.  My 12 yr old son even commented that the picture quality was unimpressive.

Apps.  Seems like apps have become the ruler of the electronics device locker room.  I enjoy having useful or fun apps, but in all honesty, a big number of android and apple apps are...pointless.  The Nook app selection has grown a lot in the just the few months since I bought mine.  I don't feel like I'm missing out; however, I realize for others tons of apps may be a big deal.

One thing the Nook does that for many is meaningless but for me gives it big points, is its in-store reading feature.  No reviewer will ever mention it because for the bulk of people I suppose it doesn't matter.  For me, I love being able to sit in my local B&N and read an entire book for free or at least read more than the useless sample pages you can see from anywhere else on most titles.  As far as I know, the Nook is the only ereader that lets you recapture the bookstore browsing experience.

Again, I'm not Fire bashing--just saying why the NC is a better device for users like me.