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FrogAlum
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Digital piracy hits the e-book industry - CNN Article

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sub_rosa
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Re: Digital piracy hits the e-book industry - CNN Article

Thanks for the link, Frog - I hadn't seen that either.  Stealing is wrong, and people shouldn't do it.  If it is that widespread, then the FBI or Secret Service or whatever law enforcement agency is responsible should be tracking down the thieves and punishing them under the law.  DRM doesn't stop this type of thievery and that's been proven over and over again.

 

I found this passage interesting:

 


QUOTE:

 

However, some evidence suggests that authors' and publishers' claims of damage from illegal piracy may be overstated.

 

Recent statistics have shown that consumers who purchase an e-reader buy more books than those who stick with traditional bound volumes. Amazon reports that Kindle owners buy, on average, 3.1 times as many books on the site as other customers.


 

Maybe someone should show this statistic to J.K. Rowling since she's so afraid of eBooks.

 


Don't buy from Random House, Macmillan, or Penguin until the agency model is COMPLETELY dead.
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mykoffee
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Re: Digital piracy hits the e-book industry - CNN Article

sub_rosa wrote:

Thanks for the link, Frog - I hadn't seen that either.  Stealing is wrong, and people shouldn't do it.  If it is that widespread, then the FBI or Secret Service or whatever law enforcement agency is responsible should be tracking down the thieves and punishing them under the law.  DRM doesn't stop this type of thievery and that's been proven over and over again.

 

I found this passage interesting:

 


QUOTE:

 

However, some evidence suggests that authors' and publishers' claims of damage from illegal piracy may be overstated.

 

Recent statistics have shown that consumers who purchase an e-reader buy more books than those who stick with traditional bound volumes. Amazon reports that Kindle owners buy, on average, 3.1 times as many books on the site as other customers.


 

Maybe someone should show this statistic to J.K. Rowling since she's so afraid of eBooks.

 

 

I believe this,  in the few weeks I've had my nook I've purchased more books for it than I have in the past 3 months when I was buying only print.   I've even purchased duplicates of books I already had in print, those that I like to reread often and wanted to have available wherever I go. 

 

Linda

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Ed_Mart
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Re: Digital piracy hits the e-book industry - CNN Article

 

mykoffee wrote:

 

I believe this,  in the few weeks I've had my nook I've purchased more books for it than I have in the past 3 months when I was buying only print.   I've even purchased duplicates of books I already had in print, those that I like to reread often and wanted to have available wherever I go. 

 

Linda

 

 

How true.  In the two months I've owned my nook I've purchased and read more books than I have in the last year.  Usually I would only purchase a new release from a favorite author, but B&N's free book offers have led me to new authors and series that I normally would have ignored.  And like Linda there are books I have in print format that I would like on my nook and when I find them - if the price is right - I buy them.

AlanNJ
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Re: Digital piracy hits the e-book industry - CNN Article

J.K. Rowling has a "desire to see readers experience her books in print?  If not for fear of privacy, why?  You use just as many reading skills and imagination using an e-reader as with a paper book.

Why can't these authors just say what they mean?

►Without order there is chaos◄
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eDigest
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Re: Digital piracy hits the e-book industry - CNN Article

[ Edited ]

Interesting article.  Thanks for sharing.

 

It was a bit surprising that DRM was not discussed, even in passing.  A link in the article did lead to this "A to Z" guide.

 

A few random thoughts:

 

There was no follow-up support to the blurb about piracy reports possibly being overblown.  Sloppy journalism.  :smileytongue:

 

The one figure supplied (100,000 copies of Dan Brown's "The Lost Symbol") means Dan Brown lost perhaps $250,000 to theft.  Which brings me to my favorite topic.  :smileyvery-happy:

 

For those who insist DRM should just go away, should Dan Brown just suck it up?  Should authors and publishers shoulder the entire cost of theft in a DRM-free world?

 

One thought struck me about the obligatory comment that DRM never worked:  if there was no DRM, is it possible that loss of sales to piracy would be greater than it is now?

 

I'm just tossing this out for discussion.  Don't intend to step on any toes ... :smileysurprised:

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dynalmadman
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Re: Digital piracy hits the e-book industry - CNN Article

 

eDigest wrote:
The one figure supplied (100,000 copies of Dan Brown's "The Lost Symbol") means Dan Brown lost perhaps $250,000 to theft.

And how much did Dan Brown lose because people that bought the DTB passed it around to others to read?  Perhaps we should initialte some kind of retinal scanner that only allows the person that bought the DTB to be able to read it.

 

Michael

 

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eDigest
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Re: Digital piracy hits the e-book industry - CNN Article

 

dynalmadman wrote:

 

And how much did Dan Brown lose because people that bought the DTB passed it around to others to read?  Perhaps we should initialte some kind of retinal scanner that only allows the person that bought the DTB to be able to read it.

 

DTB?  I guess you mean Dead Tree Book:smileyhappy:

 

 

I'm at a loss as to your point.  Are you saying since DTBs can be loaned it is then also okay to steal them?  After all, the loss mentioned was to stealing, not lending.

 

As has been discussed many, many, many times lending may be an antidote to some piracy and those (such as myself) who are publicly supportive of DRM have stated more than once that lending rules should be loosened up. 

 

But lending is hardly the same thing as stealing, which you seem to imply.

 

<soapbox>

I think that the topic as opened for discussion by FrogAlum is good and deserves a civil airing.  I would also like to reiterate a point FrogAlum made in another post:  Try to keep it civil if you happen to disagree with someone.  Snippy comments about retinal scanners don't lend anything to the discussion.

</soapbox>

 

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sub_rosa
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Re: Digital piracy hits the e-book industry - CNN Article

 

eDigest wrote:

There was no follow-up support to the blurb about piracy reports possibly being overblown.  Sloppy journalism.  :smileytongue:

 

The one figure supplied (100,000 copies of Dan Brown's "The Lost Symbol") means Dan Brown lost perhaps $250,000 to theft.  Which brings me to my favorite topic.  :smileyvery-happy:

I was also disappointed with the lack of follow-up regarding the 100,000 figure on alleged downloads of Dan Brown's "The Lost Symbol."  Where'd they get that figure?  I have no idea.

 

But before I go crying big weepy tears for millionaires like Dan Brown, J.K. Rowling, and Stephen King, I want to answer eD's question directly - becuase it is important.  The owners of the copyrighted work have to factor in thievery as a cost of doing business.  Digital piracy is incredibly easy, so they need to take whatever steps necessary to reduce the impulse to steal.  Reasonable prices and other incentives may be used to lure those buyers who are on the fence to buy rather than investigate the possibility of stealing.  However, there is a subset of the market that will steal no matter what the price or what DRM scheme is used.  The only way to keep them from stealing is to keep the product off the market.  Honest consumers should not suffer for their sins.

 

The nice lady from Harper Collins seems to get it:

 


QUOTE:

 

Ana Maria Allessi, publisher for Harper Media at HarperCollins, told CNN, "we have to be vigilant in our punishment ... but much more attractive is to simply make the technology better, legally."

 

E-book technology offers so many positives for both the author and the consumer that any revenue lost to piracy may just be a necessary evil, she said.

 

"Consumers who invest in one of these dedicated e-book readers tend to load it up and read more," said Allessi. "And what's wrong with that?"


 


Don't buy from Random House, Macmillan, or Penguin until the agency model is COMPLETELY dead.
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Owsley
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Re: Digital piracy hits the e-book industry - CNN Article

There's no way Dan Brown is personally earning $25 for book sold, anyways.

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sub_rosa
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Re: Digital piracy hits the e-book industry - CNN Article

eDigest wrote:

 

DTB?  I guess you mean Dead Tree Book:smileyhappy:

 

 

I'm at a loss as to your point.  Are you saying since DTBs can be loaned it is then also okay to steal them?  After all, the loss mentioned was to stealing, not lending.

 

I think the analogy Dynal was making is - if I buy a book and read it and then lend it (or give it) to a friend to read, then Dan Brown has lost a sale, right?  The lending/giving process could go on and on indefinitely resulting in hundreds of lost sales.  This reality is possible with all sorts of formats (dead tree books, audio books, ebooks).  It's not as culpable as stealing, obviously, but it does diminish sales for the author.  This has been going on for hundreds of years yet authors make money and people enjoy reading - publishers keep on publishing.  So the dire consequences that many have suggested, I think, are overstated.

 


Don't buy from Random House, Macmillan, or Penguin until the agency model is COMPLETELY dead.
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eDigest
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Re: Digital piracy hits the e-book industry - CNN Article

Okay, I have stuff to do (tm) so I have to get off the forums.  But I did want to repond to a salient point in sub_rosa's post.

 

It is (sad but) true that most producers and resellers factor pilferage into their pricing calculation. eBooks are no different and the Ana Maria Allessi's point that "E-book technology offers so many positives for both the author and the consumer that any revenue lost to piracy may just be a necessary evil."

 

But ...

sub_rosa wrote:

Honest consumers should not suffer for their sins.

I wholeheartedly agree with this.

 

The problem is, we all suffer for their sins -- in the form of higher prices. Elsewhere in the forums somebody made the point that the looser-DRM itunes are priced 30% higher than the DRMd itunes. That 30% is the cost honest people pay for dishonest people. :smileymad:

 

P.S. OMG! Did sub_rosa and I just agree on something?!?

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sub_rosa
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Re: Digital piracy hits the e-book industry - CNN Article

Owsley wrote:

There's no way Dan Brown is personally earning $25 for book sold, anyways.

 

Sloppy journalism.

 


Don't buy from Random House, Macmillan, or Penguin until the agency model is COMPLETELY dead.
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eDigest
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Re: Digital piracy hits the e-book industry - CNN Article

 

Owsley wrote:

There's no way Dan Brown is personally earning $25 for book sold, anyways.

 

 

100,000 x $2.50 = $250,000.

 

 

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sub_rosa
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Re: Digital piracy hits the e-book industry - CNN Article

eDigest wrote:

P.S. OMG! Did sub_rosa and I just agree on something?!?

 

(high-five) Sorry about the "sloppy journalism" quip - old habits, ya know...

Don't buy from Random House, Macmillan, or Penguin until the agency model is COMPLETELY dead.
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sub_rosa
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Re: Digital piracy hits the e-book industry - CNN Article

 

eDigest wrote:

 

 

100,000 x $2.50 = $250,000.

 

 

Touche'!  eD is definitely better at math than me and Owsley!

 


Don't buy from Random House, Macmillan, or Penguin until the agency model is COMPLETELY dead.
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JohnP51
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Re: Digital piracy hits the e-book industry - CNN Article

I always get a chuckle when pirates express indignation when their efforts are thwarted. I also find it funny when a pirate thinks its okay for an author/publisher to lose a sale due to piracy but would come unglued it his employer shorted him on his own paycheck. Its pure selfishness on the pirate's part.

 

Doing the right thing means doing it even if no one is looking.

John

"Books are for people who wish they were somewhere else." ~ Mark Twain
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Ed_Mart
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Re: Digital piracy hits the e-book industry - CNN Article

[ Edited ]

Piracy is theft, no doubt about it.  The author and the publisher should be compensated for their work and product, yet theft exists. 

 

J. K. Rowling and Scholastic Press do not offer the Harry Potter series in ebook format yet there are copies in electronic format out there available for download.  These copies were made by scanning the actual books into pdf's or other file formats.  How many sales of the HP series have been lost to these piracy attempts? I would venture to say many more than the 100k guestimate lost to Dan Brown.  Yet we continue to treat the ebook as if it is culpable in it's own theft.

 

It is not the format that matters, it's the thief.

 

FWIW:  Even though I own hardcover copies of all the Harry Potter books I would buy the ebook series if it were available just to have it on my nook.  I'm sure there are many of others of a like mind, Ms. Rowling and Scholastic Press should consider how many lost sales they have because of their failure to publish in ebook format.

AlanNJ
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Re: Digital piracy hits the e-book industry - CNN Article

According to the article it sounds like Ms. Rowling is more concerned with the changing technology than the theft problem.  She wants to maintain the act of turning a page to read.  Personally I can't comprehend this logic and think that Ms. Rowling is being extremely condescending and, quite honestly, overly impressed with herself and her influence.

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sub_rosa
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Re: Digital piracy hits the e-book industry - CNN Article


QUOTE:

 

Dan Brown’s latest historical/conspiratorial/symbological mystery had a stellar first day, selling more than one million copies in the U.S., Canada, and the U.K. Amazon and Barnes & Noble reported that The Lost Symbol broke their records for first-day sales of an adult fiction book. “Adult,” in this case, being shorthand for “not Harry Potter.”

 

The e-book edition also posted big sales, and is currently the top seller for the Amazon Kindle.

Suzanne Herz of Knopf Doubleday says that this kind of fervent response was absolutely what the publisher expected. “There is no comparison,” she said, between The Lost Symbol’s success and the early sales of Brown’s other novels. Anticipating massive demand, the publisher had to go back to press immediately prior to release in order to print an additional 600,000 copies (bringing the total number to 5.6 million).


 

http://shelf-life.ew.com/2009/09/16/dan-browns-latest-breaks-first-day-records/

 

Has anyone here said it's OK to steal?  If so, I must have missed it.

 

However, if someone were to say to me - in one day, you will make $2.5 million on a book you wrote, but you'll lose $250,000 to pirates.  My response would be, where do I sign up?

 


Don't buy from Random House, Macmillan, or Penguin until the agency model is COMPLETELY dead.