Since 1997, you’ve been coming to BarnesandNoble.com to discuss everything from Stephen King to writing to Harry Potter. You’ve made our site more than a place to discover your next book: you’ve made it a community. But like all things internet, BN.com is growing and changing. We've said goodbye to our community message boards—but that doesn’t mean we won’t still be a place for adventurous readers to connect and discover.

Now, you can explore the most exciting new titles (and remember the classics) at the Barnes & Noble Book Blog. Check out conversations with authors like Jeff VanderMeer and Gary Shteyngart at the B&N Review, and browse write-ups of the best in literary fiction. Come to our Facebook page to weigh in on what it means to be a book nerd. Browse digital deals on the NOOK blog, tweet about books with us,or self-publish your latest novella with NOOK Press. And for those of you looking for support for your NOOK, the NOOK Support Forums will still be here.

We will continue to provide you with books that make you turn pages well past midnight, discover new worlds, and reunite with old friends. And we hope that you’ll continue to tell us how you’re doing, what you’re reading, and what books mean to you.

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Correspondent
htbyron
Posts: 128
Registered: ‎06-16-2010
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Re: Barnes & Noble May Sell Company -- huh?


very-simple wrote:

 

<snip>

In addition to the fact that, in practical terms, there's no injured party to sue, since you're breaking B&N's DRM, and B&N wouldn't exist anymore.

<snip>

 


Sam:  I would disagree with this assessment, even apart from the correction about whether there is an exception for necessity under DMCA.  Publishers and authors would almost certainly view themselves as injured by removal of DRM from ebook files, even if the seller no longer exists.  I am far from an expert in DMCA, but I believe they could make a reasonable case that they have standing to sue in such a circumstance, not least because they are the relevant holders of the copyrights at issue.

 

Tom

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ebooker
Posts: 13
Registered: ‎01-24-2010
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Re: Barnes & Noble May Sell Company

I agree also.  B&N has dug themselves into this hole where they make almost nothing or even less than nothing from the sell of the ereader so that their customers can buy elsewhere or get their books from the library.  When it first came out they made at least some money on the device, now not so much.  I hope they get their act together, but if I was going to buy a Nook now, I wouldn't.  The economy is such that everyone is looking for a bargain and the Nook certainly allows for that, since the device is at cost and you can get free books from the library, but that is not helping B&N's bottom line and certainly won't make it possible for them to be around next year this time.  

 

Paper books have become a luxury item in the past year.  People are more likely to look for them in used book stores or borrow from friends or borrow from the library.  Unless you are one of the few that still has a good job and make good money, you are not going to be patronizing your local B&N.  Go in a store, look around, how many people do you see in the store?  Half of what you saw last year?  A quarter?  That is not helping B&N's bottom line either.    

Doug_Pardee
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NOOK costs


ebooker wrote:

 

B&N has dug themselves into this hole where they make almost nothing or even less than nothing from the sell of the ereader


Do you know something we don't? People who know more than I about such things have said that the NOOK design is fairly inexpensive to produce, and considerably less expensive to produce than the Kindle 2's design. Aside from the E-Ink film and its underlying controller, and the license for Adobe Reader Mobile, the NOOK is mainly plastic and a few relatively inexpensive mass-market hardware components and royalty-free software components.

 

Additionally, a cost-reduced version of the 3G NOOK seems to be on its way, so that should improve profit margins on the device even more.

 

B&N fired the first shot in the most recent round of price-cuts. I don't think they did that just to lose money. :smileywink:

 

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Nook_Library
Posts: 72
Registered: ‎08-02-2010
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Re: Barnes & Noble May Sell Company


ebooker wrote:

I agree also.  B&N has dug themselves into this hole where they make almost nothing or even less than nothing from the sell of the ereader so that their customers can buy elsewhere or get their books from the library. 


 

If people are buying elsewhere it's probably because they're getting ebooks cheaper with someone else. B&N needs to stay on top of the pricing of there ebooks to stay competitive. If I decide to buy a book, I'm going to see who sells it the cheapest. In order to keep my business B&N needs to make sure they're priced competitively.

 

 

 

Correspondent
TravP
Posts: 66
Registered: ‎07-20-2010
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Re: DMCA exemptions

The eBookNewser blog interprets the US Copyright Office statement on ebooks to mean that DRM can be hacked if text-to-sepech tracks are disabled. Here's the link:

 

http://www.mediabistro.com/ebooknewser/legislation/jailbreaking_drmenabled_ebooks_now_legal_in_some_... 

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Alley415
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Registered: ‎12-10-2009
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Re: Barnes & Noble May Sell Company

 


swollen_ostrich wrote:

 


h2oskierc wrote:

Alley415 wrote:

The problem is that B&N hasn't turned the profit that was expected by the nook and ebooks.  Something is not connecting there. 

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Barnes-Noble-Reports-Fiscal-bw-429207321.html?x=0


Funny, I don't read that anywhere in that article.

 

 

I did read this, however (which is exactly the opposite of Alley415's contention):

 

“We are pleased that in the fourth quarter each of our three channels of business have all gained significant share: physical bookstores, digital books and books sold online at bn.com. In fact, in just a brief 12 months since we launched the Barnes and Noble ebookstore, our share of the digital market already exceeds our share of the retail book market,” said William Lynch, chief executive officer of Barnes & Noble, Inc.


 

Market share doesn't mean much unless you can continue to turn a profit.  That is like an attorney saying he got 100 new clients over the prior year and that it doesn't matter that he lost money on every one of them.

 

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Alley415
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Registered: ‎12-10-2009
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Re: Barnes & Noble May Sell Company -- huh?

 


Sky1VJ wrote:

I do not know if this is the right forum to post this in, but here goes!

 

Amazon's Kindles are temporarily sold out according to the website and news reports. I think B&N has an opportunity to take advantage of this situation. If B&N lowered the prices of both versions of their Nooks to match the price of the KIndles ($139 for WiFi only Nook, $189 for 3G and WiFi Nook), I believe people would take notice.

 

First of all, the later people wait to order a Kindle online, the longer they will have to wait for their Kindle to arrive. If people went to a B&N store or online and saw that the Nook is priced the same as a Kindle, if inside a bricks and mortar store, they would be able to purchase a Nook and take it home the same day, instead of waiting until Sept 4 for the Kindle to arrive at their homes. If people decide to order online, they would receive their Nooks way before Sept. 4.

 

Ebooks are big business and I think e-readers are going to be the most wished for item on Christmas lists this year. Someone looking to buy a e-reader as a gift for the holidays can purchase one quickly and have it wrapped and ready to place under the tree come December.

This way, people will not have to worry about the issues that occurred last year with the launch of the Nook (late arrivals, technical problems, short supply, etc).

 

Take advantage of this opportunity B&N! The Nook boutiques in the stores is a good start because people can try and and see the Nook and the accessories before making a decision to buy, but B&N also needs to make and air more Nook commercials, offer $20 gift cards with the purchase of a Nook this holiday season!

 

Just my thoughts. :smileyhappy:


 

I disagree.  This didn't work when the nook was announced and won't work now for the Kindle.  People won't switch from one to another just because there is a short wait.  People waited months for the nook.  Also, Amazon has next day and 2 day shipping that is very reliable. 

 

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Alley415
Posts: 708
Registered: ‎12-10-2009
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Re: NOOK costs

 


Doug_Pardee wrote:

ebooker wrote:

 

B&N has dug themselves into this hole where they make almost nothing or even less than nothing from the sell of the ereader


Do you know something we don't? People who know more than I about such things have said that the NOOK design is fairly inexpensive to produce, and considerably less expensive to produce than the Kindle 2's design. Aside from the E-Ink film and its underlying controller, and the license for Adobe Reader Mobile, the NOOK is mainly plastic and a few relatively inexpensive mass-market hardware components and royalty-free software components.

 

Additionally, a cost-reduced version of the 3G NOOK seems to be on its way, so that should improve profit margins on the device even more.

 

B&N fired the first shot in the most recent round of price-cuts. I don't think they did that just to lose money. :smileywink:

 


 

I think they dropped the price because they knew Amazon was about to.  Amazon generally drops the price  a month or two out from a new release. 

 

flyingtoastr
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Re: NOOK costs

 


Alley415 wrote:

 

I think they dropped the price because they knew Amazon was about to.  Amazon generally drops the price  a month or two out from a new release. 

 


 

 

Wrong. The nook lite was in Bookmaster (BN's internal product search engine) sometime around the middle of March. BN was planning on dropping the price of the nook and releasing a newer version long before Amazon gave any inklings about when the K3 was coming out.

Wordsmith
Tim40744
Posts: 536
Registered: ‎07-07-2010
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Re: NOOK costs

 


Doug_Pardee wrote:

ebooker wrote:

 

B&N has dug themselves into this hole where they make almost nothing or even less than nothing from the sell of the ereader


Do you know something we don't? People who know more than I about such things have said that the NOOK design is fairly inexpensive to produce, and considerably less expensive to produce than the Kindle 2's design. Aside from the E-Ink film and its underlying controller, and the license for Adobe Reader Mobile, the NOOK is mainly plastic and a few relatively inexpensive mass-market hardware components and royalty-free software components.

 

 

 


 

 

"With these cuts, ebook readers from Barnes & Noble as well as Amazon now are priced at about the break-even level with their Bill of Materials … and manufacturing costs," William Kidd, director of iSuppli, wrote in a June 24 statement. "With zero profits on their hardware, both these companies now hope to make their money in this market through sale of books."

 

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Desktops-and-Notebooks/Kindle-Nook-Ready-to-Dominate-EReader-Market-374272/

Correspondent
kivvie
Posts: 160
Registered: ‎04-22-2010

Re: NOOK costs

Tempest in a teapot! While individuals may sell assets when they need money, corporations work on a much different economic scale. Selling a business may actually make the business better and more profitable. I know it may not make sense, but economics are triksy little issues!

 

If the worst happens, who exactly is going to come after you for breaking DRM? Consider who made the news for copyright violations on music -- the people who SOLD illiegal music, the people who possessed ILLEGAL music. You purchased the ebook, you can continue to read your ebook. Now, if you go break the DRM and then sell or distribute the ebook, then the publisher may come after you. But .. if you do this in your home, to me, it is the equavilent of ripping the tag off your mattress.

 

I've bought plenty of software for my 386 that is now obsolete. I have 8track tapes with no player for them. And honestly ... being a HUGE reader .. how many of the books do I really reread? Over the course of 10-15 years? Sure I may reread a book once or twice in a couple of years. But .. the ones I really reread (The Great Gatsby, The Little Princess, The Iliad) I either own multiple copies or have purchased multiple copies. I have a copy of Ender's Game that is held together by rubber bands, duct tape, and a prayer. Books, while nice, in modern publishing have never been a "forever" item. Paperbacks, what I equate an ebook to, is ephemeral. You may be able to keep it really nice in your own home for 50 years, but most of them aren't like that. For most ebooks, I spend somewhere between $6-15. I can't go to most movies for $6.00 (matinees, maybe), and I certainly have spent more than $15 on dinner.

 

Take a deep breath. Nobody is going to come rip your ebooks or your nook out of your hand. The economy will recover.

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_deb_
Posts: 290
Registered: ‎02-04-2010
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Re: Barnes & Noble May Sell Company


BUBBA_HO_TEP wrote:

 

I agree. Their is no real incentive to buy from B&N. 

 

 


I've thought about it and disagree with this poster and the others that state the Nook's open library format is a killer to eBook profits for BN.  IMO it offers the best of both worlds.  Yes, you can sideload other content and there are many that take advantage of that feature.  In fact, that capability is a BIG selling point for the Nook.  However, BN has also created a very easy and pleasant eBook shopping experience for Nook owners.  The ease with which you can purchase eBooks from BN feeds the "swipe and buy" world we live in.  People want everything fast and convenient today.  Their food, entertainment, medical care, etc.  

 

For everyone who is techie and frugal enough to search out and sideload less expensive or free books, there is another who either due to lack of knowledge, lack of time, or pure preference for convenience, will simply purchase their books from BN because it is SO easy to do so.  So, does the Nook sell fewer eBooks than Amazon because it promotes an open library - yes.  Does that feature render it "dead in the water" profit wise - definitely not!

Hope to see you later at...



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ABthree
Posts: 4,123
Registered: ‎01-27-2010
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Re: Barnes & Noble May Sell Company

 


_deb_ wrote:
I've thought about it and disagree with this poster and the others that state the Nook's open library format is a killer to eBook profits for BN.  IMO it offers the best of both worlds.  Yes, you can sideload other content and there are many that take advantage of that feature.  In fact, that capability is a BIG selling point for the Nook.  However, BN has also created a very easy and pleasant eBook shopping experience for Nook owners.  The ease with which you can purchase eBooks from BN feeds the "swipe and buy" world we live in. 

I'm with Deb on this one. 
The most freqent reason you read here for a Nook owner buying an eBook from someone other than B&N isn't a lower price elsewhere, but the fact that B&N didn't carry the eBook.  Somtimes price is the driver, but not usually, it seems to me.
With better inventory management, especially with more care to offer all titles in series, or all related titles by one author, I think you'd see Nook owners respond, even if prices weren't always the lowest on Inkmesh, because of the better experience.

 

 

+LORD, preserve the good in their goodness, and+
+in your kindness, make the wicked become good.+
-- St. Basil the Great+
kp1
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kp1
Posts: 60
Registered: ‎10-25-2009
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Re: Barnes & Noble May Sell Company -- huh?

[ Edited ]

 


JoeCA wrote:

 



 

 

If anything, the focus is shifting even more to e-books. Selling e-books has become really big business. And people who own e-book readers tend to buy more books than before. For example, I bought more e-books in the 8 months that I have owned the nook than in the 3-4 years before.

 


 

I agree.  If anything is in danger (whether B&N is sold or not) I would imagine it would be the brick and mortar stores (although I hope not).

 

Wordsmith
Tim40744
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Re: Barnes & Noble May Sell Company -- huh?

[ Edited ]

 

 

Barnes & Noble: The final chapter?The world’s best-known bookstore puts itself up for sale

 

http://www.economist.com/node/16749054?story_id=16749054&fsrc=rss

 

Did Rupert Murdoch buy The Economist? The article is interesting but the title is a bit over-the-top...

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Doc_Nukem
Posts: 129
Registered: ‎12-25-2009
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Re: Barnes & Noble May Sell Company

 


_deb_ wrote:

I've thought about it and disagree with this poster and the others that state the Nook's open library format is a killer to eBook profits for BN.  IMO it offers the best of both worlds.  Yes, you can sideload other content and there are many that take advantage of that feature.  In fact, that capability is a BIG selling point for the Nook.  However, BN has also created a very easy and pleasant eBook shopping experience for Nook owners.  The ease with which you can purchase eBooks from BN feeds the "swipe and buy" world we live in.  People want everything fast and convenient today.  Their food, entertainment, medical care, etc. 


 

 

Another +1 here. The argument that ePub hurts B&N is specious. My guess is that B&N sells more books to people who go into the store and browse than to those looking for a single title. It then follows that if you can easily browse titles on the nook, you are likely to buy directly from them.

 

Even for those looking for a single title, it is just too easy/convenient to search for it and buy it directly from the nook. Whether you suddenly desire a new book after reading a review or are looking for a particular author/title, the time to comparison shop on your computer, download, and then side-load to your nook does not make it worthwhile for most.

Inspired Bibliophile
FrogAlum
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Registered: ‎12-25-2009
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Re: Barnes & Noble May Sell Company

 


ABthree wrote:

 


_deb_ wrote:
I've thought about it and disagree with this poster and the others that state the Nook's open library format is a killer to eBook profits for BN.  IMO it offers the best of both worlds.  Yes, you can sideload other content and there are many that take advantage of that feature.  In fact, that capability is a BIG selling point for the Nook.  However, BN has also created a very easy and pleasant eBook shopping experience for Nook owners.  The ease with which you can purchase eBooks from BN feeds the "swipe and buy" world we live in. 

I'm with Deb on this one. 
The most freqent reason you read here for a Nook owner buying an eBook from someone other than B&N isn't a lower price elsewhere, but the fact that B&N didn't carry the eBook.  Somtimes price is the driver, but not usually, it seems to me.
With better inventory management, especially with more care to offer all titles in series, or all related titles by one author, I think you'd see Nook owners respond, even if prices weren't always the lowest on Inkmesh, because of the better experience.

 

 


 

Well, that depends on how many Sony GC one might still have...  :smileywink:

 

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Zion21
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Registered: ‎06-23-2010
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Re: NOOK costs

Exactly. Since B&N is in direct competition with Amazon they have to pretty much mimick amazon to stay competitive. Just look at the newest gen consoles. When Nintendo lowered prices so did Microsoft and Sony. :smileyhappy:

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paulawylma
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Registered: ‎04-24-2010
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Re: Barnes & Noble May Sell Company

I'm replying to the various comments on drm and what to do if B&N goes under.

 

Disclaimer: I am not an attorney or lawyer, but this is how the drm situation was explained to me.

 

First of all, breaking drm for your own use is not a crime--it is a breach of the user's service agreement where we all clicked "I agree" .  If you break your service agreement you are liable for all the claims that the service agreement lists. 

 

Second, It is a crime to break drm for the purpose of selling or giving the product away--that's what the mp3 lawsuits were about. Those people were not buying a song for themselves and simply transferring that purchased product to another device. They were uploading the song to a website available to the general public and offering downloads of the product for free--that's piracy.

 

Third, If the company goes under, your Nook will still work for reading and sideways downloads from the computer and you will still be able to use Wifi hotspots to read your email. The G probably shouldn't work, but depending on the B&N contract with AT&T and the general competence of those companies, it may continue to work until the bills stop getting paid.:-) (I once brought a used Palm with connectivity that was still on and it took over a month to find someone in the Palm company who was willing to go the extra mile and notify the company that had originally owned the pda to request the line be disconnected. I wasn't authorized to disconnect it!).  Since the Nook reads ADE and pdf, you will still be able to buy books from other sellers and still be able to borrow library books. If your device fails, you will have to search for an independent repair person or sell it for parts so an independent repair person can resell it later.

 

Fourth, if the company goes under, it is likely they will voluntarily release the drm or free people from the user agreement. In any case, if B&N breaks their side of the agreement, then most people would agree that ithe agreement would then be null and void.  B&N has agreed in print,that the storage of your eBooks is a lifetime agreement.  From the webpage:

 

"With Barnes & Noble's Lifetime Library™, your eBook library goes wherever you go and can be enjoyed on your NOOK plus the widest variety of mobile devices, including iPhone® and BlackBerry®."

 

This states that your B&N library is a "Lifetime Library." This also states that the ebooks in that lbirary can be transfered to other devices--it does not give a definitive list of those devices, it only names a sample.  So from this statement, I would claim that any ebook we purchase from B&N is ours for our natural lifetimes and that we have B&N  permission to transfer those ebooks to "the widest variety of mobile devices. .. "  So if B&N goes under, and my Nook failed, I would personally have no qualms about transfering those ebooks to another mobile device--even if it required breaking the drm. 

 

I know many people would disagree, and probably will--but that's why this is a forum and not a blog. :-)

 

Reader 2
Willbook
Posts: 5
Registered: ‎10-23-2009
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Re: Barnes & Noble May Sell Company

What do think will happen if B&N is bought out by another company selling e-books and e-book readers? Where will that leave the current owners of Nooks? I hope this does not void the product for the future or cause purchased e-books to somehow "disappear" from the Nook.