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bobstro
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Re: Defective Nook GlowLight #2

Larry mentioned environmental issues. Is anybody at B&N tracking variables such as weather? Having left Boston for Tucson Monday, I can see how devices in one area might be more affected than others. This might also explain why some users see multiple failures, while others see none. A delivery truck that was left overnight during one of our sub-zero spells might explain a "cluster".
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Mercury_Glitch
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Re: Defective Nook GlowLight #2


Rhyta wrote:

Mercury_Glitch wrote:

.....

 

It's also hard to reproduce because customers as seldom as honest as some of the posters here have been.

 

"Have you dropped the Nook?"

"Oh, no, I treat it like a baby, I take super good care of it!"

 

Upon examining the Nook, i.e. glancing at it, the shell is cracked in several places. 

 

 

Yes, that's a slight exageration, but I assure you it's happened before and will happen again. 


 

 

 

I think you are being a bit patronizing and intimating that people are being deliberately dishonest.  I read a lot about the nook before I bought one last July and I saw the comments about these "holes" in the screen. I bought the hard cover less than a week after I purchased my NSTG.  I had been very careful, I didn't poke the screen, I used the buttons to change pages.  After 5 months I get a hole in the screen, so I switch the positions of the buttons so I am using it away from the hole and it has begun to crack anyway almost half way across the screen.  I bought the two year warranty so I am going to get it replaced but it does sound like this is a major problem for B&N to fix.  I just would like to get a new one and not go the refurbished route and have more trouble as others have.


 

I should explain that it's not -every- customer.  I was just trying to point out that it's not as easy as it may seem to properly replicate the situation that caused the problem.

 

User 1- Uses the Nook perfectly, light touches, cares for it like it's made of very brittle glass, etc.  Screen develops cracks. 

 

User 2- Uses the Nook as a coaster, flings it about, and jabs the screen.  Screen devlops cracks.

 

User 3- Tries to do what user 1 did, but occasionally displays habits of user 2.  Yet the screen never devlops cracks.

 

 

Right there it gets hard.  Why are 1 and 2 getting issues, but 3 isn't?  How can you test for something like that?

 

Now add in the human aspect, people lie.  It's no secret, and it happens all the time.  It doesn't mean every one lies all the time, but it's hard to tell every time someone lies. 

 

So yes, I may have come accross a bit patronizing, but I did note that I was going to an extreme in the sole example. 

The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills, and we are only the thread of the Pattern.
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Byteguy
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Re: Defective Nook GlowLight #2


bobstro wrote:
Larry mentioned environmental issues...

Larry's "environment" is "the situation that the hardware is in" and not so much "weather."

 

It's like my friend who's NST ran out of battery every day.  We talked and her "environment" included a daily bike-ride to and from work with the Nook bouncing around in her backback.  The power button kept getting bumped so it was on, waiting, off, on, waiting, off ... the entire trip.  Once she changed that, it stopped discharging.

 

As for "people don't exactly tell the truth" stories.. I was just in an Apple store and a guy had brought an iPad in.  The screen was SHATTERED with four or five round holes in it that looked exactly like someone had gone at it with a hammer.  He was saying "no, nobody did anything to it, it must be a manufacturing defect."

 

However, I do believe there has been a problem with the screens on the Glow.

 

 

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Mercury_Glitch
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Re: Defective Nook GlowLight #2


Byteguy wrote:

bobstro wrote:
Larry mentioned environmental issues...

Larry's "environment" is "the situation that the hardware is in" and not so much "weather."

 

It's like my friend who's NST ran out of battery every day.  We talked and her "environment" included a daily bike-ride to and from work with the Nook bouncing around in her backback.  The power button kept getting bumped so it was on, waiting, off, on, waiting, off ... the entire trip.  Once she changed that, it stopped discharging.

 

As for "people don't exactly tell the truth" stories.. I was just in an Apple store and a guy had brought an iPad in.  The screen was SHATTERED with four or five round holes in it that looked exactly like someone had gone at it with a hammer.  He was saying "no, nobody did anything to it, it must be a manufacturing defect."

 

However, I do believe there has been a problem with the screens on the Glow.

 

 


 

Agreed.  I'm not going to pretend the NSTG screens are perfect, but it's clearly working for many people.  Which makes me think that some NSTGs go bad on their own, and some are given a little help by their owners however unintentional that help may be. 

 

Is it something B&N should look at and try to fix?  Yes. 

 

Hopefully we'll see a better model this spring.

The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills, and we are only the thread of the Pattern.
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roustabout
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Re: Defective Nook GlowLight #2

My impression of the screens is basically that the things which are causing delamination or bubbling in the NSTG screens may well have been happening in the NST screens but were not noticable.

 

Once you use the screen as a light guide rather than a reflector, all sorts of minor and previously unnoticable issues become very noticable.  

 

I have seen people bash away at tablet and e-ink screens,yes.  But I also think that tiny air bubbles trapped during the sealing process, or even tiny differentials in how much glue is present, can over time lead to areas where the glue weakens either from bonking, from temperature or both and in the glow screens, become noticable.  

 

In my case, I replaced my first NSTG because of cloudiness / unevenness of lighting.  This was a problem in the first run of NSTGs, and my local store thought I was a bit batty but replaced the device.

 

My girflriend's NSTG just developed a light tear at Christmastime.  I don't think she did anything terrible to it, and has one of the Barnes and Noble covers for it, even, but she's not as careful with covers / devices as I am.  

 

However, she's aware of the risk and has been careful with the device - it's been in the BN cover for many months.  It developed the light leak during or just after a longish drive (~300 miles.)

 

As far as me, I've dropped my devices and done stupid things to them now and again - it's just that I'm usually aware of it :smileyhappy:  

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ImpliedConsent
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Re: Defective Nook GlowLight #2


Mercury_Glitch wrote:

Agreed.  I'm not going to pretend the NSTG screens are perfect, but it's clearly working for many people.  Which makes me think that some NSTGs go bad on their own, and some are given a little help by their owners however unintentional that help may be. 

 

Is it something B&N should look at and try to fix?  Yes. 

 

Hopefully we'll see a better model this spring.


I'm not saying I treat my NGL like a baby - far from it. I use it like it's intended. Touchscreen, buttons, etc. No different than my Xoom. My nook first edition went back and forth from Afghanistan. It's dirty, it's ugly, (my wife calls it nasty), it works on it's own time, not mine ... but ... it never failed. Since the NGL is only my second nook, I expected a little better experience. I did not expect it to develop these glowholes with everyday use.  Yes, it will go back to Afghanistan (OK, a replacement NGL) and I expect that it should (hardware-wise) hold up just as well or better than my first edition.

 

Yes - B&N will replace it. Yes - B&N owns the proper engineering and QA. Yes - my bet is this: this is more of a wide-spread issue than what you are portraying.  Do not be fooled that because someone does not come onto these forums and complains or the anecdotal evidence of returns at 1 store is the answer.  My bet is more call the 1-800 number for replacements.

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Mercury_Glitch
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Re: Defective Nook GlowLight #2


ImpliedConsent wrote:

Mercury_Glitch wrote:

Agreed.  I'm not going to pretend the NSTG screens are perfect, but it's clearly working for many people.  Which makes me think that some NSTGs go bad on their own, and some are given a little help by their owners however unintentional that help may be. 

 

Is it something B&N should look at and try to fix?  Yes. 

 

Hopefully we'll see a better model this spring.


I'm not saying I treat my NGL like a baby - far from it. I use it like it's intended. Touchscreen, buttons, etc. No different than my Xoom. My nook first edition went back and forth from Afghanistan. It's dirty, it's ugly, (my wife calls it nasty), it works on it's own time, not mine ... but ... it never failed. Since the NGL is only my second nook, I expected a little better experience. I did not expect it to develop these glowholes with everyday use.  Yes, it will go back to Afghanistan (OK, a replacement NGL) and I expect that it should (hardware-wise) hold up just as well or better than my first edition.

 

Yes - B&N will replace it. Yes - B&N owns the proper engineering and QA. Yes - my bet is this: this is more of a wide-spread issue than what you are portraying.  Do not be fooled that because someone does not come onto these forums and complains or the anecdotal evidence of returns at 1 store is the answer.  My bet is more call the 1-800 number for replacements.


 

I base it off personal experience with my NSTG, and one of my aunts who has a NSTG, my stores returns, and the forums.  There have been more widespread issues which get more hits on the forums. 

 

I would wager that maybe 15% of the NSTGs can develop holes on their own, maybe an extra 5% can if outside forces (how it's handled, environmental factors, etc) are not ideal for the NSTG. 

The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills, and we are only the thread of the Pattern.
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roustabout
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Re: Defective Nook GlowLight #2

MG writes "maybe 15% of the NSTGs can develop holes on their own, maybe an extra 5% an if outside forces (how it's handled, environmental factors, etc) are not ideal"

 

Wow - if that's accurate, it's a completely unacceptable failure rate but it would explain why many folks have repeat failures, even those who treat the devices well.

 

Again, my take on it is that there are issues inherent to using the screen surface as a light guide that exist but don't cause any trouble on the NSTs.

 

I'm curious:  what's a more widespread hardware fault that you see folks returning devices over?  

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Mercury_Glitch
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Re: Defective Nook GlowLight #2

[ Edited ]

roustabout wrote:

MG writes "maybe 15% of the NSTGs can develop holes on their own, maybe an extra 5% an if outside forces (how it's handled, environmental factors, etc) are not ideal"

 

Wow - if that's accurate, it's a completely unacceptable failure rate but it would explain why many folks have repeat failures, even those who treat the devices well.

 

Again, my take on it is that there are issues inherent to using the screen surface as a light guide that exist but don't cause any trouble on the NSTs.

 

I'm curious:  what's a more widespread hardware fault that you see folks returning devices over?  


It's hard to get a more exact figure since we don't know when the failing NSTGs were manufactured, I'm sure corporate could trace that information, but at a store level all I can get is when it was purchased, and that's only after entering the SN or the email on the account.  I also bumped it up because I'm sure that not everyone comes in or posts. 

 

Generally with the NST/G Nooks they come in with one of a few issues.

 

1) Frozen Nook.  Generally this is solved by either holding the power button for 20s, or by charging the Nook for a good solid 30mins via a wall outlet not the computer (it may be possible to charge via computer to fix it, but given the variables in how much power USB ports are given I find it's better to go with the more regulated outlet).

 

2) Broken screen.  A part of the screen has become stuck and wont change no matter what is done.  Store support likes to insist that you can get around this by doing various resets.  I have yet to see that solve this issue.  Generally this results in a replacement Nook.  If you remember a few weeks back there was a troll on the forums posting about how B&N wouldn't fix screens.  That sort of screen break is what I'm talking about.

 

3) Touch screen is no longer responsive.  Generally cleaning the screen solves this problem.  If cleaning does not appear to fix it right off, forcing a reboot by holding the power button for 20s has been effective.  I suspect this is caused by the sensors just having a memory so to speak of a trigger.  Powering off clears that memory.  That is speculation though.

 

 

Software wise the biggest issue I see in the store is the Nook not remembering the page you were on.  While there are other methods to fix this, such as archiving and redownloading that book, I have found erasing and deregistering is the most effective fix.  I'll let the customer decide what to try, but even then more often than not it takes an erase to fix this. 

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roustabout
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Re: Defective Nook GlowLight #2

OK, of the three, I would put only the second (screen not refreshing over part but not all of its surface) in the same category as the light bleed, since the frozen nook and touchscreen not responding issues are clearable a lot of the time.  

 

It feels from the forums, at least, as if more folks are getting the hotspots with the light on, but perhaps we hear more about it because it's frustrating in a way that outright failure isn't - the device works fine under many circumstances, but it's enough of a hassle that you do need to return it to BN to address it. 

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ImpliedConsent
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Re: Defective Nook GlowLight #2

Mercury_Glitch wrote:

 

I base it off personal experience with my NSTG, and one of my aunts who has a NSTG, my stores returns, and the forums.  There have been more widespread issues which get more hits on the forums. 

 

I would wager that maybe 15% of the NSTGs can develop holes on their own, maybe an extra 5% can if outside forces (how it's handled, environmental factors, etc) are not ideal for the NSTG. 

__________________________________________________________________________________
Not wanting to fight, but it's funny that "how it's handled" could get into a conversation. My n1e spent countless hours on my back, stuffed inside a rucksack. That ruck in turn, has been thrown, dropped, kicked, shot at, enjoyed an IED-ride and overall abused.  My n1e has always been in the ruck (granted, prior to deployment, I did the right thing by protecting the shiny glass and the bevels and gave it a Chinese-made-no-name-cover).  The most I'd ever have to do is the 20s hold-button thing (well, maybe charge it too).  I won't even begin to talk about how I handle a smart-phone (that would be OT).

  My replacement (NGL) was fated for the same experience (it too is protected like n1e, but it has an actual 'nook' branded-Chinese cover); however, even before we leave, it has not experience anything other than being in a backpack.  I fear that with sudden glowholes are a clue that this thing just might not make it back (RIP) if I treat it like I did the n1e.  I think I'll take my n1e as a backup. Its 'been there, done that'. 

Sorry, my drivel above is just a vent.... carry on, nothing to see. :smileytongue:

 

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Re: Defective Nook GlowLight #2


ImpliedConsent wrote:
Mercury_Glitch wrote:

 

I base it off personal experience with my NSTG, and one of my aunts who has a NSTG, my stores returns, and the forums.  There have been more widespread issues which get more hits on the forums. 

 

I would wager that maybe 15% of the NSTGs can develop holes on their own, maybe an extra 5% can if outside forces (how it's handled, environmental factors, etc) are not ideal for the NSTG. 

__________________________________________________________________________________
Not wanting to fight, but it's funny that "how it's handled" could get into a conversation. My n1e spent countless hours on my back, stuffed inside a rucksack. That ruck in turn, has been thrown, dropped, kicked, shot at, enjoyed an IED-ride and overall abused.  My n1e has always been in the ruck (granted, prior to deployment, I did the right thing by protecting the shiny glass and the bevels and gave it a Chinese-made-no-name-cover).  The most I'd ever have to do is the 20s hold-button thing (well, maybe charge it too).  I won't even begin to talk about how I handle a smart-phone (that would be OT).

  My replacement (NGL) was fated for the same experience (it too is protected like n1e, but it has an actual 'nook' branded-Chinese cover); however, even before we leave, it has not experience anything other than being in a backpack.  I fear that with sudden glowholes are a clue that this thing just might not make it back (RIP) if I treat it like I did the n1e.  I think I'll take my n1e as a backup. Its 'been there, done that'. 

Sorry, my drivel above is just a vent.... carry on, nothing to see. :smileytongue:

 


 

Nah, we seem to be on pretty much the same page.  The N1E was a very basic device, the screen could break, but there was less in the screen that could break. 

 

The NSTG is actually several layers, and it's the breakdown of one of those layers that causes the issue.  Be it through the glue not holding, the layer cracking, etc. 

 

I suspect that the N1E you had was not just in a case but the sack you had it in was packed if not with nice soft cushions, then at least to the point that things weren't flying around entirely loose in side.  Even getting chucked around a bit like that should be fine for the NSTG, I keep mine in a jacket pocket and I've knocked it in to sharp edges from time to time, it still works perfectly.  Granted I'm not putting force in to those knocks. 

 

I think bringing your N1E along is a wise move.

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tmr4
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Re: Defective Nook GlowLight #2

I don't think the glowholes are an indication that the NSTG will not last. I'd guess it remains as useful as the N1E, likely more so because in a pinch I'd bet most folks would put up with the glowholes versus not reading at all which is what you would do with a N1E without a light.
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bobstro
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Re: Defective Nook GlowLight #2

[ Edited ]

Well, this has been an interesting read. I only just talked myself out of buying an NSTG on impulse this week, and reading this thread, I'm glad I did. Up until doing so, I'd been convinced that the "tear" issue was a problem due to production issues with early units, based on Roust's description. Now Mercury seems to be indicating that failure rates of up to 15% are considered normal by B&N. Apparently, B&N is willing to blame these failures on users, as MG and others are so quick to insinutate "misuse". Isn't it odd that people who have used previous NOOKs with no problem are suddenly unable to use the NSTG properly? This has me convinced that the NSTG is a defective product. If users like Roust are the sorts you think abuse their devices -- he's had multiple failures after all -- then I'm not sure I'm able to use it without "abusing" it. (you know, touching it.)

 

I'm going to wait for the next glow device, and then only for a few months to see if it's as fragile as the NST apparenlty is. Then again, that little Kobo Mini sitting next to it at B&N is pretty cute.

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ImpliedConsent
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Re: Defective Nook GlowLight #2


bobstro wrote:

Well, this has been an interesting read. I only just talked myself out of buying an NSTG on impulse this week, and reading this thread, I'm glad I did. Up until doing so, I'd been convinced that the "tear" issue was a problem due to production issues with early units, based on Roust's description. Now Mercury seems to be indicating that failure rates of up to 15% are considered normal by B&N. Apparently, B&N is willing to blame these failures on users, as MG and others are so quick to insinutate "misuse". Isn't it odd that people who have used previous NOOKs with no problem are suddenly unable to use the NSTG properly? This has me convinced that the NSTG is a defective product. If users like Roust are the sorts you think abuse their devices -- he's had multiple failures after all -- then I'm not sure I'm able to use it without "abusing" it. (you know, touching it.)

 

I'm going to wait for the next glow device, and then only for a few months to see if it's as fragile as the NST apparenlty is. Then again, that little Kobo Mini sitting next to it at B&N is pretty cute.


Whoa, not so fast. What you are not reading are all the benefits. If the 15% holds, then there is 85% that you'll get a NGL that is just fine. What I have found is:  BATTERY LIFE - HOLY CRAP FOREVER; Excellent Light; Lightweight; touchscreen; cheap (as in money); B&N bene's... etc. I mentioned this before - this is NOT the place to be judging the product (a support forum) with anecdotal evidence.  I say doet ... I WANT my NGL to be perfect and it was up until self-developed glowlights (I posted picks on another thread).

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FulltimeRVer
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Re: Defective Nook GlowLight #2


bobstro wrote:

Well, this has been an interesting read. I only just talked myself out of buying an NSTG on impulse this week, and reading this thread, I'm glad I did. Up until doing so, I'd been convinced that the "tear" issue was a problem due to production issues with early units, based on Roust's description. Now Mercury seems to be indicating that failure rates of up to 15% are considered normal by B&N....


Remember, that 15% was mere speculation from one forum member.  It's what I call an "Internet fact": one guy makes it up and others quote it as "what everybody knows."

Dave
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Mercury_Glitch
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Re: Defective Nook GlowLight #2


bobstro wrote:

Well, this has been an interesting read. I only just talked myself out of buying an NSTG on impulse this week, and reading this thread, I'm glad I did. Up until doing so, I'd been convinced that the "tear" issue was a problem due to production issues with early units, based on Roust's description. Now Mercury seems to be indicating that failure rates of up to 15% are considered normal by B&N. Apparently, B&N is willing to blame these failures on users, as MG and others are so quick to insinutate "misuse". Isn't it odd that people who have used previous NOOKs with no problem are suddenly unable to use the NSTG properly? This has me convinced that the NSTG is a defective product. If users like Roust are the sorts you think abuse their devices -- he's had multiple failures after all -- then I'm not sure I'm able to use it without "abusing" it. (you know, touching it.)

 

I'm going to wait for the next glow device, and then only for a few months to see if it's as fragile as the NST apparenlty is. Then again, that little Kobo Mini sitting next to it at B&N is pretty cute.


 

As I said, it's speculation, and rounded up at every chance for the customers who don't come to the store or post on the forums.  It's certainly higher than it should be, but the chances you would get one are still unlikely.

 

I and other tack on missue as a possible factor.  I think my estimates were pretty generous towards customers not misusing their NSTG versus flat out defective NSTGs. 

 

It's also important to remember that the NSTG is not the same as the N1E nor the NST.  The NST actually can have the same issue that causes the glowholes in the NSTG but since there is no light you wont notice it unless you inspect every centimeter of your NSTG screen with something stronger than the naked eye.

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bobstro
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Re: Defective Nook GlowLight #2

MG, am I correct in understanding that you ARE saying that the return rate for the NSTG is markedly higher than for the NST? I've been anticipating using a glow device as a self-illuminating NST. This discussion makes it sound like I'd have to treat a NSTG differently. For our servicemember heading overseas where, I assume, B&N will not be next door, this is a pretty serious consideration.

 

I realize the NSTG is still "usable" with the screen defects, but having seen some of those pictures, I suspect they might be enough to trigger my migranes. Driving at night can be a real challenge, never mind focusing on a page with a headlight in the middle.

 

I have high hopes for the technology, but it looks like the Amazon glow devices have their own screen issues. I'm more inclined to wait another 6 months to see what shakes out. I do like reading in bed with the NST while stuck in hotel rooms for business travel, but there's sufficient illumination there to read comfortably.

 

So roustabout and the rest of you who have NSTGs, would you say the gain has been worthwhile overall?

 

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Ya_Ya
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Worth it, at least for me!

[ Edited ]

bobstro wrote:

 

So roustabout and the rest of you who have NSTGs, would you say the gain has been worthwhile overall? 


Mind you, my NSTG has not developed any tears, so I'm basing this on only having experience with one (perfectly functioning) NSTG.  

 

I have only touched my NST to put it back into it's packaging since the NSTG was gifted to me.  The contrast is slightly less good on the NSTG than it was on the NST, but probably at least as good as it was on the N1E, which I found/find perfectly acceptable.  This is more than made up for by turning the glowlight on at very low brightness even in bright ambient light.

 

I love the NSTG.  It's everything I'd want in an ereader and nothing I don't need; I have a tablet for internet, calendars, apps, etc...  

 

My NSTG is registered to a dummy B&N account so all of my books are sideloaded to my SD card.

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Mercury_Glitch
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Re: Defective Nook GlowLight #2


bobstro wrote:

MG, am I correct in understanding that you ARE saying that the return rate for the NSTG is markedly higher than for the NST? I've been anticipating using a glow device as a self-illuminating NST. This discussion makes it sound like I'd have to treat a NSTG differently. For our servicemember heading overseas where, I assume, B&N will not be next door, this is a pretty serious consideration.

 

I realize the NSTG is still "usable" with the screen defects, but having seen some of those pictures, I suspect they might be enough to trigger my migranes. Driving at night can be a real challenge, never mind focusing on a page with a headlight in the middle.

 

I have high hopes for the technology, but it looks like the Amazon glow devices have their own screen issues. I'm more inclined to wait another 6 months to see what shakes out. I do like reading in bed with the NST while stuck in hotel rooms for business travel, but there's sufficient illumination there to read comfortably.

 

So roustabout and the rest of you who have NSTGs, would you say the gain has been worthwhile overall?

 


 

No, I would say the NST and NSTG have approximately the same return rate for defective or damaged units, which is relatively low at least from what I can confirm.

 

In the year since the NSTG has been out I've seen maybe 5 NSTGs with tears, and that's rounding up.  The Nook manager for my store says he's seen about the same, maybe a little higher, and one of the other managers said he has seen one or two.  I know the ones I saw were not the ones the Nook manager saw, and I'll assume the one or two the other manager saw were also unique devices.  I'll also be generous and say the Nook Manager saw 10.  That's 17 devices in a year.  I don't have the sales numbers handy since I'm at home, but I can assure you we've more than enough NSTGs for the stores 'tear' percentage to be under the 15% I estimated.  This again presumes they come back to the same store, and that they even notice.  Yes, I've had customers with NSTGs who never used the glowlight and thus never noticed any issues.  Why then did I estimate so high?  Because one store does not an accurate picture make, and there seem to be those who have had multiple bad devices.

 

 

As to the overall gain I've had with my NSTG, I love it.

 

As Ya Ya mentioned the contrast is slightly less than the NST, but it's not very noticable unless you hold the two devices next to each other.  Keeping the light on will all but eliminate that issue if it bothers you.

 

I keep my light somewhere around 10% if not lower, and I would be hard pressed to think of a situation where even 50% would be required to be able to read to say nothing of 100%.

 

I replaced my NST about a month after the NSTG was announced, it was one of the first NSTGs my store recieved that was not set aside for customer preorders.

The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills, and we are only the thread of the Pattern.