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NyTeMair
Posts: 19
Registered: ‎07-24-2012
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Re: An Open Letter to Barnes and Noble Management -- Nook Division

I got beat to the punch by illmunkeys, and he is exactly right. I have run a customer service business and while icebike also has a point B&N needs to upgrade it's support. Callback queue setups are not that expensive and would go along way in showing B&N's customers they care. Another, and I think much more customer destroying issue is the draconian DRM! My wife's Nook is kind of her lifeline while she is doing her kidney dialysis. Her Nook locked up and I spent 40 minutes on the phone to get a in store replacement. We waited the two hours as requested by the customer service email and rushed over so that we could get her Nook just in time for her dialysis. All good right, wrong, as she tried to read the book she was so into it refused to allow her access as we had canceled the credit card a day or two before as it was lost or stolen. We had a new one sent but it would be 10 to 14 days before it would arrive. I thought that was wrong since we had already paid for all these books and were told everything would be available on the new Nook as soon as it was registered to our account.

 

Customer service said sorry you have to have a valid credit card in order to access your already purchased books. It's our DRM policy, I explained the situation and asked if there was any way we could get her access to even one book that we already paid for. Yes, I was told, put a new valid credit card on your account. I asked to speak to a supervisor, I was told yes just let the customer service person put me on hold for a minute. Nearly 20 minutes later a man came on and I explained the situation again to him and asked what could be done to help us. This man said 'you'll need a new credit card, after that all your books will be available.' I told him that was just not possible till we get the new card and it wasn't right. He said he was sorry that I felt that way. I asked him about after we re-download all the books we already paid for would it still check the credit card. He said 'yes, now and then, kind of at random it would check and if there was a problem with the card we would not be able to access our books.' That sent me off the deep end! That is just not right, so we don't own the Nook or the books we paid for, we are simply renting/leasing them from B&N! It would be like we were sitting in our bedroom at night reading the great new book. At that moment in an office of B&N they check our credit card and if there is any issue with it they could send someone over to break into our home, come into our bedroom, and take my book from me!

 

It isn't right and I'm going to file complaints with the Federal Trade Commission, BBB, Washington State and U.S. Federal AG's offices and the FCC. I would like to talk to anyone who has had simular issues and might be interested in talking to attorneys. That level of DRM has no place in this context and it is not made clear to you before you buy/rent the Nook and/or buy/lease your books. Where my family and I were great mouth pieces and sales people for B&N and Nook we are giong to be at least as good broadcasting the fraud and draconian DRM.

 

It really is sad for us as we really loved B&N and the Nook.

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RHWright
Posts: 1,551
Registered: ‎10-21-2009

Re: An Open Letter to Barnes and Noble Management -- Nook Division


NyTeMair wrote: I asked him about after we re-download all the books we already paid for would it still check the credit card. He said 'yes, now and then, kind of at random it would check and if there was a problem with the card we would not be able to access our books.'


I've never heard this before. Credit card problems can stop you from purchasing or downloading an already purchased book, but I've never heard of it blocking reading of an already downloaded book. (Maybe by "access" he meant further downloads?)

 

Can anyone else confirm this anecdotally or from direct statement from B&N? (I'm not calling the veracity of the OP's statement into question, I've just heard of too many instances of inconsistent or incorrect statements made by CS, so I was wondering what the consensus of experience is.)

 

To the longer rant: the TOS (essentially you buy a limited "license" to books as electronic content) is what it is. The DRM is what it is. None of these are secrets. They readily and clearly accessible at bn.com and have been chewed over ad nauseum here. Sorry it wasn't "clear" to you.

 

 

Correspondent
jaquellae
Posts: 201
Registered: ‎08-27-2010

Re: An Open Letter to Barnes and Noble Management -- Nook Division

I'd like to propose a potential solution. As far as I'm aware, books already downloaded should not be affected by changing your card # on your account. If you have the nook software on a computer at home and the books already downloaded on it, you can plug the new nook into it and trasfer the books that way. The nook may ask for your credit card # (use the one on your B&N account at the time of downloading), but you'll still be able to read the books.

 

I'd like to put in a caveat - *most* ebooks sold now, including those from B&N, Amazon, Kobo and other sites - have DRM. The exceptions tend to be from smaller independant publishers. How they handle it is different. Most, besides B&N, have DRM tied to the device and limit the amount of devices that can be activated.B&N's DRM is one they inherited/bought when the bought Fictionwise, back about the time the nook was first released.

 

 

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keriflur
Posts: 4,347
Registered: ‎01-05-2010

Re: An Open Letter to Barnes and Noble Management -- Nook Division


RHWright wrote:

NyTeMair wrote: I asked him about after we re-download all the books we already paid for would it still check the credit card. He said 'yes, now and then, kind of at random it would check and if there was a problem with the card we would not be able to access our books.'


I've never heard this before. Credit card problems can stop you from purchasing or downloading an already purchased book, but I've never heard of it blocking reading of an already downloaded book. (Maybe by "access" he meant further downloads?)

 

Can anyone else confirm this anecdotally or from direct statement from B&N? (I'm not calling the veracity of the OP's statement into question, I've just heard of too many instances of inconsistent or incorrect statements made by CS, so I was wondering what the consensus of experience is.)

 


I suspect that this is true based on other past threads.  However, it's important to note that when you are not connected to wifi, B&N CANNOT contact your nook or do ANYTHING with your books.  So, remember to turn off your wifi when you are not using it.

 

Also, BACK UP YOUR BOOKS ON YOUR PC.  If you have all your books backed up, and you know the credit card that was on the account at the time you downloaded them, then you can sideload those books and open them on the nook regardless of what's going on with your account and whether or not you have a credit card on file.

 

In any case, you (the OP) can contact all those agencies, but B&N is not doing anything illegal and they're not attempting to mislead you (it's all in the various TOS docs).  So, contact if it makes you feel better, but I suspect you will be shouting into the wind.

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NyTeMair
Posts: 19
Registered: ‎07-24-2012
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Re: An Open Letter to Barnes and Noble Management -- Nook Division

Nope I made certain to check with him multiple times and also talked to store managers and other customer service representatives! The reason you don't know about it is because they don't like to make it well known!
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NyTeMair
Posts: 19
Registered: ‎07-24-2012
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Re: An Open Letter to Barnes and Noble Management -- Nook Division

We will have to differ on the legality and if indeed B&N is trying to mislead anyone. When they explained to us that we needed a valid credit card to register and purchase a book and that was it, by not making us aware of the need for a valid cc to recall archived books, already purchased books, and if at anytime in the future if there is a cc issue we may lose access to already purchased and downloaded books as well. Does that constitute misleading? I would argue it does, perhaps you would not, at the very least it is not resonable or just. While my complaints to those agencies may fall on deaf ears, just like it did with B&N, the people I know and the groups we belong to will give me the chance to present my case thus causing a good percentage of current and potential B&N customers to re-think doing business with them.

 

Current corprate behavior that would have been considered unconscionable a couple decades ago is now so common place as to seem normal to many people. Burying things in the fine print is one of those practices. You see, I understand that to B&N we are a numbers game, acceptable losses. I want them to understand that while we were happy campers we went out of our way to give B&N a good name, products and services as gifts, and spent a fair amount of money with them as well. When my wifes company was going to give Kindles as gifts we talked them into Nooks, and many instances like that. Now we feel like fools, and I am going to have to appologize to a lot of people when I tell them we lead them astray. 

 

In any case it is obvious you are still happy with B&N and the draconian DRM they have so you aren't going to understand our point of view. I pray you remain happy and don't get askew of their policies...

Distinguished Scribe
Ya_Ya
Posts: 3,279
Registered: ‎09-29-2010

Re: An Open Letter to Barnes and Noble Management -- Nook Division


NyTeMair wrote:

 

In any case it is obvious you are still happy with B&N and the draconian DRM they have so you aren't going to understand our point of view. I pray you remain happy and don't get askew of their policies...


The "draconian DRM" is the only commonly-used DRM scheme which makes it easy to share books with people not on your account.  I have shared books with my father-in-law, with my best friend, with a coworker, with one of my husband's coworkers and with a couple other girlfriends.

 

Can't do that with Kindle books (unless you break the law and strip the DRM) or with any of the other epub sellers ebooks.

 

So, I don't find it draconian - at all. 

 

For the record, if I had a credit card issue like you describe, I'd have temporarily put my debit card or another card on my account.  No harm, no foul.  

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keriflur
Posts: 4,347
Registered: ‎01-05-2010
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Re: An Open Letter to Barnes and Noble Management -- Nook Division


NyTeMair wrote:
In any case it is obvious you are still happy with B&N and the draconian DRM they have so you aren't going to understand our point of view. I pray you remain happy and don't get askew of their policies...

So, am I understanding you correctly?  You're really just here to complain and not to learn how to make the most of your nook experience by learning how to get EXACTLY what you want?  Fine, good luck with that.

 

If you want to remain miserable, don't let us stop you.

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bklvr896
Posts: 4,434
Registered: ‎12-31-2009
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Re: An Open Letter to Barnes and Noble Management -- Nook Division

Well I've changed credit cards and have had no issues accessing any of my books, regardless of which credit card used to purchase the book do I haven't lost any access. If you have the books downloaded to your computer, turn off the wifi and side load them. You should only have to input your credit card info once and all te books will open.
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jaquellae
Posts: 201
Registered: ‎08-27-2010
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Re: An Open Letter to Barnes and Noble Management -- Nook Division


keriflur wrote:

NyTeMair wrote:
In any case it is obvious you are still happy with B&N and the draconian DRM they have so you aren't going to understand our point of view. I pray you remain happy and don't get askew of their policies...

So, am I understanding you correctly?  You're really just here to complain and not to learn how to make the most of your nook experience by learning how to get EXACTLY what you want?  Fine, good luck with that.

 

If you want to remain miserable, don't let us stop you.


I have to agree with keriflur. Understanding how DRM works doesn't mean I like it; I just live with it as a price of using ebooks. If I had my way (and a magic wand), I'd do away DRM right now. I've been burned by it before - I have 80+ DRM locked Mobipocket ebooks that I'd love to put (legally) on my nook. I agree - B&N could do better at explaining DRM and backing up your ebooks, but I also think that about the other major eBook retailers. I also think it's sad that you can learn more (sometimes) browsing these forums than talking to actual B&N employees, but sometimes other users are better sources of knowledge.

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Haleakala_LKB
Posts: 524
Registered: ‎10-27-2010

Re: An Open Letter to Barnes and Noble Management -- Nook Division


NyTeMair wrote:

 <snip>

 

In any case it is obvious you are still happy with B&N and the draconian DRM they have so you aren't going to understand our point of view. I pray you remain happy and don't get askew of their policies...


I actually LIKE BN DRM, as opposed to Amazon/Kindle. As I understand it, to share books among friends and family we would need to have Kindles all registered to the same account. With our NOOKs, we just share the file. A one time input of the CC# and my daughter and I can take turns buying books we both want, rather than each having to purchase them. 

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keriflur
Posts: 4,347
Registered: ‎01-05-2010

Re: An Open Letter to Barnes and Noble Management -- Nook Division


Haleakala_LKB wrote:

NyTeMair wrote:

 <snip>

 

In any case it is obvious you are still happy with B&N and the draconian DRM they have so you aren't going to understand our point of view. I pray you remain happy and don't get askew of their policies...


I actually LIKE BN DRM, as opposed to Amazon/Kindle. As I understand it, to share books among friends and family we would need to have Kindles all registered to the same account. With our NOOKs, we just share the file. A one time input of the CC# and my daughter and I can take turns buying books we both want, rather than each having to purchase them. 


I saw how hard it is to share non-B&N books this weekend when I went to share books with my mom.  Sharing the B&N books was super easy, but we I couldn't share my ADE books because she already has her own ADE account, and we've have to use the same account to be able to share.

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