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Frequent Contributor
MikeNC
Posts: 408
Registered: ‎05-27-2011
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Re: HUGE SALE - but not for Nook customers.

According to the latest Pew survey, only about 12% of US households own an ereader.  it's still very much a minority market, not a mass market appeal area.  The masses still buy DTBs predominantly (those who read much at all).  I did not see any demographic breakdowns there, but I'd bet that most of those households are also well above the median national income (which is somewhere just north of $50-$51K).

 

Pew also says only about 8% of households have tablet computers (the iPad being the most common).  If you watch any major news network or read tech news and blogs, you'd think the things were as common as toilet paper these days.  But again, they are still very much a niche market.

 

Publishers can charge high prices for ebooks, because those buying them generally do not hesitate over the price.  It's the same for tablets and ereader devices.  As the market grows, competition and volume sales will see prices go down.  But for now, those forces just aren't there to anywhere near the same affect as with DTBs.  B&N puts a popular paperback or hardcover on sale and maybe moves tens of thousands of copies nationwide.  If the price of a popular ebook drops, they maybe sell a couple of thousand more.  And there's no black ink recovery from moving ebooks - the server costs are still pretty much the same whether you sell 100 or 100,000.  Move a warehouse full of DTBs and you can drop that leased inventory space or put something else in there that is moving well.

Nallia
Posts: 4,758
Topics: 125
Kudos: 3,238
Registered: ‎02-15-2010

Re: HUGE SALE - but not for Nook customers.

No one here is angry.  You are insisting that a change can be made by a specific company when it can't be done that way.  What you don't get is that many of us agree with you that the prices are too high, in many cases, but also understand that B&N, Amazon, Kobo, Sony, et al., only have a limited amount of power to do anything about it.  That doesn't mean that we don't care or don't think anything should be done.  It simply means that the changes must come from the publishers who hold the rights to the ebooks and their prices--both the prices those who are part of the Agency Model choose to charge directly to the consumers and the prices those publishers who have ot joined the Agency Model choose to charge the sellers before they can be sold.

 

Again, how is B&N (or Amazon or any other ebook seller) to accomplish this lowering of ebook prices that they do not have the legal right to change?  How are they to get past the publisher?

Distinguished Bibliophile
keriflur
Posts: 6,836
Registered: ‎01-05-2010

Re: HUGE SALE - but not for Nook customers.

[ Edited ]

RSC_Nook wrote:

ok, this is where I am 100% confused.

 

I have picked up bits and pieces about this on this board but never fully followed the concept of the agency model.

 

doesn't the agency model not allow B&N (or amazon or anyone else) to just set prices however they want, including below a certain level?

 

I THOUGHT Amazon (at least for some or most books) can't just decide to sell a popular title for $0.99 just to get people to gravitate towards the kindle.




This is correct.  If a publisher is following the agency model, not only do they set the price for the book, they sell it.  If you look at an agency model title on B&N you'll see that the seller is NOT B&N, it's the publisher.  B&N is simply acting as a distributor for the ebook.  Since B&N is not even actually selling the book, they have absolutely no control over prices, or the ability to allow buyers to use coupons or discounts.  The same agency title will sell for the same price at Amazon, Kobo, Sony, B&N or Apple (or any other distributor in the US) because that's the price the publisher is selling for.

 

To the OP -

If you have a problem with the agency model you'll need to take it up with the publishers.  B&N didn't ask for this.  Kobo made it clear they didn't want it. (They had a massive sale the week before the model went into effect and gave $2 off EVERY TITLE.  It was awesome.)  Amazon tried to force the publishers to back down from it by refusing to carry their books.  In the end, the publishers won, so you'll need to to talk to them.

 

Or better yet, take it up with Steve Jobs.  This whole mess was his idea.

Distinguished Scribe
RSC_Nook
Posts: 758
Registered: ‎01-04-2011

Re: HUGE SALE - but not for Nook customers.


MAVP wrote:

Clearly, I've stumbled into the middle of a B&N cult of some kind. I'm sitting here shocked at how angry and defensive people became from my original post. Rather disturbing, actually.



I have replied twice, both time with fairly reasonable and nice replies.  I was simply making a counter point and also trying to chat about how the agency model may not allow this to occur.

 

ALSO many others have reponded in DETAIL as well.  many many others. 

 

perhaps a few snippy remarks were made as well, that is up to you to decide.  regardless as I review the responses where folks took a LOT of time to stop and reply to you IMO far outweighs the angry and defensive comments.  perhaps if you have the time to recogonize you felt a few people were snippy, it would be nice to acknowledge in turn others were not.

 

multiple multiple times people said they AGREED with you, they would love lower prices as well, but then explained perhaps the reasons behind some of the pricing.

 

finally, again (for the third time) how can any DTB pricing ever beat free books?  if someone is really really thrifty for whatever reason (income level or otherwise) I could argue one could ready plenty of GOOD free books on their ereader.  again, I have over 80 GOOD ones for just about $25 spent in 6 + months

Contributor
MAVP
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎06-14-2011
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Re: HUGE SALE - but not for Nook customers.

Nobody asked you to reply to my "rant."

 

Why are you STILL responding to something you find so annoying?

When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives.
Nallia
Posts: 4,758
Topics: 125
Kudos: 3,238
Registered: ‎02-15-2010
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Distinguished Scribe
RSC_Nook
Posts: 758
Registered: ‎01-04-2011

Re: HUGE SALE - but not for Nook customers.

[ Edited ]

MAVP wrote:

Nobody asked you to reply to my "rant."

 

Why are you STILL responding to something you find so annoying?



Nobody asked me to reply?  By posting something on a PUBLIC forum in essence you asked for a reply.  

 

And where did I say I found it annoying?  I never did.  I don't find it annoying at all.   please do not put words in my mouth.

 

I tried to point out to you that you can find free books, and I was also trying to help answer your question about the agency model.

 

I was just trying to help you out...  wow. 

Contributor
MAVP
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎06-14-2011
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Re: HUGE SALE - but not for Nook customers.

By placing a post I've asked for a reply, yes, from those who care to make a reply. Implied, I think, is the idea that if my original post annoyed you, then you're not required to respond. (and it might be better if you didn't)

 

You said that you'd be happier without my "rant." I'm freely assuming that happiness is the absence of annoyance.

 

I simply made a point that Henry Ford found solutions to the barriers that confronted him, and in doing so, made the car available to the working class. I'm hoping that B&N will do the same. Ther MUST be a solution. Someone will find it. I hope it's B&N. That is all I said. Then, the cult came out of the woodwork.

When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives.
Doug_Pardee
Posts: 5,522
Kudos: 4,015
Registered: ‎03-09-2010

Re: HUGE SALE - but not for Nook customers.


MAVP wrote:

 

IF B&N's e-book division wants this medium to work long-term

I think this might be where you're getting off-track.

 

B&N doesn't care if you buy hardcover, trade paperback, mass-market paperback, large print, audio, or e-book — as long as you buy it from B&N. They have an e-book operation in order to offer e-books to those people who prefer e-books. The alternative is: well, look at Borders.

 

All things considered, B&N would probably rather that people move slowly to e-books, because they have over 700 large and expensive bookstores around the country (plus almost another 700 college bookstores). But they're not in control of the matter — the public is moving to e-books, and B&N knows that it must adapt.

 

The same goes for the big publishers. They don't care what format you buy their books in, as long as you buy their books. They, too, would probably rather that people move slowly to e-books, because they have a rather large investment in the infrastructure for printing and distributing paper books. They, too, are not in control of the matter — the public is moving to e-books, and the big publishers know that they must adapt.

 

Those big publishers control the prices of their e-books. They don't allow any bookstore to sell their e-books at a discount. If the publisher says the e-book is $14.99, then it has to be sold for at least $14.99. Nobody — not Amazon, not B&N, not Apple, not Kobo, not Google, not Sony, not one of the independent e-book retailers — has any control over the e-book prices from the major publishers. The big publishers say "take it or leave it": either sell for that price or don't sell at all.

 

If you, or anyone else, prefer to buy a clearance printed book at B&N rather than a B&N NOOKbook, B&N's probably just fine with that. They need to sell those clearance books. Again, they don't care which format you buy, as long as you buy from B&N.

 

By the way, I'm just fine with it, too. It's none of my business what format you buy, and I don't even care if you buy it at B&N or not.

 

Distinguished Bibliophile
keriflur
Posts: 6,836
Registered: ‎01-05-2010

Re: HUGE SALE - but not for Nook customers.

Sounds like MAVP is trolling for anger and not getting enough from us.  LOL.

 

I get that you might be the new kid on the block when it comes to ebook pricing, but a lot of us are familiar with how it's done and have done our fair share of shopping around.  All we're saying is - direct your anger in the right place.  You're shooting the messenger here, not the source of your anger.

 

You can blame B&N all you want.  Then, when you're done, you can go blame Kobo, then Sony and then Amazon.  Let me know when you get around to blaming Apple, where some of the blame actually lies.  After screaming into the wind at all those companies, maybe, if you have any voice left in you, you can take your complaints to someone who can actually do something about the pricing - the publisher (as we've all told you, over and over.)

Distinguished Bibliophile
keriflur
Posts: 6,836
Registered: ‎01-05-2010

Re: HUGE SALE - but not for Nook customers.

[ Edited ]

MAVP wrote:
I simply made a point that Henry Ford found solutions to the barriers that confronted him, and in doing so, made the car available to the working class. I'm hoping that B&N will do the same. Ther MUST be a solution. Someone will find it.

Okay, first of all, Henry Ford didn't decide to make the car available because someone screamed at him on a message board.

 

Second, BE the change you want to see in the world.  If you think there is a better way, look into the current pricing structure.  Learn the facts.  Learn the costs.  And come up with a better way.  Henry Ford was just one guy.  Why wait for "someone" to find a better way?  Don't evangelize Henry Ford, BE him.

Nallia
Posts: 4,758
Topics: 125
Kudos: 3,238
Registered: ‎02-15-2010

Re: HUGE SALE - but not for Nook customers.

Interesting.  I had no idea that people who would rather discuss facts and possible viable solutions to the issue than be disparaged were cultists.

Distinguished Scribe
RSC_Nook
Posts: 758
Registered: ‎01-04-2011
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Re: HUGE SALE - but not for Nook customers.


MAVP wrote:

You said that you'd be happier without my "rant." I'm freely assuming that happiness is the absence of annoyance.

 



I never said any such thing.  perhaps someone else did and when you replied directly after me above I assumed you were speaking to me.  regardless I never said any such thing.  I can;t find anyone else that did either but I will admit I scanned all the posts quickly.

Distinguished Bibliophile
keriflur
Posts: 6,836
Registered: ‎01-05-2010
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Re: HUGE SALE - but not for Nook customers.


Nallia wrote:

Interesting.  I had no idea that people who would rather discuss facts and possible viable solutions to the issue than be disparaged were cultists.


Apparently it's the cult of rational thought and reasonable solutions. :smileywink:

Inspired Wordsmith
sirwillard
Posts: 496
Registered: ‎06-10-2010

Re: HUGE SALE - but not for Nook customers.

No one's angry. I'm a little annoyed, just because this topic is brought up every other post, and nothing new is ever said. You've got a bit of a point that I could just ignore the post, but despite being a bit annoyed, I thought it was still a good idea to try and provide you with some information. However, you're not listening to what people are saying. You're too busy looking for conspiracy theories or assuming people are angry for some reason.

 

I have sympathy for your opinion that eBooks are too expensive, even if I don't agree with you. Even though I'm a bit annoyed by yet another rant on this topic, I'm not angry that you posted and even understand why you did. However, it's still very valid to point out that, even if it makes you feel better, ranting on here doesn't help. This is a user community. We can't do anything about this directly. You could argue that it's still a B&N board, so there's some chance that B&N will read this post, but even then, B&N is helpless to do anything about it as well. If you want to rant, rant to the publisher. It probably still won't do any good, but at least it has some chance to make a difference. If you want to take an action that has a better chance of making a difference, buy the paperback. It really is that simple, though even that action isn't going to have an immediate effect, if it ever has an effect (it will take more than you to make a difference here, and right now it looks like the existing market is more than willing to pay the asking price).

Check out my books on Goodreads: http://www.goodreads.com/profile/wekempf
Correspondent
kivvie
Posts: 160
Registered: ‎04-22-2010
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Re: HUGE SALE - but not for Nook customers.

I hate to add fuel to the fire, but prices reflect what the market will bear.

 

I can go to WalMart and buy a plain, white tshirt for $6. I can go to GAP and buy one for $25. I can go to some other retailer and buy one for $75. I could also purchase a 3 pack from Hanes for about $8.The product is a simple, plain, white tshirt. There are stores who make good money selling $75 tshirts. That doesn't mean I personally shop there. I can't walk in and say "it is only worth 5 dollars, plunk down a 5 dollar bill and walk out." However, if I am patient and wait for the closeout sale, I can go to GAP and get that tshirt for $6 -- assuming they still have the one I want in the size I want.

 

There are PLENTY of books out there. If you want a book for a dollar, you can get one. Is it the particular one you want? There is the rub! With ebooks, the problem of supply and demand is basically eliminated. It costs the same amount of money (within reason) to make 1 copy of an ebook as it does 100,000. It doesn't cost the publisher much money to store the 99,999 other copies of a book since computer storage is cheap compared to warehouse space.

 

Publishers and authors set a price they feel is supported by the market. If a product doesn't sell, they lower the price, remarket it, etc. However, the need to reduce product on the shelves by offering closeout sales doesn't happen with ebooks -- the product doesn't take up space, doesn't spoil, doesn't even really go "out of style."

 

The economic model we, as a society, have used for all our lives no longer depends on the major factors that used to effect it once we move into the "virtual" world.

Contributor
MAVP
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎06-14-2011
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Re: HUGE SALE - but not for Nook customers.

Notice, I never disparaged users of the Nook. I simply suggested that B&N should look for a solution to the pricing problem. Somehow ... the cult found that personally disparaging. Very, disturbing.

When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives.
Contributor
MAVP
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎06-14-2011
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Re: HUGE SALE - but not for Nook customers.

How is it that by making a suggestion that B&N find a solution to the pricing problem, I am personally disparaging you?

 

THAT reaction ... is what makes you "cult-ish."

When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives.
Distinguished Bibliophile
keriflur
Posts: 6,836
Registered: ‎01-05-2010

Re: HUGE SALE - but not for Nook customers.


MAVP wrote:

How is it that by making a suggestion that B&N find a solution to the pricing problem, I am personally disparaging you?

 

THAT reaction ... is what makes you "cult-ish."


Me thinks you should go back and actually read the responses people have given you.

Distinguished Scribe
RSC_Nook
Posts: 758
Registered: ‎01-04-2011

Re: HUGE SALE - but not for Nook customers.


MAVP wrote:

Notice, I never disparaged users of the Nook. I simply suggested that B&N should look for a solution to the pricing problem. Somehow ... the cult found that personally disparaging. Very, disturbing.



actually, again, the majority of the 'cult' took a lot of time out of their day to reply to you in a very civil, respectful way to provide to you additional information and reaction. 

 

I know it helps your argument perhaps if we were all snippy and mean, but fortunately (or unfortunately?) we were not.  many were very nice. 

 

If you are going to categorize the cult it would be more appropriate to note how overall the majority were more than friendly, not the other way around.

 

we really were nice, despite how much you wish it not to be the case I recon