Book and e-book pricing

[nlstein]

I don't cut my nose off to spite my face (I justify things sometimes when it comes to spending my money on thngs that I want to work) but whether I agree on who you chose to not buy from or not - good for you for DOING something.

Now - point your anger at the eBook people - please.

[Ya_Ya]

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nlstein wrote:

Now - point your anger at the eBook people - please.

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But why?  I find nothing wrong with the publisher saying - "You're no longer the seller. I am the seller through your storefront, and you'll get a commission."  The publishers ought to be allowed to say that, IMO.  

If I didn't like it, I'd quit buying books.  Not just ebooks, but all of their product.  I believe in putting my money where my mouth is.  But it doesn't bother particularly me.  

Would I be happier if everything were free?  Of course.  Do I like that prices went up?  Not really.  But I dont like the price of milk, gasoline or chocolate, either.  And I still drive a car and make cocoa.

[Having principles doesn't equal cutting off my nose to spite my face.]

[mykoffee]

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nlstein wrote:

Now the lemmings (the buyers of eBooks) are happy to go along with what just might be collusion (there is a lawsuit pending and remember, Apple doesn't win every lawsuit). Let's see how this all shakes out.

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Seriously?  Yeah, everyone was thrilled when the prices went up,  you should have heard the cheering going on!  Par-tay!

[nlstein]

Well,well.

[KingAl]

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Ya_Ya wrote:

I know Amazon said that ebooks would be $9.99 and B&N said "most ebooks $9.99 or less" (which is actually still true, if I remember a recent post by Doug where he broke down B&N's shop for us) but as far as I know, B&N never promised that they would remain that way.  

[Edited:  I would like to see some proof that B&N promised prices would never go up.]

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Actually, Amazon said "$9.99 unless otherwise marked." (I've recently seen a cached version of Amazon's web page pre-Agency Model.)

[nlstein]

Never is a very long time. I don't think anyone expected forever nor did anyone promise forever. The point is we were all promised soemthing that changed when a new player arrived. Amazon and B&N plus others changed the rules of the game after the game started and I for one feel cheated. You may disagree and even want "proof" but that's my memory of the way things went and I think most people here will agree. If not, I stand alone.

[apetit]

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nlstein wrote:
 The point is we were all promised soemthing that changed when a new player arrived.

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Welcome to the world of free market competition.

[deemure]

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Ya_Ya wrote:

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Whtwolf wrote:

When a library buys a paper book it expected to be lent out about 10 times and then it will need to be replaced, 

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Multiply that 10 by at least 20 and you'll be closer.

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I used to work in a library and books are used as long as possible. They can even be re-bound. If any borrower causes significant damage, they can also charge them for this. They can also sell off extra, unneeded copies. Often they buy multiples for new releases. When demand falls off, they sell most extras to make shelf room. Libraries are now having to purchase licenses for ebooks and publishers want to severely limit the number of times ebooks can be lent. But, this is so shortsighted. Libraries create readers. Readers will buy books. As I said, I worked in one. I borrowed all the time, but I bought more, and I bought some that I had borrowed. Libraries are also just good for the community and very important. Having known and worked with some excellent Librarians, I came to realize much knowledge is actually stored within their heads.

[nlstein]

Some books in my library are over one hundred years old and still very readable. They've been read by many people, many times. Books can go on for a very long life if treated well. eBooks can go on forever.

Reading is education and education is the solution to everything - including intolerance and hate for others. NEVER stop reading. It doesn't mater what format you choose - READ!

[Omnigeek]

Doug had a very nice thread here to explain the economics of publishing books and ebooks.  Thanks for dropping the SNR down 20 dB by reiterating all the conspiracy theories and whines that you had on the OTHER two threads regarding ebook pricing.

[nlstein]

You're more than welcome. I aim to please and not upset sensitive people. I still think we've been had but time will tell is history repeats itself like it always does.

[LEChakan]

Agreed.  Price fixing is a serious issue.

So is greed.

I see tons of people being let go from their jobs, as publishers downsize their staff, and booksellers with a physical presence become extinct. 

The production costs for ebooks is minimal, nothing approaching the steep costs involved with their 3-D cousins.  In time, publishers' print runs will be nominal.  When that time comes, they will have fewer vendors, staffers, and accounts payable to deal with.  With that new model, publishers costs will be reduced and they will eventually pull in more money than under the current paradigm.

My family and I now have well over 400 ebooks on our Nooks, probably more than 2/3 of them were purchased at an average of $10 per.  The remainder were either free or nominally priced.  We love books in all shapes, sizes and formats.  We're serious readers and we're willing to spend money on books because books hold value for us.

However, we're not willing to be gouged.  More than $10 for an ebook, while staffers are being laid off and publishing costs are dropping?  

No thanks.  I'll wait until those books appear at the library.

[LarryOnLI]

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LEChakan wrote:

Agreed.  Price fixing is a serious issue.

So is greed.

I see tons of people being let go from their jobs, as publishers downsize their staff, and booksellers with a physical presence become extinct. 

The production costs for ebooks is minimal, nothing approaching the steep costs involved with their 3-D cousins.  In time, publishers' print runs will be nominal.  When that time comes, they will have fewer vendors, staffers, and accounts payable to deal with.  With that new model, publishers costs will be reduced and they will eventually pull in more money than under the current paradigm.

My family and I now have well over 400 ebooks on our Nooks, probably more than 2/3 of them were purchased at an average of $10 per.  The remainder were either free or nominally priced.  We love books in all shapes, sizes and formats.  We're serious readers and we're willing to spend money on books because books hold value for us.

However, we're not willing to be gouged.  More than $10 for an ebook, while staffers are being laid off and publishing costs are dropping?  

No thanks.  I'll wait until those books appear at the library.

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When publishers no longer print physical books, some of their costs (variable not fixed) will be eliminated.

However making print runs smaller will tend to increase printing costs on a per book basis, not reduce them.

As someone who works in the publishing industry (newspaper not books) I can tell you that much of the time and cost of a print run is in the setup, not in the cost of materials (which for even a large novel would be less than $1 each).

So if it costs $10,000 to setup for a print run, and then $1 per book printed in materials, then printing 10,000 copies would result in a cost of  $2 per book. Printing only 1,000 copies would end up costing $11 per each book produced.

[keriflur]

The publishers I've heard speak on this issue do not currently believe there will be a time in the forseeable future when they will not print physical books.

[nlstein]

Let's all hope real hard cover books are printed for a very long time.

[keriflur]

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nlstein wrote:

Let's all hope real hard cover books are printed for a very long time.

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That's what they're expecting.  They're pretty much all saying (and I'm paraphrasing), "Yes, ebooks are becoming a much larger section of the market, and we need to learn to adjust to that, but physical books aren't going to go away.  We will always see a demand for them."

[Scott-Michael]

apetit wrote:

With physical books the format is the content and copying is, in a sense, of less value.  Therefore, giving a physical book away does not greatly affect the publisher.

With ebooks, if you have the ability to unlock the content you can copy and distribute it without limits.  In this case, giving an ebook away can have a much larger effect on the publisher's bottom line.

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I can buy a $15 physical book and then donate it to a library, where say 2000 people read it for free. Didn't the publisher, author and brick-n-mortar store lose revenue?

I look at it in a different way. When you price people out of the e-book industry, you encourage piracy.

Here is something to think about. What does a gallon of milk cost you, $4? If you walked into your local supermarket and in place of physical milk containers there were pay-for-view video screens, would you pay $4 to watch a video of someone drinking a glass of milk?

Physical books are going the way of newspapers. The publisher, and more importantly the author, should have embraced the technology instead of trying to hold onto a dying medium.

[Scott-Michael]

apetit wrote:

Welcome to the world of free market competition.

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If everyone is charging the same price there is no competition, which is the reason for the class action lawsuit and the EU & DOJ looking into it.

[Scott-Michael]

LEChakan wrote:

However, we're not willing to be gouged.  More than $10 for an ebook, while staffers are being laid off and publishing costs are dropping?  

No thanks.  I'll wait until those books appear at the library.

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Gouging would be the right word to use. $15.99 for a digital book is outrageous and there is no excuse for it. I think $10 is a bit high too. I am no tightwad, but I don't buy anything that is over $5.99-$6.99. Just does not make sense. I'd rather go to Walmart and pay $7.99-$9.99 for a paperback. Can't help but feel I'd be shortchanged if I paid paperback prices [or more] for an e-book.

[bklvr896]

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Scott-Michael wrote:

apetit wrote:

With physical books the format is the content and copying is, in a sense, of less value.  Therefore, giving a physical book away does not greatly affect the publisher.

With ebooks, if you have the ability to unlock the content you can copy and distribute it without limits.  In this case, giving an ebook away can have a much larger effect on the publisher's bottom line.

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I can buy a $15 physical book and then donate it to a library, where say 2000 people read it for free. Didn't the publisher, author and brick-n-mortar store lose revenue?

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However, one of the points is, there's no way 2000 people can read one physical book, it would simply fall apart and be unreadable long before that number of people.  I'd be surprised if a lot of books make it through 150 people and paperbacks even less.  On the other hand, the eBook never wears out, your 2000 people could read that book.  10,000 people could read it.  That's one of the issues they have to work out, is that if you give it to the library, or you can give it away, it will never wear out.  You give it to friend A, who gives it to friend B, who gives it to friend C who gives it to stranger A from a lending website, who gives it to stranger B from a lending website and on and on.  There's already lending sites out there even with the one time lending limit, in my mind the lending option was intended for you to be able to lend it to friends, not via a website.

I too would like to be able to donate my eBooks to the library, but I understand the concern, if I donate it, the library never has buy another copy to replace mine because it will never wear out.  How do they overcome that.